Friday, June 13, 2008

Nokia says STFU!

I'm sure all you Slashtards have seen it by now.

Nokia tells the OSS world to grow the fuck up.

Nokia says:

We want to educate open-source developers. There are certain business rules [developers] need to obey, such as DRM, IPR [intellectual property rights], SIM locks and subsidised business models.


Translation: thanks for the code guys! but your "freedom" thing makes it hard for us to actually make money. We're gonna learn you some economics ok?

The primary thing they learned after all their involvement in the Linux community?

Don't make your own version. The original mistake we made was to take the code to our labs, change it and then release it at the last minute. The community had already gone in a different direction than [us], and no-one was pushing it other than [us]. Everybody wants to make their own version and keep it too close to their chest but that leads to fragmentation.


Shiiiiet. You don't say. Open source people take code and make incompatible versions of the same thing? I would have never guessed. Can you give me some examples of that? Because I can't believe your claims without actual examples.

Good luck trying to herd these ego-driven cats, Nokia. I strongly recommend you purchase the biggest shit-shield you can find.

edit: Apparently you guys can't read. Nokia said that EVERYBODY forks the code. I don't give a shit if it's some proprietary company or some open source buffoons. The point is that _everybody_ does it because they don't know better, and _that_ sucks as a development model. Nokia is sane (and stupid?) enough to tell everyone that it doesn't work. But somehow it's ok when Ubuntu forks Debian? just cuz it's some OSS project? Please.

I guess you guys really need my help to read between the lines. Proprietary companies always come at this the same way. They look at the code. They say, "wow, there's some useful code in there, but over the past 10 releases these guys have broken something every time. We can't depend on this bullshit, so we're gonna fork it."

Eventually they come around and realize that it doesn't really work, but what other option did they have? They want the code, but they can't depend on the project managers to get their shit together. I mean why should they? Volunteer contributors to the project have no incentive to listen and or cooperate.

The final conclusion usually is that open source projects are a fucking huge pain in the ass to work with if you're trying to get anything real done as a company and you have assloads of customers who don't give a fuck how your product is built. The projects who adapt and figure out ways support and incorporate paid developers (from real businesses) are the ones that usually succeed.

edit again: I hate myself for biting. I hate you for wasting for my time. Serves me well for giving any credibility to what you Anon commenters write. Hurray for the internet. You guys are helpless. Go write code for a living and use Linux for 10 years and then come back. I might listen to you then.

Anyways, I didn't say that all forks were bad did I? But you know what? The bad forks grossly outnumber the good ones. Worse yet, each bad fork has collateral damage. It confuses the landscape needlessly, confuses users, and reduces cooperation and coordination among the already scarce developer resources. As it is, I've watched osstards fork things for so many stupid reasons that I don't trust them any more. And worse, I've seen osstards fight among each other for years and years over two or more forks of a program that all look the same to any normal user. Y'all are free to do what you want, but I'm also free to make fun of you for it.

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Eugenia said...

I personally don't mind the existence of DRM media, locked phones etc, and I certainly respect IP. However, I don't buy DRM'ed songs even if I have an iTunes account, and I don't buy locked phones. I have about 10 portable media players (as a reviewer of products for several publications I am keep send free stuff all the time), and I need phones that work with my Greek SIM as well as with my AT&T one. Therefore, as long as I have the choice of buying non-DRM media and unlocked phones, I am cool. If somehow the industry makes everything too locked and restricts the current ability, I will have a *practical* problem with it (rather than just a philosophy one). But as long as there's choice, the consumers can shape the market. If no one buys DRM media and locked phones, these companies will have to eventually loosen up. But obviously, most consumers don't care. And if consumers don't care about things being locked, companies don't care 10x either.

Ramsees said...

The customer always has the last word Eugenia, not the license, not the community but the customer. :).

Eugenia said...

Erm, where did I say otherwise?

The problem is that the "customer" doesn't CARE. If the "customer" cared, the locked phones wouldn't be the vast majority in the US. Neither iTunes would have 80% of the digital media store market share.

So yes, the customer has the last word. And the customer's last word is "whatever dude, just give it to me for cheap".

Anonymous said...

Of course the customer cares. It's just that the customer is given very few legally legitimate options, and a number of factors (marketing, prominence, trends, availability, support, etc) have shaped things. Look at the current US President. According to your reasoning, the reason Bush runs things must be because either people don't care or Bush is obviously simply the best choice. Bush holds the record for the lowest approval rating ever and is obviously nowhere near the best choice. Your reasoning, which you take to be so absolute an obvious, is demonstrably false.

Fucker T. Washington said...

Ah, goddamn Nokia and their bullshit...

By the way, I think your blog is brilliant. Some chaps over at linsux.org noticed you, and I came, and I saw.
Absolutely brilliant.

FUCK LINUX (Well, the noobs anyway).

Anonymous said...

There's another interpretation though:

"Don't make your own version. The original mistake we made was to take the code to our labs, change it and then release it at the last minute. The community had already gone in a different direction than [us], and no-one was pushing it other than [us]."

They were the ones trying to fork!

Merely "taking the code to our labs [and] chang[ing] it" constitutes a fork.

Even if "the community" hadn't moved on by that time, there's nothing stopping another company from doing the same thing, resulting in a forked code base anyway.

You can't blame "the community" for constantly "improving" (changing) things, making it difficult for ISVs to target, when the ISVs themselves are doing the same damn thing!

Eugenia said...

> It's just that the customer is given very few legally legitimate options, and a number of factors (marketing, prominence, trends, availability, support, etc)

So you are saying that someone is ok to be a retarded consumer just because AT&T might give him free tech support for it?

> the reason Bush runs things must be because either people don't care

People DIDN'T care *enough* to educate themselves properly when they voted him for a second time. The first time I can forgive because you never know how a person really is. But the second time, no, the US voters had no clue, and didn't care to get a clue, about who to vote for. They didn't analyze the situation, the majority just went for the one who felt closer to them intellectually and religiously.

So no, people just don't care. They go to their daily lives, they watch Oprah, they believe their church's crap but without actually putting it into practice, and it stops right there. I am also of the opinion that ~90% of the world population are just plain stupid and not much can be done for them other than riding them in the ass in every (financial) opportunity you get.

Anonymous said...

@eugenia
But then the problem is education rather than care, isn't it? No one has a million hours every day to study everything they need to. My mother is as clueless about what portable movie and music player to get as I am about how to fix that weird noise in my car. No one is capable of knowing everything about everything, so we all end up on the stupid side of most things and hope that the powers that be get us to the right place. Look at how much people are willing to spend on an iPod. Do you think the average consumer cares enough to know how it's inferior in every single technological way to less expensive devices? Or do they just want a portable music player? These are the sorts of things that lead to iPods leading the market, and Bushes leading countries.

It really doesn't matter whether it's "ok" to be ignorant or not. Fact is, it's inevitable. Choices are made out of convenience or necessity. Only when ignorance itself ceases to be convenient (oops, our president invaded two countries, or oops, I can't play my music on my other device) do better decisions get made.

Abel Cheung said...

Yes, Eugenia, I'd agree with the other opinions too. Customers care only when they are educated of that other choice, and the choice is convenient enough for them.

For example, educate people to use ogg rather than mp3. Now, it might be OK on PCs, think about phones.

OK, this ogg thing plays on my phone too? Let me see. Hm. What? Not only I don't know what this ogg thing, the phone doesn't understand the shit too? Nah, bye bye. Don't waste my time.

People are only willing to switch choices if that doesn't involve too great a change for them.

Anonymous said...

Hi, your blog was quite funny while there was some kind of truth in your posts. But lately it's like you don't even read the linked article.

The original mistake we made was to take the code to our labs, change it and then release it at the last minute.
They - Nokia - forked the code ... not the community ...

But I agree with you, awesome proprietary developpers would never fork an open source project and make it incompatible

Eugenia said...

> But then the problem is education rather than care, isn't it?

No, education and care are closer than you think. If you cared, you would educate yourself, and if you were educated, you would care.

>Do you think the average consumer cares enough to know how it's inferior in every single technological way to less expensive devices?

The iPod is not inferior to the less expensive devices. It's way superior. As a reviewer I have seen countless such products, none works better and with more pleasure than the iPod and the iPhone. They don't even come close.

>It really doesn't matter whether it's "ok" to be ignorant or not. Fact is, it's inevitable.

I don't feel ignorant about most things I buy. When we bought that Pioneer 50" plasma 3.5 months ago, we knew exactly what we were buying and most importantly, WHY we were buying that model in particular. Same goes for my phone, my media player, my game console, my car, my digital cameras, my camcorder and its accessories. I read reviews, I read the specs, I make sure I understand the specs, and then I evaluate the offer as a whole.

If you are telling me that consumers don't want to be like I am, then I can only write over here that they simply don't care and they just eat up whatever marketing is shoving into their throat. So don't try to debunk my "customers don't care" comment. If customers cared, they would buy unlocked phones that they don't go dead after visiting another country or even after moving to just a different carrier. As long as it works NOW, they are cool. Because these people, are trading price and freedom for the NOW factor. Their iTunes songs/videos work NOW on their current iPod. Their phone works NOW with that carrier. But traded flexibility away for a lower price.

Same with voting for that president the second time. None cares about the America of 10 years from now, they only care about NOW and how to pay fewer taxes. People just don't care, dude.

Eugenia said...

> For example, educate people to use ogg rather than mp3.

Erm, that's not a good example. You can't "educate" someone to use a WORSE format than mp3. And the quality is even more glaring when it comes to OGG Theora video vs H.264.

Abel Cheung said...

@eugenia:

You can't "educate" someone to use a WORSE format than mp3. And the quality is even more glaring when it comes to OGG Theora video vs H.264.

OK OK, you're indeed right, though that's not my point. My point is, even if people know existance of choices, they won't just change. Personal habit is a strong hindering factor.

But indeed, buying iPhone doesn't involve much change in habit. That's why they don't care. Price and locking don't mean much. But if you tell people they need to switch off all electrical appliances before using iPhone, that would be a hindering factor.

BTW, I really hoped Bush can be the president for 3rd time (yes, I know this is not allowed). He can destroy every other nation at will, but after that US would slump too, and that would be a good news for the rest of the world, be it Europe, Asia, Africa or anywhere else. This world would be a better place without US, I forgot which country conducted this poll.

Anonymous said...

eugenia, I cannot take seriously anyone who considers the iPod to be similar to similarly priced devices. I'm a little bit disgusted that someone with such limited knowledge of portable music hardware has gotten paid to write about them, but whatever.

I suppose if you actually cared, you'd educated yourself.

Eugenia said...

> I cannot take seriously anyone who considers the iPod to be similar to similarly priced devices.

I can't take seriously a stupid troll like you either. If you think that the iPod is inferior to other mp3 devices, then you seriously have a mental disability that goes against the platform that Apple's designers designed the player for.

>I'm a little bit disgusted that someone with such limited knowledge of portable music hardware has gotten paid to write about them, but whatever.

Aha. Yeah. So I guess you have more than my 15 mp3 players and 10 PMPs, and 20 cellphones. And btw, I never got paid to write reviews. My work at OSNews was always for free. So get a clue.

>I suppose if you actually cared, you'd educated yourself.

I suppose if you were serious you would have the decency to include a name and an email address. But no, it's easier to write useless crap anonymously.

Anonymous said...

Linux Hater Edit : Well let's never fork then, so that we cannot have firefox, inkscape, xorg, gcc, and oops it looks like most fine software has either been forked into something more useful, rotted into oblivion or is going to.

Let the software be forked and may the fittest survive, it's called evolution. You may think it stinks as a development model now, but wait until the software forks itselfs ;D

Abel Cheung said...

...we cannot have firefox, inkscape, xorg, gcc, and...

Gcc? I suppose you mean egcs->gcc?

Anonymous said...

Abel Cheung > yep :)

James said...

Pretty much my favourite fork was Pidgin -> FunPidgin. "Oh no they changed the way the text box resizes! Fork!"

Then someone made a plugin to change it back... Simpler, no?

That said, the developers were real bitches about it.

robertl said...

The best part about the headline is how it contradicts reality.

Lets see... Moblie phones 5 years ago & the Linux kernel... Not really happening.
Mobile phone now & the Linux kernel... 'Uh, guys, if we don't port Linux to our platform we are going to get left in the dust'...
Oh, and Nokia tries to do the corporate strong arm which will... Puke in their face.
Ah, but it's good to know that corporate shills like you, Linux Hater are firmly in the grasp of everything not human about our world. Hell if 'you and your lady' (like you have one, heh) can't watch a movie... Well, life is fucking ruined. Better start a blog about how much I hate Open Source & Human rights. Boo hoo, someone shit his pants and can't wipe his own ass but wants to feel like they can. d00d, full on, empower thyself and let us know how much Nokia notices you and your next big purchase. I'd go ahead and crap all over people who believe in something just because I couldn't get a fucking movie to play under ubu. Cause it's all about economics right, and your position at the top of the heap, you and 'your lady', watching movies on your pimpin mac, talkin DRM & SIM like you have a clue. Hee, go wipe your ass honey, when DRM is a true thing of the past, you'll still be stuck watching trailers like the good little troll you are.

Abel Cheung said...

@james:

My favorite one is fire* vs ice* though. Watching how Debian fights against the world is always fun. But indeed yours is hilarious too. Thanks for that!

Oh yeah, so many examples:
- compiz vs beryl
- imagemagick vs graphicsmagick
- ......

Anybody got more hilarious examples? I'm posting my old article online (previously on Chinese Linux magazine), to educate how Chinese people should behave or avoid, and one part of it talks about such insane or shameless forks.

Anonymous said...

There's only one way to fix this problem: Only have brilliant people with great collaboration skills run any given project. But since, by definition, most people are lazy, stupid, and lacking in collaboration skills, you have the current fork mess. Everyone has different priorities, interests, and bugaboos; hence, OSS is a big fucking circle-jerk of asstards.

My advice: I say we dust off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...

Abel Cheung said...

After reading more and more about the funpidgin thing, I, for some unknown reason, start to become furious. Especially after reading the whole "bug report". Maybe it's a good idea to write about how those utterly shameless selfish beings keep plain lying they are creating stuff for "masses".

Anonymous said...

Anonymous about forks:
But those are few good examples. What about other senseless forks like Iceweasel, cdrkit, and lots of others for small projects we don't even know.

James said...

@Abel:

Yeah, I got pretty worked up too after reading that same bug report; there's no sense to the developers' arguments. I was seriously considering FunPidgin because of that, before realising that even though OSS allows you to create forks like that and whatnot, it's really not a good idea to do that often, and was unjustified in that case. Still, it'd be nice if they *did* take the users into more consideration...

Anonymous said...

Iceweasel is a great fork, fuck Firefox.

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