Thursday, July 3, 2008

KDE fork-dot-zero

As a shit-storm chaser, it's been fun watching the fecal hurricane that has resulted from the KDE4 devs chucking their shit-pile 4.0 into the proverbial fan that is the internets.

With this theme in mind, today, I'd like to call out the jack-assery of a particular kind of luser: the luser journalist. Typically, these journalists occupy positions of large influence (or they believe they have influence, at least) and they pontificate their opinions that show they don't have any idea how anything works.

Two in particular I'd like to say WTF! to: Mr. Ryan Paul of Ars Technica, and Mr. Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols. Steven is a former Ziff-Davis Editor, who's been publicly ranting against KDE4, and recently even called for a fork. Ryan is a born-again KDE4 apologist. He recently posted this article to counter Steven's ranting.

You know, it's really nice that you guys are having a nice open public shit eating contest like this, but it really pisses me off at the same time, because you are both wrong.

Steven says:

But, I doubt it. I pick up new desktops and interfaces all the time. Switching from one system to another is second-nature to me. KDE 4.1 has taken KDE down a path I don’t want to follow. So, I have a suggestion. Fork KDE.

This is open source. All forking a project really requires is that developers and end-users decide that another path is a better path. So it is that I’m suggesting that if some developers decided that they could build a better KDE by revisiting KDE 3.5’s vision of the desktop, they’d find many users more than willing to give it a try.


Oh really? is that all that a fork requires? Cuz you know, I thought it meant that users and developers not only have to agree on what they want (which is much harder than agreeing on what they don't want), and then they have to write the code, test the code, and maintain the code. Multiply that by the size of the code and distribute it over the fewer number of heads you'll have joining your cause.

And, besides, what are you going to call it, FunKDE4?

Then Ryan responds by saying KDE4 is not so bad. And how he was skeptical at first, but how he believes, blah blah, and ends with:

I encourage users to look beneath the surface and try to understand how the emerging features fit into the long-term roadmap. There is a lot to like in KDE 4.1 if you are willing to approach it with an open mind and not simply dismiss it because it's different.


Ah ok. I'll go ahead and encourage my grandma to understand that there's this QT4 thing, you see? and that there's these things called plasmoids which aren't bursts of hot intenstinal gas, but rather an abstract concept that you have to understand just to get part of your familiar desktop back. And I'll tell her to just wait a few months or years so that she can get all the things she used to use. I'm sure she'll be really happy with that. Seriously, her time on this earth is limited, but she'll spend the rest of it learning about her new desktop that has little boxes that look like cum stains.

Seriously guys, what the fuck. As serious journalists, shouldn't you guys keep in mind what actual users might want?

This is a classic example of open source devs making a mistake. Most existing users of KDE3 (or any desktop for that matter) want incremental improvements. They use KDE3 because they already like it. They don't want a "sexy" new desktop. Changing everything from out and underneath them will not make them happy.

If KDE4 is so radically different, then they should have called it something else. Having the 4 implies that users of 3 will eventually be forced to upgrade, not because they want to, but because 3 will bitrot and devs will only care about 4. That's what the users are reacting to. They don't understand why they should have to learn something new that isn't significantly better than it was before.

Why didn't the KDE devs decide to just start writing parts of KDE in Qt4? Who knows. Cuz it wasn't sexy? Probably. Unfortuantely, most computer users don't care if the devs are sexy, or whether they're working on sexy features. They want to keep what they have, and get more stuff that helps them do more.

Is KDE4 significantly better? Who knows. It might be. It might not be. Was it worth jeapordizing the reputation of a popular project to find out? Probably not. Was it worth making it seem like it was an entire re-write when the same functionality could have probably been brought in incrementally? Definitely not. But you know, the devs aren't ever held responsible for what they do. So don't expect any sanity.

Personally, I don't give a shit. KDE can go dig it's own grave for what I care. It's just a bunch of devs that want to constantly re-invent things because they think they can do it better. Or people who think that because the toolkit rev'ed, they have to re-write the whole stack. At the same time they ignore the fuck-ton of other problems that the Linux desktop still has. The problems that actually prevent non-KDE users from switching to their platform. Earth to KDE devs: we don't need plasmoids! we want boring, old wireless networking to work.

As for what Steven and Ryan were saying: No. Forking is not the answer. You may be able to separate the sane devs from the lunatic ones, but I'm pretty sure what you'll have left won't be enough to support a codebase as large as KDE. And Ryan's "having an open mind, accepting something different, and being patient" is not the answer either. The rest of the world doesn't have the time for that, especially when there is no clear benefit to adopting the new and different. KDE4 is mostly the same old same old, except my task bar is black and I can group icons. Fun.

So what's the answer? I say fuck 'em all. Go invest your time in something else where the devs aren't so full of themselves. Something where they have some incentive to care about actual users. Cuz if you ask me, both their words and their actions tell me that they don't give a shit. Even about lusers.

131 flames:

Miguel Di Ciurcio Filho said...

Man, this is so true. "Hey, we re-wrote the whole project!" But wait, WTF? I can't resize a damn panel!?! Why I can't put a simple icon on the desktop?!? "We are working on that". Come on.

Bic said...

So Vista is evil because it's a huge step away from XP, but KDE 4 (which basically did the same thing) is the best thing since sliced bread because it's a radical step away from KDE 3? And Microsoft is evil for forcing people to "upgrade", while "upgrading" from KDE 3 to 4 is "progress"?

Linux devs/zealots. What a bunch of hypocrites.

* Note: I'm not defending Vista (it has its own idiosyncrasies), I'm merely using it as an example.

Anonymous said...

This was the most misguided post on this blog ever. KDE4 is nothing but KDE3 written using QT4's new features in mind. Some apps are in for drastic overhauls (like Amarok, Krita and the whole office suite), while new apps with new KDE4 features has been designed (such as Dolphin using Nepomuk search). Everyone likes to pick on Plasma. To be honest, it's just too early to judge its impact on what it has set out to do, yet I feel knowing the FOSS devs, it will end up doing the same thing it does today - only with less crashes and a more complicated interface. All in one, if it can run a number of widgets from different sources like Dashboard and Windows and Opera, then at least it will have achieved SOMETHING useful. How it will re-invent the desktop...is unknown. And I don't see it happening, not with Plasma anyhow.

In any case, KDE4 was a great step for the project. KDE3.5 was a horrible mess. The interface was cluttered for almost all the apps. The design was getting stagnant and the project had no direction. At its base, all KDE apps were abominations following no HIG. At least KDE4 has one. Let's just be thankful they are actually using a single toolbar for their apps this time...

linuxfailures said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
linuxfailures said...

I just made KDE4 beta 2 crash after 20 seconds of use woohoo.

thecodewitch said...

Excellent post!!

Did anyone read this:
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3535

Here is a revealing quote:

"KDE, like many other open-source projects, doesn't really need users at all, whether they are poisonous or not."

The developers complain that some users are being rude, demanding some bugs be fixed, or some features added. They complain about this as though its a bad thing!!!

Here's a clue - being told to fix a bug, or add a feature, even if the message rude, IS A GOOD THING, you idiots!!

Why?? Because it means there are people who are using it, and tolerating it long enough into taking the time to give you feedback about it!

As sad and disheartened as you are now at having received insulting emails from ungrateful "poisonous users", just imagine how worse you'd feel if instead of receiving insult laden demands for bugs to be fixed, you didn't receive anything at all, because everybody has long stopped giving a shit about your broken, ego stroking, software!!

And if that is actually your goal, why continue to trick people into installing your broken, useless software??

Anonymous said...

...and somewhere, Miguel de Icaza must be jumping up and down with joy.

Fuck KDE, I could never use it. It simply looks horrible to me. Instead of making the desktop the most clean and straight-forward environment possible they have added "plasmoids".

I just don't get it. While some users are starting to use programs such as GNOME Do, that effectively remove the need to interact with the desktop graphically, KDE is still pushing in that direction.

It just looks tacky... Not that it matters, but mac users would certainly cry all the way to Jobs after having a quick glance at KDE.

Eugenia said...

Exactly. Basically, it boils down to this: it is only "fun" to program the 90% of the project. The rest 10% is a bitch to deal with, and no one wants to do that. But you see, it's that extra 10% that makes one product better than the other. Instead of having developers sitting down and fixing whatever it's to be fixed, they throw away code, and they rewrite that 90%.

Why? I already explained that. It's because that's the fun part.

I do not disagree with full rewrites, but do a rewrite where it makes sense, e.g. fixing the Linux desktop in general (from 3D drivers to a modern windowing system that doesn't suck), not just rewriting a new front-end. Either do the full job, or only try to optimize and fix what you already got if you don't have the guts for the big job.

Anonymous said...

Shit, dude, this time I got to disagree.
Kde 4 is still in development, kde4 was a massive beta release, nothing more.

For all intents and purposes, kde 3.5 branch is still the stable branch, while kde 4.1 branch will become the stable branch when ready..

IMHO, end users need not use kde 4 for the time being.

Anonymous said...

.. and I've forgot the point.
Kde 3.5 became a massive spaghetti-shit, the design became convoluted and patchy, and it was time to refactor, like any other big software project.
So it was refactored, and that's a good thing.
Until the aftermath of the refactoring will be over, it's still a fucking beta, and as such, not meant to be used by end-users.
Go use kde 3.5 (terrible mess) or gnome (stagnate, dying project), in the mean time, they're more or less workable NOW.

@linuxfailures
it's a fucking beta, what did you expect?

PS:
IMHO, the Linux Desktop is a fucking failure, where most of the end-user (and most of the developer) applications are far inferior to the propriety counterparts, and where most of the system libraries are fucking terrible, slow, based on outdated design, and in general, a clusterfuck. KDE 4 may be the only shot at relevance that the linux desktop got, because they at least trying to clean their shit after them.

Eugenia said...

>Kde 4 is still in development, kde4 was a massive beta release, nothing more.

Riiiiiight... that's why it's called 4.0 and 4.1, yes?

If it was a beta, it should have been called 4.0-pre or 3.90. YES, naming does matter when you are dealing with normal users. Because a point zero release traditionally indicates stability, plus, the KDE folks never said in their press release that this was a "beta". It's you, the apologist, who says that, to cover KDE's stupidity.

I suggest you stop saying that, because no one is buying it.

Anonymous said...

If you look back at previous releases of KDE they were not complete and feature rich at the *.0 mark. Most distros still ship with 3.5 and some will let you choose 4.0 if you really want it.

KDE 4.1 will most likely be a step in the right direction, bringing back much of that complete configuration 3.5 offers.

And look at it this way us linux users have a choice on what desktop environment we want, whether it be KDE, GNOME, Xfce, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, etc....

Have fun with that lame Vista interface asshats.

software engineer said...

What do you expect? They're tech journalists. They're every bit as lazy and stupid as their colleagues in the regular media.

Anonymous said...

Man, I thought this blog was good until I read this article.

For a minute there I thought you'd managed to trump Ars, but it turns out your reading comprehension is par with your readers'.

linuxfailures said...

"it's a fucking beta, what did you expect?"

I spect to not crash after 20 seconds of use when is just a month to be released, I call it pre-alpha, not beta.

When KDE 4.0 RCx was released they gave the same excuse "Is not out yet", when KDE 4.0 was released they made another excuse "Waith for KDE 4.1" and after KDE 4.1 is released the excuse is "Waith a year or more for KDE 4.2", no thx.

KDE4 is a mess , a failure but your proud and egos won't admit it.

It was the same with KDE3, I remember how everybody claimed KDE3 was the shit, the best API the best [Insert hyped phrase here], now results it was a mess, It always was a mess but lame marketing always try to cover the smell of the shit.

The worse is that KDE4 doesn't have that surprise hiden anymore, Im sure they spected a lot of wows with plasma, but there aren't, And when they finally make plasma not crach after 5 seconds then It will be to late, the surprise factor is gone, is dissapointing.

h1d said...

users give money -> devs work for users.

devs work for free -> devs work for their own interest. at best, work for their closest person's interest not a person beyond.

so...yeah. we can see the picture and why it stinks to average people who don't run vim and patch command everyday.

does anyone even have any clue of how to run a business in the linux desktop world? they always try to make things 'free' of price, even spending alot of cash like canonical without getting it back from the users, than trying to circulate the money through the users and devs.

since when does free business work? is it so hard to grasp this concept even a 10 year old can understand?

i guess their basement is too comfy with gadgets and fast compilers to care about how world runs.

so, yeah, great effort so far. it is moving at a snail pace to a confused direction.

Bodhibuilder said...

Wow. Your blog is sure a huge rude awakening. Frustrated with Windows and being constantly bombed by that propaganda about what a great system Linux is a lot of users are bound to try it. Then they find, that for the system to work and show its brilliance they just got to do this, copy/paste this into console, google for this, write petition here, get rid of this, buy that or just wait patiently till everyone understands what a great thing OSS is and write all the necessary drivers and so on, otherwise you're just plain stupid. A lot of us were caught by that line of thinking, because the shit is being revealed little by little. Thus some people never get the full picture and think that failrue of Linux is just the matter of small "if only"s and the global Microsoft conspiracy. That's were your blog comes to play. This "KDE doesn't need users" prick was the last nail to the coffin. Keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

Dear Gnome Devs,

Re: Gnome 3

Please read above post.

kthxbye

Anonymous said...

Thankfully the GNOME team doesn't have it's head quite as far up its ass. They've already said there's no point in making a GNOME 3 just to add flashy things, there's no reason to break API and ABI, and there's no reason that they can't continue to improve incrementally, releasing small updates as they have been.

There's no reason, that is, until GNOME 3 actually provides something. And the the community already points at KDE 4 as an example of a really stupid, pointless, disastrous project.

To Aaron Seigo:
Fuck you. Your videos suck, you advertised KDE 4 by bragging about how you can add/remove and rotate an analog clock widget, and you're a complete fucking moron with so many shit projects that no one's quite sure where the smell is coming from. Way to suck.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I love KDE! KDE4 series isn't ready yet so I don't use it nor care about it. Next Debian 5.0 release will include KDE 3.5.9 which I know works reliably. Let Ubuntu users do the beta testing for KDE 4.1 and so. I'll switch to KDE4 series when it's released in Debian. Likely it's Debian 6.0 in about 2010. I don't like beta desktops.

Anonymous said...

The real reason the KDE devs have been making "we don't need users" comments is because users don't like their product.

If everyone was saying how great KDE 4 was, it would be the opposite. They would be raving about how it is all about the users, and "see how happy we've made them, we're great!"

Reality:
1. End users don't like KDE4. (Except a few KDE fanboys who really don't like it, just have to go out of their way to *always* stick up for KDE)
2. The devs don't like it as much as they claim, they are just too full of pride to admit it.
3. KDE4 is the Vista of the Open Source World.

Anonymous said...

"To Aaron Seigo:
Fuck you. Your videos suck, you advertised KDE 4 by bragging about how you can add/remove and rotate an analog clock widget, and you're a complete fucking moron with so many shit projects that no one's quite sure where the smell is coming from. Way to suck."

He is an arrogant fuck and reading his blog and seeing him speak is why I will never use kde again...or at least until he is shut up by the community. Then there is the whole, kde4 is garbage part but I said fuck kde before I even bothered trying the stupid plasmoid shit.

Anonymous said...

This shows one way in which the open source model is worse even than Microsoft: As long as Microsoft can convince everyone to keep paying them, they will try to do as little work as possible. Only when people start to question the necessity of upgrading do they start screwing everything up. On the other hand, open source developers aren't trying to get money but attention. This is even worse because if you stop changing the desktop you will get absolutely no attention at all. Thus, the incentive is to keep rewriting everything so that people will have no choice but to be distracted by your useless changes. In contrast, Gnome, by virtue of having many professional developers, is grown-up enough to settle for incremental changes that don't get much attention but actually improve its usability.

Anonymous said...

"KDE4 is the Vista of the Open Source World."

I didn't think someone was capable of making such a stupid claim. Last time I checked KDE4 used LESS memory than the 3.5 series. And Vista uses MORE memory than XP, alot more.

So, before you make a claim at least get a fucking brain and actually do a bit of research instead of asserting this is true.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous above me:
L-O-FUCKING-L

Dumbass. First, you're wrong about KDE 4 using less memory. Running the same apps under the same conditions, KDE 4 can use almost twice as much memory as 3.x (170 megs vs 97 megs). Moron. Even KDE devs aren't stupid enough to believe KDE 4 uses less memory, and they've said as much (admittedly worded differently).

Second, so what if KDE 4 did use less memory? You completely ignored the actual comparison the original poster made between Vista and KDE 4, mentioned one single item, and drew the incredibly unfounded conclusion that KDE 4 was in no way the Vista of the FOSS world. That's like me saying that Firefox isn't like Opera because Firefox doesn't include an e-mail client. It's nonsense, and only an idiot would say it.

You are a complete and total moran.

Anonymous said...

> Exactly. Basically, it boils down to this: it is only "fun" to program the 90% of the project. The rest 10% is a bitch to deal with, and no one wants to do that. But you see, it's that extra 10% that makes one product better than the other. Instead of having developers sitting down and fixing whatever it's to be fixed, they throw away code, and they rewrite that 90%.

The fact that an application even requires a re-write, is an indication that original program was poorly written, unadaptive for the future and in dire need of an overhaul. You will never see this happening in applications which are actually designed excellently. An interesting comparison can be made to the Mac scene. On OSX, we have open-source applications like Transmission and Adium - both brilliantly designed, taking the requests of their users and a lesson in good GUI-making. What's more interesting is that Adium actually uses a Linux-app as its base, Pidgin. If there was a more clear case where an open-source project trumped another using sound design principles, I cannot find one.

But there is also a fundamental difference in the way applications are written. For OSX, they are made with stringent human-interface guidelines. Apple has a thorough and usable guide for developers. GNOME has one too, but the enforcement of it is widely inconsistent, which defeats the purpose of the guidelines in the first place. Last I heard, KDE3 had none, and one was being developed for KDE4. However, I cannot find the one for KDE4 anywhere - an indication that it was perhaps never made, or that its obscurity will ensure that it remains useless as no developers actually use it. Even so, it will ensure that KDE4 follows the same design disaster as KDE3. It's really just a matter of time. At this stage, KDE4 is still early in development. Only when the pieces of the DE start coming together, will people realise, that except for a few good apps and new technologies (like Nepomuk and Dolphin), KDE4 is really just a flashier KDE3, with the same fundamental usablity issues.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous above:

"The fact that an application even requires a re-write, is an indication that original program was poorly written, unadaptive for the future and in dire need of an overhaul. You will never see this happening in applications which are actually designed excellently."

Um, no, dude. The fact that devs are rewriting applications only tells you that those devs want to rewrite applications. It doesn't tell you whether it was NECESSARY or a GOOD IDEA. Look around at typical FOSS projects: There's so much Not-Invented-Here (NIH) thinking that it's not surprising that they throw out the baby with the bath water, and start from scratch. That's the PROBLEM! Professional developers don't just throw everything out in one kneejerk motion without carefully evaluating the codebase, and decide whether it's possible to migrate forward incrementally. That's almost ALWAYS the preferred option, unless the existing codebase is a stinking pile. Continual rewriting is a sure sign of incompetence, if there ever was one.

Anonymous said...

You're two stupid fucktards with no knowledge what so ever about how software development works.

Stop pulling argument out of your asses (because clearly, you're as clueless as shit), and pay some attention:

1. No software design is ever, whatever the IQ or the experience of the developers, sufficient for eternity. Requirements , base assumptions are changed, and new pattern emerge; that's the time the design is refactored, and fucking changed. If you think Adium never changed its design, you're a stupid inborn fucker.

2. When refactoring, most of the code DOES NOT get thrown away. Nobody is stupid enough to get rid of his hard work. Written code is reused, and REFACTORED into a new form.

3. A beta is a beta is a beta. Expecting stability from a beta is like expecting low gas millage from the your fucking SUV, you fucking clueless moron, it's not going to happen, because it's not intended to.

4. Evolutionary steps and backward compatibility are nice to have, but sometimes needs to get broken. Even the mighty Apple and revered Microsoft do so when necessary, because otherwise you're keeping you're mistakes forever.

5. Vista is quite a good OS, if you're bashing it without using it, you're a fucking moron that doesn't deserve to sit next to a keyboard, no mentioning using one.
The reason Vista seems to use more memory is its aggressive caching. You want all available memory to be used, you fucking moron - if not for applications, then for cache; otherwise, it's just sitting there, doing nothing. Having tons of free memory doesn't make your penis longer, it just means the OS isn't managing it well.

Now you fucktards can go on flaming and bashing like the clueless shitheads you are, while us developers watch you fling poo at each other.

Carry on, apes!

Anonymous said...

"Carry on, apes!"

HAHAHHA YES. SO YES.

Anonymous said...

first: im an emo linux user and love your blog.

second: "The people is stupid, they dont know want wants".

dont forget that, the people designed the ui of osX, of win3.1, of gnome, of kde3/4 ???. not. only use the desktop, what the devs give to them.

kde4 sucks because the taskbar cant be changed, sucks why the the tray icon dont show 2 rows. come on. even a monkey understand that the software is "under heave dev", even my sistem, far from a geek or advanced users dont say nothing about the taskbar, she know that the devs are working, doing more important thing for now.

is really sad that when the devs try the give to kde4 a lot of new ideas, the closed mind users and devs want to kill them, why, because dont have "icon on the dekstop".

really, the people is stupid and dont know what they want.(until find, of course)

Linus Torvalds said...

The Linux desktop, always twirling, twirling, twirling towards progress.

Blau Zahl said...

Wow. Since when did personal attacks on *one* developer become ok? Especially when he's only one guy from an entire software project.

luminoso said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fresch said...

I'll start this of with the (in)famous quote: "If you don't like it, don't use it." And since it is also open source software you don't even have to spend any money on it. Nobody ever forced you into using and getting used to KDE. EXCEPT you yourself. It was your choice to begin with. As is your choice to now suck it up, get used to KDE 4 or move to other desktop environments (GNOME, XFCE, WinXP, Vista, Mac OS, whatever.)

Oh, and it's not like the KDE 4 developers just got up one morning and decided to release their new software that isn't quite complete yet, or even usable... this has been a long time coming, it has been discussed quite a lot. There have been many announcements made, there even exists a roadplan for KDE that you and other could have looked at to see what's coming after KDE 3.5. You could have joined the discussions... but you didn't and now you complain (again, for something you don't have to use and you don't have to pay.)

No, the developers doing the work don't give a shit what the users think! They create open source as a self-gratifing, educational experience (at least most of them.) If that so happens to produce something you and others can use, that's just a coincidence. Really!

You call elitism on that, I call it different domains of occupation. While a developer is also a user, a user doesn't have to be a developer. So what is good and enough for a developer does not have to satisfy anything a user needs.

Developers are people who are usually attracted by new technology, they might be geeks, nerds, freaks, whatever. They simply tick different from a "normal" person (whatever that is.) So when they develop new software they naturally concern themselves more with the technology than with useability or artwork or simple, clean configuration GUIs.

Now that I think about what I just wrote there, I have to conclude that I am a developer, and I actually do not care what users like you think about my software (that I am writing to satisfy my own interests, my curiosity and my eagerness to learn and understand about software development.) I am, however, hoping that there is at least a shred of hope for humanity, and that somehow I can reach at least one person, sensible enough to actually stop for a moment and reflect on the situation, before running off, crying foul and offending a lot of people.

Then again, I choose to reply to this and I am also aware this is just the authors opinion, and they fortunately tend to be diverse.

Too bad you don't like it... *comforting-pat-on-shoulder*

Anonymous said...

"[i]If you don't like it, don't use it.[/i]"

Keep repeating that. More and more people are listening. As in "not using KDE4".

Anonymous said...

Someone should take BeOS as an example, and make something like 'the tracker'.

Anonymous said...

To all morons who say "If you don't like it, don't use it":

IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR COMMENTS, DON'T FUCKING READ THEM. MORONS.

Seriously, it's a lame way of dealing with disagreeing with someone or being offended. Imbeciles like you should check their keyboards at the door.

Hamish said...

Why do you even put in the effort to write these articles? You must care about these platforms to do it as it takes time and effort. If I was a developer this would be invaluable feedback. The best way to destroy projects is to offer nothing.

sw engineer said...

all you guys are retards. Make a damn product I can use. Don't release shit like Vista or KDE4. Learn some shit from Steve Jobs!

Linus Torvalds said...

Some people did take a lesson from BeOS and they're working on Haiku.

Anonymous said...

From what I understand, you are complaining that is not necessary develop a new version of KDE when KDE3 was getting obsolet? that's stu***. Then why apple is always upgrading macOSX and Microsoft their windows?
I think that technology always have to improve and KDE devs thought that this was the path to improve.
We can't always stick to a model that was invented 20 years ago, one day we will have to change.

Anonymous said...

> No software design is ever, whatever the IQ or the experience of the developers, sufficient for eternity. Requirements , base assumptions are changed, and new pattern emerge; that's the time the design is refactored, and fucking changed. If you think Adium never changed its design, you're a stupid inborn fucker.

A good design will never require frequent re-writes. A good application is that which is adaptive of the future, extensible and which follows some form a guideline and/or vision. All of those are missing from open-source apps. You are only looking at an application from its code level while I see it from its GUI and design perspective as well. This is especially true for KDE apps since the developers never say who their target audience is, which is why their apps are such a clusterfuck in the first place and a headache to actually use. On top of that, OSX APIs are far more efficient than open-source ones. Major revisions and refactoring are not uncommon in good applications but the difference with good app design is that they will never abandon its fundamentally good qualities. Take a look at Amarok 2 for an example. The entire interface has changed with little resemblance to the one before. The KDE devs had no idea before and they don't know, and to them re-writing for QT4 is just an excuse to get it right again but the lack of any sound design principals will again come and bite them in the ass.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous
A design that never requires frequent redesign is usually an over-design - a turing complete api, that expand and anticipates every possible future change.

It usually means that it's huge, unwieldy, and contains so many abstractions and pre-requisites, that writing the actual beast is almost an impossible task, changing it is close to impossible, and the time it requires for maintainance and development is close to infinite.
In short, it's a pie-in-the-sky product, that never goes to the market when it's still relevant.
COM is a good example to over engineering.

Go back to software design 101, poo flinger!

Tilen said...

Kudos to those brave anonymous monkeys, who directly attacked Seigo with such a nice vocabulary. That had to be top or your day...
And congratz to Eugenia for linking this just-waiting-to-get-Pulitzer piece of journalism to what's suppose to be some serious os news page. You are one loli indeed. (you know, I never tell a lie, oh sweet irony)
Guess there really is everything on the web.

Anonymous said...

care to write an article on Reiser4?
seems like another hot linux topic you may find interesting.

Anonymous said...

I use Linux because I need to use it. It is part of my job. However, I really love your blog. One of the best haters blog.

Anonymous said...

> A good design will never require frequent re-writes.

The KDE 3.0 was released in 2002, six years ago. And it wasn't such a big step from series 2, which were first released in 2000.

So, it is no more rewrites (I would even say less) than in the Windows world.

Anonymous said...

Why I don't see any ads in this blog? Shouldn't you write this for free money and try to make yourself cool.


Oh I forgot,, I'm using AdBlocks...

No money for you. As*hole.

Anonymous said...

why dont you just fuck off and go back to sucking windows ceo's balls you misinformed jerf off

Anonymous said...

Moved to XFCE, very very happy, fuck KDE!

Anonymous said...

If you look back at previous releases of KDE they were not complete and feature rich at the *.0 mark.

Exactly the point. You think somewhere along the line they would have learned but no.
In the last 8 years of using GNU/Linux I have learned one thing. The customer is never right. It's just a group of devs giving each other reach-arounds after downing a few pints. Don't believe me? Get to know the Debian community.
I'm trying out KDE 4.1 an really don't have anything bad to say about it yet, but they follow the same theme Windows does (as usual). Change for changes sake. Since Apple (f*ck you Jobs) released OS10 everyone has been pissing thier pants about DE presentation. So Apple (f*ck you Jobs) got lucky with Steve-O bringing around the NEXT system one more time. Big deal.
Maybe, just maybe, if there as many brain cells working on actual production applications that ran on QT and GTK instead of throwing another coat of paint on the walls Linux would actually...*gasp* progress without just trying to look like it.

Anonymous said...

Stick with your windows guys and I hope that your windows will shit like it always do... The point guys is that I understand you not like it, but shut up because you could not do better and they tried to do someting good that is free. Your point of view is so stupid, why are you attaking people that trying to do good things? Are you pay by Bill Gates or your sucking is dick? That's the real question man ;)

Anonymous said...

ANd by the way, if you erase my comment it's because you know that I have reason and you don't want to admit it... Kde 4.0 was not for daily use, but Vista was and it's a big shit taht cost 99$ to 600$ u.s Dollars. Sincery, you should talk about this because everyone know there that microsoft put there format in everything and tried to kill all competition. You are just the toys of the big machine guys!!!

Pi said...

Seriously, her time on this earth is limited, but she'll spend the rest of it learning about her new desktop that has little boxes that look like cum stains.


Okay.... so we don't know the offical logo of the Python language. Lets start from scratch the python icon looks like this, http://absynth-ftp.lineheight.net/images/python_icon.gif

Now no one is forcing you to use KDE 4 welcome to linux you can choose what you want to use. KDE3 will not bitrot because they are still supporting it, it's seen I think 1 or 2 new patches since KDE4 was announced. If there's enough interest KDE3 will stay alive because the code is still there and someone else can support it. THink about this as all Microsoft programmers moving to Apple. nobody will support windows anymore because the code is proprietary. However KDE3 can still see support. Understand now?

Pi said...

Also I love your comments on the linux community. You're obviously not part of the community if you're an end user. The true spirit of linux that it's for developers and by developers in order to be part of that you actually have to submit fixes and help write code. Most of these people aren't getting paid and are giving their own time back to the community to keep projects and the OS alive, however you're not so I don't see why you're even writing this blog.

Anonymous said...

"The reason Vista seems to use more memory is its aggressive caching."

While this is true and a common practice in most OS's it doesn't change the fact that Vista requires more memory for just the base interface. Plus alot of windows applications such as IE, and Visual Studio are complete memory hogs. So, for an average machine with 1G of memory you would notice drastic performance changes with only two apps open.

However, on the Linux end, Firefox and Kdevelop take up far less memory and the performance remains good.

Most people don't "upgrade" to Vista because the machine might not be able to run it effectively. Honestly how many people just bought a new machine with Vista pre-installed?

Anonymous said...

Weapon grade bullshit, my friend.
Please compare apples to apples, not to oranges.
The closest equivalent to VS + intellisense in FOSS land is eclipse v3.4.
I actually liked eclipse (although it crashed like a motherfucker), until I saw something interesting: a simple "Hello World" C program consumed 240mb of memory, while at the same time, a full fledged solution in VS (with about 10 projects), consumed 80mb (with the intellisense add-on).
In short, eclipse is a fucking memory hog.

I've used Kdevelop, and it's an extremely weak clone of VS 6.

You can make similar comparison between openoffice and ms-office, ubuntu and vista, etc.

The main theme will be: FOSS applications are much slower, take more memory, and have less features than their propriety counterparts, while offering close to zero innovation, if that.

The ONLY exception so far has been Firefox, which I love to pieces. Firefox's ONLY innovation was using extensions, and ONLY in version 3 it became a worthy contender to Opera.
Please remember that Firefox is sponsored by 100m$ a year from Google.

The only other FOSS project that have any _potential_ is KDE4, because they actually try and do something new in the DE arena.

EVERYTHING else, including openoffice, eclipse, VLC, pidgin (I use it, but it's stagnate), gnome, gtk, the gimp, songbird (which I like, but is piss slow),Compiz (because it doesn't really work on anything other that Intel integrated graphics) and what have you, are slow, crippled clones of the propriety equivalents.

The reason people don't FOSS is: it sucks. It's a waste of time. It got no visible benefits (and free isn't such a huge feature, when anything else is so vastly inferior. My shit is also free, want to use it as an RSS reader?), and it's being advertised likes the second coming, which creates huge antagonism, especially when in reality it's just third to fifth rate crapware.

Anonymous said...

Sufferring....from....withdrawal....symptoms....

need....linuxhaters blog....posts....

Anonymous said...

Before everyone starts to spread his opinion about KDE 4.0 let me spread some reminders:

* KDE 4.0 is not KDE4 but only the first (4.0.0 even non-bugfix) release in a years-long KDE4 series to come.
* KDE 4.0 is known to have missing parts or temporary implementations (eg printing, PIM, Plasma).
* Most changes happened under the surface and cannot be discovered in a “30 minutes usage”-review anyway.
* User interfaces being unchanged in 4.0 compared to 3.5 may be still changed/improved during KDE4 life time.
* KDE 4.0 will not be the fastest KDE4 release, like for KDE2 most speed optimizations will happen later during KDE4.
* Most applications (many are not even fully ported yet) will take advantage of new features which the new Qt/KDE libraries offer only later.
* Don’t measure portability success (eg MS Windows) by current availability of application releases, they will come.
* KDE 4.0 is only expected to be used by early adopters, not every KDE 3.5 user (and IMHO KDE 4.0 shouldn’t be pushed onto other user types like planned for Kubuntu ShipIt [btw said to have only 6 months support for its packages]).
* KDE 4.1 development will not require the same amount of time as the big technology jump 4.0, expect 4.1 later this year.

Last, again: KDE 4.0 is not KDE4.




CAN YOU FUCKING READ YOU DIPSHIT

Anonymous said...

hey..?
can i tell you something?
..?

i'm a linux user!

and yet i don't start a windows hater blog!

and that, my dear loser, has two reasons:
1 i am a MATURE HUMAN BEING
2 i can think of 10 million better things to do!

so let me share something with you, something that will serve you for the rest of your live. it is a tip my great great grandfather gave to me, just before he passed away

GROW THE FUCK UP

Anonymous said...

boy, there's a lots of hate in the comments :) LOL, I generally enjoy that. Nevertheless, I have to agree, OK, partially, with the author. I've been kde 3 user for the last few years, and I saw many issues on test env with kde4, so it simply doesn't worth trying. I will wait, however, for the bright future, when most of the apps will be ported for KDE 4, I don't wanna live without my favorite apps.
On the other hand, I saw a post saying : open source devs became very rude and careless - well, if you don't want to do it, surrender, there are other people, why bother spreading your shitty mood to the other users ? Please ...

Anonymous said...

To KDE4 fans, I'm really confused: Is KDE4 out of beta or not?

Anonymous said...

I quite like KDE 4 and i look forward to being able to use it properly

Anonymous said...

KDE 4 was hyped like crazy, but it has nothing to offer whatsoever. All it's done thus far is take away from the desktop.

Before 4.0 came out, they said not to file bug reports against the betas, because they knew there were issues.
When 4.0 came out, the devs (Aaron included) flooded the internet with hate messages towards users, blaming them for NOT FILING BUG REPORTS EARLIER, which is EXACTLY WHAT THEY ASKED FOR.

After 4.0 came out, they backed down on the hype (hard to market something people already know sucks) and insisted that people had too high expectations (probably because of their dumbass marketing). Then, they said features and bug fixes would be ready for 4.1. As it stands, 4.1 still is completely unusable for even basic desktop tasks.

And fanboys spend all their time saying, "Yeah, it sucks. But it's OK that it sucks, and here's why...."

And then morons come on here and say it's not OK to criticize something. Hello, you're criticizing someone for criticizing something. Hypocrite much?

Alexei said...

>> Last, again: KDE 4.0 is not KDE4.

Oh, it must be Gnome then.

Alexei said...

>>Sufferring....from....withdrawal....symptoms....
>>need....linuxhaters blog....posts....

Lol. You said it :)

Anonymous said...

Here's another suffering from withdrawal symptoms. Nothing for four days now. Not sure whether I laugh more at the blogs or the humourless idiots who take offense, but whatever, I need the laugh.

Posting this from Ubuntu. :-)

Anonymous said...

I am a linux user and all i have to say to you is get a real job or get your facts right you dumb shit or are you getting paid by microsoft to spread this bullshit or is it you are just a try hard dick who thinks he knows everything which ever it is you must not have much to do if you author this blog why not try linux and see how much better than ms it is if not just SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DICKHEAD

Horatio_Hellpop said...

@anonymous

//and that, my dear loser, has two reasons:
1 i am a MATURE HUMAN BEING...

GROW THE FUCK UP//

Wow, that's just ... wow.

Do you have any idea how much of an idiot you are?

Anonymous said...

KDE has always been the most horrific desktop environment.

The Qt widgets suck. The the widget spacing sucks. The extensive use of menus sucks. The huge motherfucking icons that you can't resize suck midget cock. The huge motherfucking default clock sucks. Konqueror sucks for having vertical text. The default theme sucks ass and looks like shit. aseigo is a motherfucking lunatic "with a vision". He also sucks.

Honestly, I wish all the KDE developers and users and QA testers and anyone who likes KDE went fucking themselves and died a long time ago for catering to that abhorrent piece of shit software.

FUCK YOU KDE! FUCK YOU ASEIGO! TAKE YOUR PLASMA SHIT AND STICK IT INTO YOUR PHONON, YOU MOTHERFUCKING COCKSUCKING EMO KID!

Anonymous said...

@Horatio_Hellpop

So it makes you a "fucking idiot" when you tell someone who's acting like a 5-year old child to grow up?

Damn.. there must be many idiots in the teachers lounge in kindergarten then.

Anonymous said...

@Alexei

Wowww alexei
You're smart dude!
Unbelievable!

It's not KDE4..
what could it be then..
mmmm, let's think about that for a while..

It can't be a banana..
A car then?

Noooo! The only thing it can be is GNOME!

Horatio_Hellpop said...

//So it makes you a "fucking idiot" when you tell someone who's acting like a 5-year old child to grow up?//

You're beyond the biggest dipshit on earth if you don't see the complete irony of the OP's post.

Asshats unite!

Abel Cheung said...

"Instead of having developers sitting down and fixing whatever it's to be fixed, they throw away code, and they rewrite that 90%."

The instant I read this sentence, a word pops out: Enlightenment. E14 as a rewrite, E15 as another rewrite, E16 as yet another rewrite, and E17 as 2 more unfinished rewrites. But Rasterman does not care about any user base at all, so that's actually ok for personal hobby projects.

blackbelt_jones said...

I love Linux, but I think I also love your blog. Strange, isn't it?

Okay, on one level I think KDE4 may well turn out to be awesome, if you're into that kind of thing... but what I really think is that all Desktop environments are bullshit. A good window manager (I like fluxbox) in combination with a good graphical file manager (I like Konqueror) allows me fast access to whatever I want. I have a single pull-down menu I created and organized myself, I can do anything I want with a keyboard shortcut, and if I want icons, I open up Konqueror, and there they are. The point is I don't need to have everything spread out in front of me in order to be able to get to everything any time I want. I can have things out of the way when I need them. When I want to use the desktop, with all it's icons and files kept handy, I use Konqueror to open the directory named "Desktop" which is always a click away. All the icons and files behave exactly like a KDE desktop. I can hit the button marked "GO" in Konqueror and there's an applications menu, fast access to the trash bin, etc.

Yeah, Konqueror. The problem is that even if Desktop environments are bullshit, they're still the best source of desktop applications. So I have to care about KDE4, and what it means for Konqueror.

The party line is that Konqueror isn't going to be affected, but I'm not finding a filter bar in KDE4's Konqueror, and that totally screws up my whole trip.

Konqueror isn't really a great web browser, at least if you need plugins and shit, but because it's a file manager that reads html, it means that I can create a local html page that can do just about anything or go just about anywhere with an HTML link. Dolphin can't do that. But without a filter bar, I can't use Konqueror as well as I used to as a filemanager. I'm gonna have to jump back and forth between Konqueror and Dolphin.


This is a really small thing to care about, but... I do! Change is painful, change is scary, when you don't have control. That's human nature, and no one should be surprised by that. Allowances should be made, or people will freak out. KDE is placing responsibility for their public relations on the public, and that's going to inevitably cause problems.


But the software is going to be around, long after I've adjusted, and long after the public relations problem has passed.
But the

Pi said...

@blackbelt_jones

Konqueror is currently the fastest Linux browser available. Safari is actually based off of it. For KDE4 Konq's webkit got reported with the fixes that Apple put in it. It litterally went
Konqueror in KDE 3-> Apple Webkit -> Konqueror in KDE 4

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pi said...

@blackbelt_jones
"Konqueror isn't really a great web browser"

blackbelt_jones said...

That's nice. WTF is Safari? Did I say Konqueror was slow? Where is this coming from?

blackbelt_jones said...

What I said was:

Konqueror isn't really a great web browser, at least if you need plugins and shit.

I could be wrong about that. I'm wrong about things all the time, but you're not really going there, are you?

blackbelt_jones said...

Anonymous Bic said...

So Vista is evil because it's a huge step away from XP, but KDE 4 (which basically did the same thing) is the best thing since sliced bread because it's a radical step away from KDE 3? And Microsoft is evil for forcing people to "upgrade", while "upgrading" from KDE 3 to 4 is "progress"?

Linux devs/zealots. What a bunch of hypocrites.


You know, I've never actually heard (or read) anyone specifically saying that Vista is evil because it's a huge step away from XP.

I'm sure you can find someone from the Linux developer community who said that, and I'm sure you can probably find someone in the Linux Developer community who said something vaugely similar to KDE 4 is the best thing since sliced bread because it's a radical step away from KDE 3. In order to demonstrate hypocrisy, they would have to be the same person. And then you've only got one hypocrite.

If you campaign for Obama, and your father votes for McCain, it doesn't prove that your whole family is "a bunch of hypocrites."

Pi said...

@BlackBelt_Jones
Depends what plugins you need. All netscape/firefox "plugins" can be run in Konqueror. However what you're probably talking about is extensions. In that case yes it's lacking support for Firefox extensions however it has it's own extension framework, you cannot blame the community for not writing extensions, it all depends on the popularity of the browser. One of the most common Firefox extensions is AdBlock and Konqueror has that functionality actually built into itself.

blackbelt_jones said...

If it was a beta, it should have been called 4.0-pre or 3.90. YES, naming does matter when you are dealing with normal users. Because a point zero release traditionally indicates stability, plus, the KDE folks never said in their press release that this was a "beta". It's you, the apologist, who says that, to cover KDE's stupidity.

They totally botched the PR, and they refuse to acknowledge that. Some of the critics have been abusive assholes, so now the thing is to speak of all critics together in a group, in order to portray everyone who was confused and frustrated by the whole by "KDE 4.0 isn't KDE4" thing a "flamer", a "childish ranter", "a fud-spreader". The public is being held responsible for KDE's public relations. They blame the journalists, the users, nothing is their fault.

...BUT...

Don't mistake bad public relations for bad software. None of this means it won't be great in the end. These people are a bunch of stubborn SOBs. I mean that in a good way and in a bad way. I think they're going to get it working eventually. It's going to take longer than they thought, but doesn't everything? Vista sure did.


Anonymous said...

Shit, dude, this time I got to disagree.
Kde 4 is still in development, kde4 was a massive beta release, nothing more.

For all intents and purposes, kde 3.5 branch is still the stable branch, while kde 4.1 branch will become the stable branch when ready..

IMHO, end users need not use kde 4 for the time being.


Yeah, but take a look at the KDE website. Go to the homepage. All about KDE4. Now, click on the link that says "Download> Stable Version". You have to see it to believe it. You really have to search to find that KDE 3.5 exists.

I mentioned this to people on the KDE - promo mailing list (I was a member for about a day) and the responses that I got were "We're proud of KDE4" That's so not the point. People go to the website for information. KDE 3 is still being supported. It's the default for most distros. That means people should know about it.


See, it's just awful public relations from beginning to end. But it's just public relations. KDE3 is still being supported, there's another version coming out in a couple of months. Nothing is pushing users to KDE too soon, except the hype. When the website puts promotion and "pride" before information, that's hype.

But whatever the hell they're doing, it's clearly something new in the world. I think it might just live up to the hype in the end. I want them to succeed, and I think they're too stubborn to give up before they do.

blackbelt_jones said...

Pi said...

@BlackBelt_Jones
Depends what plugins you need. All netscape/firefox "plugins" can be run in Konqueror. However what you're probably talking about is extensions. In that case yes it's lacking support for Firefox extensions however it has it's own extension framework, you cannot blame the community for not writing extensions, it all depends on the popularity of the browser. One of the most common Firefox extensions is AdBlock and Konqueror has that functionality actually built into itself.


Well, at first glance, I think that makes me part wrong. Being wrong in these discussion is okay by me, because it means I get new, valuble information. Being right gets me bupkis. It's peripheral to my original point, but I appreciate the information.

How about flashplayer?

And can you tell me anything about how to get a filter bar in Konqueror for KDE 4.1?

Pi said...

@BlackBelt_Jones
I have flashplayer running, I could guide you through it it's not a very hard process. In order to figure out the filter bar I'll have to upgrade to KDE 4.1. However I can do all of this tomorrow possibly later in the evening after I finish upgrades and repartitioning to my computer.

The flashplayer you must find out which directory it is installed on your system. So via your Package manager you must find the packages file list. Next you must include the library files in the plugin path of Konqueror's search.

blackbelt_jones said...

Thanks for the offer, but right now I'm pretty happy with Firefox BUT you sure won't catch me talking shit about Konqueror the browser anymore!

You know, it always happens that when I say I can't do something in Linux, someone is going to correct me. I have come to expect it and welcome it. (Within reason) there's almost always a way to do almost anything.

blackbelt_jones said...

Wow. Your blog is sure a huge rude awakening. Frustrated with Windows and being constantly bombed by that propaganda about what a great system Linux is a lot of users are bound to try it. Then they find, that for the system to work and show its brilliance they just got to do this, copy/paste this into console, google for this, write petition here, get rid of this, buy that or just wait patiently till everyone understands what a great thing OSS is and write all the necessary drivers and so on, otherwise you're just plain stupid. A lot of us were caught by that line of thinking, because the shit is being revealed little by little. Thus some people never get the full picture and think that failrue of Linux is just the matter of small "if only"s and the global Microsoft conspiracy. That's were your blog comes to play. This "KDE doesn't need users" prick was the last nail to the coffin. Keep up the good work.

You have to sign a Petition? I think you exaggerate a little.

Let me bottom line it for you. Linux is a hassle to learn, a joy to use.

Migrating to Linux is a huge hassle. I would never tell anyone otherwise. I'm sure it's a lot easier than it used to be, and the problem is mostly cultural not technical. If Linux came pre-installed, and if everybody know how to use it, there would be no problem.

But there is. It's a big hassle, which can be a good investment for some people. I honestly think that learning Linux may be the best thing I ever did for myself, other than giving up drinking.

For me, it was beyond worth it, but I can't make that promise to anyone else.

I'm sure it gets easier for new users all the time. Ubuntu not only made Debian more user friendly, it became the focus of some much-needed user-oriented documentation. All the old Linux books were written by programmers for programmers. I started in 2002, and it took me a couple of years to really get the hang of it, during which I still ran Windows.

Well, I love it now, and I'll be loving it for the rest of my life.

It should be a lot easier than it is, and I think that's where the wishful thinking comes in. There's really not that much information, but finding it in the beginning can be a real fuck you, because in the beginning, you don't even have the concept.

Technically, you don't need the command line to run Linux any more, but without learning just a little of the command line, enough to copy and paste commands into scripts, keyboard shortcuts, etc., you probably won't stick with it. Without any CLI at all, Linux is just a cheaper version of Windows, without those sexy commercial software choices. It took me about two hours to learn maybe 75 per cent of all the commands I now use from memory... but that little bit fucking changed everything.

blackbelt_jones said...

@Pi

Flash doesn't play in Konqueror by default though, does it? I've been fooling around with KDE 4.1, and for the first time I was really getting into the widgets. I entered the RSS feed for NPR into the ticker, tried clicking on the stories, audio but nothing worked, and after a while I realized that the default was konqueror, and that's why flashplayer wasn't playing. And so I did what every user is going to do, I changed the default browser. Unless there's a way to run flashplayer with Konquerer out of the box, all this emphasis on Konqueror as the default web browser is just going to briefly annoy people, unless they can't figure out how to reset the default... in which case, it will enrage them. I don't see the point.

On the other hand, for the first time, I started to see how these widgets are doing new and interesting things with the desktop space.

I like saying nice things about Linux in the Linux Hater's Blog. It makes me feel like a Troll of Happiness.

Pi said...

@blackbelt_jones
Flash doesn't work out of the box on konqueror because different distributions place the flashplayer plugin in different directories. On those distributions firefox has if compiled a configuration. As for the binary distributions some people just can't be assed to do it. Package managers are really lazy. I can note some good cases of that such as Arch. The quality of the package builds is what got me to move away from them. And the laptop that I have on Arch still I haven't updated in a long while because it's stable for everything I need.

Tjaart said...

There were some seriously good points here.... but... what the fuck gives you the right to criticize other peoples hard work.

KDE broke the mold of desktop design with KDE4, making neutral backend frameworks for everything so that it can be more portable and maintainable. From a developers stand point they are making it easier for us, which means more applications for KDE, which means a better user experience.

It's true that there are overzealous linux users out there, that make oss sound snooty and authortarian(like ol' richard).

Further more... QT4 introduced better ways of doing things, like vector graphics. IF theres a better way to do something you better do it, because if you don't you will fall behind.

I used KDE3.5 for 3 months straight without rebooting to Windows. It's a well integrated system that makes you more productive than you ever thought you could be.

There are good reasons why it's not a beta too. Open source means release early and release often. Most bugs will surface when the system is in actual use and it will only become stable once a large audience is using it. After all, how the fuck are the KDE developers to know that your super XP 2000 mouse with a million buttons is going to cause shit.
Grow up. Get a better hobby while your at it too.

Anonymous said...

Open source means release early and release often.

Translated: release untested, release buggy, release useless.

That's why professional software employs professional testers, I guess.

Anonymous said...

""The reason Vista seems to use more memory is its aggressive caching."

While this is true and a common practice in most OS's it doesn't change the fact that Vista requires more memory for just the base interface. Plus alot of windows applications such as IE, and Visual Studio are complete memory hogs. So, for an average machine with 1G of memory you would notice drastic performance changes with only two apps open.

However, on the Linux end, Firefox and Kdevelop take up far less memory and the performance remains good."

You're forgetting something: FIREFOX CAN BE RUN ON WINDOWS, TOO! Likewise, less memory-consuming browsers Opera are compatible with Windows. So next time think before writing.

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