Sunday, June 8, 2008

Standardizing Linux Suckiness

If you've been following Linux for as long as we have, you instinctively wince at any mention of the three letters L-S-B. Yes, they're the people that once promised to come in and standardize the cluster-fuck that is Linux distros and create something that ISV's could actually ship against.

What have they achieved so far? Take a look for yourself. Yay, we have tons of out-dated platforms, and FOUR fucking apps. Fanfuckingtastic job guys. You should be proud that after so many years, a few crazy French dudes at the wine project have done way more to make applications shippable on Linux. Meanwhile, you've caused distributions to waste a bunch of precious time that could have been spent adding more bugs to core security libraries.

Wait, wait. I'm not done. I got a suggestion for you guys. It's total super rocket science. It's way more advanced than huge automated test suites, static code analysis, or any other shit. It's crazy hot, even more so than your mom, and your mom's mom:

STANDARDIZE THE BINARIES.

By that, I mean ship the same fucking kernel, the same gcc, the same glibc, the same libstdc++, the same coreutils, the same fucking core system. Every distro can take the same bits, and package them and add layers and layers and layers of scripts around them however they want. But in the center, use the SAME binary code. And if there are bugs, work together to fix them.

What happens then? as an ISV, I know that if I can run against this set of binaries, then my shit will run on your system. I can minimize my dependencies on other freetard libraries that will break at any moment. In other words, it becomes a tractable problem. All the distros can still pile all their incompatible stacks of feces on top, but at least something at the core will be common and predictable.

With the same binaries, I also don't need test suites. I don't have to test if your bits act the same as mine because they're the same bits. This isn't so different from Mr. Shuttleworth's release cycle synchronization argument. In practice, if everyone ships the same kernel and gcc and glibc, you'll probably end up with the same binaries anyways.

But what about the CHOICE? Thanks for asking, fucktard.

Let me give you a choice: a distro with glibc-2.6.ass which adds some obscure function that has no relevance to your daily life, OR your favorite Windows app ported to Linux. Which would you like? I thought so. Now please step the fuck off.

If these lusers are ever going to be taken seriously, they'll need to realize that there are choices that matter, and then there are those I hate you for. I want a choice between good and better ( like choosing between fucking Angeline Jolie and Heidi Klum), not the choice between suck and suck more (like deciding to wanking off to Danny DeVito or Pauley Shore).

Crappy choice #1: The kernel. I don't care what kernel I have. I want my hardware to work. I want the kernel to be stable enough so that hardware companies can hope to write open or closed drivers for it without having to read lkml. I want my scheduler to be consistent and long-living enough so that others can learn to actually optimize for it.

Crappy choice #2: glibc. I don't care what glibc I have. I want my apps to work. I want Adobe to think, "hey shipping software for Linux is not quite as bad as anal rape."

It's a tragedy of the commons really. Every fucking distribution picks its slightly different upstream versions, because they think they can do it better than everyone else, or they want to be more cutting edge. Of course, in the process, they segment the platform. Oh sorry, did that go over your heads there? Is that too advanced for you? Can you not see that your new awesome slight variation of the Linux platform is another fucking reason I'm not going to ship my awesome app for Linux at all?

It's not too different from watching Democrats fight between Obama and Clinton. If they could just get over themselves and stop bickering over implementation details, they could easily win.

Y'all need to see that if you actually let go of your stupid reasons and actually fix Linux's problems, you could actually create something that could take over the world. Actually, now that I think about it, don't do that. I like hating on you guys. Please, continue defecating on each other and being the laughing stock of the software development community.

98 flames:

Anonymous said...

Boring...

h1d said...

yes, watching linux desktop market share never grow is very boring indeed.

and why don't devs understand these comical but accurate points about why linux never take off?

it is funny that the word 'oss' is taken as a great philosophy yet no one actually learns software development (business) model and 99% just fails.

mixing up freedom and free of price is the dumb thing to start with. people even attack people for selling gpl software others wrote, but that's a good laugh.

Abel Cheung said...

Your suggestion is practically driving LSB out of business. How dare you. LSB means big money. B-I-G MONEY. Money can be earned without any effort.

Maybe no one believe until they understand how LSB certfication is done. If you're in Linux distro business and you want LSB compliance, just run the testsuite all by yourself and generate the report. Have FAIL in the report? No problem. Either change scripts or stuff until you got a PASS, or just edit the report file itself in notepad until everything is PASS. LSB people just want to see your report file and your money, don't bother them with nitty-gritty detail. I forgot the lump sum now, definitely more than 2^12 US dollar during very old days (>5yrs), not sure if price raised to 2^13 or 2^14.

So great a business that can be sustained while they are enjoying their favorite TV show or go skiing, but you want to destroy that. Prepare to have your whole family's heads chopped off overnight.

John Reese said...

Mark Shuttleworth actually proposed coordinating the release cycles of Ubuntu with other mainstream distros, like Fedora/Red Hat/et al, with the intent of working together to share kernel/gcc/library versions to mak ethings more compatible. Unfortunately, his proposal was pretty well rejected by other distros...

Fuzzyman said...

Yeah, and "dll hell" came into existence because shipping working binaries for Windows is so easy...

Bill Gates said...

Linux is not an OS. It's a set of pieces of shit. And the number of pieces continue to grow, exponencially!

Only the stupid guys that never coded for it, think that it's the best OS in the world. I've coded for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and Solaris, and I can surely say that Linux is the crappy one. Full of shit.

It has a billion packages, where 90% are useless.

Anonymous said...

omg, you're points are so valid I could cry out.
shuttleworth seems to slowly realize that, too...

Anonymous said...

"Let me give you a choice: a distro with glibc-2.6.ass which adds some obscure function that has no relevance to your daily life, OR your favorite Windows app ported to Linux. Which would you like? I thought so."

You thought wrong, I do not want nor need a Windows app ported to my GNU OS.

"I want Adobe to think, "hey shipping software for Linux is not quite as bad as anal rape.""

I don't give a fuck about what Adobe thinks. There's Flash for GNU/Linux and I don't even use it. It's not free and it sucks.

Jeff Bailey said...

The reason the LSB is as weird and complicated as it is, is generally three-fold:

1) When RHEL releases every 2 years, and Ubuntu releases every 6 months, you'll never get the same base toolchains.

2) It's always possible that slightly different versions of underlying bits like glibc or the compiler can cause gross ABI changes.

3) Everyone compiling with the same toolchain and base libraries would've guarantee backwards compatability at all. Only a test suite can do that (and then, only within the limits of what's tested).

I'm not saying that LSB has done a fantastic job, but I haven't seen a better proposal out there (including yours)

(obDisclosure: I'm an LSB steering committee member)

Anonymous said...

@Jeff: The big problem with LSB is the same as compiling on some prehistoric distro - it forces you to use really outdated compilers. It just doesn't work, not if you plan to use c++. I've been doing portable executables for 6+ years now and it's been really painful, I needed to build cross compilers, etc. I got lucky with the recent gcc 4.2.x releases - they included the --with-sysroot option (binutils also), so I can finally build our software with relative ease. That means using g++ 4.2.x on Ubuntu 8.04 workstation targeting Red Hat 7.0 era distros.

But I feel like a retard, on windows you simply don't link against newer symbols and you can run your software on win95 if you wish. Or, if you really want to, you simply do LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress and you're done. Of course on Linux, you have the versioned symbols mess, just to complicate the matters needlessly.

Anonymous said...

The biggest issue is the FHS. LSB extends the FHS, so if the FHS will be bad, LSB will only make this situation worse.

LSB is about money.

Everyone that claims differently is a liar.

They are not about users, because a user would WANT TO SEE THE FHS go away.

A user would want neat AppDirs without files being spread all over the place.
An AppDir, which he can unplug and replug at will, seamlessly, and have things work easily.

Mac does it all the time. Even Windows does it (indirectly with help of registry + .exe files).

Why do the linux distributions refuse this?

Anonymous said...

Angelina Jolie is BETTER than Heidi Klum!!! FAIL

Anonymous said...

This is EXACTLY why any distro of Linux will always be on a livdDVD incase I ever need it. I will never install or switch completely over to linux. I want my desktop computing to be an easy and compatible experience. Linux (Sambayon, which is what I use now) is beautiful. But distros need to stop fucking around. Want to know why Micro$shaft pwns linux? Because its created a Standard. On the other hand, as a newb, you get on Sabayon Live Help chatline, and you see arrogant and pompous behavior. So FUCK Linux and FUCK all these distros. It's 2009, wake up idiots. Linux easily has the ability to rule the world if someone puts the smack down on all these distros.

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