Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Don't feed the trolls!

Looks like this Manu guy took the bait.

Let's just see what he has to say, shall we? (sorry, many blockquotes to follow)


Is your system unstable?Who knew. When a system doesn’t do anything, it doesn’t crash.” All of Google runs Linux. So Google doesn’t do anything? Well that’s news. Nasa probably doesn’t do anything either? The French administration doesn’t do anything? Oh wait, that was a bad example.
Holy crap. I've never heard this argument before! You know what, I'll help you out. The NYSE runs Linux too! That's really great to know. I'll be sure to recommend Linux to my grandma next time she wants to set up a global stock exchange in her knitting room.

Lusers always like to find instances of companies or organizations with extremely uncommon Linux use cases and somehow say that the reason that I should run it on my computer. Hey, I know. My fridge runs an embedded OS called FridgeOS (actually, I made that up, I don't know the name). It supports four buttons and has better temperature controls than Linux. It's really stable. I've never seen it crash. It's also really minimal and won't use all your RAM. You should totally port it to run on your PC. That would be truly awesome.

Choose what your desktop looks like…To make yourself feel better about it not being to do anything. At least it is pretty.” Huh, were you just talking about Windows Vista? :-)
Wait. Is that a retort? Are you saying that Vista can't do anything? I think there's a few people (or rather, a good part of the rest of the world) that disagrees with you. Why don't you try talking to them once in a while?

Too many windows? Use workspaces.Yes. Spaces.” Oh, you mean that Mac OS X thing? So if I got two windows A and B on space 1, I put window B in front/focus, then I go to space 2, then back to 1, woops, now A is in front of B. And this is the newest version of the OS, released this year. Linux got this right 10 years ago.
Yes, spaces on OSX is kinda weird. But that's not my problem. I'd take the usability, stability, and application availability of OSX over your slightly better implementation of virtual desktops any day. Oh, and also, I think OSX had something called working 3d acceleration on all their 3d capable hardware. In the words of the late FSJ: Have you heard of it?

And BTW, you left out the part about Virtuawin. For that matter, you left out like more than half of the points I made. You're just gonna pick on those parts that you think you can win, and then show your ubuntu planet-reading fanboys that you're full of victories, and then conclude that you win overall, right? Nice. Class-ay!

Oh and BTWx2, please explain to me the difference between desktops, workspaces, window manager viewports, and X viewports again?

Why does your Windows get slower day after day?Because you install a shit-ton of crap on it? If the same large selection of software could run on Linux, users would be having all the same problems“. Would they now? Fortunately for Linux, uninstalling software is done in a clean way and doesn’t leave a shit-ton of crap in your registry.
Umm, as one of my smarter commenters said, have you every tried 'make uninstall'? Have you ever built anything from source because your distro didn't happen to package the program you wanted or the version you wanted? Try removing that. It's really fun. I swear.

Forget about viruses. “I think we went over that already” (with a link to another post). Oh, so the problem of viruses in Windows is completely fixed, solve, basta, finito? That’s news as well.
Thanks for actually reading the post I linked. The post says your standard luser argument is crap because the same characteristics that protect Linux from viruses also "protect" it from useful third party software. Linux has thrown the baby out with the bathwater and then proclaimed to the rest of the world that it is really good at throwing out bathwater. If you actually had any clue as to how hard it is to create a usable platform on which others can deploy software AND at the sametime have reasonable security, you'd actually see that modern Windows (XP SP2 and beyond) are pretty good attempts.

Linux protects your computer.
What does that even mean? It sounds like the same as [the previous one]“. Does that mean the problems with spyware, adware, etc. is fixed as well? Well, great. Oh, but maybe you don’t know about them because you’re protected, right? How much did you pay for this protection? Are all users well protected? Is the average user well protected? I guess not because otherwise, all these crapware problems would have gone away by now, right? :-)
Uhh, I don't use any antivirus if that's what you're asking? These days it's pretty easy to keep even novice users on windows from fucking themselves over. Tell them to never install anything when internet explorer asks them to, and to never open an attachment that outlook warns them about. That's about it. That's a hell of a lot easier than teaching them to use Linux, and explaining to them why they can't edit videos anymore.

Don’t pay $300 for your operating system.But spend 10 weekends setting it up“. Well, now I understand why you don’t like Linux that much, that’s because last time you tried to install it was 10 years ago! Got it. By the way, last time I installed Windows, it took me a whole day to go, fetch, and install all the device drivers for my hardware. And reboot after installing each one of them. Last time I installed Ubuntu, I spent 10mn in front of the screen, went away for 20mn, and everything was working and ready to be used when I came back.
Wow. I must send the Guinness World Records guys an email because I think that's the longest version of "WORKS FOR ME!" that I've ever seen.
Does your digital life seem fragmented?No? Does anyone care? Is it so hard to click three buttons to defragment?“. Well if it takes 5 hours and I can’t use my computer during that time, yes. Oh but didn’t you just wonder whether anyone cared? So why are you still doing it? :-)
As someone also pointed out, Vista does this in the background. And RELAX! nobody said you had to run defrag the same night that your term paper is due. Just start it before you go to sleep. If you're super geeky, you can even set things up so that it happens for you every weekend while you're out and about.. oh wait. Scratch that. I guess if you never leave your computer, then you don't ever have any time to defrag. Sucks for you!

First I accuse your website of spreading standard luser lies. Then you come back at me spreading more ridiculous arguments. I don't care if your website has an obscure section about cases in which Linux might not be a good idea, because that part is wrong too.

But the best part is, there are commenters on your blog post (and on others I've seen), that all say "don't feed the trolls!" Is that really the best you guys can do? Dude, fucking Miguel de Icaza himself links to this blog. He like fucking invented Gnome or something. Have you heard of him? You think he's a fucking idiot too? When faced with an insurmountable argument (aka the truth), all you have to come back is "don't feed the trolls!". The more I hear it, the more it starts sounding like "RUN AWAY! RETREAT!" to me.

112 flames:

Horatio_Hellpop said...

//Fortunately for Linux, uninstalling software is done in a clean way and doesn’t leave a shit-ton of crap in your registry.//

Who would want to uninstall MySQL, Apache, Tomcat, Java and iptables once it's installed? Linux on the server is pretty much rock sol ...

oh. you're talking about Linux on the desktop.

In that case, the only true, clean way to uninstall software is rm -r and install Windows.

Anonymous said...

dude you said it. also, can you do a Gnome pride week (or month) since all the Gnome devs seem to be getting cocky about all the K-bashing you did.

nevermore said...

so I'm surely not miguel de icaza but i also like your blog although i'm a FOSS user and contributor.

most of the times you're right and it shows that you used foss alot but in the rush to have a popular blog you started pulling things out of your ass sometimes but i guess exagerations have the purpose to get people into questioning different myths about FOSS.

Keep them comming. don't waste time on stupid people, keep the real articles comming.

Anonymous said...

oh, here a gnome one for you, Gnome decided to switch Epiphany to the WebKit backend so that they can reinvent the wheel that has been almost perfected by Mozilla.

Anonymous said...

Funny Stuff.

Like they said, don't feed the trolls. Keep the great articles coming.

Anonymous said...

Gecko is "almost perfect"? Are you kidding? The based-on-Netscape Gecko? The same Gecko that powers the extremely efficient & speedy Firefox web browser?

Anonymous said...

Just a side note. You have this website thanks to Linux and Google.

Horatio_Hellpop said...

@anonymous freetard #746

//Just a side note. You have this website thanks to Linux and Google.//

Just a side note. This blog concerns Linux _on_the_desktop_. But you knew that, because you're really smart.

Anonymous said...

Heh, the greatest troll ever calls ordinary people trolls.

I lol'd.

bimone said...

Uninstalling apps (removing files) that were installed with make install (lots of them) is easy.

touch /tmp/foobar
make install
find /install/prefix -newer /tmp/foobar -delete

Anonymous said...

Linux Hater: what's scary is that if miguel de icaza now convinces the gnome developers not to do something stupid with Gnome 3.0, this blog will have been the only thing preventing a KDE 4.0 style disaster with gnome. I think we are all greatly indebted for you. Most users aren't able to speak loud enough to convince the developers what the real problems are, and so it's nice that this blog is getting the important issues so much attention.

thecodewitch said...

Just a side note. You have this website thanks to Linux and Google.

Flaming is fun!!

If you'd care to peruse the comments from previous blog posts, it is a near certainty that you may observe a netizen positing the same argument you make here.

Kindly proceed to reflect upon this response, a response which has been given each time this argument has been presented:

Fuck off you clueless little tool!

Google raped linux for its code, modified to it so it supplies a marketable service, then proceeded to make several billion "fuck you fosstards" dollars out of it!

Find me a link to the site where Google is freely giving away the source code of the "linux" that runs their server, their search engine, and their datacenters, and I'll find you a linux zealot that isn't a complete fucking idiot.

Yonah said...

I actually felt sorry for this guy at first. I understand that for many Linux supporters, the OS is more of a lifestyle choice or religion. The feel it's their duty to spread Linux like a bad case of herpes. Manu obviously puts a lot of time into his website and probably feels like it's part of his legacy.

Then I start to read some of the things on Manu's website and I remembered why I hate these dick heads. I can't stand people who bypass common sense to make an argument. It's illogical, it's underhanded, and it's wrong. Those who are passionate about computers strive for the truth, not propaganda.

Anonymous said...

Ah, this is much more interesting than reading all of those tiresome distro reviews that spend %80 of the article discussing the installation and how pretty (or not) the desktop is.

My really deep question is, if Linux is so bloody perfect, then why is always playing catchup to gain technologies that we take for granted on other platforms? (WPA being the big one. That was too long in coming and still isn't perfect).

It may be great on servers, but so is Windows 2000. 2k isn't as viable on the personal non-corporate desktop anymore, however, and Linux *still* isn't.

To me that is a justification for criticism, and even a little bit of frustrated vitriol. Not all of us can code. We can only use what is provided. We still have the freedom to pass judgment based on our experiences, don't we?

If not, then so sorry for riling you elitist bastards out there :)

Anonymous said...

"Fortunately for Linux, uninstalling software is done in a clean way and doesn’t leave a shit-ton of crap in your registry."

I don't really have anything to say to this but "really?"

Anonymous said...

keep'em coming hater.

Linus Torvalds said...

I always love the assumption that if you're using Windows/Mac then you must be buying all of your software. Are they really oblivious to the crap load of free software for Windows and Mac? Some of it is OSS as well. Hell, the instant messenger they talk about is even available on Windows along with a myriad of other free multi-protocol messengers. Why is this so damn hard to acknowledge?

On another note, Windows XP can be slipstreamed with driver packs do you don't have to hunt down drivers. Why is it acceptable to spend a long time configuring Linux but not for Windows? Why is it okay to spend time Google searching things about Linux to fix or learn more about it but not Windows? The reasoning is inconsistent.

Anonymous said...

@yonah: "I actually felt sorry for this guy at first. I understand that for many Linux supporters, the OS is more of a lifestyle choice or religion. The feel it's their duty to spread Linux like a bad case of herpes. Manu obviously puts a lot of time into his website and probably feels like it's part of his legacy."

I have a theory about this phenomenon, and I think that it's more than just "lifestyle choice or religion." The fact of the matter is that there's nothing worse to a lot of people than simply being IGNORED. Linux doesn't get a lot of good news. Most of the time, it's really mixed stuff; like, for example, they're being used by some random organization (eg. Nasa, Google, etc) in a highly-specialized way that never finds it back to the "Community"; and, the zealots consider this a "win", even though it completely flies in their "the source code must be freeeeeeee" mantra. Then, there are the OEMs such as Dell and others, who announce (prematurely) that they're going to offer Linux -- you can almost hear the grinding of the Linux zealots' teeth ("Here's our channnnnnnnnce ... the hour is at hand!") -- and then ... nothing happens. The OEM doesn't advertise it or put any effort into marketing, and it withers on the vine.

So, we point this out to them, and they misappropriate the old Ghandi quote ("First, they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win..."). Except, quite frankly, nobody has really left the laughing phase. We're still laughing at them. Nothing seems to compel anyone to rise to the level of actually fighting anybody. Linux is just that horrifically bad on the desktop. You can't even give it away for free.

So, here's the thing. The reason that Linux zealots fight so hard to throw their nonsense out to the universe (it kind of reminds me of monkeys throwing their own crap at tourists) ... is that (1) their propaganda and (2) a ready supply of idiots who are stupid enough to listen to them, are the only things keeping desktop Linux from imploding completely.

It's the same principle at work as SUICIDE BOMBER RECRUITMENT: You have to have a good grass-roots marketing team, and a steady supply of morons ... or nobody is going to want to blow themselves up. Fortunately for them, the world is a fairly large place, and they're trying to sell ideas which (on their face) sound noble, until you actually spend 5 minutes thinking about them, and then realize that they are nothing more than snake oil salesmen trying to get you to put on the decorative bomber jacket. No thanks. Propaganda is never a subsitute for reason, and the fact is that desktop Linux is a hopeless cause.

Anonymous said...

@linus torvalds: "I always love the assumption that if you're using Windows/Mac then you must be buying all of your software. Are they really oblivious to the crap load of free software for Windows and Mac? Some of it is OSS as well. Hell, the instant messenger they talk about is even available on Windows along with a myriad of other free multi-protocol messengers. Why is this so damn hard to acknowdge?"

It's simple. They don't want to acknowledge that the growth of FOSS software has occurred almost ENTIRELY on the Windows/Mac platforms, not Linux, and it BURRRRRRRRRRRNS. For example, Firefox reportedly has between 15% and 20% of the Web browser market. But Linux has less than 1% of the OS platform market. Even if you pretend that the vast number of Windows boxes aren't attached to the Internet, it's simply too much to believe that Firefox installs are occurring primarily on Linux. The math just doesn't work. So, in fact, Windows and Mac users are the ones using more FOSS software, not Linux.

"Buh-buh-buh...," they say, "... that will make it easier for them to switch to Linucksssss..." No, morons. Linux has been around for more than a decade, and it hasn't even reached 1% market penetration; therefore, you can kiss your delusional dreams of Linux hegemony goodbye. It ain't gonna happen. Just remember, you may actually be insane if you continually repeat the same actions over and over again, and you expect different results.

Anonymous said...

"Oh and BTWx2, please explain to me the difference between desktops, workspaces, window manager viewports, and X viewports again?"

Heh, I just pictured those all active at the same time. Add multiple physical monitors on one end, and Plasma "Containments" on the other and watch the room spin!

The Society For Putting Things Inside of Other Things* would be proud.

* members include Matryoshka Doll makers, the designers of spatial Nautilus, and Hellen Buttigieg.

Anonymous said...

The blog is often damn right but seriously man, have you ever been told you're the type that always want to have the last word even though you're so wrong.
linux, windows, OSX... no system is perfect and no system is complete trash. linux has some good points, it's not all black !!

Anonymous said...

Darn, i'm getting a huge willy reading this. It simply is growing and expanding. About to release a huge lava of steam. "brb going get a can in case it blows."

I'm just joking about above. I have a feeling seriously, that linux as a whole operating system rather than just the kernel. Has a great potential, but commonsense as seems to be pointed out here does not go one on one. Sometimes i question too: Oh gawd how stupid the dev's are being to do this and this.

Good example is ubuntu's recent hiding of monitor resolution program displayconfig-gtk. Instead using its most basic one that is half featured (can't select mode and nvidia 3d driver crippled). displayconfig-gtk only now appears when you can't start display at all. While at it killed xorgconfig and xorg.conf been damaged. Now more things but that is my point. Everything must be done without commonsense.

Anonymous said...

"These days it's pretty easy to keep even novice users on windows from fucking themselves over. Tell them to never install anything when internet explorer asks them to, and to never open an attachment that outlook warns them about."

Sorry, but that statement is simply untrue for over 50% of the Windows users I know.

Anonymous said...

Secound attempt and still wrong. Don't install anything extra into windows and it will still slow down. Every time you change a config you screw with registry. Registry internally is not anti fragmenting so it fragments up and slowly but surely slows the complete system down. Then there is MS logs everyone forgets to clear also slowing the system down. Linux is smarter once log gets past a particular size its gets archived and a new log started. So the OS does not have to handle bigger and bigger files. For some reason windows does not have that basic idea.

Basically Windows is screwed here. I would take Mac or Linux over windows in this regard any day.

There is a really dirty trick to uninstalling a source package. Its called install it again with monitoring. Then nuked what it added. Linux has a extra rule that makes that work. It is not tolerated for a application to play with another applications config file. So it added include file with its data in. So get a list of installed files nuke all them and you have a clean system again. Rules of Linux assist Uninstalling. Rules of Windows don't. Ok application installed the following registry keys ok del them o crap 20 other program broke. Major design issues.

Nice idiot trash on Linux Viruses. I do virus hunting so yes idiot trash. Viruses use the universal abi of Linux. The kernel syscalls. They have less trouble than commercial vendors at being cross linux distributions. Before 2001 they were a issue. Improved Linux secuirty has made it a lot harder to make a virus that operates on Linux.

Funny bit Linux guys use something better than a anti-virus once they are skilled. Its called a HIDS. Host intrusion detection system. It works on the quite simple idea If I know what should be there. And something else it I have a problem. Completely not dependant on signatures to find viruses. So no signature lag. Windows users really need to catch up on tech.

So its not a ABI issue.

The secuirty of Linux has a lot of features that if ad and spyware was released on linux you could put them in a contained zone where they could get nothing useful.

Again not a ABI issue same as viruses there are ways to create cross platform stuff for linux. Just for adware and spyware its particular point less because its only time before some one puts you program in a container were it cannot do crap.

Funny one Vista defragger still lacks a Registry defragger. So all the background defragging only helps with filesystem. Don't worry Ext4 for linux also has a background defragger. Only one catch windows defragger in Vista still suffers from the 90 precent full drive issue were it cannot defrag until you are under 90 percent full. Ext4 defragger is being built to cope with that because that is about the only point ext3 starts fragmenting in the first place.

So please stop providing how much of a idiot and a troll you are. Please do you homework. Linux hater.

I could pull the rest complete to bits listing all the other windows design flaws that make it unstable. Linux does have a few but they are all avoidable windows I wish there was a way.

Anonymous said...

can't....resist....

You have no chance to survive make your time.

You know what you doing - move zig.

For great justice.

Anonymous said...

FOSS seems to only work on independent applications. Once you get FOSS projects that need to be highly integrated with each other the process breaks down as nobody is designing each piece with the whole in mind. You've got one guy doing this thing over here and another guy making something else and some other dude trying to tie the two together and a bunch of 'tards pulling each project in separate directions on top of that. I really don't get the bazaar analogy, seems more like a cluster fuck to me.

LIS said...

Ext4 is not a production file system, Like ReiserFS 4 isn't, for the time being, it's fairy dust.

There are free 3rd party registry defragramentors, here's one:
http://www.registry-clean.net/free-registry-defrag.htm

Oh, and I'm still running the same XP installation from 4 ago (+updates) on my laptop. works perfectly, much better (faster, more reliable, better applications, what have you).than the Ubuntu installation on the other partition. Oh, I'm yet to run defrag after all those years, because I was lazy and the system worked a treat.

FOSS is dead. Get used to it.

LH, please do a kernel architecture and performance overview! I've posted a relevant link in your previous post. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

@anonymous: Don't install anything extra into windows and it will still slow down. Every time you change a config you screw with registry. Registry internally is not anti fragmenting so it fragments up and slowly but surely slows the complete system down."

So what. The same is true of the filesystem, in general. Write to disk, and you're going to fragment it. Doesn't matter whether it's the registry or other random files.

There is a really dirty trick to uninstalling a source package. Its called install it again with monitoring. Then nuked what it added. Linux has a extra rule that makes that work.

Grrrrrrrreat. Yet another hack on top of a hack.

Viruses use the universal abi of Linux. The kernel syscalls. They have less trouble than commercial vendors at being cross linux distributions.

Since when is it necessary for a piece of malware to hack the kernel in order to do damage? How about simply recursively deleting all of the files in a user's home directory? Wow. Damage done. Sure, you could back it up from your backup CDs; however, given how few people actually back up their data on a regular basis, they would still be SCREWED.

So its not a ABI issue.

Big deal. Most malware nowadays attacks application layer, not the kernel.

The secuirty of Linux has a lot of features that if ad and spyware was released on linux you could put them in a contained zone where they could get nothing useful.

Look, if malware takes advantage of a buffer overrun in Firefox, it can upload all of your user files to a location of its choosing. So, we can dispense with all the BS about the "secuirity of Linux."

Just for adware and spyware its particular point less because its only time before some one puts you program in a container were it cannot do crap.

That doesn't help you when you've been stung by a zero-day exploit.

Funny one Vista defragger still lacks a Registry defragger.

It doesn't need one. The registry is a file. The regular defragger handles it.

So all the background defragging only helps with filesystem.

Where the fuck do you think the registry file is stored? (Hint: filesystem)

Vista still suffers from the 90 precent full drive issue were it cannot defrag until you are under 90 percent full. Ext4 defragger is being built to cope with that because that is about the only point ext3 starts fragmenting in the first place.

Don't complain about Vista, and then in the same breath tell me what some lame-ass Linux dev is GOING to do, maybe, possibly, sorta, crappy, maybe down the road to deal with it in Linux. That's simply beyond lame.

So please stop providing how much of a idiot and a troll you are. Please do you homework. Linux hater.

Coming from a guy who doesn't know where the registry is stored, I'd say you're the one who needs to start studying, punk.

I could pull the rest complete to bits listing all the other windows design flaws that make it unstable.

But you're too busy making stuff up as you go...

Linux does have a few but they are all avoidable windows I wish there was a way.

Oh, puh-lease. All avoidable. You know you're a zealot when you can't accept the reality that you can't handle all possible problems. Get some counseling or something. It might help.

luser said...

Dude, you're so much funnier when you're ripping us a new one than geeking out at a flamewar point by point.

Like, Miguel de Icaza links to your blog because of it.

Keep it up Hater.

Richard "KnobGobbler" Stallman said...

Linux sucks cus you have a thousand distros that don't work on every computer and there are computers for which none of them will work "out of the box" seems people have trouble with Ubuntu. I can accept that even tho it's been plain sailing for me. However in the last few days I have tried openSUCKS, Fagdora, BSD, Shitware, Knoppix and raw Debian etch AND THEY ALL SUCK FUCKING SHIT ON MY COMP. Ubuntu is the only dustro that comes close to allowing me to use my computer AND have a life where I don't have to spend 16hrs setting the stupid fucking thing up solely so it will cope with wireless internet. Here's a tip for all you Linux fagboys out there...I DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHY IT DOESN'T WORK, REALLY I DON'T. IF YOU WANNA CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT LINUX IS GOOD for the desktop THEN MAKE A GOOD FUCKING DISTRO THAT EVERYONE CAN USE WITHOUT HOURS OF FUCKING AROUND ON GOOGLE AND THE COMMAND LINE!!!!!!!! Ubuntu is the closest any distro has come for me, but with so many egotistical Lunix devs out there working only on the glamourous bits of code there are major holes in most distros that you could drive a truck thru and it is these same egotistical wankstains that are crippling Linux and keepin it at <3% of the market, altho how anything that is given away for free can have a market share is beyond me as a market implies that PEOPLE ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE SHIT you stupid CUNTFACES!@!!!!

Anonymous said...

Ehm... you all guys say that we are lusers but...i just want to let you know that...ehm...you have opened a BLOG...a BLOG, which is very popular and i'm happy for you because PROBABLY you get paid for doing this job right?....right?? NO?! Jesus Fucking Christ! O_O You call us lusers....and you spent all your free time opening a blog which doesn't do anything but throwing tons of shit about a S.O. that you hate...and that many people in the world doesn't care about?? I mean, guys Windows has just won...MIllion of PC run you prefered S.O....so why the fuck you still lose your time and breaking our fucking "luser" balls??!!! Do you have something call...uh...LIFE????? GIRL??? Something like that??? NO??? AH! Ok...nevermind.
Anyway, write what you want... i won't meet you and internet is a very (thank god) free place...and, first of all, this is your blog...but i suggest you to think about what i have said...you know...life, hang out with friend, girls!! Many of us, the so called lusers, have one of them...or all of three!
Bye... oh, just another thing...
FUCK YOU!

Anonymous said...

This is definitely worth a laugh or two (at Ubuntu's expense)...

Windows Update Vs Ubuntu Update
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=496

Anonymous said...

To all you freetards: mommy has a cold and wants her box of kleenex back

Anonymous said...

i reapet: GIRLS, FRIENDS, LIFE?!
they works well, guys, believe me.

Anonymous said...

dude this post is very good, thanks.

LIS said...

An anonymous freetard just exploded in frustration.
Funny stuff.

Was that a list of the stuff you'll get done when you finish fixing just one more thing?

Anonymous said...

Your blog is a revelation. Keep it up!

Anonymous said...

Wow. I must send the Guinness World Records guys an email because I think that's the longest version of "WORKS FOR ME!" that I've ever seen.

Owned. Totally.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous with the essay "Ehm... you all guys say that we are lusers but...i just want to let you know that...ehm...you have opened a BLOG...a BLOG" [..]

You should be grateful. Read the blog archives. He's pointing out flaws in the OS. Maybe if you spent time fixing them as opposed to whining about his blog, you'd actually get closer to the year of Linux on the desktop.

But hey, let's do not do that. There's crying to be done.

Also... using ellipses... too much is... really irritating.

afrooracle said...

Nice reply hater, just yesterday we had problems trying to run oracle with an php application in failbuntu. Goddamn, the 2 clicks in Windows, were hours of lurking forums and command typing in linux.

Peace... said...

Who pays you to say all this? Microsoft, Apple? Mr De Icaza? Are YOU Mr. De Icaza?

Write a book "how to piss 0.8% of the desktop market", or something like that.

Some of the remarks you sometimes make are relevant. But ranting, just for the sake of ranting is annoying.

Anonymous said...

I've never heard of this supposed problem of registry fragmentation, so out of curiosity I tried that defragmenter utility that somebody linked to above, on an XP system that has been *heavily* used almost every day for 2½ years.

Result - 2% fragmented, no action required. Sounds like it's about as big a problem as disk fragmentation, i.e. none.
I've heard some people complain about MBR fragmentation. Maybe, it's never affected me though.

Anonymous said...

Idiots. Microsoft has a registry defragger on there web site if you can find it. Not a third party malware infected 1. Hope no one else followed that link.

Number two registry fragments internally inside its own fileformat. So defraging the registry file on disk does not help you at all. It should be anti fragmenting internally.

Internal Registry fragmentation should not be happening full stop it should have automatic detection and correction of the issue. And why do user need to get a thrid party that is sitting hidden away on the Microsoft site. It really should have been shipped out to the OS. Why are you not protesting to Microsoft about this? Does not make any sence to be putting up with it when they have the tool prebuilt sitting there.

Sorry Linux secuirty system do prevent a lot of Zero day attacks. Now of course some distributions need to have there asses kicked over not providing up to stuff secuirty.

"Look, if malware takes advantage of a buffer overrun in Firefox" Sorry that is a distro issue. The secuirty exists to prevent that completely in linux. Buffer overflow attacks should completely fail on linux if the secuirty system is set up correctly. Working is sign system has been built weak. Same with all other OS's if there secuirty is built to snuff. That it works is sign of cross platform secuirty failures.

Now Ubuntu is one of the worst secuirty distributions out there.

"Recursively deleting all of the files in a user's home directory?"

Ok so you have never seen a secuirty distro in your live setup with delete and edit undo . Where all deletes and edits get cached for at least 24 hours. So against true secure linux distributions that kind of attack is a joke. Because the user just hits the undo button so much for all the damage.

You pay in hard drive space for protection here. So now to do damage not repairable by a 3 clicks you have to breach the OS secuirty.

Now Linux and windows both can offer protection around applications some exist in vista around IE because it cannot be trusted. Secure distributions do in the form of MAC controls so even if you breach firefox you can only damage what Firefox is ment to. Firefox does not need to delete or edit files other than ones it adds. Even then the rules for this can split part downloads from completed ones. Thank you for hacking nothing minor damage at most.

Question should have been why does the dirty trick work yet the same dirty trick does not work on windows when programs are shipped with a incomplete uninstaller. How malware gets left behind on windows without anyway to clean up. Linux we do have a last resort yes a hack but we do have that trick up our sleeves. Works against all Linux installers.

This is what I am getting at pound correctly. Attacking Linux as a whole is just a idiot at work.

Basically keep your mouth shut unless you really do know what you are talking about. It is more than overdue for people to find out how much secuirty there OS really should be giving them. Many Linux Distributions Windows and Mac are leaving everyone exposed to hell. So far everyone disputing me has proven to be a idiot to dangerous to everyone here. Don't try to defend the undefended. Take it on board and move forward to getting to a better world.

PS EXT4 is 3 months away from production release. Reiserfs 4 dont' have a clue when so would never use it in a compare. I am using its testing versions now I know exactly how its performing and have been doing compares. Yes far better than vista's solution. Heck the linux defragger shake is doing better than the vista solution. And it can be run in background too.

Anonymous said...

Final note NO OS IS PERFECT. Windows is also playing catch-up in secuirty and stability issues.

I will rip linux to shreds just like Windows. I have 100 percent no bias either way. If a OS has a flaw it deserves to be kicked hard there. Problem with windows is working on what flaw needs kicking hardest first.

Linux list can be nicely ordered.
xorg single threaded being fixed causing stacks of slow interface problems.
Big Kernel Lock in kernel causing major performance inconsistency also being fixed.
Solaris container tech need to complete being created.
Linux Distributions being shipped configured weak.
Combinded filesystem cache needed so all filesystem drivers don't have to have there own caches.
Single Network secuirty system like ADS for Linux need.
Single installation interface for all distributions.

Other stuff moves down to the less critical list. At least I can see all this stuff being worked on. Other than 1. Users forcing distribution to truly give them secuirty.

As with all fragmentation some people get lucky that there data moves avoid it. Its a rare person that avoids.

Anonymous said...

Quote (from a post above):

So, we point this out to them, and they misappropriate the old Ghandi quote ("First, they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win..."). Except, quite frankly, nobody has really left the laughing phase. We're still laughing at them. Nothing seems to compel anyone to rise to the level of actually fighting anybody. Linux is just that horrifically bad on the desktop. You can't even give it away for free.


This is not true.

As some of you know (e.g. have read some of the internal emails within Microsoft that have leaked to the web, e.g. through lawsuits), Microsoft (my former employer) is actively fighting linux/foss/etc. They really have a serious problem with linux and the like.

To me, linux has been like line noise but I am just glad that I am not part of their non-ethical "strategies" any more.

Bodhibuilder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bodhibuilder said...

Microsoft (my former employer) is actively fighting linux/foss/etc. They really have a serious problem with linux and the like.
This just shows that MS means business and the fact that they are number one player in the OS market did not put them to rest. They have their obvious flaws but are much more effective in setting them right. They would just like to take over the server market too, that's their only problem with Linux. But if they don't, they'll live. Unlike Linux.

Anonymous said...

http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Kernel_Release_Numbering_Redux
Please please comment on this comment:

If your modules were in-tree, then they would be updated for you.

If they're not in tree, the kernel devs' stance is clear - you're on your own.

So if you want help keeping up with internal changes, submit your stuff patch series for review. If you're doing some closed source modules, they explicitly discourage that, so don't expect any accommodations :)

Also, most of the sweeping changes (theoretically) ought to be done by -rc1, and be in the -next tree even before that - so you have plenty of time to prepare for the next release.


Haha I really enjoy the linux mood.

That's why Linux sucks.

Anonymous said...

Dude this blog is awsome! I mean relly awsome! Like it's all things I dont like abuot Linux but didnt know I didnt like... Linux actullay sux, and thats from a guy who hasnt touched a mac or windows machine in almost 10 years!

Jeff said...

I've actually like this blog, mostly, due to pointing out real weeknesses in Linux, and how it fails (or distros fail), in being a true platform that third parties to target.

For that, I hope this blog is a good slap in the face wake up call for distros, and the community in general, to try to be consistent and standardized, and not to fork unless there is a really really really compelling reason.

For that, kudos to Linux Haters blog.

But some of these rants have become quite silly and ridiculous - really grasping at straws, or overtly exaggeratting problems, or out and out lying.

Stuff like "it takes 10 weekends to set up Linux", while a sarcastic comment and clearly partially tongue in cheek, is way to much of an exaggeration.

It takes me at most a hour to install and fully set up Linux on my Dell laptop, and that's with an ATI video card and a broadcom wireless chip. YMMV, of course.

That's reality. Of course there are hiccups along the road. The wireless, at first, required a little bit of googling, but nothing like the nightmare exaggeratted on this blog.

I've done the same amount of Googling to solve Vista issues.

The most recent blogs have been like that.

Stick with a grain of truth. Don't exaggerate. Don't lie.

Otherwise the blog goes from biting, slap in the face commentary that's quite useful, to mere trolling, which is quite useless.

Christian said...

@jeff

Sadly, tell grandma to "Google" while she asks why she don't have any internet or why she can't watch youtube and you'll see that the year of desktop Linux still have yet to come...

Jeff said...

@christian

Grandma isn't going to install her own OS. She's going to use whatever came pre-installed with the computer she bought (Windows 90+ % of the time). And regardless of whether it's Windows, Mac, or Linux, if it's an OEM computer, everything will work 100% out of the box.

Now, if in the completely unrealistic scenario Grandma bought a computer without an OS, or decided to change her OS, she would have set up and configuration issues no matter which OS she used.

Heck, even Mac zealots reported issues when upgrading to Leopard. And these are Mac partisans, who are fairly technically inclined.

Personally, I've installed Windows at work, on many, many different machines, of all Windows designations, including Windows in different languages (installing Japanese Windows was particularly difficult). And in every case, there was some issue or another, and a lot of installing drivers, and tweaking this or tweaking that.

It's just the nature of the beast - installing an OS.

And all in all, some of the desktop oriented distros do a pretty good job of making this potentially complex tast fairly quick and painless (albeit not perfect, of course).

So your argument is completely irrelevent.

That said, Linux distros very badly need to standardize as much as possible, to make Linux a real platform, and an easier target for third parties, and thus a more attractive option for OEMs. And OEMing is the only way Grandma or Joe Sixpack is every going to use Linux.

And that's why I read Linux Haters Blog. It's a great slap in the face for the distros and devs and the community of Linux.

But I also like to keep it real - separate the wheat from the chafe - separate the truthful, biting commentary from the stupid trolling.

tutosun said...

I don't know where it comes your hate to Linux. I will tell you something. From my IT experience in big companies, I will NEVER recommend to run Windows Server on a machine. It simply CAN'T compare with a GNU/Linux server or FreeBSD.
Accept it: it is another league. Of course Windows Server (2000 and the better 2003) are good. But much better are GNU/Linux and FreeBSD.
In that perspective nothing that you say will change my opinion. I don't hate Windows. Simply, it is NOT better for servers.
On the desktop... well... it depends on everyone tastes.

Anonymous said...

I found this article realy entertaining. Great job :)

جمهوری دموکراتیک آریو said...

about viruses you said that you can keep your windows clean if you don’t install anything in IE and don’t open any attachment that outlook… I don’t even need to install any thing to burn my windows in hell of viruses. My friend comes to my house and give me you say a MP3 player or a webcam or a USB Flash disk and when i connect it to my USB port boooooooom!
Viruses come trough autorun.ini file in root directory of flash disk in to my PC and can do pretty much anything with my PC and all my documents.
Can please explain to us why and why microsoft did’nt disable autorun feathers of medias or at least just for USB Flash Disk? Why your hard drive partitions can have their own autorun.ini file? why windows didn’t lock hard-drive write commands in autorun applications to avoid viruses that wants to copy their content into hard drive? is this all about a cooperation between microsoft and hackers and even antivirus distributors to help themselves make money of peaple PC’s affected by just an autorun.ini file?
excuse me for my bad english writing. thanks.

Anonymous said...

"Then there is MS logs everyone forgets to clear also slowing the system down. Linux is smarter once log gets past a particular size its gets archived and a new log started. So the OS does not have to handle bigger and bigger files. For some reason windows does not have that basic idea."

Funny. My XP system has default log size limits after which it will overwrite the oldest entries. And the limits and behavior are configurable too!

Flavio said...

Your trolling is very funny, i think sometimes we need criticize everything and think out of the box in order to get better.

Just don't enter in this tedious retorts about which OS is better... better at what? everybody has different needs. For me Linux is the best choice.

landonab said...

I would be happy if my openSUSE, Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora...laptop would work when I connect an external monitor. I stuck an XP drive in my laptop last night, plugged in external monitor, pressed fn + crt keys and wow...it works. Resolution was correct even.

I don't hate linux, but I get damned frustrated by the rants around the community regarding how 'insert distro name' is ready to overtake the desktop market when something as simple as an external monitor will not work. Yes I know, I can fuck with xorg.conf and xrandr...but honestly, I do not have the time for that shit. I have a job, kids and some sort of life.

Anonymous said...

99% of 'problems' installing Linux distros will disappear if these people could just learn to Google and RTFM.

lrn2read, trolls.

Anonymous said...

We don't want to read to configure a damn monitor.

We don't want to read to have fonts that don't look like ass.

And you still don't fucking get this.

If you like your Linux kool-aid that's fine with me. Just stop telling me how "superior" your crappy system is.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous

Microsoft has a registry defragger on there web site if you can find it. Not a third party malware infected 1. Hope no one else followed that link.

Before we get into this, here's a little background. The existing Win2K/XP defragger can't defrag files (eg. the registry hive file) that are open for exclusive access. However, there's an easy solution for this: Simply run PageDefrag (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897426.aspx), and it will defrag the registry hive file on next boot.

Number two registry fragments internally inside its own fileformat. So defraging the registry file on disk does n iot help you at all. It should be anti fragmenting internally.

Your assertion is a load of crap. Look, every application (eg. database, spreadsheet, etc) causes fragmentation within a file, and there are diminishing returns associated with trying to maintain completely defragmented integrity. There is simply no way to guarantee that you're not going to fragment without using a ridiculous amount of buffered hard drive space -- and, even then, it's not a guarantee. So, stop pretending that it's academic. It ain't.

Internal Registry fragmentation should not be happening full stop it should have automatic detection and correction of the issue.

Rrrrright. Let's burn CPU cycles trying to detect a condition that's unpreventable through normal means.

And why do user need to get a thrid party that is sitting hidden away on the Microsoft site. It really should have been shipped out to the OS. Why are you not protesting to Microsoft about this? Does not make any sence to be putting up with it when they have the tool prebuilt sitting there.

First, it's not hidden. It took 2 seconds to find it. Second, it's a geek tool. The average person has no fucking clue what it does or why it's needed. No wonder you can't connect with regular users -- you simply don't understand them.

Sorry Linux secuirty system do prevent a lot of Zero day attacks. Now of course some distributions need to have there asses kicked over not providing up to stuff secuirty.

Emphasis on "lot". Meaning, "not all." That's great. I just love it when Linucks can't handle a zero-day attack targeting somebody's machine. How inconveeeeeeeeeeeeenient for you. http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=1485

Now Ubuntu is one of the worst secuirty distributions out there.

It's one of the most used, dumbass.

Ok so you have never seen a secuirty distro in your live setup with delete and edit undo . Where all deletes and edits get cached for at least 24 hours. So against true secure linux distributions that kind of attack is a joke. Because the user just hits the undo button so much for all the damage. You pay in hard drive space for protection here. So now to do damage not repairable by a 3 clicks you have to breach the OS secuirty.

I love how you qualify your statement with "true secure linux distributions". Which means not all of them. Didn't use a "true secure linux distribution"? Oh, well, you're fucked, luser. Thanks for the useless advice.

Now Linux and windows both can offer protection around applications some exist in vista around IE because it cannot be trusted. Secure distributions do in the form of MAC controls so even if you breach firefox you can only damage what Firefox is ment to.

What a fucking maroon. You completely ignored the point of my comment. Here's the way it works, dumbass. I'll speak slooooooooowwww do you don't miss it this time: Malware hijacks Firefox through a buffer overrun attack (yeah, tell me it can't happen, I could use another good laugh), malware enumerates all of the user's files below his home folder, malware posts the content of the files to some random website via a HTTP Post, malware author laughs at dumbass luser who thought he was "secure".

Firefox does not need to delete or edit files other than ones it adds. Even then the rules for this can split part downloads from completed ones. Thank you for hacking nothing minor damage at most.

You just don't get it. It just makes it that much easier to discount what you have to say.

How malware gets left behind on windows without anyway to clean up. Linux we do have a last resort yes a hack but we do have that trick up our sleeves. Works against all Linux installers.

How does malware get "left behind on windows? Oh, yeah, the user authorized it to run something malicious explicitly. Meaning, she gave consent. Stop blaming the OS for something that no OS defends against.

PS EXT4 is 3 months away from production release. Reiserfs 4 dont' have a clue when so would never use it in a compare. I am using its testing versions now I know exactly how its performing and have been doing compares.

Ergo, you're waving your midget dick in the breeze. You don't have a solution. So, stop pretending that you do.

Yes far better than vista's solution. Heck the linux defragger shake is doing better than the vista solution. And it can be run in background too.

Ooooooooh, if you SAY so...

Jerzyk said...

Did you even try compile with make and later make checkinstall.
So it's easy way to uninstall compiled programs on Linux.

Spaceoff said...

Linux DOES own less than 1% of the market but...
Less than 10% of windows users have heard of it.
And since its main usage is for programming, which makes up less than 1% of the PC market, Linux aint set to grow at an alarming rate any time soon.
Most people dont see linux as useful to them, because it aint yet, simply because commercial companies dont invest in it to make it better/make things for it.
Why? Well, because nobody uses it, so they wont get any money off it.
Its caught in that loop, and its not easy to get out of it.

But linux, as an idea, is the best thing that ever happened in computing.

CannedReviews said...

Man, you guys on this website are all assholes. Manu is right on everything and you pricks are all fucking morons.

your linux skills suck said...

look. if it takes you 10 weekends to set up linux, you have other issues than trying to save $300. you should probably just stick with windows. some people get linux and have no problems getting things to work, some don't/can't. all the hardware works on all my linux boxes that was working in windows. it's even faster to set up since i can push changes/scripts easily from one box to others. the problem is, someone gets some fancy pants laptop or desktop with no clue on the hardware's behavior in linux, then get frustrated. do your fucking research. get the hardware that fits into linux, not the other way around. i'm sure i could hook up a car receiver to windows vista but i'm sure i would get frustrated in the process. no different than people trying to get a webcam to work with adobe flash in linux and using unsupported hardware. all my hardware purchasing decisions are based on what's been documented as supported or working in linux. maybe that's why i have an easier time with linux. oh and i saved myself $300 on each box by switching to gei...er...linux.

trollfood said...

linux is inherently smarter

Myrth said...

Hi, i'm a bit confused, please explain this to me.

If I understand this correctly, your whole point of writing this blog is to help linux become a better platform by raising issues for public exposure so that they will be acknowledged and resolved.

Correct?

The purpose of the website, that you are so hilariously mocking, is to make more people to adopt linux.

More linux adoption means more fixes and problem resolutions, better hardware support and finally finding THE standard software baseline you're so fond of.

Now, if the main purpose is to make linux a better platform, why in the world would you try to undermine the efforts of the website that ultimately pursuing the same goal as you are?

Don't you think that by focusing on your means you have forgotten your initial and primary goal? Not seeing the forest behind the trees?

Roberto said...

Sir you are hillarious. I am a Linux distributor and I think your blog is just great. Dont ever change

Anonymous said...

You sir, are a FUCKING genious. I take my hat off to you!

Anonymous said...

excellent! :)

Anonymous said...

What a crappy argument is this:

"Wow. I must send the Guinness World Records guys an email because I think that's the longest version of "WORKS FOR ME!" that I've ever seen." ?
Well if you don't deny that linux is better in that subject (the way it's easier to install) than it must be true!

For whom may concern, to uninstalling software that has been installed with "make install" just do "make clean" or "make distclean" in the folder you did "make install".

Lunix sucks! I recommend windows! Please ppl don't use lunix! Run from linux like the devil from the cross! Run for your health!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

warjoy said...

It's all mess.Linux is unix and Windows and MacOs (despite of of the pretence) are not .This the point!
The rest is silence.

Gordo said...

This blog makes baby Jesus cry.

Gordo

Anonymous said...

Linux Hater takes the piss, that much I get and thats fine. The world needs piss-takers.

But seriously, it's like an invasion of the Webmongs on here!

Anonymous said...

@your linux skills suck:

Wow, you base your hardware purchases on what Linux supports? And you actually think that makes you "cool" or "smart"? You're not only stupid, but you're delusional as well.

Go ahead and deprive yourself of things you'd want or need because your shit-ass choice of OS doesn't support them. Just hope that your next distro update doesn't fuck up its compatibilty with your beloved kDong (or gDong, as the case may be)...

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