Friday, July 18, 2008

Lusers make me laugh ver. 2

Kind of a busy Friday for me. Anyhow, here's some more entertaining stuff.

  • A gnu/luser on the whole "GNU"/Linux thing.
    While the code for the kernel Linux is distributed as free software under the GPL, the term “Linux” when applied to the whole operating system is often used as a branding tactic by companies to reduce the visibility of the ethical aspect of free software.
    Uh huh, that's why they do it. It couldn't also be because a) nobody can pronounce it b) it makes a terrible brand name c) nobody cares, could it? Oh, and d) nobody wants to get caught sounding like a total nerd explaining a recursive acronym.
  • 25 Reasons to convert to Linux. Because nobody has written the same article spouting all the same reasons before.
  • The Big X Window Manager guide. Oh man, I can really just feel my colon overflowing with choice. But wait, you forgot like 100 other window managers!
  • Event aims to bring Lindependence to one California town. A couple nice quotes:
    We have a moral obligation to help those who do not know there is an easier way to make their computers do what they need them to do.
    and
    What do Starks and Cafiero wish they'd known before they started? One of the hardest lessons they learned is that there is no single Linux community to lean on.
    No shit, sherlocks.
  • A luser laments: "Why is it so hard for Windows users to understand that Linux is not Windows?" Oh let me take a wild guess. It could be because "some people" say that Linux is "better" than Windows.
You know, all this got me kinda thinking. Where do I file bugs against the Linux community?

On second thought, I guess it wouldn't really make too much difference. All my bugs would just get closed as "luser error, go back to using Windows you MS-paid stupid fuck."

161 flames:

Anonymous said...

It's GNU/Linux, you freedom hater. Waah.

Christian said...

#
# A luser laments: "Why is it so hard for Windows users to understand that Linux is not Windows?" Oh let me take a wild guess. It could be because "some people" say that Linux is "better" than Windows.

Oh so true, oh so true...

saimon69 said...

and yet the most obvious question: "Why FOSS has to go through linux and nothing else? Why not a more desktop oriented free operating system such as reactos,haiku,aros,syllable and so on?" Zealots will send newbies to use one of those, and keep linux geeky and the FOSS idea will be extended....

Anonymous said...

The reverse happen too. People say Windows and Mac is better yet just like the Linux guys they are not exact about it. Call that a everyone flaw.

Duplication of documentation I find in every PC Mag or PC web site when talking about Windows too. So I don't even call that strange. Another everyone flaw. By the way for anyone interested the Master List of X11 Windows Managers is http://xwinman.org/

"Because nobody has written the same article spouting all the same reasons before." Is that not this blog?

GNU/Linux one has a equal in the mac and Windows world. Is Windows XP Windows NT? Nice little problem there. Lot of people thinks of the NT branded OS's shipped not the fact it has a NT style kernel.

On Linux world closing bugs on you because they are User Error. I have closed thousands of bugs on Windows Users on Windows due to be User errors. I have even had Microsoft close bugs when I reported security breaches in 1995 and 2001 and had to resubmit because the html document I had created was incorrectly formatted and should not exit in there eyes(Hang on its in front of you and exists you idiots). First 1 in 1995 took 25 submits 2001 took 12 so they had improved a little. Never had that problem with the Linux world security issues are always better fix that asp.

The divided communities everyone in Linux knows about. Sorry to say the highly marketed Ubuntu is worse at it. They run there own wiki for everything on the Distribution. They refuse to work with open source projects on providing central communities for there applications in a distributions independent way.

Its the reason why the Lead of Ubuntu is not that highly regarded by me he is creating divide not fixing it.

saimon69 answer is money. Since Linux is used in embed and high end server market it has boarder hardware support than the rest from the developers working there. When you starting in thousands of developers instead of under 100 just to work on kernel makes a big difference.

Want to change it some how those smaller projects need to get more developers reactos a clone of windows under development is critically short on developers just like the rest you listed.

All Current OS's SUX except it. They just SUX in different ways.

Anonymous said...

"A luser laments: "Why is it so hard for Windows users to understand that Linux is not Windows?" Oh let me take a wild guess. It could be because "some people" say that Linux is "better" than Windows."

I think you really missed the point about that statement. Most Windows users think everything works the same way on Linux. It's a learning curve if you have used Windows your whole life. Whether or not you think Linux is better than Windows is irrelevant. You could say the same thing for Mac, Solaris, etc...

Anonymous said...

I subscribed to Planet Gnome just to know what they decided or showed at Guadec2008.

For the entire week I kept reading useful posts like this one:

-Oh I'm back from Istanbul! Wow that city is so cool!
-Oh I met wonderful people at Istanbul
-Oh we had a death match ice cream competition and Vincent Untz lost
-Oh what a wonderful experience!
-Oh the pillows, the beers, the bridge
-Oh I love Turkey but I can't stand taxi drivers
-Oh do you want to see some pics?
[awful pic].jpg
[meaningless pic].jpg
[some ugly girl].jpg
[a huge market where they sell nothing interesting for a nerd].jpg
[ugly people eating ice cream].jpg

-Oh wait... why I was there? uhmmmm Gtk+ maybe???...mmmm oh yes and Gnome!!!
uhmm I think we forgot to talk about that...We didn't decide anything... maybe now we'll clean the code I dunno really.
You know with all that beer we were all so fucked up I think it's good we didn't take any decision.
But we'll come up with something cool before 2010! That's for sure! Because on 2010 Gnome will have 10% of the desktop market so Jeff said a couple of years ago...
Now I have to go, I have to finish some work on my Mac OSX.

Oh one last thing: did I mention how cool was the Guadec?!?

Anonymous said...

I know LOL posts are lame, but I'm more or less inebriated and that post about Guadec is about the funniest thing I've read in a while. So, here it is:


ROTFLMAO

Anonymous said...

OSS fundies = Vegeboos

Just as stupid as those who advocate vegan diets. Just as annoying too.

Jeff said...

Stallman needs to get off his "you must call Linux Gnu/Linux" crusade.

Let's face it, "GNU/Linux" sounds horrible. "Linux" by itself sounds okay. But "GNU/Linux"? Forget about it.

And when Stallman decided to name his new, free, Unix-like OS "GNU", what was he thinking? Like a true geek, he thought a recursive acronym was cool, neglecting the fact that the rest of the population would react with "huh?" or "what a pathetic geek!".

Yes, Richard, we know you think you're clever with your "GNU's Not Unix" recursive acronym. But you're not clever.

That said, I do sympathize with Stallman in wanting to give credit to the developers of the GNU utilities. They are, in fact a larger portion of a base operating system that the Linux kernel (in terms of code size).

But "GNU/Linux" sounds horrible. Period.

It's "Linux", dammit. Get over it, Stallman. "Linux" sounds pretty good, and is somewhat of a brand name.

Technical people all know that "Linux" is only the kernel. The rest of the population doesn't care.

So lets stick with just plain ol' "Linux", shall we?

Jeff said...

@anonymous - who commented on Planet Gnome, talking about Instanbul:

It sounds like they had a great time in Instanbul.

I say, Good for them!

Even FOSS programming geeks can get a life once in a while!

.net jerkface said...

If Stallman and the other people's coders had finished hurd this naming war would never have been started.

Leave it to Stallman though to make Linux sound even geekier. I'm sure CTOs become enthused when they learn that there is a geek war over the name of the OS that someone in the company is proposing. Then they learn about how Linux actually isn't a single OS but a group of operating systems that don't even have a common gui or binary layer.
And people wonder why Windows server continues to make gains where Linux is supposed to dominate.
You know something is wrong in the Linux world when IIS makes greater gains than apache. Everyone in 99 believed that all web servers would be running Linux by now. After all, it is free, right?

rockmelinuxdamus said...

Technical people all know that "Linux" is only the kernel. The rest of the population doesn't care.

Lusers love this distinction. When someone shoots down their every argument they can respond without admitting defeat and at least point out that linux is the kernel.

Anonymous said...

The 25 reasons to switch to Linux doesn't seem to be targeting a wide variety of people nor are the reason really compelling and some are untrue such as the one about support. Plenty of projects get abandoned in Linux.

Keith J. Farmer said...

Linux was written by Linus, and is his to name. If Stallman wants to rename it, he can write his own OS. Call it "Stalin-ux".

Anonymous said...

"d) nobody wants to get caught sounding like a total nerd explaining a recursive acronym"

:D

and it is only linux, if it were GNU HURD...

Anonymous said...

I call for alliance with linuxhater.blogspot.com

PenguinRage
http://penguinrage.wordpress.com/

Anonymous said...

Laugh it up why dontcha.

The thing is, one uses what is most suited for what one needs.
I use GNU/Linux because it has what I need: a high enough profile that there's some cool new stuff running on it (like Win and OS X), and the ability to tweak it because it's open (like xBSD).

Now, for anybody saying 'Linux is teh best r0xx0rz': fsck off.

If GNU/Linux were perfect, there would be no further work done on it. The impressive thing about it, is that when something is wrong in it, and it is known, then it gets corrected - with heated discussions, competition, name callings, finger pointing, and flame wars.

It can get as interesting as a well written soap, with free geek value as toppings, and it produces something: a system you use daily, and that you see improving.

What most seem to forget though, is that soon this turns into hype (which helps marketing-wise) and then the hype hides what's at stake.

And that's when you start hating Linux - not because GNU/Linux isn't good (it keeps getting better) but because these hipsters make it look like 'Linux' is fault-free - and incidentally, prevent the correction of said failings, because, well, they're not here, right?

So, personally I use GNU/Linux; I hate what's wrong with it, I report bugs, I look through manuals and mailing lists for solutions to my problems, I try to connect as many dots as I can.

But when the Gnome panel crashed for the tenth time in a row at boot last month, I swapped it for Xfce remorselessly. If the Linux kernel goes the same way (crashing or reacting slowly for no reason, no correction/workaround I can find), I'll go the BSD way remorselessly.

Help GNU/Linux, just hate 'Linux'.

Mitch

Anonymous said...

penguinrage is a far better place. Being truthful helps I cannot just rip the person apart for trying to stack failures of all OS's on Linux.

Linuxhater could take a page from penguinrage and get his blog more truthful.

There are many insulting terms I use for windows users and mac users. Yet that does not mean they are right to use when trying to prove a point.

Anonymous said...

What are you? a Muslim? Everything that is not to your liking is not true?

Go fuck yourself

Anonymous said...

Ubuntu should be called GNU/Linux/Ubuntu. Because if you don't say GNU/Linux a lot of people will think that Mark Shuttleworth did everything by himself.

Then the Gnome guys will protest to add their name. I think it's fair to call it:
GNU/Linux/Gnome/Ubuntu

Gtk+ guys will complain that Gnome wouldn't exist without their toolkit:

GNU/Linux/Gtk+/Gnome/Ubuntu

What about Firefox?:
GNU/Linux/Gtk+/Gnome/Mozilla Foundation/Ubuntu

I think it's complete. Can we ship the software now?
Oh...there is X, right! Well it's just one letter more!:

GNU/Linux/X/Gtk+/Gnome/Mozilla Foundation/Ubuntu

Wait! What about the community!
There wouldn't be any Ubuntu without the "FREE community" people!

So Mark Shuttleworth said "I can add that...But I don't know how much the community will appreciate it":

GNU/Linux/X/Gtk+/Gnome/Mozilla Foundation/Ubuntu/Freetards/Fucking/Crazy/Liars/UFO Hunters

Freetard: "Now it seems ok! Let's drink a beer!"

Mark: "Are you going to offer me a free beer?"

Freetard: "No, I was going to offer you a FREE beer meaning FREE as Freedom, not a free beer as a free beer. Because I don't know any place where they give the beer for free. I think Stallman knows it. That guy to save a couple of bucks goes everywhere"

Mark: "If I give you $15 can you go to a barbershop and cut that thing?"

Freetard: "Are you kidding? For $15 I can jump and dance like a monkey !!!"

Mehrdad said...

GNU/Linux! Shouldn't it be like Ubuntu/GNOME/Metacity/Xorg/GNU/Linux?

Anonymous said...

"What are you? a Muslim? Everything that is not to your liking is not true?"

Sorry to say you are wrong. There are lots of things not to my liking that I except.

Linux not being ready for business desktop use at this stage is one of them. There are a valid set of reasons.

Same for the List of reasons why Windows cannot be used on a high secuirty terminal.

It would make my life so many times simple if OS's were perfect and not flawed so badly.

Its called being truthful. You can muddy the water for so long before a person comes along and points out that you are doing just that.

Linuxhater is 100 percent guilty of muddying the waters.

There are a list of faults common to all OS's and everyone backing OS's. Then there is another List. The list of problems that are truly broken in that OS and only to the users following that OS alone. Windows Linux Mac all have a true list you can build.

Problem when you mix the list of all OS's and everyone backing OS's with the true list the truth of the state of the OS is hidden.

Also the funny bit the list that all OS's and everyone backing OS's list. Almost always people cannot see that the same thing is done around the very OS they back to other OS's. I think its like the rose tinted glasses of people with old age.

As I said before I will rip apart any OS and show its defects. I am not picky. This puts me in the strange location were I see the coping.

Everyone backing OS's lists seams to have formed in a copycat pattern. About the only thing unique in it is the name they call the person from the other OS.

Sorry to say this Everyone backing OS's List most likely will keep on expanding. Unless we wake up to it. Yes its a true PEBKAC problem.

There exist a number of people like me who have to examine OS's for tasks on a daily base. We are are different to the OS following war creating drones. Creating more trash for us to sort threw.

About time people start seeking the truth about OS's. Learn to look at your own primary OS with the same level of inspection as you are putting on Linux. Lots of things will stand out that Linuxhater has been nothing more than a false entity of anti Linux. Preaching nothing more than the fastest ways to make you follow him.

Anonymous said...

//Sorry to say you are wrong. There are lots of things not to my liking that I except.//

Including bad grammar.

blackbelt_jones said...

[b]While the code for the kernel Linux is distributed as free software under the GPL, the term “Linux” when applied to the whole operating system is often used as a branding tactic by companies to reduce the visibility of the ethical aspect of free software.[/b]

An interesting idea, and maybe even true or partly true, but without documentation, it's just speculation, and it's being stated as a fact. That's sloppy and irresponsible.

(And don't think I didn't notice the use of actual quotes this time. Kudos on that, Mr. (or Ms.) Linux Hater (or Haters)!)


I do believe that it is proper to use GNU/Linux as a formal title, as a sign of respect to the GNU project, but in casual speech, "Linux" is pretty standard.

I used to think Linux was "better" than Windows, but I simply outgrew such nonsense. I prefer Linux. Linux has advantages for me. But there are so many ways of using computers, and so many different kinds of computing. I don't doubt that Windows is better for some people.

Anyway, how much do I really know about Windows these days? I haven't used it very much over the past few years, just for gaming, and now never. (I decided that I didn't care much for gaming, and so I could get by with a much cheaper computer.) Most of my experience with Windows is Win98, with a little scattered XP thrown in. I've never actually seen Vista except on the shelves at Circuit City. I hear people make ignorant comments about Linux all the time. I want to avoid that embarrassment for myself. Most people don't really know one operating system, not completely. How many people really know two?

and yet the most obvious question: "Why FOSS has to go through linux and nothing else? Why not a more desktop oriented free operating system such as reactos,haiku,aros,syllable and so on?" Zealots will send newbies to use one of those, and keep linux geeky and the FOSS idea will be extended....

I don't anything about these, but I can't imagine a FOSS operating system going anywhere without geeks. Who will develop it?

And there's nothing particularly wrong with the Linux desktop other than support, certainly not in terms of orientation. The desktop has definitely been the focus of development since I started using Linux six years ago. You wouldn't believe the ridicuous desktop application that Linux used to have for buring CDs, but now we have K3b, which is just a cinch to use.

More than technical change, Linux needs a cultural change, and that's only going to happen slowly. Most Windows desktop users learn how to use a computer from other desktop users. Right now, Linux desktop users have to turn to books, lug meetings, professional support and the internet. When Linux has enough desktop users out there to make information easily accessible, things may change for Linux.

There's definitely more desktop-oriented literature available these days, compared to the old days, when it was programmers writing for other programmers.

(Reccomendation: Beginning Ubuntu,

Anonymous said...

Linux = Communism

LIS said...

@blackbelt_jones
While I agree with you that each operation system has it's advantages, my estimation is that Linux will take over the desktop only when the desktop paradigm is gone for good - there's absolutely no innovation on the FOSS front, most desktop oriented components are bad clones (there's nothing wrong with clones, mind you, the problem lies with the low quality of the clones).

It's funny you mention K3B - as far as I remember, K3B is relatively recent - it has not been feature complete until ~2007, while Nero reached maturity in ~2001. That's a freaking long time for an obvious feature.

Anonymous said...

Fuck off, FOSSholes...

Alexei said...

I'm curious: while looking through "25 reasons to use Linux" I several times came across such statements as "..based upon Unix architecture which has been in development for 35 years" or something akin to this; what makes Unix so much reliable/stable/safer/Better Thing.

Because if I have learned anything from Linux, its that I hate "the Unix way"

ray said...

"Lindependence" sounds like dependence on Linux to me..

blackbelt_jones said...

@blackbelt_jones
While I agree with you that each operation system has it's advantages, my estimation is that Linux will take over the desktop only when the desktop paradigm is gone for good - there's absolutely no innovation on the FOSS front, most desktop oriented components are bad clones (there's nothing wrong with clones, mind you, the problem lies with the low quality of the clones).
It's funny you mention K3B - as far as I remember, K3B is relatively recent - it has not been feature complete until ~2007, while Nero reached maturity in ~2001. That's a freaking long time for an obvious feature.



Well, it's not like Linux didn't have a CD burner before K3b. Before K3B was XCD Roaster, which I could just barely manage to figure out, and before that was CD Toaster, which I could not have figured out if you put a gun to my head. Indeed that was my point, a dramatic improvement in six years.

I don't know what you mean by "feature complete", but I know goddamn well I've been using it a lot longer than that. I'll check wikipedia later. It really doesn't matter unless I somehow get stranded in 2006.

Here's one for you. Administrative user's account, a.k.a. "Root". Introduced by Unix about 1966, made it to Windows with XP in... 2001? Something like that.

You guys keep talking about the inferior nature of GNU desktop applications without any specifics at all, as if I'm supposed to know what you mean, and just agree without thinking about it. I really honestly don't. I think GNU applications are more straightforward. There's no animated paper clip knocking on the inside of my screen, no cartoon dog to fetch my search results. I hate that shit. If you enjoy it... mazel tov!

There are a lot of fine applications for Windows, no doubt about it. But I use the other stuff every day, and it always works fine unless I try to run it with KDE4! ;) It has a nice simple, straightforward quality, and some of it I am just in love with. KONQUEROR, man! Konqueror is just amazing.

And the licensing is a real advantage, by the way. Almost all of my software has the same license, and I love that. Not just because the GPL is so virtuous and wonderful, but because I'm not responsible for reading and understanding a seperate license for every single thing I download. God, too much Rock Star Energy Drink, I am going off on a tear.

The cloning goes both ways and all over. If you're using Internet Explorer, my web browser, Firefox, has a lineage that is older than your web browser. And it's not like Microsoft invented the GUI, or the word processor, or the command line, or much of anything.

blackbelt_jones said...

"Lindependence" sounds like dependence on Linux to me..

But what's the alternative? There was a country in Africa, I can't remember the details, it was years ago, but Microsoft decided it wasn't a good investment to support their language. So they got themselves some Linux source code and did it themselves.

Dependence on Linux is at least dependence on a resource that you can shape to your own ends. No one can deny you that right. That's clearly preferable to dependence on something that someone else owns.

Of course, the reality is competition. No one is fully dependent on any one OS, and that's what it's all about. Windows knows you have a choice, and I think that's influenced their behavior for the better. I'm convinced that if not for Linux, Windows would have their "trusted computing" platform (aka Palladium) so far up our asses right now, we'd all be tasting Ballmer's cologne.

Linux forces Microsoft to keep developing to stay ahead. And that means you, Mr. and Ms. Windows, get better software. And I for one think you should get it at those prices.

LIS said...

@blackbelt_jones
I'll keep the list short:
using ubuntu 8.04:

1. OpenOffice is extremely slow - word 2003 running in Wine starts and runs faster.
2. Evolution is crashy, buggy, and got tons of UI problems.
3. Eclipse is slow, consumes vast amount of memory (x4 of VS, eclipse is very popular for embedded dev.), and is not very stable because of the VM problem I'm mentioned in LH's previous post.
4. Tracker cannot sort search result, no fine grained filtering, basically, search is not usable.
5. Songbird's library is very slow on large libraries (>100gb), even iTunes is faster. Rhythmbox mangles id3 tags, banshee is a memory hog.
6. Nautilus is stagnate - no filter bar, no drag and drop from file-roller (was fixed and broken again) - diff-ext is broken (integrated nautilus ext.).
7. No support for mobile phone sync.
8. f-spot sucks. Picasa2 is the only decent photo manager for Linux (IMHO, of course), and it's dead slow, due to Wine.
9. Pidgin doesn't have webcam, voip support. Animated smilies stress the CPU to 100%.
10. Very limited game selection - closer to NIL, many of the better ones are same old boring FPSs.
11. broken dual monitor support.
12. No competitor to uTorrent (transmission too simplistic, deluge consumes much more memory, Azureus must die).
13. No tag editor with support for Amazon database.
14. Anjuta is crashy.
15. Problematic clipboard behaviour.
16. tearing in video.
17. Firefox has some problems handling Flash, and not very stable under Ubuntu in general.
18. The interface is slow, unresponsive compared to XP/Vista/OsX.
19. When returning from full-screen games, the screen gets corrupted.
20. Tracker-applet is terrible - cannot access result using keyboard shortcuts, cannot sort result, no live results for the dictionary, etc.
21. Fonts management. Fucking mess.
22. No thumbnail mode in the file-chooser.

I know I've got choice: either use the feature-full Kde3 - which is a fucking mess of a DE, with so many buttons and widgets that it looks like someone dropped his entire toy box on the screen, using the stagnate, slow, mostly useless Gnome, or being a beta tester for Kde4.

Basically, anything I do with a computer, cannot be done with Linux.

Linux sucks, in a big huge, major way.

I really like Gnome-Do, but have nothing to do with it - there's nothing worth to launch.

FOSS is DEAD.

Alexei said...

Well, I wouldn't exactly call FOSS dead. After all, as long as somebody pays the bill (Google, Novel, Sun, etc.) results can be pretty nice (Firefox, OO.org - quite usable for a casual user, at least Novel edition on win). LH said it before, I can only second that - its not really free, someone has to pay. Its either the end user, or somebody else.

But Linux - I hate it like a bamboozled person would hate the con man.

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...

Blogger blackbelt_jones said...

@Lis
Well, by some bizarre coincidence, every single application you listed is somethingI don't use, so I guess I can't argue with you...

...except to note that when you say FOSS is dead just because to doesn't work for you, it makes you seem myopic and ignorant. This just in: you're not the center of the universe. FOSS is very much alive, even though it doesn't live at your house; it lives at my house.

Still, thanks for giving me some specifics about what applications didn't work for you. I appreciate you making the effort to compose a detailed argument.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
"A luser laments: "Why is it so hard for Windows users to understand that Linux is not Windows?" Oh let me take a wild guess. It could be because "some people" say that Linux is "better" than Windows."

I think you really missed the point about that statement. Most Windows users think everything works the same way on Linux. It's a learning curve if you have used Windows your whole life. Whether or not you think Linux is better than Windows is irrelevant. You could say the same thing for Mac, Solaris, etc...


I don't blame LHB for mocking the person. It was a condescending and annoying way of putting it.

Linux definitely has a problem with competing on Planet Microsoft. I think it'll eventually get past it, but not for another decade or so.

Here on Planet Microsoft, Windows completely shapes everybody's experience of the what the desktop should be. Linux is forced to be Windows, which is the one thing Windows unquestionably does better.

This is why I'm starting to tell people not to bother with Linux if they don't want to use the command line at all-- not because it can't be done. I'm pretty sure that these days, you can get by with some distros without ever seeing the Command Line-- but because if you try to run Linux as if it were Windows, it'll always be second best, and there are enough problems with support and learning how to use it that you will lose interest, I've seen it happen too many times. A violin makes a bad harmonica, and Linux makes a bad Windows.

Well, so far. Try us in ten years. We'll still be here, I promise you.

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones: "I used to think Linux was "better" than Windows, but I simply outgrew such nonsense. I prefer Linux. Linux has advantages for me. But there are so many ways of using computers, and so many different kinds of computing. I don't doubt that Windows is better for some people."

This is the most sensible thing that you've said here. Personally, I don't hate Linux. I've had to use it extensively in conjunction with grad school engineering projects, and I can appreciate its usefulness. What I (and many people on this blog) object to, is the constant propagandizing by Linux zealots with "Linux r0xx0rs, Windows suxx0rs". I mean, for fuck's sake, give it a rest, people. The Linux reality does NOT live up to the Linux hype: Linux is NOT ready for desktop use by the majority of consumers. So, in my opinion, this blog should really be named the "Linux Zealot Hater's Blog". I don't hate Linux. I simply hate the drooling fucking morons who refuse to accept the fact that they're over-promising and under-delivering.

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones: "Linux definitely has a problem with competing on Planet Microsoft. I think it'll eventually get past it, but not for another decade or so."

Apple is the real driving force of innovation in desktop operating systems today. It has reportedly captured 50% of the PC notebook category. I borrowed a friend's MacBook Pro for a couple weeks to see what the fuss was about. I have to say, it's a rock solid machine. There were small annoyances (eg. not having two mouse buttons, in order to use context menus, I hate the Finder -- when I close an app, fucking close it!) Xcode is pretty good, I was able to get my app ported from Win32 to Cocoa pretty easily (although I hate fucking Objective-C, burn in hell). Apple is out-maneuvering Microsoft, and I suspect that both Windows and Linux are going to continue to lose market share to OSX. In a lot of ways, Linux has more to lose, since the Mac offers an excellent hardware solution and the familiar Unix programming environment that Linux devs are already familiar with. Seriously, why fight a good thing?

Anonymous said...

Lis did what I said a true list of why not.

Lots of them trace to a single distribution. Also was truthful about what distribution they were looking at.

I have a kinda short list that Linux has to do before it become desktop ready.

Xorg 7.4 has to be released with a lot of its critical fixes. Particularly reconfigure at runtime.

Xorg single threaded performance jammers have to be removed.

Linux Kernel most like 2 to 3 version from now will be ready due to performance jammer in there removed. Embedded coders like me use a hack around the issue in there.

Equal and past Microsoft ADS has to be released for managing Linux Desktops. Currently under development at the freeipa.org

Common installation format so open source application developers can go independent of distributions. Being worked on at Linux Standard Base at moment.

Distributions have to stop shoving openoffice down everyone neck. Its not the fastest application out there for word processing ODF application. To be correct distribution have to stop saying we are KDE we are Gnome... Instead offer users the best applications across all the desktops. Like xfce filemanger is one of the nicest and fastest file managers in the Linux world. abiword is way faster than Koffice or openoffice offering. Even Koffice is faster than openoffice. Note Openoffice is not part of gnome office. Go look what is on the xfce disk of ubuntu gnome office because is lighter and faster than anything less. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeOffice. Ubuntu is a artificially split piece of crap. Making it hard for users to have the best of the Linux world. Other distributions are also guilty of this.

Distributions have to get hard to package maintainers and stop incompetent package maintainers from back porting updates in the process making the complete application unstable compared to the raw source version.

Of course there are other things.

TripleII said...

Thanks for consolidating all those links for us lusers. Keep up the good work, and happy fishing.

.net jerkface said...

Well Linux-loving ZDnet has linked to this site.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9370

blackbelt_jones said...

Apple is out-maneuvering Microsoft, and I suspect that both Windows and Linux are going to continue to lose market share to OSX. In a lot of ways, Linux has more to lose, since the Mac offers an excellent hardware solution and the familiar Unix programming environment that Linux devs are already familiar with. Seriously, why fight a good thing?

Seriously, do you think money falls from my ass?

You want to know my idea of "an excellent hardware solution"? Seventy dollars for a used Pentium III with a pretty good nVidia legacy card. Hook it up to a nice new lcd monitor with a kickass refresh rate so it looks great,as long as I don't try any elaborate 3D games. add the hard drives from my last computer, and an OS I downloaded for free. I'm having the time of my life with this old box.

I kind of admire the way Apple has combined the greed of Microsoft with the cultlike aspects of Linux, but my philosophy is the less you pay for your computer, the more fun you're having. Apple doesn't look like fun to me.

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones: "I used to think Linux was "better" than Windows, but I simply outgrew such nonsense. I prefer Linux. Linux has advantages for me. But there are so many ways of using computers, and so many different kinds of computing. I don't doubt that Windows is better for some people."


This is the most sensible thing that you've said here.


I've said it like a dozen times, and no one seems to notice.


Personally, I don't hate Linux. I've had to use it extensively in conjunction with grad school engineering projects, and I can appreciate its usefulness. What I (and many people on this blog) object to, is the constant propagandizing by Linux zealots with "Linux r0xx0rs, Windows suxx0rs". I mean, for fuck's sake, give it a rest, people. The Linux reality does NOT live up to the Linux hype: Linux is NOT ready for desktop use by the majority of consumers. So, in my opinion, this blog should really be named the "Linux Zealot Hater's Blog". I don't hate Linux. I simply hate the drooling fucking morons who refuse to accept the fact that they're over-promising and under-delivering.

Could we just drop the hostility?

What hype? IBM did some commercials about five years ago, and other than that, it's just a bunch of people with blogs.


There's absolutely no denying that some of us get carried away sometimes, and it's also true that some geeks don't really get what it's like for ordinary people trying to master technical stuff.

It's just a vocal minority. Everybody who really gets into Linux considers themselves a part owner... which they are, pitted against the resources of the most ambitous corporate entity of all time... which they are. Some people will get a little over excited. Can't you just laugh it off and use whatever the hell you want?


Linux and Windows are no threat to each other, no one's going anywhere. I think this is great for everybody.
Believe me, if you're a Windows user, you have every reason to be glad Linux exists. The competition means you get better software for less money. I'm sure of it. And Linux doesn't need to crush microsoft in order to thrive. We don't need to take over the world. For the past six years, (since I switched), we've had our tiny little share of the desktop, and yet all this great stuff has been happening. The live CD revolution, and Ubuntu. It's been exciting. Very few of your crazy Linux friends are going to switch back.

Do you really want to be here having this same conversation ten years from now? At some point we all have to just let it go.

Fosstard said...

Answer me this; If Linux is so bad, why don't you leave it alone and let it die?

Disclaimer: This is directed only at the creator of this blog and anyone else who agrees with him.

Anonymous said...

By the way most serious issue of Linux and lot of open source in general.

Is the optimisation problem caused between gcc and binutils. So far Linuxhater has not covered that. Its one of the biggest reasons why a lot of linux applications are slower than they should be.

Linux is not going to die. Reason it works quite well in the server and embedded worlds. Desktop world is really the one ones suffering to the extreme.

Anonymous said...

@Fosstard:"Answer me this; If Linux is so bad, why don't you leave it alone and let it die?"

You and other people don't understand that what Linux Hater's blog is doing is: Satire.

Did you write an email to Stephen Colbert asking why he doesn't leave the country?

He doesn't make fun of Linux. Linux is just a kernel, a piece of software. He makes fun of people around the Linux world that don't want to see behind their nose. They refuse any critics answering with silly rhetoric. If Linux isn't so popular on the desktop it's partially because of their fault.

Anonymous said...

@Fosstard:"Answer me this; If Linux is so bad, why don't you leave it alone and let it die?"

That would be like leaving hitler alone in ww2

Anonymous said...

It's like letting a rapist walk away after he's done with YOU

thecodewitch said...

Well, so far. Try us in ten years. We'll still be here, I promise you.

In ten years, there will be nothing left. Any humans still walking the planet will be a relic of the past - we will be replaced by nanotech augmented human/AI hybrids.

If you insist on using linux 10 years from now, it is going to have to be you hacking away in a concrete bunker several kilometers below the surface. Maybe you can iron out those last few bugs in KDE5 while the rest of us have transfigured into space faring sentient nanotech based gas clouds.

Alexei said...

>> This is why I'm starting to tell people not to bother with Linux if they don't want to use the command line at all-- not because it can't be done.

This "command line" fallacy is one of those arguments I love to hate. In short - its not the fear of command line. I use cmd in Windows, I swear. I'd love to have a more powerful standard shell language in Windows (N.B.: STANDARD, I don't need "The Choice" between bash, ksh, zsh, myasssh).

My problems with Linux stem from its lack of standardization, not from the fact I have to type a command now and then (I used to use DOS, you know)


>> It's like letting a rapist walk away after he's done with YOU

I prefer "con man", but I like your line of thinking :)

Anonymous said...

Lusers should be thankful to MS in 1999 MS show how bad linux was that it hurt the ego of Linus so bad that he improved the kernel. The guy is a lazy bastard he need someone to point him the bad parts of his works

blackbelt_jones said...

@Fosstard:"Answer me this; If Linux is so bad, why don't you leave it alone and let it die?"

That would be like leaving hitler alone in ww2


Wow.

Actually, since you brought it up, it would be more like leaving the jews alone in World War II. This kind of paranoia is classic Goebbels. The jews are weak, the jews are diseased, the jews are ineffectual, inferior... And yet the jews are controlling everything and threaten us all. The Jews are our oppressors.

You may think this is satire, but LHB is most definitely supplying red meat to some really awful people who just like to hate any minority because it's their pathology. They hate niggers, fags, kikes, and freetards. You're inventing a whole new category of hate speech.

It's like letting a rapist walk away after he's done with YOU

Now that is creepy. Do you really think this is going to foster more openness, get Linux fans to open up about the limitations of their OS?

Anonymous said...

No, I want to protect the young, inexperienced, technically inspired and motivated peoples from the false prophets of open source.

Your misguided ways must be stopped. Like Scientology, and David Koresh who came before you, you pullute the airwaves and the internet with your missives - "Join our ranks! for a better tommorow! fight the Evil Empire! for we offer you Freedom, for our Software model is better, for our Application Are superior!" - all those are LIES. Most of what the Open Source produced is crap. Inferior, slow, stagnate, steaming pile of crap, going nowhere, doing nothing; and yet you shove it down our throats - in the news sites, on Slashdot, Digg, OSnew - "Linux is better! Linux is faster! Linux is our lord and saviour!" - LIES, balefull LIES - your Linux, Your Ba'al, your Lord Of Flies is but an hollow shell, your cult of zealots worshippers trying to recruite more and more innocent souls to sacrafice to your master.

You. Must. Be. Stopped.
Like Fascism and Communism before you, you will be fought. on the Web, on the Media, on hear-say and hear-do. You will die, like the worthless scum that you are, the sucking vortex of wasted time, crushed hopes, and misguided effort.

Open Source MUST DIE!


(No spelling checker in IE7, (sp?) in advance!)

blackbelt_jones said...

He doesn't make fun of Linux. Linux is just a kernel, a piece of software. He makes fun of people around the Linux world that don't want to see behind their nose. They refuse any critics answering with silly rhetoric. If Linux isn't so popular on the desktop it's partially because of their fault.

It's not always reasonable to expect people who are successful with Linux to be aware of its limitations. How am I supposed to know about the applications that didn't work for lis?



Alexei said...

>> This is why I'm starting to tell people not to bother with Linux if they don't want to use the command line at all-- not because it can't be done.

This "command line" fallacy is one of those arguments I love to hate. In short - its not the fear of command line. I use cmd in Windows, I swear. I'd love to have a more powerful standard shell language in Windows (N.B.: STANDARD, I don't need "The Choice" between bash, ksh, zsh, myasssh).


You're applying convoluted logic to my statement. If I say that people who don't want to use the command line shouldn't bother with Linux, I'm not saying that the command line is the only possible reason you might prefer something else. I'm not saying anything close to that.

In short - its not the fear of command line. I use cmd in Windows, I swear.

It's as if you think this whole conversation is all about you. Are you saying that, because you use the command line in Windows, the fear of the command line is never a factor for anyone?

Bodhibuilder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...

No, I want to protect the young, inexperienced, technically inspired and motivated peoples from the false prophets of open source.

Your misguided ways must be stopped. Like Scientology, and David Koresh who came before you, you pullute the airwaves and the internet with your missives - "Join our ranks! for a better tommorow! fight the Evil Empire! for we offer you Freedom, for our Software model is better, for our Application Are superior!" - all those are LIES. Most of what the Open Source produced is crap. Inferior, slow, stagnate, steaming pile of crap, going nowhere, doing nothing; and yet you shove it down our throats - in the news sites, on Slashdot, Digg, OSnew - "Linux is better! Linux is faster! Linux is our lord and saviour!" - LIES, balefull LIES - your Linux, Your Ba'al, your Lord Of Flies is but an hollow shell, your cult of zealots worshippers trying to recruite more and more innocent souls to sacrafice to your master.

You. Must. Be. Stopped.
Like Fascism and Communism before you, you will be fought. on the Web, on the Media, on hear-say and hear-do. You will die, like the worthless scum that you are, the sucking vortex of wasted time, crushed hopes, and misguided effort.

Open Source MUST DIE!


That's not happening, Bucky.

Bodhibuilder said...

No, I want to protect the young, inexperienced, technically inspired and motivated peoples from the false prophets of open source. (...)Open Source MUST DIE

Hail to that! One of the best comments I've read here. Although I'd rather wish Linux improvement than death, competition is always good, and MS can always take good examples (like UAC). However it does not seem that Linux will ever be anything more than (as Gates put it) "a competitor in the student or hobbyist market".

LIS said...

The Command line is a great tool, when you do developement work, and don't want to mess around with GUI libraries in order to run a quick test, or check some conceptual code.
Most of my code is very low level, and the only time it interacts with the user is through the command line, usually when I do unit and functional tests. I don't know how to write a decent UI, and never had to (expect in the University).
Another use, is when I want to run ipconfig or ping, or some bats or cmds.

Then again, I'm a developer. When I go home and put on my user hat, I don't want to mess around with the OS. I'm getting paid to write drivers and embedded code, and I really don't want to have to apply this knowledge when I want to see a movie, set up dual displays, or whatever - I want to use the machine, not work on it!

The command line is an excellent, powerfull, useful tool. It's just not the proper tool for end users.

Hell.. most users don't know how to turn off services, set up an home network, or even move stuff from their desktop to organized folders, even though nice GUIs are available for those tasks in most OSs - and they needn't know how.
The same way I have no idea to what my refrigirator compressor is hooked to, what sort of feedback algorithm it uses, where the sensors are located, and how to program them. It's irrelevant.

Alexei said...

>> If I say that people who don't want to use the command line shouldn't bother with Linux, I'm not saying that the command line is the only possible reason you might prefer something else. I'm not saying anything close to that.


And I'm saying that the fear of the command line is on of the weaker (if not THE weakest) reasons not to use Linux.

blackbelt_jones said...

The command line is an excellent, powerfull, useful tool. It's just not the proper tool for end users.

No, it's not the proper tool. There's no such thing as the proper tool. Would you try to build a house with just a screwdriver, or just a hammer?

When the command line is part of the desktop, it's not the same thing as the old console, which requires yoiu to do everything from the CLI, fuck that.

A big part of my version of "the command line" is the shell commands I program into my GUI. I can program anything into a single click or modified keystroke. It's all in a text file, so I can really save a lot of time with copy/paste search/replace.

And it's mostly really really simple stuff. Anything that I do beyond the simple pushing around of files and "command url" is usually done with a lot of copying and pasting.

The automating is so cool. I once found a tutorial on how to make DVDs out of .avi files. I was able to create a script that allowed me to do a dozen of these at a time, running 24/7. The really cool part is that I don't understand any of it. I just copy and paste them into script form. It's not a lot of learning to gain a lot of power.

And it's what makes Linux fun. For me, without the command line, Linux is like Windows, only you can't do as much. This is why I've started to tell people not to bother. It's not worth the hassle.

This is me, not lying:

There's no doubt about it, migrating to Linux is a hassle. And it's not worth it unless you make the little bit of effort to learn what makes it special. It might not be worth it anyway, depending on what you need and what you expect. It was abundantly worth it for me, but for everybody it's an investment, and investment implies risk. If you tried to learn the guitar, and it turned out to be harder than you thought, would you start posting on the Guitar Hater's Blog? And if you did, how would that not be pathetic loser behavior?

Horatio_Hellpop said...

@blackbelt_jones

You make valid points about the CLI in Linux ... but, with a little effort, users can do the same in Windows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSH_(shell)

blackbelt_jones said...

And I'm saying that the fear of the command line is on of the weaker (if not THE weakest) reasons not to use Linux.

Well, actually, I think I agree. The hassle of migrating to Linux has nothing to do with the command line, but in my experience, without the command line, you're not going to be compensated for the hassle. Without the command line, Linux is sort of like Windows, only not as good.

Life is short, and I'm not going to ask you to agree, but does that make sense?

LIS said...

@blackbelt_jones
There's a matter of perception here:
The guitar is specialist's tool - it is well known and accepted that mastering the guitar requires study, practice, and dedication.
For most people, a computer is merely a tool - a glorified appliance, on the same scale of importance as their TV, Car, or refrigirator - and as a tools, it needs to serve as simply and transparently as possible.
OsX does that superbly. Windows does it nicely. Linux fails in that aspect - hence, for the vast majority of users - 99.2% of them - Linux is not an option. There's is now need and now way that they'll learn how to use it.
Again, I'll take myself as an example. I'm a developer. I know code-fu. What do I have to automate when using the 400$ el-cheapo machine I've got at home? Id3 tag renaming? TagNrename does it. Picture management? got Picasa. Music collection? iTunes. video library? Using the file system.
In the long gone days of DOS, I've written some scripts to optimize the memory for different games - either EMS or XMS, according the game .exe name. It was nice to have it automated, it was even nicer to not do it anymore.

When not troubleshooting or developing, what do I need the command line for?

LIS said...

paraphrasing Churchhill:
If you haven't used Linux by the time you're 21, you don't have a hearth. If you're still using Linux by the time you're 30, you don't have a brain.

blackbelt_jones said...

Horatio Hellpop:
You make valid points about the CLI in Linux ... but, with a little effort, users can do the same in Windows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSH_(shell)

I don't think you guys have the applications. I suspect that running Windows as if it were Linux is about as satisfying as running Linux as if it were Windows, but I don't really know first hand. I did a little web research. There's more to it than I thought,m but not that much. If I'm ever forced to use Windows again, I'll definitely start looking at the command line.

I'm sure that for windows users, a little familiarity with the command line is worthwhile.


bodhibuilder said

Although I'd rather wish Linux improvement than death, competition is always good, and MS can always take good examples (like UAC). However it does not seem that Linux will ever be anything more than (as Gates put it) "a competitor in the student or hobbyist market".

"Ever?" You know, scientists now believe that time goes on forever, and never is a long, long time. The real strength of Linux is that it's not a business, and so it can't be forced out of business. It doesn't need to turn a profit to survive. It continues as long as people are willing to use it. I'm not stopping anytime soon.

Sixteen years ago, it was all console and black on white, no GUI at all. We will be here sixteen years from now, and who knows where we will be.

But so what if it's all students and hobbyists? Let us have our fun, huh? Some of us are obnoxious? Wow, who would ever expect that kind of behavior from college students?

blackbelt_jones said...

Churchill? I want to play

"The real traditions of Microsoft Windows are rum, buggery and the lash."

Makes about as much sense.

LIS said...

"A Linux Zealot is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"

:)

blackbelt_jones said...

That's another Churchill quote? We both have the internet, this could go one for years.

Anyway, here's my final statement:

Use whatever fucking operating system you like, and let your fellow human being use whatever fucking operating system he or she prefers.

You may quote me, provided that you leave in the "fuck"s.

LIS said...

@blackbelt_jones
"fucking fucking"

Ok, I've left the fuck*.

:)

Tim said...

>> Where do I file bugs against the Linux
>> community?

... try any bar.

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones --

It's nice to read some levelheaded and non-inflammatory posts. Thanks!

Side note:

I've used Windows at work and Visual Studio is an incredible IDE. Nonetheless, I enjoy programming on my laptop more. Simple preference. I do like linux more *because* of the command line actually (^ ^)

Xeno said...

LOL. I gotta say as a person who came from UNIX to Windows to Linux, these are really good points. GNU/Linux is a horrible name and Stallman needs to take a Xanax and chill. But the point as to Windows not being Linux is only a partial point; Windows was designed as a desktop and now trys to be a server too. Linux was designed as a server and now trys to be a desktop too. When designing for one paradigm and them trying to fit your model to another, their are obviously going to be things that don't fit. This is why Windows will NEVER be as stable or secure as a server as Linux and why Linux will most likely never be as accessible and friendly of a desktop as Windows.

LIS said...

@Xeno
Bullshit, my friend
NT was designed from the scratch to be a server OS.
OsX is based on BSD, which is unix variant (used for servers).

The only reason Linux got big on the server, was price. Nothing more, nothing less (and it's quite a lot, BTW), and it's losing market share to ms-server every day.

The real problems with Linux IMHO are:
a. Leadership.
b. lack of developers.
c. lack of sustainable economic model, which leads to lack of developers.

It's a boat without a captain, with too few a sailor to push it to any direction.

FOSS is simply not a viable economical model. There's no success stories, other than companies getting bought by other open source companies, and than going belly-up.

Even AMD turned to OSS before it's stock took a plunge..

Anonymous said...

niggerfaggot

Xeno said...

@lis,
Yep NT was meant to be a server but got bad news for you, they had to recycle ALOT of the ideas and concepts and code to make things work. SURE... it worked BETTER. But it still has alot of the spaghetti from before; as an example, someone did an analysis of sys calls on win2003 (based on NT tech) running IIS and sys calls on Linux running Apache. Guess what they found out from a simple static hello world page? Windows made TONS of redundant calls all over the place and the map looked exactly like the code... spaghetti/ Linux on the other hand was nice clean and orderly. You can see several example of it online if you Google it.

And Linux was picked up as a server because it was cheaper than UNIX and people wanted to play with UNIX but couldn't afford a home license. So again, you are wrong. It was meant to be a server and act as a server... not a desktop. And Windows target audience (regardless of the NT redesign) is always the desktop first. So say what you like and try to prove what you want but analysis has been done showing otherwise and no matter how much you protest, it won't change how wrong you are.

LIS said...

@Xeno
Yet again, even more bullshit.
most of an OS stability stems from the kernel design. NT thrown away all of the 95-98 VxD crap, and completely reinvented the driver model, and did it yet again in Vista.

Linux was never meant to be used as a server - it was a pet project of a very talented student in the university of Helsinki, and thanks to a massive IBM financing, much later, grew some more advanced capabilities and the ability to act as a server.

IIS/Apache calls - this is meaningless shit. it can also be interpreted as IIS being modular well engineer project, while Apache being a monolithic block of crap. I know nothing of servers, nor want to know (BORING!), but the number of calls between components implies absolutely NIL about the quality of a project - if you want to, I can statically link any project, and than you'll see almost zero calls from outside the project, but it will mean that I did a very stupid think as well.
In short - bullshit metric, bullshit conclusion.

And you're right, hoping that Linux will be better than the alternatives doesn't change the fact that it is inferior in just about every metric, for any purpose, except being cheap.

Wikipedia is your friend. Go and learn, than come back.

Oh, you've got another bullshit stain on your chin - NT is the kernel technology, IIS is a server. Please tell me that Apache is based on Linux technology, oh, pretty please!

Anonymous said...

Obvious troll is obvious.

Anonymous said...

To those referencing the Nazis: Godwin's Law.

Anonymous said...

Fuck you, you fucking fucks...

... and you know who you are, Linux dipshits...

Anonymous said...

The WOW of Vista blows lusers out of the water, and they get more desperate. Just today my wife and I went looking at laptops. We powered on the Acer, waited a minute, left to browse cell phones. We came back and said WOW, it's almost booted up. It sure is purdy though, course some luser is going to steal the clock dial that makes for some of the WOW for Karumba liquid weather. Matter of fact, Karumba was stolen from Vista, can't Open Source do anything but steal? No Karumba didn't precede Vista, it was started in 2002. Lusers.

The Rep

.net jerkface said...


And Windows target audience (regardless of the NT redesign) is always the desktop first.


NT inherits from VMS and has always been designed for server use first, with a desktop version being built on top of the stable server version. This history of NT releases follow this pattern:
NT 4/NT 4 workstation/2000/2000 workstation/XP/Server 2003/Vista/Server 2008



So say what you like and try to prove what you want but analysis has been done showing otherwise and no matter how much you protest, it won't change how wrong you are.


What has been proven? Are you going to tell me that Windows server is unreliable?

Have a look at netcraft's longest running servers:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

Though the list is dominated by BSD/IRIX the leading site is running 2000/IIS 5 which is amazing given what people like you claim about windows as a server. Note that Linux is conspicuously absent.


A good quick history of NT and VMS:
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1509990

Anonymous said...

and what really fries my bacon is the whole security thing. All anyone needs to do is get a copy of McAfee or AVG or something. Seriously.

tchill said...

Hey,

I hope you saw that you're on slashdot again!

I waste my time on Gentoo. I hate gentoo.

Anonymous said...

yea, 200 window managers... You'd think after so many they'd find one that works.

Anonymous said...

Of course I was drawn here by the Digg link to the article on Linux Hater.

I think this POV is very necessary. I don't think everyone should switch to Linux. When people ask me about it, I give them an honest answer.

I use Linux, yes.

I'm also willing to struggle with drivers that just aren't supported, or software the authors think is complete yet it lacks key pieces of functionality that would make it useful.

I'm a masochist I guess. I'm also a coder and a tinkerer... not everyone is that way.

I tell people essentially that if they have really old hardware that they want to get more out of without worrying about stability, they can make themselves a great little web browsing kiosk. If they want to do anything else, be prepared to hit up Google and know what to search for.

*sigh*

Anonymous said...

@ .net jerkface
What has been proven? Are you going to tell me that Windows server is unreliable?

Have a look at netcraft's longest running servers:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

Though the list is dominated by BSD/IRIX the leading site is running 2000/IIS 5 which is amazing given what people like you claim about windows as a server. Note that Linux is conspicuously absent.


That's rich, now you suggest that linux less stable than windows! The reason netcraft doesn't include it in the list you link to is that the TCP counter netcraft uses to monitor uptime wraps around in linux every 50 days. By the way, how does one manage to run a windows 2k server for 4 years without patching it (aka reboot in the windows world) for a known critical, remote access vulnerability?

Anonymous said...

windows is a stable multiuser OS.
Suck it up lusers.

Anonymous said...

@xeno
Huh someone draw a map with gimp showing how superior is linux it must be truth.

Anonymous said...

To all the stallman whores: fuck gnu/linux, fuck you too.

.net jerkface said...


That's rich, now you suggest that linux less stable than windows!

No my point is that Windows server is plenty stable.

The reason netcraft doesn't include it in the list you link to is that the TCP counter netcraft uses to monitor uptime wraps around in linux every 50 days.

Well to be fair it can detect Linux but doesn't include newer kernel versions past 2.5.24. The lone windows 2000 server is still interesting though.

The problem is that people like xeno continue to propagate the myth that Linux is clearly better as a server than Server 2003/08. It isn't, there are cases that can be made for both.

Bodhibuilder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jawahar said...

We have created a common login at gmail.com so that we can solicit Ubuntu support queries and solve them in real-time using

http://talkgadget.google.com/talkgadget/popout

Username : im.ubuntu@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

well there's nothing on their page! (that lone w2000 thing)

Anonymous said...

@ .net jerkface

No my point is that Windows server is plenty stable. Then why do you mention that linux is missing from the list?

Well to be fair it can detect Linux but doesn't include newer kernel versions past 2.5.24. The lone windows 2000 server is still interesting though. Who uses 2.5 (a development release) for production? The lone win2k server isn't really a server, try visiting it!

The problem is that people like xeno continue to propagate the myth that Linux is clearly better as a server than Server 2003/08. It isn't, there are cases that can be made for both. Linux in my experience is definitely better as a server platform than windows, it's on the desktop that windows is better, and that's mainly because microsoft is entrenched there and dictates all the moves.

blackbelt_jones said...

# A luser laments: "Why is it so hard for Windows users to understand that Linux is not Windows?" Oh let me take a wild guess. It could be because "some people" say that Linux is "better" than Windows.

So "better" means "the same"? I have no idea what Mr. He-Man Linux Hater is trying to say here.

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