Sunday, June 15, 2008

Check out my package 1.0.1, it's updated!

You thought I was done with your packages. Well guess what, I just updated my package.

Guess what? you get to download the whole damn thing again. But don't worry, I actually love downloading openoffice packages over and over again just to get that one patched file. I feel like I'm getting more free stuff each time.

But forget that. Forget the fact that if you go and install Gutsy right now, you'd pull down enough in updates for another CD. I thought we were supposed to be better than Windows service packs, or something.

No, I'm pissing away my Sunday evening to bitch about your updates.

Here's how it usually goes..

Debtard: "Hey friend, you should install Linux. I'd recommend Debian stable, but since I see that you got your machine within the last ten years, I'd recommend Ubuntu. It's got this great system where it's really easy to update software."

Friend: "Sounds good. Give me a CD."

Debtard: "Here's the Ubuntu Feisty version CD. It's the latest and greatest."

The standard stuff ensues. Friend installs Ubuntu. Friend spends weekends and weekends making it work, while his wife and children leave him. Friend discovers that he can drag his desktop windows around in new ways that blow his mind. Friend realizes that he can't actually do anything he wants to with his new system, but figures it's at least good for getting high and dragging some windows around. Friend discovers that porn looks awesome when it's wrapped around the corner of a desktop cube.

Friend then updates to Gutsy. Goes through some more horseshit because something broke. Yadda yadda. A few months later...

Debtard: "Hey check it. Did you see Firefox 3 came out?"

Friend: "Sweet dude. How do I use this awesome software updating thing you told me about?"

Debtard: "Uhhh. I think you have to update to the Hardy version dude."

Friend: "Dude, what the fuck. I just got fucked by the last update. I don't want to do that shit every 6 months. Can't I just get the FF3 update?"

Debtard: "..."

Friend: "Thanks man. Really. This is some awesome shit."

Debtard: "oh. oh. yea you should google this thing called backports"

Friend reads about backports. He finds out that they're mostly tested by the "community" where "community" means less than 1% of the Ubuntu population.

Friend: "This looks like some ghetto shit. This shit doesn't even work when 100% of the community "tests" it. I don't want it."

Debtard: "Works for me dude. But, oh, you can go get firefox binaries from upstream then."

Friend: "Fuck dude. Why didn't you say that before."

... A few days later ...

Friend: "WTF, it took me hours to figure out how to install this thing. And when I run it, my fonts look like Richard Stallman's pubic hair."

Debtard: "Oh yea.... that's because it's not a real Ubuntu package so they don't use your graphics library that's patched with sketchy patent-encumbered patches. Can't do anything about that."

Friend: "I hate you, fucktard. Give me my life back."

And don't you guys fucking say that this shit is made up. I've seen it happen exactly like that.

The slightly more observant among you will now start to go off about how this is where open source shines: "Don't like what you get? then download the source and fix it yourself."

What you really mean is:

  • Download the Firefox 3 source
  • Read tons of docs on how to configure the build
  • apt-get install all the random dev shit that you need to compile it. Learn tons of names like libdick0-dev. Learn about how apt-cache search doesn't actually help you find anything.
  • Wait hours
  • make install, only to realize that you've overwritten files on your system that were owned by other packages and you have no way to go back.
Freedom baby! Sounds orgasmic. I just jizzed my pants thinking about it.

How bout this, I got another option for y'all: ungzip my pants and suck my tarballs. Don't worry, you can do that for free too.

76 flames:

triton said...

Seen this happen lots of times.

Anonymous said...

You should have chosen a better example than compiling firefox in a deb-based distro .

"Read tons of docs on how to configure the build"

Not really *tons* but a well-documented how to :
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Configuring_Build_Options


"apt-get install all the random dev shit that you need to compile it. Learn tons of names like libdick0-dev. Learn about how apt-cache search doesn't actually help you find anything."

Just run :
#apt-get build-dep firefox

And you're done (You don't have to figure that on your own as It is also mentioned in the Mozilla documentation) .

Why do I have to go through all that?

Because you can optimize and customize the app that you use the most .

But What If I don't want to ?

You don't have to . Desktop-oriented distros that don't look for rock-solid stability including Ubuntu (which is not the best thing Linux can offer BTW) chose to include beta versions of FF3 and those versions are going to be updated once the final release is getting out .

Nathan Novielli said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I don't know Debian/Ubuntu. But there are distros with DeltaRPMs, so you don't need to "download the whole damn thing again".

Up to where I know Fedora always updates packages to last upstream versions, so no need to update to the latest Fedora release to have the latest Firefox. openSUSE also has the Build Service with backports.
The complain about backports neither makes much sense. If someone says you a package is being tested by "the community" you dont't like it? Well, I really prefer that to don't knowing at all which tests the software has passed... "oh, yeah, my cellphone software has been tested by Sony-Ericsson!!!"
Well, a boy with a scholarship on Sony-Ericsson probably made two tests in five minutes. Because their Windows cellphone software is SHIT.
Backport packages work 99% of time, so...

Anonymous said...

"But there are distros with DeltaRPMs"

This is a really nice feature - I'm looking forward to see it in the Fedora as default service.

Anonymous said...

LOL @ Freetards

Why have simple when you can have complicated.

I dedicate this Pepsi in my hand to the religious crusaders of software, the freetards.

ensi said...

Jesus dude, your blog is simply hilarious! While all the profanity might seem a bit excessive at times it does crack me up though.

Getting more serious, you really bring up some valid points. Its sad to see all the great potential of open source development getting wasted becase of lack of coordination and discipline. In the Linux/opensource world the process is run by the developers desire to create new features and create new stuff. And there's no other person who can tell them to work on bug fixes only. No authority.
And the only way to get quality software is to simply freeze the features and go thorugh several bug fix iterations only. But this never happens and this is why things such as Gnome/KDE xorg are always in a constant beta cycle and the quality is crap.

Its very sad. Without any financial pressure or time pressure open-source development holds the keys for PERFECT software process and development. If only the community focused on this and accepted some coordination into their work.

I acknowledge pretty much 100% of your rants. I've had it myself, had to patch drivers, had broken packages, things break randomly on the slightest change, every single installation is broken in some different way out of the box and the list goes on.
What I do myself is just to do a fresh install about once every few years, get it to work and then NOT TOUCH THE SYSTEM unless I REALLY REALLY HAVE TO.

Anonymous said...

The fix to this problem is easy. Just install Gentoo - compile everything from source!

leandroribeiro said...

OMFG, this shit is an amazing read :'D

And I use Linux...

Athrun said...

openSUSE uses deltaRPMs by default so you don't get this "download-the-whole-package-just-for-one-file" behavior.
Moreover, the openSUSE buildservice contains __tons__ of backports. Hell, you can even install KDE4 on openSUSE 10.2 (released in Dec. 2006!). And if the buildservice doesn't contain the updated version of the package you want, you can build it yourself with a few clicks. It couldn't be more easier :)

Anonymous said...

Niiice post.

Though I have a better solution. Upgrading from XP to Vista. Or, wait, it gets better - to Leopard. Then your mac bricks and you're fucked! Yarr.

Anonymous said...

This one is kind of weak. While technically trueish, its really not where Linux falls on its face.

I recently installed and patched Vista to SP1. This took over 2 hours mostly due post installation patches.

Same notebook different partition, I installed Hardy. It was done an patched in 30 minutes.

I keep a MBP for app testing and that thing tries to make me use iTunes (or some other ghey mac app) every time I try to update my system.

Anonymous said...

"The fix to this problem is easy. Just install Gentoo - compile everything from source!"

LOL. Gentoo ricers are always very funny

http://web.archive.org/web/20061004200708/http://www.funroll-loops.org/

"openSUSE uses deltaRPMs by default so you don't get this "download-the-whole-package-just-for-one-file" behavior."

OpenSUSE is a very good distro, but has one flaw from my point of view - it uses AppArmor instead of SELinux.

Igor said...

So true!,

but in other OS(like OSX) is not painless, actually OSX updates are bigger(because all software in OSX is bigger)

Anonymous said...

You make a lot of sense, in a 'Forest Gump' kind of way. Stupid (read ignorant) is as stupid does.

Anonymous said...

A promising project was apt-rsync (using rsync with apt so you don't have to download the whole package(s) over and over again) . That project never saw the light and I think It's not in active development anymore .

Anonymous said...

it seems that you are caind of uneducated person. You did'nt get things with one click and now you are pissed.
Let's look about errors. Windows errors are usually very informative:some dll crashed with error 0x839503
Otherhand linux errors are little more human readable.
Educate yourself and linux does'nt seem so terrible

Fred said...

WTF are you griping about. You want to be on the bleeding edge and have the latest builds updated daily? Yea you'll suffer for it. Use Synaptic package manager and relax.

Anonymous said...

"ungzip my pants and suck my tarballs."

This should be like a quote of the day on reddit/digg! rofl

Anonymous said...

Quit kissing the guy's butt like he's clever. All the jokes about *NIX commands are old and tired, and he probably got these right from the UNIX hater's handbook (which he even admits to being inspired by).

Wow. He says something intelligent and everyone says he's clueless, then he spews crap and people think he's a genius.

Definitely freetards.

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Very funny! Loved it... just change ungzip to gunzip and we're ok.

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kyanh said...

I dont know , what made you write this post, the Hater.

I just invoke a very simple command and then wait for about 1minute to get the latest firefox. Someone built the firefox and I just use it. I may/can built somepackages for others, too. Build once, use anywhere anytime.

I cant' do similar thing using windows. If i want to build Firefox on Windows, I must get in to a damn hell.

Event if i want to use prebuild version, I must goto some webpage, download, download, click, click, save, run, setup.... TOo much stupids stuffs. Windows doesnot have package manager. So windows is really stupid:))

Linux Package manager is more intelligent than you can imagine.

Anonymous said...

OTOH, if I want a recent version of Firefox on Linux, I have two options:

a) Use an unstable distribution that keeps changing and breaking all the time. Stable distros only carry obsolete software. The Linux way of softare deployment: to update even the most insignificant program, you have to update the whole OS.

b) Build it from source, tracking down a thousand development package dependencies. Hope that that build process doesn't fail, and that I have enough disk space to build this kind of bloatware.

Having to download a package that will likely work without much trouble from a Web page, no longer sounds that bad.

Anonymous said...

"And don't you guys fucking say that this shit is made up"

I won't. Just as I won't say (I am, but hey, I can tell shit just a freely as, well, you sir) that one should stick to what one knows and shouldn't say (s)he's an expert just because (s)he has a computer for f's sake.

That doesn't mean I don't believe and know that things like you described happen. They do, and a lot. I've seen some. But in all cases I witnessed, the gurus who complained the stars down from the heavens were all self-proclaimed all-knowing users who can't make a difference between a sixpack and a rotten pighead by themselves.

And for f's sake, use what is useable for you, and don't use something that doesn't fit you then spend half or your life complaining.

And for f's sake, go get a f.ing life.

Anonymous said...

"Use an unstable distribution that keeps changing and breaking all the time. Stable distros only carry obsolete software. The Linux way of softare deployment: to update even the most insignificant program, you have to update the whole OS.

b) Build it from source, tracking down a thousand development package dependencies. Hope that that build process doesn't fail, and that I have enough disk space to build this kind of bloatware."

Geez people, you life in the f.ing past.

I hate places like this where illiterates come together and whack their whatevers in joy while finding happiness in talking nonsene and getting standing ovations from the rest of the herd.

Good for you, well, it's cheaper than getting your medications that's for sure :P

Optimus said...

I can understand this frustration. There are times I want to open a compiler and code something on my own and times I just want to run the friggin app! I hate it when I want to run something for a minute and all I am given is a source code and been asked to compile (and there are makefiles inside but guess what they never work at once without scratching my head for an hour) instead of getting the binary :P Ok this doesn't happen most of the time except when some Linux geek friend wants to show me a preview of something and he asks me to compile the code instead of providing the binary. Right at the time I want to run and watch something fancy for few minutes, not open the compiler. When I code my own projects as a programmer, then I will be in the mood to scratch my head for an hour or so.

Also, yes if there is a feature missing the nerdy Linux dude will praise the open source and say it's so clever that you can compile and solve the problem. But you (and me) don't have the time to go into this because all that you want is to run a friggin app!

But this is not necessary negative. An additional choice is given for those who are in the mood to actually hack into the source code. If you owned a commercial application and you were a crazy hacker you'd feel limited without open source. So in Linux you have one additional option and if you don't care about it you can just stick with what you have. Someone would argue that e.g. in windows what you have as a closed source is much better than in Linux but I don't know that, so in Linux you are forced to hack the app (because an important feature is missing) whether you like it or not. I don't know, I will not say anything about that..

I think Linux is for geeks who want to hack the OS and it's open source apps. I feel like I don't have the time to do this. When I install Linux I just play around but never really get into hacking bits of it or something. It is for geeks who are into that. It's for a different kind of mentality.

The only problem is the hype. When you get hyped that Linux is teh best, Linux is godlike and all about Linux, then you decide to get into. If you are a common user you might be frustrated. If you like to feel a "hacker" or a "rebel", regardless the frustration you learn how to ....irc :) and speak with leet language and thing you are a linux god or something. If you are not a regular user, but something higher like a programmer or anything, you still feel there is no time to get into Linux and you just want to do your job using some nifty apps you don't need to look at their code, you have other things to do but you still are something above a common user, you just want your job to get done. Several friends told me that I am a geek and so I should have been into Linux or something. And that it just doesn't match to be a geek, a programmer and not having Linux installed or something (well, I did and I like some of it's features but I have like 3 months to boot it because I don't need it :P :P :P)

And if there was no hype you wouldn't open such a blog :)

Anonymous said...

Mort de rire !

Anonymous said...

You guys do it the hard way.

Just download firefox from mozilla.com. No need to compile it or mess with the package manager.

Anonymous said...

"How bout this, I got another option for y'all: ungzip my pants and suck my tarballs. Don't worry, you can do that for free too."

Now thats a freakin classic shout yeah...

...dex

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