Saturday, June 21, 2008

Quickie

Unfortunately, don't have any time to post anything today. I've got a social event to attend.

But I will leave you with a quick quote that comes from one of the most senior engineers at my workplace. This guy is as anti-microsoft as you can get, but he also doesn't give two shits about how to configure a Linux system. We recently helped him install Ubuntu Hardy because his old FC3 install was getting a little long in the tooth. After a day or so of Q&A (because Debian-based systems are so different from Red Hat-like ones, for no reason) he came around to trying to install is trusty old text editor from source, and realized that Ubuntu doesn't have any dev libraries installed. We explained to him how Ubuntu is more user-oriented and so doesn't have a lot of the traditional developer support out-of-box. After a little more discussion, he said:

Linux without a compiler? What good is that?


To me, that line seems to sum up a lot of what is good and bad about Linux.

Have fun fixing your sound cards all weekend. I'm out.

54 flames:

makkus said...

Maybe a silly question, but why the switch to Ubuntu? Or would sticking with Fedora spoil the flame?

In that case I'm sorry for asking.

Anonymous said...

Fedora is a fucking joke. A horrible, horrible fucking joke. No one's laughing, because they're too busy crying in frustration.

Ubuntu sucks, but at least it isn't the leading cause of suicide amongst Linux converts.

Fucking Fedora. Die in a fire, you and your shitty-ass developers.

"Oh, boo-hoo, people want Firefox 2 instead of Firefox 1.5, and they're not respecting my authority as a developer because they're complaining about it, oh no! Let me threaten to leave (like anyone cares) and cry about it to my mommy." Dumbasses.

Oh, and hey, let's just keep insisting that yum and RPM have no problems, but then also insist that we're going to fix these non-existent problems in the next release.

Dumbasses. Fuck Fedora, get a real distro.

DSS said...

<sarcasm>I love how this blog offers so much non-constructive criticism.</sarcasm>
Reading between the insults I can see that you do know what you're talking about. You have obviously used Linux for quite a while (by choice or force I wonder?), and I agree with some of your points.
So, what's your proposed solution? Use Vista? OS X? Solaris? Throw the computer out the window? Or maybe you're just trying to actively make enough Linux devs realise which shortcomings affect you so they might prioritise fixing those to make you happy (which frankly is perfectly valid)?

Since you didn't offer one, here's my solutions for today's post:
Solution 1. (Assuming he wants to stay with Ubuntu):
sudo apt-get install build-essential
Will install a fairly basic build environment.
Then he needs to grab the -dev versions of any libraries his editor depends on - since you haven't told us which editor, I can't offer specific help here, other than the list is usually found in it's README or INSTALL file.
If it's something already in the Ubuntu repository and he's just compiling a newer version, he can do a:
sudo apt-get build-dep <editor name>
to install everything needed to build that package from source - compiler, dev libraries and so on.
Solution 2. Use a developer centric distribution that doesn't separate packages into user and -dev and has a compiler pre-installed.

Personally I find this a lot less painful than doing the equivalent operation on Windows or OS X where I don't have a package manager to handle most of it for me so I have to do everything manually, but YMMV.

Anonymous said...

This post does seem a little hypocritical. LH has bitched before about how compiling from source is a pain in the ass, and now he's complaining about Ubuntu not coming preloaded with the tools required to do so.

Make up your fucking mind.

Besides, if someone is going to go about compiling stuff, I'd assume they'd know how to use a package manager. I'd also assume that, of the whole process of compiling a package on Ubuntu, using apt would be the least shitty thing to bitch about.

Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHA!

This is the fucking lamest post ever. Down goes LH in the shit of OS X love makin' and hypocrisy. Sorry dude, but you're off my feed reader now! Ur fame is ovah, ur's officially lame.

Anonymous said...

It's called Applications - Add/Remove. It's just two clicks away. Two. One, two.

For morons who failed to find it, and went through the biggest way of compiling and failing, is a special, here is a picture. FOR YOU BOTH: AWARD

Anonymous said...

Awesome blog! Glad I found it. I wanted to point out a couple of things:

(1) most of the freetards, in my experience, are not even programmers; all their crusading sounds like factory workers saying groceries should be free for everyone and farmers should work for free

(2) the overabundant obscenities in this blog, as funny as they are, prevent me from forwarding it my colleagues on our internal mailing lists

Anonymous said...

Reading your blog it feels like, u are one of those stupid developers who want everything out of the box. I mean what good is a developer who wants spoon feeding. Get a life fucker, theres is a simple solution too all the problems you write here. And those solutions would definitely take less time than cribbing about the problems here.

NoWhereMan said...

I think you guys are actually missing the point behind the post, and, at least *I'm* the one missing it, the problem is that the guy in the post admits that Linux is no good without a compiler.

h1d said...

if there's a solution to every problem, why is linux's desktop market share 3%? people like you are the typical type of people this blog is complaining about.

as long as those free coders tell users 'fix it yourself with google and code hacking because we are doing it for free, suit yourself than fix us', you know... this blog keeps making sense.

otoh centos is pretty much a joke, it's made difficult in the first place, so that rhel can get a lot of support contract. in one of the installation it didn't even come with its own package manager.

# yum
yum : command not found

i loved it.

Anonymous said...

dss wrote some things about a solution.

The solution is to change the way some distributions behave.

They are HUGE.

It is hard to change them.

People must push their distribution to change it, or abandon it.

I have since long abandoned the distribution wars.

Anonymous said...

the problem is that the guy in the post admits that Linux is no good without a compiler.

maybe you need to actually read his post

NoWhereMan said...

maybe you need to actually read his post

Maybe I wasn't clear; I meant that if your OS is supposed to come with a compiler to work as expected, then maybe *that's* the problem.

Anonymous said...

> Fedora is a fucking joke.

Actually, no, it's not. It's just free QA for Red Hat.

You can't pay devs and testers to roll out a product, unless you get some money out of said product. And some devs would work for free (or resume points), but the good ones want money for their work.

So... roll out free Fedora, get the "comunity" to test it for free, and sell RHEL to IBM and such.

Anonymous said...

"I mean what good is a developer who wants spoon feeding."

I don't think most "good" developers would agree with this. "Good" developers want good tools and a good environment to get the job done fast and right.

Only an apologist wannabe fool will jump through extra unnecessary hoops to "prove" their skills.

Anonymous said...

Linux, GNU, the FSF, and all these life loser magnets should stop marketing themselves like panaceas.

Until I can play crysis on GNU/Linux, their mentality will be a FAILURE.

Alexei said...

>> Maybe I wasn't clear; I meant that if your OS is supposed to come with a compiler to work as expected, then maybe *that's* the problem.

It's like a new car that is no good without a blowtorch - in my book.

Abel Cheung said...

Think about the Ubuntu aumix bureaucr^Wmatter.

Since people can download and install compiler by themselves, they could fix the problem themselves and enjoy, and didn't need to wait for half a year. At least people skillful enough have a choice.

And the pathetic side is, one have to compile on their own in order to fix problems caused by distro, especially when the distro says everybody else is wrong and they alone are correct.

A bless and curse mixed in one single sentence.

Jean Azzopardi said...

The sheer ignorance here is remarkable.

While I do agree that Ubuntu should be bundled with a compiler, Ubuntu is aimed for normal folks..who don't touch programming, or source archives. They just download what they need from synaptic. Hence, no compiler = more room for more packages.

To the idiot : "Linux, GNU, the FSF, and all these life loser magnets should stop marketing themselves like panaceas.

Until I can play crysis on GNU/Linux, their mentality will be a FAILURE."
Clearly, playing crysis too much has addled your brain. Just convince Crytek to port the game to OpenGL and from there, to Linux. It's not the fault of Linux, of the GNU, or of the FSF that they're not doing it.

As for Linux needing a compiler out of the box, yes, it does. Some people don't bother to release packages for all the distributions out there, and hence, they just distribute the code. From then on, compiling and installing is a simple 3 lines..although you do have to fetch the dependencies.

And as for configuring my soundcard..heh..it's not even funny..I hadn't had to touch it since I installed Arch Linux..about 5-6 months ago.

Anonymous said...

"It's called Applications - Add/Remove. It's just two clicks away. Two. One, two.

For morons who failed to find it, and went through the biggest way of compiling and failing, is a special,"


And what if you want to install a program that's not in the repository?

Whoops. . .

Anonymous said...

Linux market share is currently 0.68%
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=9&qpcustom=Linux

Up 0.2% from last year.
assuming linear growth, Linux will reach 3% market share in 10 years.

Assuming exponential growth (30% growth every year - which is a fucking huge growth figure), Linux will reach 3% market share in 6 years.

Considering that Linux has been around for about 15 years, and only now reached the quite pathetic figure of 0.68% market penetration,
we can assume that the growth rate of Linux is weakly linear, and therefore will NEVER reach critical penetration.

Just FYI - OsX had a growth ratio of about 0.2% each month last year - the entire growth figure of the entire desktop Linux ecosystem.

In short - futile attempt at the impossible, by the wrong group of people.

Now y'all go fuck yourselves, you pathetic moron freetard, fagballing foss farters!

Anonymous said...

I wrote above that distributions are one of the biggest culprits.

Noone of you guys referred to it at all, and I believe I know why - you guys have not realized this!

Ubuntu comes without a compiler out of the box. Period.
A USER MUST ACTIVELY INVEST ENERGY TO REMEDY THIS SITUATION!
He ALSO CAN NOT CHOOSE IF HE WANTS TO KEEP ALL DEV LIBRARIES/HEADERS EASILY, OR NOT.

Do you guys not realize that distributions are the biggest problem here?

Sure, you can opt to not use Ubuntu, but Ubuntu has a few things going for it - namely a big community and a user-centric approach (that they fail in many ways is another matter).

The distributions compete against each other and the biggest losers are the USERS. Do you guys not realize this?

Linux market share is low because they dont care about YOU in the end to make YOUR LIFE better.

If they would have, serious problems would have been solved much quicker.

Distributions need to die. There should be only one Linux, it should be as modular as possible but as GOOD as possible.

This will never happen.

Distributions will ALWAYS ACTIVELY SEEK to be incompatible to each other.

Have you ever thought about WHY there are many DIFFERENT package managers?

They dont want you to install or remove something easily with 0 problems.

They WANT you to use their crap.

Can I download bluefish from ubuntu and have it work on my redhat machine easily?

No I cant.


Think why this is not possible...

Anonymous said...

seems like nowadays trolls like you simply utilize a blog.

It's amazing how manipulative a "rant" blog like this is, most comments sound just like you articles.
It's really embarrasing and ridicolous how your "flamers" compete with you in usage of bad language...

Anonymous said...

If you tards want a compiler THAT much, click here:

apt://build-essential

(note: NOT compatible with MS Windows or OS X! Tough luck, no one-click compiler installation for you)

Note: oops, looks like blogger sucks heavily and isn't allowing an apt: link to be linkified. Well, too bad.

h1d said...

I guess the blogger.com coders didn't care about 0.X% userbase...

And I guess too bad that hardware makers and game devs don't too...

But obviously it's not a chicken and egg situation.

Anonymous said...

You idiots!! This is a fantastic post and all of you idiots with your stupid "you can do apt-get "(ohhh with a sudo please) and all ..fuck you!

this post in NOT about ubuntu being bad because it doesn't have compiler by default , or HOW you can install a compiler with apt-get etc. WE ALL fucking know that dumbass ... you aren't the first one to use a package management system and you certainly don't have to tell us how ..

Its about how any normal user(atleast the ones who haven't used ubuntu) think that gcc is essential for linux. There is something wrong with that .. that you NEED a compiler without which the OS is unusable to many.

But then again , what is good is that we are getting there .. a major OS comes without a compiler and many people are able to use it .. thats good (atleast thats the good I see, although I think LH is talking about something else)

but you stupid ubuntu fanboys have to come and give your stupid apt-get comments ... dont you get it ? He is a much better linux user , he is much more smarter and WE ALL KNOW that we can do apt-get .. so what? go write your stupid rants on an ubuntu forum where everyone else atleast gives a shit about what a stupid ubuntu user says....

Harish said...

A USER MUST ACTIVELY INVEST ENERGY TO REMEDY THIS SITUATION!
He ALSO CAN NOT CHOOSE IF HE WANTS TO KEEP ALL DEV LIBRARIES/HEADERS EASILY, OR NOT.


Then how can a normal person use Linux ? Say that Linux is not meant for common people and we will not say anything against it. But you forcibly
convert people by using invective and you say you need to invest a lot of energy to make it work. May be you have plenty of time luser , but I dont have as I am busy

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