Saturday, July 12, 2008

Rants heard 'round the Community ver. 9

Nice quiet weekend here. I'm kinda sad that K Pride Week is pretty much over, but that doesn't mean we have to stop making fun of them. I'm sure they'll keep providing us with good laughs as time goes on. Seriously, sometimes writing this blog seems too easy.

Got a few links for y'all today (Thanks to all those who sent them along). In no particular order:

  1. Long time Gnome contributor Jeffrey Stedfast laments the state of Pulse Audio, and decides to do something about it. He comes up with a few patches to make Gnome apps not totally suck when pulse audio has a hissy fit. I believe this technique is called "defensive programming" a.k.a. "dealing with FOSS bullshit." As usual, comments are required reading.
  2. Nate Lawson points out a gaping hole when it comes to review process for core security infrastructure in debian. Again, read the comments.
  3. PromotingLinux.com is kind of a weird site that I can't decide if its just humor or some crazy dude. I hope it's both, since that's always the best. I see they've trademarked The Truth. Good for them.
  4. And finally, if you've been reading Planet Gnome lately, you'll know about how all the devs are wasting their time by creating mockups of their apps with gratuitous tabbed UI's. Ha ha. I get it. I hope Apple and MS engineers came up with at least a 100 new killer features while you guys were working on those mockups. And also, it looks like one of your guys didn't get the memo. I can't really decide what this means. But one thing seems clear, there are at least some people out there who either believe that OSS devs would do this (which doesn't speak much for the reputation of OSS devs) or believe that this is actually a good idea (which doesn't speak much for their own reputation).

50 flames:

Anonymous said...

Not saying that the tab thing is entirely defendable, but MS did make Bob..

Google Ninja said...

Comment #7 on promotinglinux.com

This is a funny, funny article… Been into windows since dos 3.0

Windows sux and Microsoft and the NSA spy on you.

Linux is for REAL computing…Makes computing fun.

No Spyware, No Rootkits, No BullSh*t!!!

Have any of you Microsoft fan boys every used PCLINUX or Mandriva or hell

Even Damn Small Linux???
No

This is a corporately financed hit site…This is all microsoft can do spew propaganda…In lieu of ACTUALLY RIGHTING CODE THAT PEOPLE WANT.

Microsoft… So 20th Century…Get with the program…the world is HEARTING LINUX!


I love how he thinks rootkits are a microsoft only problem

LIS said...

The comments on the Pulseaudio problems log are comedic gold - Denial, Attack, Personal Attack.

People tolerate Windows, envy OsX, and fucking hate FOSS.. now you know why - nobody can fucking do anything useful with it.

Freetards, will you rid the interwebs from your presence already? When people say they hate you, it's not some cutesy way of saying they care, it's exactly what they mean.
Linux is like the slightly retarded uncle of the software world - everyone feels uncomfortable around it, but can't really ignore him, since he'll throw a tantrum and get everyone embarrassed.

Anonymous said...

I really don't think MS comes up with very many "killer" features. More or less just imitate or just buy the software, like the Windows Defender. Then the company starts getting all pissed off on how Linux / FOSS apparently stealing their IP.

Anonymous said...

At least with MS stuff, things actually work, NOW.
With FOSS stuff, things either don't work, or will work.

The present is a non existent.

I'm tired of this game of wait-and-see-I'll-be-good-next-time-I-promise.

Anonymous said...

"At least with MS stuff, things actually work, NOW. With FOSS stuff, things either don't work, or will work."

Hold on. Most FOSS does work. It's only when you are using the bleeding edge versions of the software when problems may arise. Ubuntu repos would be fairly bleeding edge. Then with the more conservative distros such as Slackware every package is well tested and stable. So, its really what you prefer using. And I wouldn't exactly say MS stuff is stable or works right away.

The only problem with things not working would be if you happen to have some obscure hardware. For me personally the most I've ever done to get a piece of hardware working was to install the madwifi driver.

rockmelinuxdamus said...

Hold on. Most FOSS does work. It's only when you are using the bleeding edge versions of the software when problems may arise.

This is the kind of circular, disingenuous, bogus argument that people are so tired of hearing from the FOSS community.

The "bleeding edge" of the linux desktop is what should work now and has on other platforms for years. Stable on the linux desktop is stuff that should have worked two years ago and now "works", as long as you don't look at funny.

Anonymous said...

Hold on. Most FOSS does work. It's only when you are using the bleeding edge versions of the software when problems may arise.

If by that you mean command line traditional UNIX staff then I'd agree with you. Anything beyond the X Window layer is broken, buggy, and useless.

LIS said...

Using stable releases, like debian stable, means that for desktop oriented tasks, you cannot get your work done.
It entails using outdated version of pidgin, without support for the latest updates to the communication protocols, it means using older versions of openoffice, with even more broken support for doc files, and lousy interface, it means using development libraries and compilers that are way behind the curve, supported only by debian, and it means that most tools are not available or not feature complete, and won't be so for the next 5 years, where the exact same problems will surface again, only at a different subset of tasks.

Even the bleeding edge is absolutely broken, feature-wise - it is moving at a breakneck speed toward nowhere, and still got gaping holes everywhere.

Take for a current Linux distro, for example, Ubuntu 8.04.
Most of the tasks the windows 2000 could do a decade ago, STILL cannot be done on the most current, updated, desktop oriented Linux distro.

Here's a short, incomplete list:

1. Alpha channel support:
w2k supports it, gtk just starting to implement rgba support.
2. dual monitor support: w2k does it effortlessly, Linux is just now starting implement a configuration panel for this task (and as a dual monitor user, I can testify it sucks donkey balls).
3. power management support.
4. sound support, without breakage, crackles, and pops.
5. binary compatibility - most new stuff still works.
6. easy networking.
7. printing works, whenever, whatever.
8. acpi works.
9. speed, memory consumption is way better.
10. file management operations are faster.
11. resolution detection works.
12. it's more stable.
13. the software library is much bigger.

In short, Linux and FOSS loses in comparison to a decade old operation system, that's long stopped being sold.

It's fucking pathetic.

Anonymous said...

"Nate Lawson points out a gaping hole when it comes to review process for core security infrastructure in debian. Again, read the comments."

When idiot uses tools not intended for him - that means trouble. Just look at people who use magic checkpatch tool - they are trying to "fix" non existing white space "problem". Somebody wants to see his name in changelog - hey, I made this lame patch! But this is totally harmless - yeah it pisses devs. They need to fix their patches, but generally it's harmless. Problem shows up, when somebody, who totally don't know what code does, wants to "fix" some real Valgrind, sparse etc bugs.

Anonymous said...

Most of the tasks the windows 2000 could do a decade ago, STILL cannot be done on the most current, updated, desktop oriented Linux distro.
...

agree - I'd just add a ( for me) very important one ;-)

14. provides a consistent and mature GUI tool to actually manage (not only examine) installed / supported devices and select a suitable driver for each device requiring one ( without discriminating between drivers)

assuming that sooner or later any user WILL add some piece of hardware to the system thus having to face the problem of installing a driver, be it on Windows or on linux, in a GUI or console environment - on windows the DeviceManager has been there for over a decade, and it works;

on linux the tools available for the task are:
CLI + lspci/usb + insmod/modprobe + Vi (for the obligatory config file to be edited) which certainly make the best solution for a user who would like to have the task done as fastest as possible, with as little risk of mistake and system compromise as possible (as i'm not the one to tell you that entering "arbitrary" strings as commands in a console with admin privileges and putting "arbitrary" values in config files, the risk is not-null) - especially for a first time user that hasn't dwelved in the "what's the name and syntax of the command to use for that particular thing" affair yet;
Ubuntu's Restricted Driver Manager, which somehow allows the user to install (graphic + proprietary) drivers without resorting to the command line , but creates an inconsistence by discriminating between drivers;
hal device manager - a simple device enumerator;
last but not least, a very recent ( and apparently one - man ) project with the ambitious "goal" to make elements in the list, "manageable" - i read of this project only once, in 2006 when it was born, then never again - anyone knows what's been of it?

Am I missing something?

Abel Cheung said...

I love the recent tabmania so much, especially when GnomeICU supported it long time ago, and D-Bus just added support recently.

macthehun said...

A feature Windows 2000 already had was live window resizing. No grey rectangle without content until the release of the mouse button. Fast forward to desktop linux today. Compiz has arrived all wobbly and shiny, but window resizing is no longer live. Back to the old grey rectangle. But look it's transparent! No it's pathetic.
The XFCE compositing engine can do live resizing. But compiz doesn't support this. Seems like another case of not invented here syndrome.

Tomer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

more things that w2k gots:
a. working clipboard
b. acpi support
c. consumer level hardware support
d. the ability to install software in other places than /usr - those big ass games can be installed on new different HDD when disk-space becomes low, rather than using LVM and system-level magic.
e. stable APIs.
f. drag and drop that actually works.

What FOSS/linux got to offer?
a. FREEEDOOOMMMM!
b. CHEAPPNESS!!
c. SKINNNZZZZZ!!!

Considering that windows exists for about 18 years (since windows 3.0), and linux exists for 15 years (since 1993), I'd say that something is fishy with a development model that manage to produce, in 15 years, a product that is considerably worse that a product that was created after 8 years.
If we'll give FOSS the benefit of doubt, and assume that it successfully competes, feature wise, with windows 95 (of course, Linux is still worse..), it means that FOSS/Linux managed to produce in 15 years a product that is comparable to a product that was produced in 5 years.

This is fucking terrible.. and exposes the extreme incompetence of the FOSS crowd, from development to management.

Free Software is dead.

July 13, 2008 12:30 PM
Delete

Zenobiusz said...

Hey, do you happen to know anything about Hurd developement? Cause from what I hear the fact that a free OS came into being was a pretty coincidence as they found a free distributed kernel they couldn't write themselves. But AFAIK the intended kernel - Hurd is still being developed for almost 20 years now. Now, that's a joke!

Anonymous said...

Linux hater,

Go use Windows and then kill yourself.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous (above me):

He actually has valid points, things that should be fixed/changed. But instead of accepting criticism you just deny it.

What you say is just lame, and people like you make the whole FOSS community look like it looks today.

Linus Torvalds said...

Apple, Microsoft, those guys doing Haiku are all focuses on building all the components with having a fully functioning and stable OS in mind where-as people who work on Linux are only focuses on project of very narrow scope which leads to an OS akin to Frankenstein's monster.

Linus Torvalds said...

^ Wow, I really should have proof read that.

Anonymous said...

Windows is not a stable OS.

Anonymous said...

"Windows is not a stable OS."

Yeah, really? Guess what? I'm using Win XP since over a year or so and it's pretty stable for me. IMHO Win XP SP3 is a really awesome os.

Anonymous said...

@LH: explanation of point #3: http://vadi-blog.com/2008/07/15/the-troll-cave/

Anonymous said...

Actually compiz in Ubuntu uses outline resizing because the fglrx driver falls over if we don't. XFCE does not use OpenGL in their compositor and thus does not hit this problem. However, they also get little to no hardware acceleration from the nvidia and fglrx drivers.

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