Wednesday, July 16, 2008

The fallacy of choice

I'm sure by now I don't really have to describe in detail this phenomenon: Whenever you criticize a luser about his choice of OS, he'll inevitably come back with, "at least it gives me choices." Choice in window manager, choice in terminal application, choice in file manager, choice in desktop environment, choice in kernel version, you name it.

This "choice", as loudly as it is trumpeted, is a key reason that Linux has not made it on the desktop. Let me attempt to show you why.

Every argument for "choice" is usually accompanied by a statement along the lines of, "there are many different kinds of users that prefer different choices, therefore we need to support all of them." In terms of distribution of choices, given 10 choices, this statement implies the following type of distribution.

In other words, ten equal choices with ten roughly equal-sized groups each preferring a different choice. For some limited version of the world, this may be true (for example, existing people who are FOSS users already, fighting amongst themselves). But if you look at the general population at large, I claim a different picture emerges:

Here, the blue represents the people who don't care about a particular choice, and actively do not want to have to make a choice. They just want things to work. They will take "working" over "choice" in an instant. They essentially want the developers to make choices for them.*

Linux and FOSS so far have optimized for the former picture of the world, not the latter. In doing so, they've concentrated on inserting abstraction layers and decoupled mechanisms at every layer of the stack: kernel, graphical toolkit, command line shell, terminal program, text editor, office suite, window manager, desktop environment, sound system, etc. etc.

In adding choice after choice, Linux moves farther and farther from what the mainstream user wants.

Furthermore, any developer will tell you that each time a new layer of "choice" is added, the possible number of configurations multiplies. This means more untested configurations, more bugs, and more brokenness. Not necessarily due to incompetence of developers, but rather simply due to the sheer number of configurations that are possible.

So not only does the addition of so many choices alienate would be users, it also makes it difficult for developers to create tested, working configurations. It's a double whammy. Obsession with providing choice it every level actively works against efforts that would otherwise push Linux to provide what the mainstream wants.

Look at OSX. The amount of choice you have in OSX is minuscule compare to what you get with Linux. Yet, do you see the majority of mac users complaining? Look at the internet, look at how IE still has a huge market share. People like to think that it's because people don't know any better and that they need to be educated. My experience says otherwise. People don't care. They want what works for them. For the vast majority of cases IE works for people. It may not be optimal, but people just don't care.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Even current lusers don't want choice between two or more options that are broken. They want a working baseline, and then they want to be able to make all the choices they personally care about. Unfortunately, there are very few projects that are concentrated on developing this working baseline. Instead they usually try to build one small piece of the puzzle, then make it interface with as many other parts in numerous and useless ways.

Let's look at the server side. Why does Linux succeed here? One of the big reasons is that there is a working baseline. Everyone knows what it's called: LAMP. If in doubt, start with LAMP. Yes, there are still other options. Different webservers, different databases, different programming languages, even different OS'es (WIMP anyone?). The point is that if you don't want to make any of these choices, and instead you want a proven base starting point, you have one.

Unfortunately on the desktop side, no such "non-choice" choice exists. In addition, there are many more pieces that need to work together to provide a friendly experience. What is the LAMP of the desktop? Whatever it is, it's going to have a lot more letters. I claim it still doesn't exist. Everyone disagrees what the desktop should be. Everyone wants choice. Everyone except the mainstream users that the desktop is supposed to be built for.


* In some sense, distros try to do this. But this fails for a few reasons. 1) There are too many distros. 2) Distros aren't the ones with the expertise to make the right choices.

300 flames:

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Anonymous said...

Yet here is the funny one. Linux Standard Base is the core project merging it all. You completely missed that too its not just Lamp why Linux is good in server. Its that commercial applications install very will for web server due to the Linux Standard Base.

The argument you just gave is the exactly argument that started Linux Standard Base in 2001. Yet from the start this project was decided not to be forked because it would do more harm than good.

When you have a 1000+ way split merging unfortunately takes time. Server side stuff was done first. Only desktop was started being worked on in the Linux Standard Base in the last 3 years. Changes in the next LSB will see another change. Become part of the solution not the problem. By clearly and truthfully documenting what we have to fix. Rehashing stuff Linux Standard Base is already working on is pointless trolling.

You percent is out way out. People running non IE web browsers tell us that. Its basically 30 percent of the market at this stage and growing. Might correctly the graphic Linuxhater to show the truth instead of creating a new myth.

Use the truth not lies.

Anonymous said...

I take back everything I said. I'm an idiot...

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry for all the trouble I have caused, I can't control myself, therefore all future postings from me should be considered null and void, I have autism/adhd/add/etc, I beat my cock to richard stallman every night.

*takes his os and goes home*

Anonymous said...

Mainstream, mainstream,

I don't think that "mainstream" is the target group of this whole GNU and/or Linux development.

The target group is the woman or man who has the knowledge to "choose". The target group is the group which gives value to "freedom" -in the sense of Free Software- . You can like this fact or not, but in some time and way we have to make it clear, that if you value your freedom _and_ you can educate yourself to some degree where you can make choices about the software and hardware platforms you want to use _then_ GNU/Linux is for you.

And not for some "mainstream".
There are other social groups who make the choice to _not_ open themselfs to "mainstream". Punks, Heavy Metal gals and guys, the Gothic scene and also the "real" hackers - about whom we normal computer users read only in the newsletter in direct connection with the FBI - all these are groups who _do not_ want to be mainstream. This is their choice and god dammit it is their fucking right to make this choice to close up to the fuckers out there because they do not understand what Punk or Metal is about.

I don't want the mainstream to come to Linux. Because they don't understand.
Will Linux be stopped developing when the mainstream - and with it all the magazines and podcats and web-sites - stop reporting? NO.
Even GNU/Herd is actively developed today. Okay, the development is slow, and it is making not so much "bling bling". But this is good. You don't get overcrowded by pissed on brains who scream all day "We want to click here and we want to click there because we are too stupid to even write a line on the terminal".

In the not so distant future we will see that developers will go to the side line operating systems because there they get the silence to develop what they want. Not what a fucking crowd of mainstream with shitful of brain wants them to develop.

Anonymous said...

Anon #1:

You miss the point -- why should it take 3 years to create the LAMP of the desktop? The AMP in LAMP represent a reasonably-good-of-breed (not necessarily best-of-breed) that are known to work together. Surely by now you've figured that out.

Anonymous said...

I could be wrong here, but I think the previous LSB argument can be summed up with this one post:

http://www.unixtutorial.org/2008/03/find-out-linux-version-using-lsb/

DamnRight said...

So by your account, LSB is 7 years old, and actively working on the desktop problem since three. Dunno if you noticed, but the situation is getting worse, not better. So, at best, LSB is doing jack shit, which is absolutely obvious to anybody not drinking the Kool-aid. The only mild progress in that area is due to some dude throwing a few millions of his own money at the problem. And of course it doesn't solve the problem itself, which is lack of killer apps. Standardize all you want (if you can, and you apparently can't), you're still stuck with pretty mediocre stuff, with devs who seem to ignore crucial feature requests on purpose. Of course everything is just a week, a patch, a recompile away. It's really not that hard to grasp, but still ...

Anonymous said...

Mainstream anonymous you are a tard.

How can you have "The year of Linux on the desktop" (TM) if you don't have Linux go mainstream??

Whoops, someone's not thinking

FanningTheFlames said...

Hey LH,

These FOSS guys make it so easy to pick on them.
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png

Check the first reply to this here:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=248171

I swear you can't make this shit up!

Alexei said...

Mainstream anonymous - that's exactly why Linuxes (as in "more then 1 OS") will never get out of their basement 3%

Alexei said...

FanningTheFlames - hilarious! :))
Thank you for the link.

Anonymous said...

What lusers can't understand is that some people, myself included, are willing to put up with a lot of Microsoft bullshit just because Windows works with no problems MOST OF THE TIME. Yet, lusers believe that the world revolves around them and people use Windows out of pure idiocy.

Show me something better than Windows and I'll switch in a moment. You already claim to be better than Windows yet the whole FOSS world is a mess: Linux sound, package management, wireless and video drivers, webcam support, professional publishing/audio/video tools, IDEs, sane desktop environments - they're all jack shit or non-existent.

Blow me, you basement dwelling retards!

Anonymous said...

IE is fucking pathetic and doesn't deserve any market share. It is shipped with Windows which is why it has a market share in the first place. Horribly insecure and should be declared a virus. Use a real browser retards.

Anonymous said...

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/ProjectPlan40 This is the next part of the project due in November.

Its not doing jack. Problem has been massively complex. Most people don't notice that in 2001 You could not be even sure that installed applications would show up when you changed windows manager.

Movement of the LSB(Linux Standard Base) Has been slow can careful.

What is the point of a Killer application if you are fragmented across 1000 distrobutions.

You have to clean up mess then worry about killer application don't worry few are planed and being developed.

Anonymous said...

Isn't LSB based on Qt? Everyone knows that Qt sucks. I'll start my own LSB based on GTK.

Choice!

Anonymous said...

Good God, I've heard about how problematic Linux audio is, but to think that it's that messed up. What's worse are the comments:

"Oh Noes! You mean I have choices of how to handle audio on my linux boxes?!"

"What is all this FUD about? [...] You can staticly compile them into the flash plugin.
Pick you choise and quit whining."

DamnRight said...

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/ProjectPlan40 This is the next part of the project due in November.

Or later, or never. Anyway, it only took 10 years. Whew! What will this accomplish exactly once it's done, around 2011 or so?

Movement of the LSB(Linux Standard Base) Has been slow can careful.

Sure. Check out this article, by the FOSS hater that writes glibc:

http://udrepper.livejournal.com/8511.html

What is the point of a Killer application if you are fragmented across 1000 distrobutions.

You don't get it, and probably never will. That's fine.

You have to clean up mess then worry about killer application don't worry few are planed and being developed.

I'm sick of your bullshit peddling. Show me the code, show me the project pages, show me the alpha builds, show me the competent project managers, show me a modicum of sanity, show me a viable business model, show me some restraint on fucking up everything due to petty ego issues, and most of all show me satisfied users doing something with them, not geeks fiddling. So far you have vague promises, as always. But it will come, I swear! You just need to enable it with some CLI magic!

Anonymous said...

Linux audio problematic? LOLZ!

Wait till you use one of the BSD's. The real looser here is you.

Anonymous said...

It's becoming increasingly apparent: You don't hate Linux. You love it. You want to save it.

You might hate the "freetards", but only because they might ruin what you love so much.

This is really the Linux Lover's Blog. A game of affection and rejection maybe, but by no means hate.

Actually, you're not just loud and insightful, you're also quite sweet. Keep it up!

Anonymous said...

darmright. Look at openoffices downloads for Linux over the years. Each progression of LSB has seen its packaging simplify. Today with LSB 3.2 its only 2 files for all distributions out there.

The end to all what you keep on complaining about should be sometime in 2009. With the LSB after 4.0.

LSB 4.0 is basically the end of the current distribution model. Where you will be free to get applications from third parties. Where developers can start providing packages for desktop use for everyone. Some distributions will see and take this onboard and become package providers for other distributions as well.

Now ask yourself truthfully what would be the greatest feature that Linux could provide to the business world desktops. Answer that and you have what is up sleeve. Projects are out there its not my job to find them for you. Also not my job to tell you so you can beat me to the punch.

How hard to you think its really to make cli usage disappear for good from Linux. That is not even a complex task. It has been done in the past if you look back. Yet due to unstable state it died. This is exactly what I am getting on about. We cannot develop killer features and keep them alive while Linux is fragmented badly. LSB 4.0 is the start and a end.

Linuxhater will have to start eating his words one day. Its closing in.

Anonymous said...

Ps That time issue udrepper found was in the Linux Kernel itself currently being repaired. It was outside the Linux Standard Bases control. So Linux Standard Base told him to do the only thing they could to run the tests.

No point use a old out of date document to protect ones ass.

Anonymous said...

^ Speaking of the CLI. I'm still waiting for improvements. Where is the consistency? When are the commands going to pass the output as objects rather than plain-text?

Platypus said...

Another reason for this excess of choice is that often nobody can make a choice stick. Developer A wants things to work this way, Developer B wants it to work that way, neither can overrule the other so it ends up being yet another option among thousands in the application's crowded config dialog or (more often) cryptic and uniquely-structured config file. I've seen both KDE and GNOME partisans bash each other over this pattern, always seeing the mote in another's eye but never the beam in their own.

Then Developer B is still upset that Developer A's option is the default, so he forks the code and now you have two almost but not quite identical apps. Even better, right? :rolleyes:

Anonymous said...

If you don't like Linux, don't use it!

DamnRight said...

wow, the anonymous comments really are top-notch today.

Anonymous said...

I am the one who above made the point that GNU/Linux doesn't need the "mainstream".

Some commenters have asked then how the GNU/Linux developers/development should ever reach higher marketshare or the Linux year of desktop.

My answer to that:
I hope that Linux never ever reaches some "year of Desktop" or "year of Server" or any other market / marketing / Bullshitbingo kind of goal.

At this moment I am in the process of fully migrating to OpenBSD - my desktop, my (few) server processes , even my games (some Java based games like Megamek) - ... Why?

Because there I will find the Zen like silence without those "mainstream" idiots

who first scream that they want all the things the M$ way

and then after the devels of GNOME/KDE make it in M$ way come screaming and whining that GNOME/KDE devels are stupid who can only copy closed propriatary developments.


I really hope that GNU/Linux devels stop going after any marketshare and let the people come to them - because then it is guaranteed that only the interested and open minded people will come -.

Full stop.

LIS said...

@anon
So you're Claiming that the entire FOSS movement was made for your own entertainment, and other peoples' opinions do not matter to you? Fine, tell that to DARPA (who funded freeBSD), RedHat, Canonical and Novell, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to continue creating the free software stack (as poorly and mismanaged as it is), only to cater to your elitist, nose up your ass attitude.

Software without users dies, always.

Now go and lock yourself in a cave with your collection of dildos. Maybe than you'll find the "Zen like silence" you seek.

Anonymous said...

Wow, can't believe this guy is actually leaving Linux just because he doesn't feel special anymore since he feels Linux is becoming popular.

Well, at least you're dumping Linux, so good for you (and your little java games).

bahaha

Anonymous said...

@lis:

But take a good look at HOW these companies really make their money.
a) With targetting the screaming boys from M$ land
or
b) With targetting the "silent" and "easy" professionals / scientists who want to use and operate their servers / super-computers.


All this shitty growing of screaming at developers and contributers of distributions began as the M$ crowd found its way to Linux land.

Look at the users mailing lists of OpenBSD. All the screaming/whining shitheads don't make it long there.
All the users of OBSD are cool and knowledged people who will find their way of using OBSD even if their help request is somewhat ignored - as no one can make help for everyone -.

I did not say that RedHat should not make Billions. But they do it without this forever pissing crowd of Excel and "Multimedia" users.
RedHat's customers are in the serverspace.

And do not tell me that an OS without "users" is dead. Fucking stupid FUD!
Plan9 is actively developed. But they don't have these "users" who just demand out of their ass that the Plan9 devs should make the "desktop" like some ${marketleader}.
Plan9 is not dead.
In just the same way you can see it for OpenBSD or NetBSD. All actively developed OS. But without those "users".

We don't need them.

And if you are some of those who just want to demand that a KDE developer should press your GayTunes(TM) into the KDE system then we don't need you, too.

Anonymous said...

> Wow, can't believe this guy is actually > leaving Linux just because he doesn't
> feel special anymore since he feels
> Linux is becoming popular.

I am not "leaving" Linux land because I want to fell special.

I have really, _really_ , REALLY enough of all those "voices" in the Internet who chit and chat and shit and scat to bring some developer - who works for "nothing" and only for his own needs - to implement their propriatary desktop (functionality) one to one into the Free Software space. And then if they don't get it then again to chit and chat and shit and scat.


In the days as only the experienced and knowledged users cvs co-c-m-mi'ed their "desktop" - containign of the console+Emacs - we had a way better community.

And now we have LH.
And because there is no OpenBSD haters blogspot I am "leaving" the Linux land.

Understand?

Bodhibuilder said...

I don't think that "mainstream" is the target group of this whole GNU and/or Linux development.
Yeah, you don't but the rest of these dreaming about "Linux egdes one step closer to world domination", "year of the linux desktop", saying how Linsux is easy and Widows ackward, MS hating free software wankers do. Tell that to Stallman himself, who longs for the World without proprietary software. If all lusers where like you, there would be no irrational hype, no misleading propaganda, ultimately no reason to start this blog or participate in it. Most of the haters here are people who fell for this Foss indoctrination and lost their time and temper on Linux. Not because they're stupid, but because it wasn't what it was promised to be. Why isn't there BSD hater's blog? Even if somebody tried BSD and didn't find it suiting his needs there were certainly no broken hopes, no resentment, because it wasn't advertised as The Eight Wonder of The World!
Most of you are just like Mormons/Jehova's Witnesses/Catholics or some other cult who go around trying to force their bullshit dogma on you, annoying the crap out of everybody and then wondering why everybody hates them. "Ah, yes, it's probably 'cause we're the Chosen Ones who fight the great evil."

Markus said...

To the first anon guy who said "Linux Standard Base " will solve this I have a simple question:

Does this LSB change anything in Xorg? Yes or no.

The answer is easy, and the implications of this answer are easy too.

LIS said...

BodhiBuilder summed it up quite well.
We fell for false advertisement, wasted time and effort, and got bitten, hard.

If FOSS has been a commercial entity, it could be sues for deceit, false advertisement, not providing advertised service, etc.

Since FOSS is not a commercial entity, but a non profit organization and ideological movement, it may not be sued.
Maybe it can be shut down, like scientology center and other deceiving cults around the world.

Enjoy using BSD. I'll got listening to the Bee Gees on my Gaytunes cassette player.

Tristan said...

I've been reading this blog with some amusement for a few weeks, and finally a post that I can wholeheartedly agree with. Bravo, Linux Hater.

As the Gnome people have been saying for years, picking sensible defaults and making choices for people doesn't hinder anyone (apart from uber-geeks), it just makes life easier.

Now if only we could apply this same thinking to the distribution space, the Linux world would become a much better place.

(N.B. if this post sounds sarcastic, it's not -- I'm deadly serious)

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand your rambling. You're migrating to OpenBSD because it's pure and uber, is that it?

Markus said...

"Why isn't there BSD hater's blog?"

Four reasons.

(1) Many of the problems in the Linux world will be valid for BSD as well. Take Xorg for example. Both Linux and BSD depend on it (or lets say "indirectly" if you want a "desktop" version. That of course includes KDE and Gnome since they depend on Xorg as well).

(2) You can not modularize BSD as much and as easy as a "Linux" system. This is in fact one of the very very few advantages Linux has. You take some good ideas together and create a new distribution. Sure, you will have a hard time to gain new people because they are lazy and tend to use the big established distributions. But this possibility still exists, it just requires a lot of work.

(3) There are not many Linux users compared to Windows users. But there are about 50 Linux users for 1 FreeBSD user. So the number of people that know FreeBSD is really really really miniscule. Which leads me to point 4

(4) With so few people using BSD*s and Linux attracting newbies much more likely (while unfortunately leaving behind the "powerusers") means that there is much more to hate in Linux world than in BSD. Not because BSD is so much better, but because noone is using BSD. ;)

Haos said...

"In the days as only the experienced and knowledged users cvs co-c-m-mi'ed their "desktop" - containign of the console+Emacs - we had a way better community."

And they werent forcing every living being around to "switch to Ubuntu koz its betta and kewl, while M$ suxxorz".

Yeah, i can second to that.

kiszony said...

IMO most of the people that use Linux are people that use it because it's free as in beer not free as in freedom. It's either because they can't afford MS or can't use pirated MS software.
Linux devs should concentrate on making the linux experience better for those people not concentrate on making it better for their stupid freetard religion.
And there's also one thing that I don't understand. Lusers want Linux to rule the world and become mainstream, on the other hand, they don't because Linux is supposed to be for "users enough intelligent to choose". So... make your choice, people!

Anonymous said...

Dude, you have one GOOD BLOG. I am so sick and tired of hearing all the lusers bragging about how cool it is to use a crap operating system because it is "cool".

There only one difference between Apple and FSF actually. The first hypes what it has. The second hypes about what it would have liked to have.

Anonymous said...

//This is their choice and god dammit it is their fucking right to make this choice to close up to the fuckers out there because they do not understand what Punk or Metal is about.//

A little unrequited Goth angst, have we?

Anonymous said...

//IMO most of the people that use Linux are people that use it because it's free as in beer not free as in freedom//

Please ... either explain what "free as in beer" means or stop using that retarded expression. Any beer I've ever drank came at some expense.

neus said...

Another "I love MAC" zeolatry post ... WAY TO GO MACTARDS - see i can make up idiotic words too!

I mean this started as a "good" blog with some quite good thoughts, now is just Mac propaganda.

You're even contradicting yourself ... you say the typical reaction of "freetards" against a negative opinion is to come and defend linux ... but look at the blog now, YOURE FUCKING DOING THE SAME WITH MAC. AHAH

I mean ... its such an irony that im literally laughing my ass off on the floor at this idiocracy.

You rant about "freetards" and their FOSS thinagajicky but you know where your precious Mac OS got its UNIX roots dont you ? BSD IS FUCKING FOSS YOU MACTARD!

I mean ... Mac OS constantly rapes FOSS software, be it the BSD stack, Webkit, Mach or CUPS, THEYRE ALL FOSS YOU FUCKING MACTARDS! AAAAAAAAAHAHAAH

MACTARDS MACTARDS MACTARDS SUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Come say with me ... WOINK WOINK WOINK!

Anonymous said...

neus, linuxhater already posted something about Mac OS X using open source software in here. The difference between Mac OS X and Linux or *BSD is OS X just works, and the other pure open source systems doesn't.
Relax yourself.

Anonymous said...

"IMO most of the people that use Linux are people that use it because it's free as in beer not free as in freedom. It's either because they can't afford MS or can't use pirated MS software.
Linux devs should concentrate on making the linux experience better for those people not concentrate on making it better for their stupid freetard religion.
And there's also one thing that I don't understand. Lusers want Linux to rule the world and become mainstream, on the other hand, they don't because Linux is supposed to be for "users enough intelligent to choose". So... make your choice, people!"


one of the advantages of freedom is the freedom to disagree. just because people use the same OS doesn't mean they all agree. I know Mac users who hate Ipods and the other I* crazes with a passion. similarly, not all linux communities (or even people within a single community) agree on this subject and even then it isn't as black and white as you make it seem.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous: "Yet here is the funny one. Linux Standard Base is the core project merging it all.

Look, dickweed, if the LSB can get its shit together and actually "finish" what it started 7 years ago, you may have a point. But that doesn't look like it's anywhere near completion. So, thank you for playing...

You completely missed that too its not just Lamp why Linux is good in server. Its that commercial applications install very will for web server due to the Linux Standard Base."

It has nothing to do with LSB, it has to do with the LAMP server apps actively standardizing their own install points. LAMP server apps were popular before LSB was even a wet dream.

You percent is out way out. People running non IE web browsers tell us that. Its basically 30 percent of the market at this stage and growing. Might correctly the graphic Linuxhater to show the truth instead of creating a new myth

No, it's actually somewhere around 19% of the market, so LH isn't far off. Try to understand this: Downloading Firefox doesn't mean using Firefox. Plenty of people downloaded it to kick the tires, but it's not at all clear whether they're actually using it.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9106058

Anonymous said...

@anonymous: "Please ... either explain what "free as in beer" means or stop using that retarded expression. Any beer I've ever drank came at some expense."

Methinks you're focusing on the wrong details. If you want to blame anybody for that "retarded expression", go blame the original retard (Richard Stallman) who said,"Think free software, not free as in beer." He was drawing a distinction between software as religion versus a software as a commodity that is distributed au gratis. And, you see, the only reason that it's necessary to have this distinction is that freetards tend to confuse the term "free" solely with "freedom".

TArbex said...

Maybe Ubuntu is quite low on choices isn't it? There must be a whole set of choices so people don't get dependent of others choices but if you don't want to choose just grab a distro that don't let you. I don't really know Ubuntu but I can say that Sabayon is a quite limited distro when it come to choices and have a lot of stuff ready to go inside it. I just use gentoo that only install what I want the way I want even if it's a bit complicated. But I'm really good on IT so it's not a problem.

wingrunr21 said...

I find that sometimes open source software includes more "choices" simply because they can. For instance, on any given Linux machine there are about a dozen ways to browse the web. The new Songbird project is including a web browser in the media player. I ask why. Songbird, being based on Mozilla, is a sibling to Firefox. Why would you build full web browsing capability into a media player when that very player's cousin is considered to be one of the best browsers out there? It is a waste of time and resources. Loading web content, sure I can see that. Integrating with SHOUTcast or last.fm, awesome. Making it so I can browse ebay while creating my playlists, not so awesome. Open source software really needs to figure out that before they add feature bloat they need to get the core target of their software working in its proper manner.

Anonymous said...

i agree with linux hater. there are many ways to actually offer choice to give the people "freedom" and still offer a starting package that works. DE try to accomplish this but their constant obsession with adopting new packages and dropping old ones prevents any consistency between applications. linux is aiming at mainstream. that is the entire point of mobile market that linux is trying to penetrate. Make all the abstractions you want but make sure that atleast one configuration of that abstraction works (almost) flawlessly, consistently. Have 5 different package formats, to offer people choice, but make sure one format is supported by everyone so that an average user doesn't have to think about what to download when he hits the internet to find an application to be productive. Windows has .exe, OSX has .dmg, linux can have one too. ISVs that way can also provide one format and know that everyone in linux can install the format.
I also agree with another post by lh that said that developers should provide binaries. Upstream should provide binaries for atleast the mainstream architectures. That way tons of time fixing bugs in individual distros will be saved and more progress can be made. Tons of time can be saved by just compiling before you release. I am not saying stop providing source, just also provide binaries.

Jeff said...

Choice sucks.

I hate having to choose which car to buy. It's too friggin' confusing. I want one car, say, a Toyota Camry, and all other types of cars should just fuck off. They only confuse people. Cars are really complex, and having choice only creates driving chaos (and makes the roads more dangerous).

I just bought an HD TV. Boy, was it every confusing to have to choose between a Plasma, LCD, or Rear projection. I hated that. It was pure hellish chaos. It was hellishly confusing. And all the goddam brands - Vizio, Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, and on and on and on. That was horrible.

And having to choose what cereal to eat in the morning - don't even get me started. I just want to have my fucking breakfast, goddamit, and not be bothered with all these confusing choices. Breakfast and chaos just don't mix. My breakfast should "just work". Just give me goddam Cherrios and be done with it.

My wife hates choice too. She has to choose between shopping on Amazon or EBay or CraigsList. It's overwhelming for her - so fucking confusing. And buying clothes for our daughters - Gap, Kohls, Old Navy ... ugh - too many choices. There should be only one generic clothes for kids. Too many choices makes it too confusing for us hard working parents.

Choice is evil.

Choice is evil for computers too. Mac can fuck off, as can Linux. There should only be Windows Vista, and no goddam Server 2008, no XP, no "Professional". Everyone should just use Vista, and be done with it. Fuck special business editions, or Server oriented crap. Vista is absolutely perfect for EVERYTHING!. And all the computer brands - Keep Dell, and get rid of all the rest those fucking idiots- HP, Lenovo, Acer, Gateway, ASUS - they can all go to hell, and they're duplication of effort. There's just too much chaos in the market - what fucking computer do you buy??? And I want only one goddam graphics card - just pick Nvidia or ATI, and be done with - otherwise, having the choice just fucks up your video, right?

Fuck choice, especially all that fucking choice in the Linux world.

People are just too fucking stupid to handle choice, right LinuxHater???

Anonymous said...

I choose to ignore jeff personally, because he's a cock

Jeff said...

But don't you hate choice?

Having to choose which DE to use? Forget it.

Clearly, my previous post was tongue in cheek.

But hopefully, it pointed out the ridiculousness of the stance of "choice only confuses computer users". That idea is actually quite condescending to so called "regular users". It's demeaning to their intelligence.

People actually love choice. I loved researching Plasma, LCD, rear projection, and comparing Sharps to Vizios, and so on.

But people are sort of conditioned to fear choice in computers, and the software they use. Having to choose which desktop environment to use? Too confusing. Having to choose which media player to use. Too confusing.

So called "regular users" should not be conditioned to fear their computers. They can handle it. If they can handle the dizzying array of cell phones, and cell phone options, they can handle the choice of OS, DE, or media player.

That said, of course a bit of standardization in the Linux world is long over due, particularly with internal platform bits - the kernel, glibc, GTK libs, shells, filesystems, and so on. There needs to be a solid, reliable core for ISVs and OEMs to target.

neus said...

neus, linuxhater already posted something about Mac OS X using open source software in here. The difference between Mac OS X and Linux or *BSD is OS X just works, and the other pure open source systems doesn't.
Relax yourself.


Have you EVEN used Mac OS ? Good luck trying to use and/or develop Java in that thing ... And dont even get me started on monitor support, i have had a dual monitor setup for years on Windows, even on Linux - with its crapstatic dual head support - have been running flawlessy. Then i tried, i say tried, to use a second monitor on my iBook and godmaned .. it refused to even show up a fucking picture.

Maybe it was my monitor but if Mac OS is the "just works" utopia everybody tries to sell, why didnt it just FUCKING work ?

And ditto for the fiber adapter ... i had to buy a damn adapter made by Apple, cause god forbid if we use hardware from other manufacturers, just to access the network.

Even my Lexmark printer wich was, suposedly made for Mac OS, fails to properly work.

And dont even remeber me the PPC->x86 transition days, when 90% of Fink rep didnt work in x86 and i had to fscking port every lib myself just to get some work done.

So just fucking quit that "it just works" bulllshit, that only happens in the fairy world of "Made By Apple".

Fucking MACTARDS ... Maybe i just should go and create a Mac OS Haters Blog and spew crap from my rectum and watch in glee all the mactards getting pissed of whatever i say that is not in the Bible of Steve Blowjobs.

MACTARDS .... SUUUUUEYYYYYYYYYYYYY

OINK OINK OINK ...

Anonymous said...

Time for Linux to die. All Linux hackers should go help ReactOS instead, the Free Opensource Windows. No more writing 3D video card driver. Just use the one release on Windows. Total compatibility with Windows (once completed). Easy to use. Familar to the new users. ReactOS is the future for Open Source. Linux is teh fail. Epic failure.

Bodhibuilder said...

Neus: I'd like to see MAC OS Haters blog
Fairy (Eric Idle): And so you shall:

http://www.applehaters.com/

Anonymous said...

Jeff's examples fails. If you were to choose any random product out of his examples all of them would still fulfill their broader purpose. IE, if you pick any random car you can still get from point A to point B. If you pick any random cereal you still get your breakfast. This is not the case for picking software or Linux distros.

Anonymous said...

@Jeff: "Choice sucks. I hate having to choose which car to buy. It's too friggin' confusing. I want one car, say, a Toyota Camry, and all other types of cars should just fuck off. They only confuse people. Cars are really complex, and having choice only creates driving chaos (and makes the roads more dangerous)."

What a douche. The reason that choice is an issue is that consumers REALLY don't know what the fuck to buy. They know the "prestige brands" (eg. BWM, Sony, Jaguar, Apple, IBM, etc), but it's really about brand association, not really understanding the underlying technology that each brand offers. So, they go with a brand that they feel familiar with (eg. Toyota Camry), something that their friends buy, something that a relative that they trust recommended to them, etc. Ask anybody about the engine in their car, or what features are present in their TV, and you'll get a blank, dumb stare. They just don't FUCKING KNOW or CARE. It all becomes a marketing game. Once they pick the brand, the dealer or manufacturer has already prepackaged everything that they would want into varying tiered packages; if they want more granular detail, the dealer tells them that they're going to have to pay through the nose to get that kind of choice, so few people do.

Now, let's move on to the subject of choosing a computer. Same deal. People don't know what they're getting. They don't know how to translate any of the technical specifications into "I want to play a movie" or "I want to download music" or "I want to play a game". It's all about brand recognition and pre-configuration. When it really comes right down to it, unless you're building your own computer, you're really not getting a whole lot of choice, even if you get to pick some of the components. You can't arbitrarily mix and match processors, memory, and hard disk space. And Dell doesn't even support Linux on most of its notebooks, so choice is really kind of illusory, because most customers don't have the time or inclination to figure out how to translate choices into the tangible tasks they want to perform. So, they buy the prepackaged product, and they just make it work for them. They don't fret or whine or wring their hands about it ("Oh! The lack of freedom, it burrrrrrrrrrnsssss..."

Desktop Linux doesn't have a prayer. There isn't any brand recognition (Ubuntu? WTF? Sounds like a Swahili for "monkeys fucking"), and, again, no way to correlate specs with intended actions ("Where the fuck is my MP3 player?!? They didn't include one?!? WTH is DRM? Oh, fuck, those dumbaseesssss!").

Here are some possible marketing slogans...

Linux. Designed By Geeks. For Geeks. TM

Linux: $0
Your Time: Worthless TM


Who Needs to Get Laid When You've Got Linux? TM

Linux. For People With Too Much Time on their Hands TM

Anonymous said...

"Fucking MACTARDS ... Maybe i just should go and create a Mac OS Haters Blog and spew crap from my rectum and watch in glee all the mactards getting pissed of whatever i say that is not in the Bible of Steve Blowjobs.

MACTARDS .... SUUUUUEYYYYYYYYYYYYY

OINK OINK OINK ..."


someone's pretty butthurt

Anonymous said...

Jeff, is it true that you're a cock? How do you type? Breathe?

neus said...

@Bodhibuilder

Crap ... came too late then :(

@Anonymous sheep

Actually there are many more people butthurt and they're pretty easy to find!

To ease your life, here are some coordinates/map were you can find all sorts of bum raped - or butthurt as you put it - people.

http://www.freemacblog.com/applestores/

Thank you, come again!

Anonymous said...

This is my last comment on LH:

@LinuxHater :

I like it that you bring the people to hate GNU and/or Linux.
The smaller the number of Linux users will be in the future the better the community will become.

Thank you for spreading the hate for Linux into the minds of many, many people. Seriously, I am _not_ kidding here. Thanks and go on.

Spread more hate, more aggressive thinking against Free Software.

We do not need all those gay bastards who just leech Ubuntu using some torrent client without giving something back to the community.


Great ! *Thumbs up*

Alexei said...

>> I'm sorry, I don't think I understand your rambling. You're migrating to OpenBSD because it's pure and uber, is that it?

That's how I got it, too. Linux is not 1337 enough these days, I guess. And we are not amused anymore.

Wiping a perfectly working OS (his Linux works like charm, I expect no less) just to do some gymnastics installing another OS. Because of some text that appears on his screen as he browses to certain forums. Rrright, what a great way to spend your time.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous above: I agree. The fewer of you lusers there are to give one another mindfuck handjobs, the better.

Alexei said...

>> The smaller the number of Linux users will be in the future the better the community will become.

Hooza! Racial purity, man!

Anonymous said...

"(Ubuntu? WTF? Sounds like a Swahili for "monkeys fucking")"


Oh man, I'm glad I finished my Dr Pepper 5 seconds before reading that XD


"Spread more hate, more aggressive thinking against Free Software."

I see it more as constructive criticism and a call for the oss community at large to get their heads back in the sunshine

"We do not need all those gay bastards who just leech Ubuntu using some torrent client without giving something back to the community."

Oh, you mean people like me, to whome code is, well, code. How exactly are us poor unwashed non-developer geeks supposed to contribute to the community?

Especially when all you elitist pricks are so high and mighty that if you ever fell off your egos you'd break your necks.

Just hit the paypal donation button, toss the poor devels a few ducats, and STFU, right?

Bodhibuilder said...

Anonymous said...
This is my last comment on LH

Last anonymous comment on LH? I wish

Alexei said...

>> Oh, you mean people like me, to whome code is, well, code. How exactly are us poor unwashed non-developer geeks supposed to contribute to the community?

I can add to that - even if you know your way around #include, it takes A LOT of time and effort just to set up your debugging environment (not everyone uses Gentoo, see). I'm not even talking about actually understanding what the code does.

Imagine this: I have some experience with database software, some OpenGL experience and wrote a couple of Maya plugins (a long time ago), so how do I deal with clicks in my audio? Begin to educate myself? How much time would you estimate I'd need to pinpoint an issue in my ALSA/Pulse/whatever??

And why on Earth would I want to spend all this time with somebody else's code when I have my own code to play with? On a system that simply plays my mp3s, no debugging required.

.net jerkface said...

Someone mentioned BSD earlier, which is a testament to how pathetic Linux has really been.
Since around '99 hundreds of millions have been dumped into to Linux from corps like Novell and Red Hat, and yet there is no performance difference between a LAMP stack and BSD stack. From what I have seen a BSD stack is more reliable.

So Linus, what is your reasoning behind having an unstable abi again? Where are the fruits of this philosophy? Linux doesn't even dominate PDAs where in theory it should have the advantage.

If BSD were the defacto free unix then at least there would be a standard base and millions of man hours would not have been wasted recompiling software for depositories.

But Linus continues on with his separate kernel development / unstable abi model and ignores the needs of ISVs and hardware makers. Because at the end of the day he really could give a shit about them, and he would probably care less if only him and 10 other star-trek nerds used Linux.

Microsoft really lucked out with Linus. He has killed off the commercial unix market for them and has made linux completely unappealing to hardware and software companies.

They should reward him with a check.

Anonymous said...

@alexei: "And why on Earth would I want to spend all this time with somebody else's code when I have my own code to play with? On a system that simply plays my mp3s, no debugging required."

That's why people just shell out their $50-100, and use Windows or Mac OSX. Is it really because our time is more valuable than anybody elses? No, we just prefer to spend it on things other than debugging other peoples' code. Are we simply stupid sheep who want to Pay The Man? No, I value my money -- I'd rather put it in my kids' college funds than pay Microsoft or Apple, but go back to my original point about time and you have the answer. My time is just too valuable to waste fucking around in code that I don't care about. Maybe, if I were a hobbyist and I actually cared, but I'm not, and I don't. I'm a professional developer, and the last thing that I want to do after coding for, like, 10 hours at work, is to come home and fuck around with some luser's code.

Anonymous said...

@.netjerkface

Fortunately, Microsoft doesn't need to pay Linus to maintain his current path of stupidity: He's doing it all on his own, basically giving a big FUCK YOU salute to IHVs and ISVs, and guaranteeing that they have trouble maintaining binary compatibility between kernel versions. You can't buy this kind of incompetence. It's like manna from heaven.

Alexei said...

>> That's why people just shell out their $50-100, and use Windows or Mac OSX.
. . .

Exactly. That is precisely what I mean.

Anonymous said...

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950

Yozuki said...

The main problem I see with choices is the users who don't know what these choices represent and if they coincide with what they want. I'm currently running 15 flavors of Linux in VMware as a result. The distro that is king of choices, has left me the most confused of all of them.

On another note, I like the 'my statement is valid, your highlighted statements are not' arguments going around.

Vedejas said...

Are you saying that people would rather pay not to choose? That's beyond the point, on the Desktop we all know there is a starting point for Linux, and that's Ubuntu. In reality, people don't need to choose, and Linux is nice because people can choose if they want to. Still, Ubuntu with default Applications is pretty default. It might not be as default as Windows is today, but that could change. And I do think people want to choose what they put their money into; if people were aware of the option, they probably would choose not to spend their money on Windows/OSX.

.net jerkface said...


And I do think people want to choose what they put their money into; if people were aware of the option, they probably would choose not to spend their money on Windows/OSX.


Very few people would choose to save $50 (what vista costs after crapware subsidies) to learn a new OS that isn't used in the business world and has major hardware/software compatibility issues. Most people have no problem spending $50 on a dinner and a movie, let alone an OS.
Even at the OEM price of $100 the cost is insignificant, especially when spread over the lifetime of the OS. The savings would have to be closer to $300 to see a market shift.

Thank god Vista is cheap since I hate Linux and would like to see it collapse on itself and be replaced with something like Haiku.

Anonymous said...

No stable ABI and not even a stable API in the Linux Kernel is dumb, simply and completely dumb. Torvalds might be a good coder, but as an engineer, he is hopeless...

Torvalds declared that the OS (among them Linux) should be invisible from the user's POV.
Newsflash Linus: with less than 1% market share on the Desktop, you can honestly claim "Mission Accomplished" as far as Linux is concerned.

Joseph Smidt said...

Linux Hater-

Though you hate Linux, I hope you know this blog is one of the best things that could be happening to Linux.

Most people who hate something want it to die or go away. This blog will make Linux better and even more likely to be around wherever you go.

I say keep up you hate, it's great for Linux. Soon you'll be know as the "Linux Helper".

blackbelt_jones said...

And yet somehow Linux does work for millions of users, even though you have scientifically proven that it shouldn't. It must be black magic.

I want to encourage you in this blog, because I'm pretty sure that if not for an accident of birth, you'd be posting on a white supremacy blog, and cooking up mathematical formulas to "prove" your ideas of racial purity. I think we can all be grateful you found a relatively harmless paranoid obsession. Keep it up.

Anonymous said...

@blackbeltjones: "And yet somehow Linux does work for millions of servers, even though you have scientifically proven that it shouldn't. It must be black magic."

There. Fixed it for you.

blackbelt_jones said...

"The Linux Hater's Blog" Astroturf? or Asperger's?

It's got to be one or the other. Considering the work that goes into your little manifestos, either someone is paying you to do this, or you don't have what most of us (even Linux users) would consider "a normal social life".

"Obsession with providing choice it every level actively works against efforts that would otherwise push Linux to provide what the mainstream wants."

DING DING DING DING! GOOD NEWS! Turns out most people don't use Linux. Victory is thine! At last, the world is safe from the unmainstream. The Nobel Comittee left a message, they've decided to create a Nobel Prize in "Blogging".

Just one more thing I want to say, Mr. Linux Hater:

You light up my life.
You give me hope
to carry on
you light up my day
and fill my nights...

with song!

blackbelt_jones said...

I myself am 100 percent desktop. So I guess it's millions of servers and one desktop. I must be a very very lucky fellow.

vedejas said...

Blackbelt: I wouldn't be surprised to find out Microsoft is paying him. I mean, it would be like them; http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html

blackbelt_jones said...

What I'm trying to figure out is if Linux on the desktop simply doesn't work, why spend so much time talking about it? Why the obsession with something that, in the real world, doesn't even exist?

vedejas said...

Blackbelt: I wouldn't be surprised to find out Microsoft is paying him. I mean, it would be like them; http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html


Really? Don't you think Microsoft could afford something better?

Anonymous said...

Linux internal kernel ABI is unstable for good reasons.

1) Linux kernel design is not set in stone and is being improved.

2) Security system exists in kernel space being able to audit everything in there at the source level is wise.

Its simply that you are all secuirty idiots. Drivers in the same space as your secuirty system able to reach across and mess with your secuirty system opens up secuirty holes. Remember even Microsoft wants so see the source of your driver before they sign it to operate in kernel space.

Sorry asking for a constant Linux driver ABI in kernel space will not happen.

Yet Linux Kernel UserSpace ABI is very stable. For good reasons.

So Linux kernels can be upgraded without upsetting already installed applications.

There is that most people don't notice a stable driver API created in the User Space section of Linux particularly for closed source drivers. Since its in userspace secuirty can controls can be wrapped about it and it cannot simple bypass the secuirty.

Basically Linux not having a stable Driver ABI is a myth. Linux just does not have a Stable Driver ABI where its a secuirty risk.

If they complain about performance from being locked to user space they can always go work on http://www.yl.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~tosh/kml/ What is a application auditing system for running in kernel space using the user space ABI that is stable.

Linux is turning into a hybred. Monolithic/Microkernel. Monolithic for open source and audit able drivers. Microkernel for closed source drivers.

With kml its also a hybrid kernel as well.

Stabilisation of the upper API's into a constant ABI is the job of the Linux Standard Base. Yet one of there side project is a driver back port system.

All the bits you complain about are being worked on. Lot of lies to down right myths are spread about linux. About time you all start unlearning them.

Abel Cheung said...

@tristan:

As the Gnome people have been saying for years, picking sensible defaults and making choices for people doesn't hinder anyone (apart from uber-geeks), it just makes life easier.

If you really trust developers do always make sensible defaults. Still remember that they made spatial mode by default for Nautilus, and treating everybody opposing this feature as betrayers, denouncing their blasphemy of GNOME desktop and developers? How long did they take to secretly admit that it was failure without saying anything to public?

Anonymous said...

Providing choice is not the real motivation for the Linux crowd. Developers want to develop programs. It's probably easier (or it may look more glamorous) to start a new program than to fix an existing one. By the time the idiot developers figure out they couldn't do any better than the previous guys, it is too late: you got one more half-baked program that does more or less the same job as the others, but loses in different ways. 'Choice' is a rationalization. Rather than saying "I can't keep my hands to myself", the coder says "I am providing you choice".

You can't stop the developers, especially the amateur ones that are not getting paid. In the Linux world, even the paid people seem to be given a free reign. How else will you explain the fact that the bums are still fiddling with the Linux kernel? Isn't a "commodity OS" supposed to be done sometime? What possible benefit is the end user getting from all of the constant development? [ If anything, it inflicts pain on the end user - it forces him to stay on the upgrade treadmill, because not everything is back-ported. ]

Linux has always been about developers. If an end user can use it, that's a bonus.

Keith J. Farmer said...

@anon: "If an end user can use it, that's a bonus."

No.. It's a miracle.

Dread Knight said...

Tons of incompetent application choices ftw!
The real choices should be inside the applications on how to get things done.

////
Gnome guys: forget about gtk+ 3 or whatever. Use qt.
////

One desktop to rule them all, KDE4!
One distro to rule them all, Kubuntu! :D

William Gates III Esq. said...

who gives a fuck about mainstream? Not me. MAINSTREAM = IDIOTS WHO BELIEVE EVERYTHING THEY"RE TOLD.

I just want an OS that I don't have to ring up the help-desk to re-register every time the fucking thing crashes on a machine which has a sticker on it saying that it was designed for that OS.

I am one of those people that MS has pissed off due to its continuous wankiness and since I know my DOS from my SSH i installed ubuntu and whaddya know? IT WORKS RIGHT AWAY (mind you I turn off the updates ;o) )!!! and has a few features that windows XP doesn't (eg wireless USB doesn't require an install). My DSL connection now goes 100x faster than it ever did in windows and I can pretty much do anything I want with minimal fucking around on the command line ,mind you if you ask me, people who complain about the command line should not be allowed to own a computer, it's a fucking computer FFS, get used to it! THese are the same useless space wasters who complain that a car has a manual transmission and cannot even change a car tyre.

With Linux, at least I can study the OS and see how it works etc. With MS shitscrape-ware all I can study are a bunch of GUI menus and config tools, but beyond that, it's all super-secret hush-hush don't tell anyone coz then they'll know why it takes over a min to startup and don't even start on Vista, we all know it is shit.

If you wanna run MS shitware then be my guest, and I hate the rabid fanboys as much as the next user, but stop making shit up you useless man-fucker I hate you and all you stand for.

Anonymous said...

Truly Linux development is about money. That might sound stupid but it completely is. Servers and Embedded is paying Linux developers so that is what has been forced on first. So the desktop has been left for many years a disaster zone. Of unpaided developers doing it for fun and fighting between themselves.

Linux kernel still in development because as yet it does not have all the best features of every OS kernel out there in kernel yet. But something everyone misses. Last 2 years Linux kernel development focus has changed.

Capabilities the lost secuirty system of Linux has returned.
Capabilities and object based secuirty models of Linux are tiding up.

Long term performance issues are being taken on that have been in the kernel since 1996.

If you had been following Linux Weather Forecast and other Linux feature adds to kernel. You would be noticing something. Its shrinking less new features more repairing and doing old recommendations. Its so bad in fact that there are no new features to cause Linux kernel to change from 2.6 to 2.8. At this stage 2.6 series look like the last in the Linux kernel set. Normally by the x.x.5 in a linux kernel there was something that needed a change due to breaking compatibility to force a major number change. We are way past that point with 2.6.

When the feature list in kernel will be 100 percent completed no one is exactly sure. But I can tell you one thing we are for sure closing in on it.

This is also having side effect of some programmers being displaced from kernel to work on other projects.

PS GTK stays a live because closed source people can use it. Ok not the best reason but it is the reason. If a new better tool kit turned up for closed source things might change.

MS hate is not valid grounds to move to Linux. No point using it and being a troll same with the reverse.

LinuxHater said...

"Linux. For People With Too Much Time on their Hands TM"

It's not my fault I won the lottery and really, as working 9-5 sucks monkey-balls (something I'm sure you know all about) as much as Windows, I use Linux. I mean a man has to have a hobby in between sessions of crack and hookers, right?

Anonymous said...

Totally agree that too much choice is bad. I hate going to major supermarkets because of choice, and I ABSOLUTELY HATED those "Right to choose" ads on American TV. Advertising for advertising??

Anyway, I digress... sort of.
When I used to shop at Safeway (Australia), it would take me at least an hour to buy my weekly groceries. When I started shopping at Aldi, that dropped to 30 min, and my grocery bill dropped in half. So by giving up choice, I ended up saving time and money, not to mention the stress of trying to find what I was looking for. Hmm... canned corn... 5 brands... multiple sizes... oh wait, this one is on special... but is it cheaper than the one that comes in bulk... oh wait, it has some weird chemical additive...

When I first started using Ubuntu, I was like "this is awesome" (coming from Windows, it doesn't take much to think something else is awesome). I thought, wow, it automatically keeps all my software up to date!
But then I was like, why is it still running Thunderbird 1.5, when 2.0 was released like ages ago... hmmm.. something must be wrong with the updater... then I find out that it's not updated because of their update policy. Well, that's all fine. It's a major version jump, so I won't complain. But what about other apps that have minor point releases? Nope, only security updates get included. So wait, the latest version of Pidgin fixes a bug that kills conversations in MSN, but it won't be included because it's not a security issue??

BTW, the examples given span over the past year and a half that I've been using Ubuntu, so don't telling me that it came with Thunderbird 2 since Feisty

DamnRight said...

Argh, the stampede of the idiotic, paranoid, pedantic 'M$ IS PAYING YOU ZOMG' zealots has arrived. Get a clue, morons. Oh you can't. Well, try anyway. Try at least to realize that you're on the same level as the worst of the Apple zealots, and both of you do much more harm than good to the respective platforms.

I don't think that the ABI & API stability thing is such a big deal in order or priority, there are more important things to tackle before that. OSX was way worse, even if they somewhat got religion from 10.4 onwards, and nobody complained. Not in public, anyway.

Yep, choice is really an euphemism for 'can't be bothered to fix & finish stuff or coordinate on big projects - are you sure you don't need another IRC client or Tetris clone? What about a new sound daemon?', but even if it wasn't:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Iy8R5TZNV1A

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html

LIS said...

@vedejas, blackbelt_jones
You're clueless morons, LH diagnosed your type of lusers in previous posts. Go fuck yourselves. You clearly don't understand the purpose of this blog.

@secuirty kernel
I'm a Windows driver developer, and you've got no clue, moron. MS does not requires 3rd party developers to provide it with the drivers' code, but has rather created a drivers testing server, containing hundreds of tests, that you run in your local environment. When the server finishes to run (after several days), it generates a signature that is sent to MS in order to get WHQLed.
That much better than the Situation in the Linux driver development land, where there's no automatic testing suit, no kernel debugger, and no ability to qualify 3rd party drivers without giving aways all of your IP.
Note: writing kernel mode drivers using kmdf is a breeze compared to writing kernel mode drivers for Linux.

And stop writing secuirty, go damn you, Firefox should have fixed this repeating, stupid spelling mistake in the first time, you hopeless little moron.

.net jerkface said...


1) Linux kernel design is not set in stone and is being improved.

People have been saying this for years, but where are these improvements at? The best advantage Linux has over Windows Server is that it is free. No one even claims that you will see a performance gain with a lamp stack vs server/iis. Linux hasn't evolved into some super unix, it is just a unix clone.

2) Security system exists in kernel space being able to audit everything in there at the source level is wise.

Its simply that you are all secuirty idiots. Drivers in the same space as your secuirty system able to reach across and mess with your secuirty system opens up secuirty holes.

Doesn't emacs have spellcheck?

So anyways when was the last time Windows was compromised by an ATI video card driver? Wouldn't it make sense to at least allow closed drivers from the major video card companies, and only if the user wants them? If you were setting up a server you would not be forced to use them.

But by talking about security you're trying to avoid the main problem, which is that a simple usb mouse driver written for linux can be broken overnight by a kernel update without warning from Linus and pals.

You can have a stable abi/api with security limitations, there is no law stating that you have to have one or the other.


So Linux kernels can be upgraded without upsetting already installed applications.


What planet are you living on? Kernel updates break applications and drivers all the time.

Here is a kernel update breaking a wireless driver:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2144659

If you need more examples try a simple google search:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=kernel+update+broke+driver

blackbelt_jones said...

@vedejas, blackbelt_jones
You're clueless morons, LH diagnosed your type of lusers in previous posts.


So what you're saying, apparently, is that I was put in my place before I ever came here... so the fact that you have nothing intelligent to say now doesn't matter.

Go fuck yourselves. You clearly don't understand the purpose of this blog.


Well, if it's to entertain the hell out of me, it's a huge success!

Anonymous said...

Richard Stallman fellating a rubber chicken eating cheese

blackbelt_jones said...

I closing, I would just like to add...


You are so beautiful
to me...
Can't you see?

You're everything I hope for
And everything I need.
You are so beautiful
to me.

Jorge G. Mare said...

The paradox of choice:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6127548813950043200&q=engedu

blackbelt_jones said...

Anonymous said...

Richard Stallman fellating a rubber chicken eating cheese


Wow, I just made a complete fool out of myself by suggesting that you guys didn't have anything intelligent to say! Oh well, what can you expect from a freetard?

Anonymous said...

Reasons not to use linux:

Richard Stallman and Eric Raymond.

That is all.

These are the kind of guys who if you had to be near them for more than a few seconds, your first instinct would be to beat the living shit out of them.

Please LinuxHater, do a post on these douchebags.

Jojo said...

Please stop talking of "freetards religion". Free software seems more atheism for me. We design it ourselves.

Mactards and microsoftards! Keep believing!

Anonymous said...

ojo said...

Please stop talking of "freetards religion". Free software seems more atheism for me. We design it ourselves.


1. In the beginning Man created God; and in the image of Man created he him.

thecodewitch said...

Please stop talking of "freetards religion". Free software seems more atheism for me. We design it ourselves.

Mactards and microsoftards! Keep believing!


Given the choice between shrieking hyenas bleating about open source software for years, with nothing except KDE4 to show for it, and commercial companies that make something good enough that people are willing to pay for it, I think I'm going to have to go with the commercial company there, jojo.

That is what people who aren't cult members call a rational choice.

Anonymous said...

@jeff

"Choice is evil for computers too. Mac can fuck off, as can Linux. There should only be Windows Vista, and no goddam Server 2008, no XP, no "Professional". Everyone should just use Vista, and be done with it. Fuck special business editions, or Server oriented crap. Vista is absolutely perfect for EVERYTHING!. And all the computer brands - Keep Dell, and get rid of all the rest those fucking idiots- HP, Lenovo, Acer, Gateway, ASUS - they can all go to hell, and they're duplication of effort. There's just too much chaos in the market - what fucking computer do you buy??? And I want only one goddam graphics card - just pick Nvidia or ATI, and be done with - otherwise, having the choice just fucks up your video, right?"

Wow, your a fucking retard who has no ability to think for yourself. Might as well bend over. ATI or Nvidia sounds like too much choice for you. What about Intel? No choice = no competition = no innovation. Grow the fuck up, get a brain, and think for yourself.

@liz

"Note: writing kernel mode drivers using kmdf is a breeze compared to writing kernel mode drivers for Linux."

Being easy doesn't mean it's automatically good. Java/C# is easy, but slow.

I think the idea of change scares the shit out of Windows users to the point where they instantly dismiss anything not MS related. Windows has one thing going for it and thats games, but MS ain't making them.

thecodewitch said...

It seems to me that there are several kinds of choices.
There are choices that you make that are related to the work you're doing, then there are the choices you make that are completely irrelevant and distracting.

The difference between the linux cult member flaming this blog post and the relatively sane human animal is that the sane human can appreciate the difference between the 2 types of choices, whereas the lobotomized linux nut can't distinguish the two, instead seeing a confused mess, causing him to convulse and shit in his hand.

Ing-Long Eric said...

Ok, I love LH's blog, but I like to point out there's one choice that I am glad to have. The future of the web is php on Windows. From the IIS team, http://www.iis.net/php and from Zend, the people behind php http://www.zend.com/en/products/core/

Alexei said...

Atheism is a religion.
So says the court:

http://archives.neuralgourmet.com/2005/08/19/court_rules_atheism_a_religion

Anonymous said...

is't linux pronounced as liSux ?

:D

Anonymous said...

.net jerkface

Please stop proving how much of a Idiot you are.

"So anyways when was the last time Windows was compromised by an ATI video card driver?" 14 months ago. There have been other closed source driver attacks since then rootkiting the Windows OS. As per normal no media coverage. Basically you are a secuirty IDIOT and just proved it.

Most linux driver issues trace to two things. Closed source Windows drivers being run by Ndiswrapper in kernel space that directly reach out and edit memory without getting locks or asking to access there. This would be avoided if you where not running Windows drivers in kernel space. Please note windows bluescreens/redscreens of death for the same reason. Yes quality of driver is kinda critical if you want you machine to stay up. Pitty lot of windows third party driver lack that.

Next is Nvidia and ATI closed source driver also in kernel space.

Applications truly breaking because of a kernel update is rare to almost never. Applications broken because you are using a closed source driver loaded into kernel space also breaking the complete OS yes that happens. Sorry to say on all OS's that allow closed source drivers in kernel space. Now if that was not the case ABI in kernel space would exist. It did early on in Linux before the risks were understood. Back then the modules and kernel were shipped as different packages. Also back then Linux Security suxed too so it really was not any benifit.

Funny enough I complete hate emacs.

Yet us doing embedded development using hardware mostly linux compatible using the recommended closed source driver path. Can update our kernels with no glitches at all.

Drivers are not applications those broken drivers are kernel space where the API is known to be unstable. You cannot really blame anyone bar the company stupid enough to put there drivers there for causing your hell. Or being stupid enough to run Linux on not directly supported hardware and not expect issues.

Also note something Linux supported hardware has lot less issues. Put windows on hardware it don't support your stuffed. And I mean truly does not support no third party driver for item. Linux developers have at least tried to give you a option. Ok it comes with a price from time to time.

Windows is a secuirty mess. Linux has its issues. Most issues with people wanting to push stupidity.

PS Ndiswrapper was designed before userspace interface was formalised and yes it does need help from the kernel mode linux to fix up windows driver flaws. Its also on the highly flamed by Linux Developers for the problems it causes.

Anonymous said...

.net jerkface

One other thing emacs insult was stupid. One of the core programmers of Windows codes in nothing else. Emacs usage is not just restricted to the *nix world. Lot of us in the *nix world hate it just as much as anyone else.

I really do wonder if you are going for the idiot of the year award.

I am not a Linux lover that is your mistake. I will rip any OS to shreds including Linux. Only one catch I keep it truthful and use validly researched data. Google search for Linux + driver does not class as validly researched data because you have not answered the most critical question why.

Same goes for a lot of people around here you love using myths and lies to prove point. There are a list of valid and correct points to rip linux to shreds on find them and use them. Just like I can find a valid list to rip Linux BSD Windows Mac Solaris AIX to shreds with. No OS is perfect. No point using lies and half truths or Myths. Find the truth and use that.

Alexei said...

And the truth is that desktop Linux sucks. Whatever the reason. Audio issues, wifi, other drivers, inability to use latest software versions without jumping through hoops of system update. I don't really care about "hows" and "whys". I don't care about it's great ABI or Linus the high priest of the glorious kernel.

matt said...

Hi,

First of all, great blog, very entertaining, keep it up!

Second of all, if you haven't read this already, check out this link: http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9370

I promise it'll be relevent.

Keep on blogging!

Matt.

Anonymous said...

"inability to use latest software versions without jumping through hoops of system update."
This problem is on the November road map for the Linux Standard Base. And is currently being worked on.

Now if you want something exactly and don't want to get something again that you don't like its about time to speak up in the Linux Standard Base Packaging mailing list.

If not so be it. I am just to the point there are correct mail lists where you can explain your issues to change the future.

Or you can stay here and sink into complaining about problems.

Expressing your problems to the wrong parties get you no where. The Microsoft Hate and OS X Hate groups are also as useless.

Reason its key to understand why a problem exists is so you can get it fixed.

LIS said...

@matt
Yep, he nailed it.

Btw:
1. C# and Java are slow because they are based on VM.
KMDF and UMDF are abstraction framework, a totally different kind of beast.

2. I've worked a little in java before, and I fucking hate it.

Anonymous said...

fork kde4 pls fork it fork it

Mirza said...

There is more to operating systems adoption than usability. While more development is put into Linux, more advertising is put into Mac, and in the end advertising wins out. As for internet explorer, it is a dominant browser because it is pre-installed on most computers sold today. My parents have used computers for years, but none of them know that there is an alternative to Explorer. I might have mentioned Firefox to them, but I doubt that they would remember it.

With Linux different ideas float arround and best ones get to the surface. There were once many WMs, today there are only two major ones. Few people today actually use vi, emacs and LaTex to do their documents. There is really natural evolution of features in Linux.

With corporations is prety much a hit-or-miss thing. iPhone was a hit. Mac Cube (or what ever it was called) was a miss.

deadpan said...

Beware linuxhater you are surrounded!

and without the deadpan:
server, supercomputers, embedded, mobile phones, and so on untill some very exotic hardware mostly use linux/FOSS. The desktop remains undominated but the latest market share trends show some change (which is a result of choice) (ok geared mostly towards os x but as a sum it is) a trend away form microsoft (not a surprise with the mistake vista is). I think the next few years will be very interesting in the desktop market.
And please stop calling us lusers, it makes you look like a zealot too..

Horatio_Hellpop said...

@blackbelt_jones

//I must be a very very lucky fellow.//

You're not very lucky. You're just outrageously stupid. Like the million other freetards you mentioned.

rockmelinuxdamus said...

Yes you give linux a couple specific tasks and it will perform. As for a desktop system, no. I'm trying to imagine what 0.8% of the desktop market surrounding the other 99.2% would look like.

Could it even reach all the way around to call it a surrounding?

ok_flame said...

@rockmelinuxdamusorsmtlikethat
everything else surrounds it you fool... technology is more than a win-box. It's like saying that powerpc is dead because apple abandoned it.
by the way msvc++ 2008 express just failed to install on your favorite crap os. cheers!

Anonymous said...

does noone increase the span on the OS trend on netapplications? windows is steadily on the downhill (and so is explorer). for your convenience:
july 06 95.19% jun3 08 90.89%
guesses for july?
people are starting to see teh light finally!

Anonymous said...

http://www.jungo.com/st/linux.html

There are wrappers for Linux too. Only problem since they are cross platform driver development they want lots of money for them. Yes something that development could be worked on.

KDE4 is one of those major design changes. It hurts and hurts while the old features are missing. Be thankful KDE 3.5 will be around until feature list of KDE4 is lifted up to snuff. Same kind of pain happened around the start of KDE3 too. Developers not stopping around for minor numbers shows they are not happy with it either.

There are unhappy campers all round KDE4 at moment. Developers are mostly looking at the roadmap and going ok its bad now will improve and wish Users had told us some of these things sooner. User come yelling at them and they kinda get upset KDE 4 was on the drawing board for a full year yet most of the extra features past KDE 3.5 being requested now were not even brought up.

Fork KDE4 is just not a viable project at this stage. Its the reason KDE developers say the don't need users they need contributers. Users that get in the planing stages and say Ok good idea but that could hurt me here.

Lot of opensource projects are being hurt by this. People who are just users are not use to have feedback channels that work. This is a migration education thing.

Linux is sounding the desktop market on all sides. Servers Devices Routers and the list goes on. Ok not attacking the centre market yet. Reason Distributions makers most of them are sane. Not going to send lots of money in marketing until product is ready. Catch is that is not far off for sections of the business market. Home market most likely last.

h1d said...

yes, many many more choices!

I'm happy to be able to choose from the many (overly below standard quality) applications!

Alexei said...

>> 1. C# and Java are slow because they are based on VM.

Slow.. for what? I didn't find them to be slow, really.


>> 2. I've worked a little in java before, and I fucking hate it.

Hm. I normally agree with what you write here, but not in this case.

beniwtv said...

"Jeff's examples fails. If you were to choose any random product out of his examples all of them would still fulfill their broader purpose. IE, if you pick any random car you can still get from point A to point B. If you pick any random cereal you still get your breakfast. This is not the case for picking software or Linux distros."

I beg to differ here.

My father bought once a new shiny DVD player, with 5.1 sound system attached. He bought it randomly picking the cheapest product on the market.

After two months, he also bought a new shiny digital satellite receiver, which can receive 5.1 dobly digital, and has an optical output to attach a cable to your 5.1 sound system.

Guess what? The DVD player hadn't a f***king sound input for 5.1 not even an analog one!

So, your statement about "random" picking and buying things and they just work is flawed.

Alexei said...

>> for your convenience:
july 06 95.19% jun3 08 90.89%
guesses for july?
people are starting to see teh light finally!

Isn't this by any chance because of
a) Vista
b) OS X
(maybe you have data on Linuxes for July'06 and June'08?)

c) Firefox growth on Windows and OS X
?

Anonymous said...

the man is talking 'bout windows falling baby not linux conquering (yet) damn you zealots on both sides

Alexei said...

Yeah, damn you, anti-windows zealot

Alexei said...

And, BTW you agree that "teh light" is OS X rather then Linux?

sergej said...

Hi. I think you miss the point totally in your blog and waste your time. I am not a programmer nor a Linux guru, just an ordinary user and use one of many GNU/Linux distributions just because I want. All my hardware works (joystick, DVB-T, webcam, ...) I can do all my works I need to do every day, from engineering computation to mailing and playing games. Actually I am trying WoW, to see if i like it, but my best popular game is IL2 flight simulator. My parents lives 600km away from me so installed also Linux for them and they don't need to care anything, if there is some maintenance necessary I just log in through ssh do the job and logout and they even don't know about it. And so on ... So why do I use one of that GNU/Linux distris is just because I want! That's all! Nobody needs any argument's why to use this or that piece of anything. If buy a care you that one which best suit's to your needs and money you are available for it. I just wonder why are you wasting your time? Of course what are you doing here is very useful for Linux developers, but what is your use, are you getting paid for this? No really I am very interested since most of the blogs are about iterest's and hobbys, etc. But your blog is about something what is not interesting you at all.

Have a nice day
Sergej

p.s.: sorry for my english

Anonymous said...

ahhh
@alexei google "os market share" first result; ok not stats are stats and accuracy is an issue but the trend shows anyway- it's mostly b/c vista is the crap that it is and os x (*nix also) being a shiny new thing (ubuntu is also quite shiny: after the release of hardy heron linux (on the same stats) saw the % increase it had the last 2 or 3 years)
my point is 1 that people are choosing constantly, be it the give-me-a-working-pc approach heavily imposed on us or the other way around (benwtv spotted it just right)
and 2 that linux is quite easy for the common user now (90% there?) and the cost is nonsense if not 0
summing up: what is wrong with choice and what is wrong with free in freedom and as in beer
i get really excited on free beer!

oh and the stats for browsers:
july 06 june 08
IE 83.57 73.01
FFX 11.34 19.03

a piechart please mr blogger or a trend curve

LIS said...

@Alexei
Performance:
http://zi.fi/shootout/
"...Generally C++ is two or three times as fast as Java..."
http://www.irrlicht3d.org/pivot/entry.php?id=446
"..Java is not as fast as C++.."

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=gpp&lang2=java

http://www.ffconsultancy.com/languages/ray_tracer/conclusions.html
"..The Java compiler (Sun's JDK 1.5) is unique among these languages because it defers some compilation to run-time. We have been careful to test that Java's unusually slow startup time (of ~1s) does not significantly affect the results. Potentially, Java's just-in-time (JIT) compiler could use information that can only be obtained only at run time to further optimise the running program. However, Java's poor performance clearly indicates that Sun's current compiler is not succeeding in this respect on this particular benchmark..."

Naturally, in the context of driver development, Java is not even an option.

Hatred (which is subjective):
I really disliked working with Java because of the "Memory-Wall" - when the memory that was allocated to the VM got full, the program automatically crashed. It happened not only to the program in development (early development version, etc), but also to Eclipse, which crashed too many times. It was found to be a bug in the garbage collector, that didn't free some of the dereferenced object. In the end, the problem was fixed by using an explicit memory flush every X operation - this has slowed the program considerably.

Anonymous said...

can't afford os x for my one man army bussiness thank you

tuxmm said...

Choice may not be the best thing for a user who doesn't want to tinker for the system, however one should consider the fact the choice breeds competition. If one looks at Banshee, Rhythmbox, Exaile, and Amarok among others, it may seem like a useless choice, but ultimately they improve based on the progress brought on by competition.

Another point to consider is that when a company or group of people want to put together the perfect distro, they can mix and match because there is choice!

Not to bash Windows, but I must say that the lack of competition (they are still a monopoly give or take a few percentage points of users) has kept them from truly improving their system. (5 years of Vista creation and behind the shiny skin it still looks as ancient as XP.)

Anonymous said...

ms is still a monopoly but largely due to inertia of this certain market (the desktop) (trained users, existing & working hardware, documents in certain formats)
i don't think they can afford another vista and they are surely worried about this 5% giveaway (win7 to be released a year earlier shows that)

blackbelt_jones said...

@horatio_hellpop.

You're not very lucky. You're just outrageously stupid. Like the million other freetards you mentioned.


Your argument lacks... argument As usual. Punch a hole in this deranged nonsense, and they call you a "freetard", or a "luser", and pretend that they actually told you something.

What would be a good name for Windows users?

I have it... wusses!

So hellpop, you're just a wuss!

Doesn't really mean shit, does it? And it'll mean less the next time I use it. Repeating an epithet that was vaugely clever the first time someone thought it up is pretty much the same thing as saying "I don't have a real answer, so here's a make-believe answer. Now I'm going to pretend I told you off."

This is the kind of lameness that gives lameness a bad name.

Anonymous said...

I used to think free software was cool. It made me feel good to get Linux up and running because it was hard. Tweaking the sound was tricky, but dammit I got it working. I got my dual head video card working. I tweaked my kernel. It was a fun hobby for a while. Soon I realized that I had to do this every time I got a new system or tried a new distro. Eventually, I grew up, got a job, had kids and had to make a living for my family and I suddenly didn't have time to dick around with my computer 24/7. This is the point of the Linux hater's blog. In 10 years, Linux on the desktop has improved a little bit, but not significantly to the point that it won't consume all your time trying to make simple things work. My webserver still runs linux. But I will never run Linux on my desktop again.

Anonymous said...

try ubuntu

Anonymous said...

screw u we want choice
and part of it is not giving my money away to a lameass without any hair like Balmer (compared to him i really loike bill)

blackbelt_jones said...

You have to admire it. This isn't just bullshit. It's almost some kind of genetically engineered SUPERbullshit! Let's have a look:


I'm sure by now I don't really have to describe in detail this phenomenon: Whenever you criticize a luser about his choice of OS, he'll inevitably come back with, "at least it gives me choices." Choice in window manager, choice in terminal application, choice in file manager, choice in desktop environment, choice in kernel version, you name it.

This "choice", as loudly as it is trumpeted, is a key reason that Linux has not made it on the desktop. Let me attempt to show you why.

Every argument for "choice" is usually accompanied by a statement along the lines of, "there are many different kinds of users that prefer different choices, therefore we need to support all of them." In terms of distribution of choices, given 10 choices, this statement implies the following type of distribution.


So we start out with a a couple of quotes from that faithful friend of propagandists since the dawn of the Modern Bullshit Era, Mr. Strawman. That's standard,

But here's where Our own Mr. or Ms Linux Hater gets creative, and invents a whole new layer of bullshit.. We're not going to shown color charts based on what Mr. Luser Strawman has to say. We're going to discuss what Mr. Strawman's hypothetical words imply.

Reality recedes further. We're going to discuss an interpretation of something someone hypothetically might have said, revomed from context and argument. From this point onward, we've pretty much left the planet.

I am pretty sure that if Mr. or Ms Linux Hater ever criticized my choice of OS, my response would "inevitably" be: "Piss off, you little twit! Go play Halo 3 with all the popular kids!"

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones: "Reality recedes further. We're going to discuss an interpretation of something someone hypothetically might have said, revomed from context and argument.From this point onward, we've pretty much left the planet."

Look, dickwad, if you haven't heard Linux zealots saying or writing what LH is paraphrasing ("at least it gives me choices" ... etc), then (at best) you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, or (at worst) you're a lying sack of shit. Either way, you're wrong. These sentiments are standard luser responses to complaints about unnecessary forking, duplication of effort, and cloning one another's apps with subtle differences, and LH is right on the mark here. If you can't accept reality, don't expect the rest of us to go on your self-delusional day-trip with you.

Here's a novel thought. How about addressing the "content" of the blog post rather than trying to identify strawmen that don't exist? It might be more productive than waving your tiny dick around aimlessly. Nobody wants to see that.

blackbelt_jones said...

I used to think free software was cool. It made me feel good to get Linux up and running because it was hard. Tweaking the sound was tricky, but dammit I got it working. I got my dual head video card working. I tweaked my kernel. It was a fun hobby for a while. Soon I realized that I had to do this every time I got a new system or tried a new distro. Eventually, I grew up, got a job, had kids and had to make a living for my family and I suddenly didn't have time to dick around with my computer 24/7. This is the point of the Linux hater's blog. In 10 years, Linux on the desktop has improved a little bit, but not significantly to the point that it won't consume all your time trying to make simple things work. My webserver still runs linux. But I will never run Linux on my desktop again.


Okay, before I respond to the technical aspects of your post, the real bottom line is: Use whatever the hell you want! I don't understand how dicking around with this blog isn't "dicking around with Linux".

Linux on the desktop works fine for me. If you wanted to have a better experience with Linux on the Desktop, maybe I could help you, or maybe not. Maybe you and I use our computers in different ways. Nothing wrong with that.

And if you're not interested in Linux, there's nothing wrong with that, either. How can I claim to be for choice and try to shove my OS down your throat? I know that some Linux users are pretty obnoxious, but I don't think they speak for all of us. And many Linux users also use Windows. They wouldn't do that if Windows didn't offer them advantages.

The problem with this website is that it traffics in fake arguments and insults users as people. That's dicking around with being a dick.

Linux and Windows are both here to stay. For different reasons, they're both pretty bulletproof. So hopefully all this silliness will eventually just die of old age.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous: "screw u we want choice and part of it is not giving my money away to a lameass without any hair like Balmer (compared to him i really loike bill)"

See, folks? These are the kind of lame-ass justifications that we've all come to expect from lusers. This guy would rather dump thousands of dollars of his own time (assuming that his time is worth anything -- but, hey, maybe not), rather than plunk down $50 for a copy of Windows or OSX. The Sisyphean nature of the stupidity just boggles the mind. Where the fuck do these idiots come from? Are they all birthed from the same whore? Have the public schools really gotten that bad? Is there some new drug that we don't know about? Why are luser IQs dropping so precipitously?

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones:

How can I claim to be for choice and try to shove my OS down your throat?

LH isn't shoving (or trying to shove) an OS down your throat. He's simply pointing out the fallacies of lusers that have over-hyped Linux for users; in other words, he (and the rest of us) are tired of all the bullshit coming from this small but vocal bunch of Linux fanatics that constantly insist that the rest of us are "ignorant sheep" because we won't drink their Kool-Aid.

I know that some Linux users are pretty obnoxious, but I don't think they speak for all of us.

Given an opportunity, they certainly would. Just browse any of the many Linux discussion forums on the Web. They're just DRIPPING with condescension and elitist scat. Quite frankly, you can't treat people like that and expect them to embrace what you have to say.

And many Linux users also use Windows. They wouldn't do that if Windows didn't offer them advantages.

All OSes offer something. Linux isn't worthless. It just isn't what its advocates crack it up to be.

The problem with this website is that it traffics in fake arguments and insults users as people. That's dicking around with being a dick.

I have to disagree with you. LH makes a LOT of excellent points about Linux -- most of which go unanswered by the critics. And he knows WTF he's talking about. It's difficult to refute. But, keep in mind, this blog is mostly about HUMAN BEHAVIOR. It's not about technology. Technology can be implemented in a sane and rational fashion, and actually be useful. LH is pointing out that Linux is primarily a Cult of Personality centered around crazy ideas and poor engineering discipline. So, again, that's not a problem with technology but, rather, about the people that attempt to implement it. I think it's important to understand that distinction, or you're never understand this blog.

Linux and Windows are both here to stay. For different reasons, they're both pretty bulletproof. So hopefully all this silliness will eventually just die of old age.

Usually, what happens is that one thing or another simply fades into obscurity. Sure, it exists, but no one cares.

Anonymous said...

Choice is bad. I would prefer that MS eliminates their choices as well (they are not nearly as bad as Linux though, hands down). Why Basic, Premium and Ultra. Make it Ultra across the board, remove the choice in what we want to use on our computer. Yes, it would cost a little more, but honestly, you will waste your money in some stupid way regardless, use it in the marketplace and help grow the economy again.

blackbelt_jones said...

Look, dickwad, if you haven't heard Linux zealots saying or writing what LH is paraphrasing ("at least it gives me choices" ... etc), then (at best) you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, or (at worst) you're a lying sack of shit.

If it's so common, it should be easy to document.

Of course, "at least I have a choice" is sometimes used, but what the essay says is that "At least I have a choice" is the inevitable response to any criticism from "a luser". "A luser" clearly is used to suggest "any user".

So this is supposed to the be the inevitable response to any criticism of Linux from any user.

That. Is. A. Lie.

A real quote from a real person. That's pretty much standard practice for this kind of argument, and that lack of it is standard reason for dismissing an argument. Anyone with debating experience and an IQ over 60 would do the same.

I think the author probably could have found an actual quote, but pinning the statement down to an actual person would make this kind of flim-flam a lot harder to pull off. One person is just one person. Better to just drop it in as a foregone conclusion.

blackbelt_jones said...

Here's a novel thought. How about addressing the "content" of the blog post rather than trying to identify strawmen that don't exist? It might be more productive than waving your tiny dick around aimlessly. Nobody wants to see that.

Basically, you're telling me that I shouldn't focus on the lies. I should sort through the lies to find the truth. But that's not the way it works. Mix a lie with a truth, and that's a lie.

Your argument has no argument. It's all straw men, "luser" epthets and "You have a tiny dick". Anybody who has ever had a heated discussion in a web forum knows that "you have a tiny dick" really means "I have no argument"

Mind you, if I was to start a Windows Hater Blog, I wouldn't have an argument either. Attack someone else's OS is a fool's errand from the beginning.

Anonymous said...

100 pina coladas/margaritas that one can drink with the money that windows costs is worth much more than steven's welfare to me if that is stupidity to you go on pay steve your bucks he is laughing at you every night before going to bed i'm sure.

LH has some serious points on linux but he is a fanatic blaming fanatics of being ...fanatics

Anonymous said...

fool's errand indeed

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones: "I think the author probably could have found an actual quote, but pinning the statement down to an actual person would make this kind of flim-flam a lot harder to pull off. One person is just one person. Better to just drop it in as a foregone conclusion."

No, you're just erecting a strawman. If LH had produced a single person, you would THEN proceed to criticize that opinion as only coming from a single person, not "The Community", as a whole. You're so predictable.

Of course, "at least I have a choice" is sometimes used, but what the essay says is that "At least I have a choice" is the inevitable response to any criticism from "a luser". "A luser" clearly is used to suggest "any user".

Let's assume, for the moment, that saying "at least I have a choice" wouldn't be YOUR "inevitable response." What would your response be? Well, you could simply accept LH's argument, and apologize on behalf of dim-witted Linux devs everywhere, for creating too many duplicative choices. Or, you could try to justify your choices and, in doing so, you're arguing in favor of choice. So, really, you don't have much room to maneuver here. You could say nothing at all, of course, but that requires no effort or a pulse.

Anonymous said...

blackbelt_jones: "Basically, you're telling me that I shouldn't focus on the lies."

No, you should focus on the thesis of his post, which is "the fallacy of choice"; that is, whether having more choices is better than having fewer choices.

Anybody who has ever had a heated discussion in a web forum knows that "you have a tiny dick" really means "I have no argument"

No, it means you have a tiny dick.

blackbelt_jones said...

Usually, what happens is that one thing or another simply fades into obscurity. Sure, it exists, but no one cares.

"Usually?"

I don't know where you're getting this. The market usually moves in the direction of diversity. I once read an old newspaper from 1927 on Microfilm. I'll bet you every car for sale that day was a Ford Model A.

See, folks? These are the kind of lame-ass justifications that we've all come to expect from lusers. This guy would rather dump thousands of dollars of his own time (assuming that his time is worth anything -- but, hey, maybe not), rather than plunk down $50 for a copy of Windows or OSX.

Linux saves me a lot of time. It didn't at first, but now it does. The best part is, it cuts through the dullest most repetative tasks, the ones I used to really hate.

But you need to use the command line occasionally to get the real benefit. These days, it's possible to use Linux without using the CLI, but if you're not willing to familiarize yourself, you might as well stick with Windows. I think the Linux community needs to be a little more upfront about that. If you're willing to use the command line as a desktop tool, to supplement, not to replace the desktop, Linux will pay back your invested time with interest... or at least it sure did for me.

You can use Linux as if it were Windows, but it will always be second best. Windows has its drawbacks, but it's unquestionably better than Linux at being Windows.

It's not that there aren't criticisms to be made about Linux. There absolutely are. When I first came here, I really expected an honest discussion. But the blogger repeatedly claims that Linux doesn't work, and it does. I'm not interested in sorting through the bullshit. Leave out the bullshit, and we'll talk.

Anonymous said...

100 pina coladas/margaritas that one can drink with the money that windows costs is worth much more than steven's welfare to me if that is stupidity to you go on pay steve your bucks he is laughing at you every night before going to bed i'm sure.

Rrrrrright, as opposed to the suitcase of money that you have to hand over for your lost time. No thanks, dumbass. You may not be aware that you're losing money by dicking around with desktop Linux, but that's why people say "time is money."

bloghater said...

This is some funny stuff! Do the people "flaming" even know they are part of the show?

Oh crap, now I am too.... lol

blackbelt_jones said...

No, you should focus on the thesis of his post, which is "the fallacy of choice"; that is, whether having more choices is better than having fewer choices.

I choose not to.

blackbelt_jones said...

This is some funny stuff! Do the people "flaming" even know they are part of the show?


Is there anyone in here who isn't flaming?

Everyone's a troll when you're living under the bridge.


Oh well, time to go dick around with my operating system... uh, I mean... mow the lawn.

Anonymous said...

I don't know where you're getting this. The market usually moves in the direction of diversity.

There are hundreds of MP3 players on the market, most of them made by rubber dog-shit manufacturers in Japan and China. They all basically serve a single purpose, but nearly all of them are doomed to whimper and die over time. Diversity merely cannabilizes the market, kills off the weak, and moves people toward an inevitable winner: iPod.

Linux saves me a lot of time. It didn't at first, but now it does. The best part is, it cuts through the dullest most repetative tasks, the ones I used to really hate.

Good for you. But you're missing the point. It isn't that YOU can't make Linux useful. You can. It's that the wider market of desktop users can't or won't, for a variety of reasons which are outlined in this blog. But, again, the blog is primarily a criticism of the ATTITUDES that lusers have about the superiority of their OS.

blackbelt_jones said...

Rrrrrright, as opposed to the suitcase of money that you have to hand over for your lost time. No thanks, dumbass. You may not be aware that you're losing money by dicking around with desktop Linux, but that's why people say "time is money.

The fact that we're here proves we all have too much time on our hands.

Alexei said...

LIS - of course Java (or C#) isn't an option for drivers, that would be crazy.

As for performance, well, I'm too lazy to hunt for it now, but I remember reading about how .NET isn't really slower then native code, even faster at times (because the JIT compiler can optimize for current CPU). Not counting startup time, that is. Never got to compare C vs. .NET vs. Java myself, but did some semi-scientific Java 1.6 vs. .NET 2.0 testing - Java was generally somewhat slower w/o -server key, and faster with it (albeit at the expense of mem consumption)

Another thing is that modern games start using .NET more and more, and games tend to be performance-sensitive (okay, one may argue that they depend mainly on GPU.. but CPU is still used for many things)

- written mainly from .NET perspective. And BTW, I don't know about .NET, but .NET Compact 1.0 app crashes as it runs out of memory, exception can't be handled, so I had to ask GC to cleanup before allocating my large object (luckily I had only one such object, so I didn't have to cleanup periodically)

Then again, I much prefer any of Java/C#/D (especially D) to the syntactic monstrosity that C++ became.

Anonymous said...

thank u dumbass i don't see why I should wait forever to get MY files available under every processing application I HAPPEN to like and believe me ubuntu does not cost more than 1/2 a coctail to get it working right fuck u and fuck vista i'm free of that shit

sorry i have to give up this rant from both sides and spent my time with my girlfriend (it's becoming precious no matter what os you CHOOSE (having choice is a facility not fallacy no matter what the mess is))

blaming one on his/her os of choice is indeed a fools's rant and nothing more and so is this blog mguel de lcaza linking to it or not

linux is a beautiful system believe it or not if not then you just can't see the code

Anonymous said...

.NET is ms's way of saying "ALL YOUR RESOURCES ARE BELONG TO US".

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alexei said...

>> .NET is ms's way of saying "ALL YOUR RESOURCES ARE BELONG TO US".

Now that was clever. On a similar note - isn't Linux API/ABI Linus' way of saying "GO AHEAD, TRY TO DEVELOP A USEFUL APP FOR THIS, MWAHAHA"?

blackbelt_jones said...

There are hundreds of MP3 players on the market, most of them made by rubber dog-shit manufacturers in Japan and China. They all basically serve a single purpose, but nearly all of them are doomed to whimper and die over time. Diversity merely cannabilizes the market, kills off the weak, and moves people toward an inevitable winner: iPod.

Bullshit. My Coby Mp3 player cost me 20 dollars, and has lasted a year.

IT PLAYS SONGS... FOR TWENTY DOLLARS! (I never pay more than 40 dollars for something I'm probably going to lose.) You don't think they're selling? They're in every KMART and WALMART, and BIG LOTS. Oh, and my Coby works with Linux, unlike an IPOD.

You know, you'd make your case better if you could point to something that has actually happened, and not something that is going to happen in the future, even if it is "inevitable".

Linux isn't a business. It doesn't need to make money to survive. It dies when all its users lose interest, and you may have noticed that we're pretty loyal. I totally respect your right to use soemthing else, but if anyone tried to take Linux away from me, I would rip out their heart. That's so not just an expression! Of course, I wouldn't be able to do that with my bare hands; I'd need to use some kind of tool.

But, again, the blog is primarily a criticism of the ATTITUDES that lusers have about the superiority of their OS.

Ah, so they decided to criticize their snooty attitude by being disingenous jackasses? Okay, that's the part I didn't understand before. I get it now.

Just remember one thing: the most annoying and obnoxious members of any group are always, by definition, the most visible. This is true of Republicans, Democrats, Feminists, Christians, Muslims, etc.

Personally, I think that you should be able to use Windows if you like, unmolested by Linux / Mac fanboys. There are a lot of good reasons why you might make that choice. Linux is for anybody who wants it, but it's not for everybody. Not yet at least.

GOD, the lawn has probably grown an inch since I said I had to go mow.

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...

Good for you. But you're missing the point. It isn't that YOU can't make Linux useful. You can. It's that the wider market of desktop users can't or won't, for a variety of reasons which are outlined in this blog.

Maybe, but I'm not responding to the point of what the author is saying. I'm responding to what the author is actually saying.

My point is that the author uses dishonest arguments to arrive at spurious conclusions. For the foreseeable future, the above statement is probably true. We all know that there are serious obstacles to desktop acceptance for Linux. But the blog itself goes far far beyond that, and you're crazy if you expect me to just overlook the lies. I'm more interested in the lies. That's just me, I'm funny that way.

I'm sure the author has interesting, valid points to make about that-- but the author prefers the Linux Hater's shtick to serious argument. Don't lie, and expect to be taken seriously. Stop lying, and then I'll take you seriously.

LIS said...

@alexi
I've never used .net or c#, therefore I can't comment about.

I've forgot the main point: The machine that run the program had ~1gb of memory, while the VM was configured to use about 512mb. If the code was native, the program would have used the full gb of memory, and than start to swap. Since it was constrained to the VM, it crashed. That's not a reliable behaviour (it also means that the program was not very efficient - that was an early stage of development)

I really like Python, which is about ~70 times slower than C.

Anonymous said...

> I'm sure the author has interesting, valid points to make about that-- but the author prefers the Linux Hater's shtick to serious argument. Don't lie, and expect to be taken seriously. Stop lying, and then I'll take you seriously.

You keep on saying the author is lying, yet you give absolutely no proof to refute it at all. The argument you give has been dealt with by LHB before - it's pure denial, and nothing more.

Not that it makes a difference for me, but LHB is read by a lot of FOSS devs. Hell, the founder of GNOME, Icaza even referenced this blog in one of his recent posts. Sure, the blog isn't without its gimmicks, but it works because the author manages to be factually correct a lot of the times and occasionally funny as well. Love or hate Linux, there's no denying that this blog is dispensing valuable criticism which could prove to be far more valuable to FOSS projects than meets the eye.

Anonymous said...

Hi. A lot of weak fools in the FOSS community have been fawning all over you, so I might as well show up just to say I was here.

Here. I predicted you would show up, and the reactions to you. The one-liner quote under #3 applies especially.

Really, your talents could be spent on something more productive. That doesn't mean I don't 'get' you. I 'get' Beavis and Butthead too, but that doesn't mean I rank it as high art.

-a random penguin named Pete

Alexei said...

LIS - that's an interesting point, I mean - crashing as the app runs out of RAM. I'm curious about this behavior (anything but normal IMO) and I'll definitely run a couple of tests of myself, both with .NET and with Java VM.

For .NET Compact such behavior makes sense though - PDAs simply don't have a hard drive for swapping, so when you're out of RAM - you're out of RAM.

P.S. My personal fav so far is D - too bad its not widely used (as in: well supported, not many libs and job opportunities :[ )

letaleta said...

hi folks. I am anew luser. I am also a doctor of filosophy (PhD) in Chemical Engineering. My husband has brought me to the world of linux in wich i have found amazing chemistry-oriented applications not ever existed in any other platform. Linux is my desktop of choice.

Thank you

N. Zou
Dr Chemical Engineer

.net jerkface said...


"So anyways when was the last time Windows was compromised by an ATI video card driver?" 14 months ago. There have been other closed source driver attacks since then rootkiting the Windows OS. As per normal no media coverage.


I'm sure you are talking about this:
http://kerneltrap.org/node/7228

The exploit was actually for unix systems, but more importantly the belief that open source == secure has been proven false numerous times by the mere existence of apache and firefox.
So why not have a dual model where the user can choose between a closed or open source driver? Have a basic open driver for servers and a closed performance driver for users.
But then the issue isn't simply with drivers that need kernel access. If it was the situation would be a lot better.

Most linux driver issues trace to two things. Closed source Windows drivers being run by Ndiswrapper in kernel space
...
Applications truly breaking because of a kernel update is rare to almost never


You are either completely full of shit or never install anything beyond a lamp stack on a headless server.

Kernel update breaks onboard intel sound card
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=314383

Kernel update breaks vmware server:
In my experience, a kernel update always breaks vmware server. I run three different vmware hosts, and each time updates are sent down, I sift through them looking to see if there's a kernel update. If there is, I do this before I run the update:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=837299&page=2

Breaking vm server is unacceptable. It is a common application that is often used for mission-critical services. If Microsoft did this with a Vista update the tech press would castrate them.

Anonymous said...

who th f**k uses windows for vm'ing
i'm sorry but we computer scientists don't regard ms as nothing mmore than a pile of sh*t

Anonymous said...

Tuomov sums it up really great:

http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/b/archives/2007/06/01/T19_09_43/

"Developer: “I just created this essential piece of software according to a tunnel vision, the worse-is-better fallacy, and several misjudgements.”

The herd, in chorus: “Oooh! Shiny! Let's adopt it!”

I couldn't agree more. Linux people are so eager to topple Microsoft that they are creating bad solutions that necessitate endless rewrites.

It it also a fallacy that FOSS developers are more open and smarter than Windows developers. They are not. Just because you code in the open does not make you smart.

Horatio_Hellpop said...

@anon freetard above:

//we computer scientists don't regard ms as nothing mmore than a pile of sh*t//

Since when did Jr. High Earth Science students count as "scientists?"

Anonymous said...

The freedom of choice is what liberates you from the evils of proprietary software and the monopolies of corporations like Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, and Opera.

If you can't handle freedom that Linux empowers you with, DON'T USE LINUX. Linux is not for everyone and we don't need pussy users like you.

I suggest you reread the accounts of Exodus in the Old Testament and learn how their freedom came with struggle and hardship.

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones

//Bullshit. My Coby Mp3 player cost me 20 dollars, and has lasted a year.//

And it sounds like blubbery ass, compared to an iPod. Trust me, I've compared.

Habuza said...

I like this blog.. it is quite humorous. But I will agree with LH on pretty much every point he has made, I've tried linux, many flavors, but I keep going back to windows because I want something that WORKS. I am a gamer, Linux can game , yes, but you need wine or cedega, and I don't feel like dicking around with a program / api and installing various packages / dependencies. So until linux can do what windows does, it will be crap in my book. Choice? "Freedom"? Don't make me laugh. /golfclap

Anonymous said...

//I suggest you reread the accounts of Exodus in the Old Testament and learn how their freedom came with struggle and hardship.//

That is the all-time dumbest comparison I've ever read. Congrats.

.net jerkface said...


The freedom of choice is what liberates you from the evils of proprietary software and the monopolies of corporations like Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, and Opera.


You should throw away your computer then because all computer hardware contains embedded proprietary software. It is evil, destroy it.

Oh and what did Stallman use to compile his open source compiler? Magical pixie dust?

But keep up your fight comrade, the LRFF (Linux Revolutionary Forum Forces) here salute you.

Anonymous said...

if you like gaming try linux gamers live dvd --- and lollipop yes scientists of every discipline regurarly prefer lin to win. it's time you come up with an argument IO calling us lusers or freetards uFCNGwin er

LIS said...

@Mr. Comp, Sci.
Let me quote a M.Sc Math from my workplace:
"Linux? Nobody takes it seriously"

Want to compare penis size?

LIS said...

Btw - the academia is migrating away from Linux to osX, at least where I've studied.

LIS said...

Funny how my prediction came true.
AMD released the specs for their cards, and I've predicted that they're must be going under - companies that turn to Open Source are companies that try it as a desperate PR measure - and look what happens - AMD posts record losses.

Thanks you FOSS, for being the barometer for failure.

Anonymous said...

"The freedom of choice is what liberates you from the evils of proprietary software and the monopolies of corporations like Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, and Opera."

Opera?! WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

CONVERT CONVERT CONVERT CONVERT

Badabing said...

Despite the fact that I agree with your analogy, as a user, I love choices and can hardly wait for the next Linux distro to check out but ultimately, I don't give a rat's ass if desktop-linux ever makes it anywhere.

tuomov said...

LH is misguided in this post. There's less and less choice in the FOSS world; there's less and less abstraction layers; more and more specific choices that remove amount to remove the choice there once was. While in theory there remains choice, it's at the level "either you're one of us developers, or you're an idiot user". That is, it's so complex to exercise the choice, that you need to train yourself into a developer to do so. The power-user is being killed off.

For more, see e.g.

The UTF-8 monoculturists.

The idiot box Linux

State of fonts review

The downfall of X

Mehrdad said...

I don't think the chief hater really thinks CHOICE IS BAD. What he said is people always prefer WORKING over CHOICE. In fact, in the Linux world, nearly none of the choices work perfectly. If you could do something, you should have written something that has been working (baseline) and then introduce other sane WORKING choices for those who like to choose. The Linux world is far from it, since you gotta choose from a set of choices that NONE of them work correctly. I personally don't think FOSS world will ever achieve it without a financial coordination (just like MS or Apple) that forces devs to do what users want, since OSS devs usually release some crappy thing that works around their own problem and release it to the world for free. As you can see, successful open source projects all have financial support and coordination (Firefox, Linux kernel, Apache, ...)

Anonymous said...

Oh well.... I think that between the "Bill chooses for us all" in the MS world and "every single user HAS to make its own choice" that would be the FOSS world as described in this article, there is room for what I believe the paradigm of choice in FOSS is really about.
Let the the admin choose for the user. The user still just go straight to work. But the way this is done can be optimized by a sensible admin using FOSS... instead os Bill's gang fixing the rules.
So what's wrong with that ? Tha bad admins can still stick to Bill's ruling, the other can offer optimized experience to their users... and everybody's happy :-D

Anonymous said...

No time to make a good response, so here's a nice outline:

Problem: Humans have trouble with lots of choices- I certainly do.

Solution: Good choices that each offer something very different. E.g. UNIX(or unix like), MAC, Windows, something else...


With Linux, we have lots of modularity; so many choices at different levels. While I love it and have fun with it, I'm under no illusion that it's the best way to go about things.

OTOH, Linux's many choices isn't as big an obstacle for some businesses and organizations. Why that is, I'm not sure, but it does mean that Linux will have support in the foreseeable future.

So, you are absolutely right.

I love playing with Linux. I love the choices, but I know that I'm m not in the majority.


That's life.


Thanks.

jerry said...

This is why I love shopping at Costco. They give me from one to three choices of products in most categories, and because they are at Costco, I know any of the choices is mostly good quality and that I am getting a good price for it.

It's far easier to shop at Costco, and for me, far more rewarding in terms of product satisfaction than it is to shop at Target or Walmart or any store that offers me three dozen choices in every shopping category.

(Not to mention that for $1.62 I can get a polish dog and a coke.)

David Harris said...

This post is right on.

(Full disclosure: I write server software and do consulting for Linux and love it, but use OS X for my desktop.)

A few other writings on choice:

The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less book by Barry Schwartz

Publishers Weekly review: “Schwartz, drawing extensively on his own work in the social sciences, shows that a bewildering array of choices floods our exhausted brains, ultimately restricting instead of freeing us. We normally assume in America that more options ('easy fit' or 'relaxed fit'?) will make us happier, but Schwartz shows the opposite is true, arguing that having all these choices actually goes so far as to erode our psychological well-being.”

Quoted from this page

Choices = Headaches, article by Joel Spolsky

Shows an example of where Microsoft got this wrong. Who needs nine options to shut off their computer? Explains the issue very well.

User interface design for programers, article by Joel Spolsky

"Every time you provide an option, you're asking the user to make a decision."

"Asking the user to make a decision isn't in itself a bad thing. Freedom of choice can be wonderful. People love to order espresso-based beverages at Starbucks because they get to make so many choices. Grande-half-caf-skim-mocha-Valencia-with-whip. Extra hot!"

"The problem comes when you ask them to make a choice that they don't care about."

(emphasis mine)

Anonymous said...

Hear hear.
I'm fed up with hearing control-freak geek rave on about how choice is the be-all and end-all.

Anonymous said...

There is a common base for desktop Linux emerging: Ubuntu. If I ever suggest a distro to a Windows user that is looking to switch, that is it, and if I'm not doing the install for them myself, I won't bother mentioning that there's also Kubuntu, etc. If somebody tries the default, out-of-the-box Ubuntu, and likes it, and doesn't want choice, then he/she doesn't need to do any more. That's it...end of story, no need to worry about choice anymore.

I think anyone with any experience and sensibility knows better than to explain the intricacies of different distros to a non-Linux user...just point them to the most popular desktop-oriented OS and leave it at that.

No, I'm not a Ubuntu fanboi of any sort. I've been using Fedora for years (though that could change), as well as Kubuntu for my family's machine.

blackbelt_jones said...

People who talk about how this blog is a "satire" remind me of the people who used to tell me I just didn't "get" Andrew Dice Clay.

Anonymous said...

Hey retard, ever heard of Ubuntu? It's an acronym for "Ubuntu is the no-choice Linux u bitch about"

blackbelt_jones said...

Okay, that was a joke. I really sort of like this blog, and I think it has a lot to teach the linux community about some of the problems.

Linux is going to have to be good at being Windows in order to really compete. It's not fair, but that's the way it is. It's not there yet, and the time I've spent here has given me some insights into what needs to be improved. People who like Linux the way it is aren't going to intuitively understand these things. Some prodding is needed, and I think you may be doing us areal service.

Just one word of advice: if you want to have credibility as a satire, be careful to keep the real hate out. I've seen comments in here comparing Linux users to Hitler and to a rapist. Everybody has their own opinion of the line between "funny" and "ugly". I'm willing to respect yours... as long as you have one. You have to be careful if you don't your smart concept to devolve into yet another internet cesspool.

blackbelt_jones said...

Actually, Ubuntu comes from an ancient African word meaning "deeply overrated".

h1d said...

Linux - Linux Is Nearly Ultimate eXtasy

yay for 200.

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