Thursday, September 25, 2008

Rants and Laughs 5

Mo' fo' dat ass.

  • A BBC Editor is Getting to grips with Linux. Yes lusers, this is what usually happens when normal people try to use Linux when not in your odorous presence.
  • Even Shuttle-man doesn't think you can replace Windows with Linux.
  • Another six reasons why Ubuntu isn't the #1 OS. With rare insight such as: It seems that people don't mind spending hundreds of dollars on closed source commercial software. They even put up with ads in their software - just so they can send animated smilies (aka Yahoo Messenger).
    Uh huh. Whatever you say dude.
  • A luser begrudging finds his way back to Windows, then finds out that it actually works way better. Then, he challenges lusers to "bring him back" to their freetard commune.
  • LinuxToday editor Carla Shroder proves that she knows very little about other operating systems which supposedly can't do "Cool Compiz/Beryl blingy stuff".
  • Sam Varghese with another lame "20 reasons to use Linux" article.
  • Let's blame Asus for Linux sucking on the eee 901. I used to have a lot of respect for Asus and generally sought out Asus components when building a computer. My experience with the eee has really turned me off and I doubt I will ever look at Asus the same. 

    At the moment I’m looking for a solution to all of this. Can anyone recommend a Linux distro that does work well on the 901 model? I have absolutely no interest in putting windows on this no matter how well it may work. 
  • FSM's 10 easy ways to attract women to your free software project. Who knew it was so easy. And the title sounds like something that should be on the front conver of Cosmo.
  • Wow, a fellow hater. I have a feeling this guy might hate Linux as much as I do.

180 flames:

Anonymous said...

techblog.on.nimp.com/ten-reasons-why-linux-will-win/

antifundies said...

Another great blog post. GJ!

Anonymous said...

WTF. The linux user challenging people to bring him back to freedom thinks "Aero looks 10x better than gnome with compiz". That's kinda a heavy claim to make or defend. Compiz not only looks better, has far more effects, but requires less resources too.

Renato said...

Look what that Sam Varghese sad: 11. Simplicity: Has anyone seen anything more complex than the Windows registry?

Yes. The linux filesystem hierarchy system aka FHS.

Why the hell most directories has only 3 or 4 characters long despite the filesystem supports long filenames ?

Why the hell write filenames only and always in lowercase and without extension ? Does freetards knows that there is a key on their keyboards that allows them to write uppercase characters ?

Why not "Devices" instead of "dev", "Libraries" instead of "lib", "Binaries" instead of "bin". Why the hell they like so much abbreviations ?

Does "usr" means "you suck rock" ?

Do linux developers write their own names in lowercase and with only 3 or 4 characters long ? Are they lazy and don´t want to write their complete names with the first letters in uppercase ?


By the way, Mac OSX has solved that kind of filesystem insanity a long time ago nevertheless linux seems to be stuck in the dark ages with a crappy and messy filesystem hierachy.

The Caffeinated Admin said...

First off, I am an IT Manager that works with Microsoft, Apple, and Linux. Each product is deployed where appropriate without regard for silly politics.

Mr. Parkinson in the BBC article is dead on and represents the majority of people I know. They appreciate what technology can provide for them but do not want to spend valuable time hacking together software to connect to the internet or listen to MP3s.

Many FOSSiles are zealots who have lost sight of why they went with Linux in the first place. They look down their noses at anyone that does not drink their Kool Aid. Newbie questions are answered with a confusing mish mash of tech speak in some perverted attempt to show off some perceived intellectual superiority.

Vista's stumbles should have been Linux's big win. Instead, Apple came in and ate the penguin's lunch. OSX's growing market share is no mistake. Why? Plug in a digital camera and the pictures are downloaded and cataloged. Plug in an iPod and it syncs music with a ready made store for buying more music. Shut the lid, the computer sleeps. Open the lid, the computer wakes up.

It's obvious. Free and freedom are not going to sell Linux. Apple has already proven people are willing to pay a premium for simplicity. If people stopped using Windows because they couldn't be bothered to insert a CD and double click on setup.exe, what make FOSSiles think people want to work out half a dozen dependancy errors, update GCC, track down the right version of OpenSSL, and dick around with conf files to get an MP3 player to half work? Of course they would then need to repeat the process to get audio to work.

Anonymous said...

"By the way, Mac OSX has solved that kind of filesystem insanity a long time ago nevertheless linux seems to be stuck in the dark ages with a crappy and messy filesystem hierachy"

No, not really. Most of it is hidden from the user unless you drop into a terminal.

Also, comparing the insane mess of the registry to a tree hierarchy of the linux/bsd systems is absurd. The windows hierarchy is equally confusing to someone who isn't used to it. Not to mention that the average linux/bsd user doesn't touch anything outside their home directory anyways.

Anon E Moose said...

I'll read the rest of this tomorrow. But for now I just had to have a good laugh, and that comes from the first comment in the Why Ubuntu isn't #1 article

"I truly believe it (Ubuntu) is the best OS out there besides the classic 98SE."

Now is that a backhanded compliment or what? XD

Hell, 98SE was only the least shitty product in a lineup of the crap that was 9x

The coffee-juiced admin nailed it. Hell, I have to walk adults through the process of changing their network passwords, just because they cannot read/comprehend the bit where you enter your new one twice.

This BBC guy bit off more than he could chew when he dared to distro-hop in the hopes of getting that magical Works-For-Me(tm) package to install.

He's wiser for the experience now.

Anonymous said...

"Why the hell write filenames only and always in lowercase and without extension ? Does freetards knows that there is a key on their keyboards that allows them to write uppercase characters ?

Why not "Devices" instead of "dev", "Libraries" instead of "lib", "Binaries" instead of "bin". Why the hell they like so much abbreviations ?"

One word, simplicity.

The Caffeinated Admin said...

"Why not "Devices" instead of "dev", "Libraries" instead of "lib", "Binaries" instead of "bin". Why the hell they like so much abbreviations ?"

One word, simplicity."

Plus tab completion is for sissies. Korn shell 4evah!!!

:-)

penguinrage said...

wow. LH just posted all the linux>windows articles on the web I dont bother to read... anyway good work.

@poster3
ya I think compiz is one of the good thing about linux. It's not bug free at least it's relatively stable and does what it is intended to do.

@renato: I think linux FHS is not really a problem if the OS is as easy to use as Windows.

@'Not to mention that the average linux/bsd user doesn't touch anything outside their home directory anyways'
I dont think a linux or bsd user could actually use the unix-like OS in a usable way without touching anything outside their home directory...

@Anon E Moose
'This BBC guy bit off more than he could chew when he dared to distro-hop in the hopes of getting that magical Works-For-Me(tm) package to install.

He's wiser for the experience now.'
the comment above is priceless :)

Anonymous said...

I would rather use Windows XP than the latest Ubuntu/Fedora/OpenSuSE distro for my desktop. That's right. I would rather use an OS that came out in 2001 than any Linux distro that came out this year.

That's how much Linux on the desktop sucks.

Anonymous said...

abbreviation is another name for confusion

chutz said...

So, the BBC editor had a working Linux ("supported" as it came preinstalled) and because he didn't like the look he decided to install a different distro? Oh, my! Talk about fixing with the big hammer.

Come-on, Hater, you can find something better, I'm sure. Linux sucks so bad, you can easily post about real problems with it.

Anonymous said...

"I dont think a linux or bsd user could actually use the unix-like OS in a usable way without touching anything outside their home directory..."

Really? Unless you have to configure some services or something it is rare to be editing some file not under /home.

Anonymous said...

Elliotth's blog is amazing. Love the post about Rhythmbox for example, and the Ubuntu launchpad threads linked. Holy crap!

Anonymous said...

@Renato

Look what that Sam Varghese sad: 11. Simplicity: Has anyone seen anything more complex than the Windows registry?

The registry gets a lot of undue flack. It's a good idea. But some of the flack is warranted; it's a good idea that was atrociously implemented.

The registry isn't really complex, it's pretty simple: a table of keys and values. It's downright cryptic, though. Better naming conventions for keys, and a mandatory description field would ease the problem considerably.

Yes. The linux filesystem hierarchy system aka FHS.

This is inherited from UNIX. Granted it's a dated filesystem layout, but it IS pretty simple and gernerally speaking, well organized.

Why the hell most directories has only 3 or 4 characters long despite the filesystem supports long filenames ?

Keep in mind that the fs layout is inherited from Unix, which at the time of its conception was a terminal-based system; 'usr' is quicker to type that 'user', 'lib' is quicker to type out that 'libraries'.

Why the hell write filenames only and always in lowercase and without extension ? Does freetards knows that there is a key on their keyboards that allows them to write uppercase characters ?

Because the filesystem is case-sensitive (which isn't a bad thing, and it makes sense that Blah, blah, and blaH aren't the same). ALL UPPER CASE is obnoxious, and grammatically, only proper nouns are capitalized (since directories and filenames aren't in the context of a sentence, they don't get capitalized), it makes sense to standardize on all-lowercase.

Why not "Devices" instead of "dev", "Libraries" instead of "lib", "Binaries" instead of "bin". Why the hell they like so much abbreviations ?

Because the convention was inherited by Unix, and in the time of UNIX is was a matter of convenience. Since the convention is 30 years old at this point, it makes a lot of sense to keep the shorthand naming convention even if for nothing other than legacy support.

And again, the layout itself is well-organized.

BINares go in bin.
System BINaries go in sbin.
LIBraries go in lib.
SouRCes go in src.
MouNTed filesystems go in mnt.
everything else goes in etc.
USerLand goes in usr
stuff build/packaged locally goes in usr/local.
User files go in home, except for root, who's stuff goes in /root.


/opt is just weird, mind you. if OPTional stuff goes in /opt, shouldn't everything that isn't part of the base system go in /opt, since it's all optional?

and libexec, well, is it a library or an executable? Doesn't having executable libraries defeat the purpose of making a distinction between libraries and executable binaries?

Beyond that, the biggest issue with the layout itself is that weather an application just dumps its files into the top of the appropriate directory or creates a subfolder is seemingly arbitrary. */bin and */lib get pretty fucking messy.

Does "usr" means "you suck rock" ?

The abreviations are pretty straightforward.

Do linux developers write their own names in lowercase and with only 3 or 4 characters long ? Are they lazy and don´t want to write their complete names with the first letters in uppercase ?

Again, It's a UNIX convention. It was appropriate at the time of UNIX.

By the way, Mac OSX has solved that kind of filesystem insanity a long time ago nevertheless linux seems to be stuck in the dark ages with a crappy and messy filesystem hierachy.

No, it didn't. OS X retains the traditional UNIX filesystem hierarchy (though with BSD stylings, rather than SYSV stylings), Apple just added a second, simpler hierarchy over it, actually increasing complexity. Though, you're unlikely to run into the traditional hierarchy unless you open the terminal, and they've done a good job of hiding it from Finder (and thereby hiding it from the user).

Trouble is, when you're in terminaland, you get both hierarchies since the new hierarchy is actually build withing the root of the traditional hierarchy, and that makes shit a bit complicated sometimes.

Make no mistake though, the UNIX fs hierarchy is present and preserved in OS X.

Saying that the UNIX hierarchy is more cryptic and convoluted than the Windows registry is more than a little far fetched.

Anonymous said...

@What Linux Can Do That Those Big Proprietary Innovators Can't

We could also include the free BSDs- FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD, whose contributions to Linux and FOSS are well-deserving of more recognition.

I love it, the guy starts off by shooting himself in the foot. Why should Linux claim credit for things the BSDs can do? Perhaps because if the list were to only include Linux, it's be a shitty, disappointingly short list?

Improve with age. Any well-maintained Linux release improves with age- no need to do the silly periodic wipe-reformat-reinstall dance

Looks like someone's never done the Ubuntu diastupgrade-crossfingers-pray-cry dance. I haven't ever really had to nuke an NT-based install. the wipe-reformat-install dance is something people do because it's quicker than fixing the problem. I'd rather just fix the problem. And there's Apple. Sorry, I've never, ever had to whipe a Mac OS install, same for Solaris, same for IRIX, same for AIX. This is about open vs. closed, isn't it?

Debian (and perhaps some other distributions) has a reliable upgrade path, so you can upgrade to new releases indefinitely without ever having to do a clean new installation

Windows had upgrade media in the 3.x days. And I don't recall ever having to purge a Solaris, IRIX or AIX install to upgrade, sorry.

Supports more hardware than other operating system, except perhaps NetBSD, from tiny embedded devices to specialized kiosks to routers, network gateways, notebooks, desktops, workstations, servers of all sizes, mainframes and clusters

As do OS X and Solaris. Though this guy talking about archetectures, not devices. In terms of devices, I don't think any system supports more hardware than Windows does, and by support I mean it actually works reliably. In Linuxland, when it comes to hardware, quantity supercedes quality.

Sane, reliable, secure, flexible networking. Dozens of different tools for remote administration, filesharing, helpdesk, and mobile working

Ditto, even though you don't really need dozens of tools that do the same thing, if you've got one that does it well.

Can boot from anything: 3.5" diskette, CD, DVD, USB flash drives, USB hard drives, netboots

Leaving proprietary Unices out of this (they all do this sort of thing), you'd be surprised at what Windows can boot from (boot floppies, CDs, DVDs, external drives, off the network).

Bootable live media for portable Linux-ing, troubleshooting and repair, and new release previews. (I get a special kick out of repairing Windows with a SystemRescueCD- Windows' own repair tools are very inferior)

Windows has LiveCDs, they just aren't offered from MS (afaik).

Funny though, how Linux-based liveCDs came into prominence not for portability or salvaging, but as a means to get people to try Linux without damaging Windows.

CLI and GUI live harmoniously side-by-side

No, they really, really don't. And spare me the banter about cmd.exe. Get with the program, Powershell FTW.

Variety of high-quality high-end filesystems

- ext2 blows goats.
- ext3 blows goats but has a journal tacked onto it.
- ReiserFS' future is in question.
- ext4 is nowhere near ready for prime time.

- JFS was donated to IBM and was developed largely while proprietary, OSS can't claim this one.
- XFS was proprietary until it was donated by SGI, OSS can't claim this one, either.

- NTFS actually is a high-quality, journaled, transactional filesystem with more features than you can shake a stick at (ADS, Quotas, ACLs, Sparse files, VMP, soft/hardlinks. HSM, NSS, VSC, compression, encryption, SIS, EFS, etc). Honestly, Linux-types pick on NTFS because it fragments; newsflash jackasses, all filesystems defrag (and all linux-supported ones come with defrag tools, btw) and Journals don't prevent fragmentation, they prevent data loss.

Variety of virtualizers that aren't crippleware

VMware, VirtualBox, Qemu, Virtual PC, Parallels, OVPsim, Simflow, SimH, Simics, VirtualServer, Virtuozzo, Windows-on-Windows, want me to keep going?

Good system and network administration utilities

He isn't even trying.

One-click system updates and upgrades without fear

AHAHAHAHA bollocks.

Customizable automated network installations

Windows has had this for a decade or so.

Secure-able all by itself- no guaranteed membership in the WorldWide Botnet, no need to lard down a perfectly good Linux system with anti-malware crud that's expensive, marginally effective and a drag on performance

You'd be surprised.

Cool Compiz/Beryl blingy stuff

Right, because SphereXP and Project Looking Glass don't really exist. And really, who needs to use the GPU to accelerate workflow, when you can waste it on wobbly windows and cubes instead, right?

Advanced graphical desktops with multiple workspaces, multiple screens, control multiple PCs (including Windows) from a single keyboard and mouse,

Someone's never used powertools or alternate shells, or RDP or VNC or TS. Also, someone seems to be in denial that all these fun stuff he credits Linux and FOSS for were conceived decades ago at Bell Labs for inclusion in (proprietary) UNIX.

All kinds of real cross-platform and interoperability tools, rather than the fake kind that exists only in press releases

You don't really need to worry about cross-platform compatability when there's no demand for it since 91% of the market is running your platform. But just for shits and giggles, Office/exchange, the one that counts, supports Macintosh as a platform. Fail.

Welcomes both beginning and advanced users

Not really, but that's hardly innovation, Microsoft and Apple have been doing the whole user-friendly thing since "Computer" meant "large complicated thing running UNIX or zOS". In fact, Windows' 'friendly to the layman'ness is largely credited with putting a PC is every other household. (Fuck OEMs, people wouldn't have bought OEM IBM PCs if they were not easy to use, and you all damn well know it).

Doesn't cost billions more to develop with each release, while delivering less functionality, stability, and usefulness

IBM, Novell and Red Hat beg to differ on the not costing billions part. And the 99.07% of systems NOT running Linux beg to differ on the usefulness and functionality.

How about I give offer a short list of things other OSes do that Linux doesn't?

- offer a stable ABI/API.
- Retains backward compatability with itself, and does so nbot only between point releases, but between multiple major revisions (FreeBSD retains compatability with 4x and up, Windows runs 16-bit code via wow16)
- works.
- isn't a religion.
- supports the needs of professionals and users outside of the IT/dev sector.

Bob said...

So, the BBC editor had a working Linux ("supported" as it came preinstalled) and because he didn't like the look he decided to install a different distro? Oh, my! Talk about fixing with the big hammer.

That was part of the BBC guy's point. There's lots of assumed knowledge.

More tellingly, even OEM Linux isn't good enough for the layman. Note that other gripes were that he couldn't sync with his iPod or get on the intarweb.

If OEM'ed systemz don't even offer basic functionality out-of-the-box, how can it seriously be ready for the masses?

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting the Sam Varghese link. It makes me feel superior because the article makes Sam sound like... well let's just say he doesn't sound very smart there.

Sounds like some young kid in search of identity, who's trying to be cool by inventing reasons to like Linux. Maybe it makes him feel like a freedom fighter or something.

2. "I've never seen any malware"... yeah fuck man nobody CARES about your system to write any malware for it--it'll be a waste of time.

3. Hardware integrity: hold on... Sammy is saying that Windows is OK with his bad RAM, and Linux couldn't handle it. Like I said... this article doesn't make him sound very smart.

4. 15000 packages of half-written, non-supported, use-the-fucking-source-luke semi applications? No thanks.

5. He says Windows can't have user-specific settings. As I go through this article I feel more and more superior.

The rest of the article is just equally unresearched. Sam Varghese's feeble intelligence really shows itself in this article.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Really? Unless you have to configure some services or something it is rare to be editing some file not under /home.

This is what this guy call "rare" :

Ten times a day editing fstab to get floppy drive and NTFS partition working.

Twenty times editing xorg.conf to get 3D acceleration

Thousand times adding repositories to sources.list.

Not to mention, compile software, drivers, kernel ... all of that means if you are linux user you must edit and deal with a lot of files outside /home and so try figure out what means "var" "usr" "lib" "sbin" "etc", those cryptic folders that start with a dot and those cryptic numbers in chmod (which means you need to learn octal numbers to get something working in linux).

Then, edit files outside /home is a very often situation contrary to Windows or MacOSX users who doesn´t need to edit any files to get things working since there is always proper GUI provinding this functionality and avoiding misuse of editing registry or other config files.

frontsideair said...

Who said you can replace Windows with Linux? You can't find billions of bugs and disfunctional things on Linux. I'm sure you'll miss BSOD's for sure. =)

Anonymous said...

"Not to mention that the average linux/bsd user doesn't touch anything outside their home directory anyways."

Typical luser response.
Problem: It sucks.
Answer: You don't need it anyway!

Anonymous said...

LH:
It's time to close the blog.
You're beating a dead horse.
Let Linux live in its little insignificant niche, and move on.

b0ris said...

@anonymous, in reply to renato:

"USerLand goes in usr... the abbreviations are pretty straightforward."

Unix guruness fail. usr stands for "Unix System Resources". Call that straightforward??

Anonymous said...

The way Mac OS X handles the old-fashioned and cryptic UNIX directory structure is a major improvement. I don't know why the rest of Linux hasn't followed it. To say that Mac OS makes the directory structure simpler and yet also more complex is really dumb.

I loved Elliot TH's blog because he highlights this time and time again. A good idea comes along that would improve the thing, but there is complete resistance to change. There is complete failure in even recognizing a good idea.

I'm ready for free software to really be good, but the only good free software out there can be counted on two hands - and they aren't operating systems.

Anonymous said...

what make FOSSiles think people want to work out half a dozen dependancy errors, update GCC, track down the right version of OpenSSL, and dick around with conf files to get an MP3 player to half work? Of course they would then need to repeat the process to get audio to work.

Ten times a day editing fstab to get floppy drive and NTFS partition working.

Twenty times editing xorg.conf to get 3D acceleration

Thousand times adding repositories to sources.list.


Apparently there aren't enough real problems with Linux, so you guys need to invent fake issues?

Anonymous said...

Who said you can replace Windows with Linux? You can't find billions of bugs and disfunctional things on Linux. I'm sure you'll miss BSOD's for sure. =)

Freetards who make statements such as this have obviously never touched any version of Windows made after 98se.

And, by the way, yes you will find billions of bugs and dysfunctional things on Linux. That's what the system is made of and, in some cases, relies on to function.

Anonymous said...

what's with freetards always quoting that lame-ass line from Charles Babbage? Get some new material.

Anonymous said...

@frontsideblowjobs

//I'm sure you'll miss BSOD's for sure. =)//

I've missed them for about three years on my XP box. But then I'm sure you're beyond stupid, and buy shitty hardware with crap-ass drivers *NOT WRITTEN BY MICROSOFT* that cause BSODs.

Anonymous said...

LOL I BSODed VISTA!!

Follower said...

> FSM's 10 easy ways to attract women to your free software project.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is full of good advise :D

Anonymous said...

lol @FSM's 10 easy ways to attract women to your free software project

I would suggest:
1. "Shower regularly" (not like RMS)
2. Done look like a retard (not like the average freetard)
3. Be nice to the girls (unlike Hans Reiser..)

Anonymous said...

Saying that the UNIX hierarchy is more cryptic and convoluted than the Windows registry is more than a little far fetched.

The Windows Registry does get too much flack for what it is. But you miss the main point: The registry is a centralised, standardised (in terms of APIs) way to read and write hierarchical data, mostly used for reading and writing preferences data, many times abused for data that doesn't belong into the registry.
However.. the main point is, it is a standardized API to use. The data is always in the same format and is always written and read in the same ways.

Now.. compare that to a bunch of configuration files all over the file system. First, preferences data in typically *nix based systems is usually written to the home directory in hidden dot files. Application configuration files sometimes is, sometimes is not written to the home folder. Services read and write from either applicationspecific folders or from some more or less standardized folders for that purpose (/etc...).
But the data itself is absolutely not standardized in no standardized way. There is no API (apart from fopen/fclose) to write preferences data. Some applications/services use a rather ini file based system, some use a totally different one, but there is not standard to do that. Gnome/KDE try to integrate a standardized Preferences API, but I don't know how well it is used. The main point remains though, that Non-GUI applications use a variety of different ways to read and write preference data, and GUI based applications have at least two different ways (KDE/Gnome) to do so.
THAT is what the Registry, however, solves. There is one API to access preference data.
Now, of course, explaining a file system is easier than explaining the registry, but explaining how data is accessed (from an API level at least) is way easier than with dot files.

Anonymous said...

3/4 of Linux articles submitted to Digg and similar sites are titled something like "10-Step Tutorial To Doing Some Basic Everyday Crap on Ubuntu". That's your user friendliness right here.

Of course, most Digg articles are written for the sole purpose of getting ad money from the hippie-nerd crowd polluting the site, so anything with "Ubuntu" in the title will get dugg automatically.

But ask yourself a question: when was the last time you had to do an extensive Google or forum search to solve a common or relatively easy problem in Windows ?

Never ?

Hell, I couldn't even name a single Windows support forum from the top of my head, while I can name like 30 of these for Linux (it's easy: one for each distro)

Tr0n said...


However.. the main point is, it is a standardized API to use. The data is always in the same format and is always written and read in the same ways.

This is very handy in corporate scenarios because the Registry is an ACL object. It allows sysadmins to lock down the systems pretty easily. A simple thing like "prevent user from changing the wallpaper from the company logo" is insanely difficult on a Linux machine.

Tr0n said...


Who said you can replace Windows with Linux? You can't find billions of bugs and disfunctional things on Linux.

A guy who stands to make money from Linux is saying you cant replace windows.


How long before Linux becomes a decent desktop OS? People have been waiting for over a decade. Oops. Not really.


Keep hiding behind "its free" "use the source"... , 0.93% of the market agrees with you.

Darren said...

Unix guruness fail. usr stands for "Unix System Resources". Call that straightforward??

Er, no, it doesn't. It stands for "user", as in what more modern systems call "/home." The original implementations of UNIX were on systems that had only two drives: / and /usr. User files went on the second drive. Big stuff that wasn't users (like print queues, uucp spools, and so on) were also on /usr, because there was room there. But it got so crufty that eventually (and especially after networking got popular and reliable) UNIX moved to separating out real user home directories and the system stuff that was put into /usr for expedience.

Anonymous said...

But you miss the main point: The registry is a centralised, standardised (in terms of APIs) way to read and write hierarchical data, mostly used for reading and writing preferences data, many times abused for data that doesn't belong into the registry.

Which was precisely the point I tried to make: It's a good idea with piss-poor implementation. (You'd think the part that goes "It's a good idea, just badly implemented" would have given that away, but I digress).

However.. the main point is, it is a standardized API to use. The data is always in the same format and is always written and read in the same ways.

And the UNIX filesystem hierarchy is precisely that, a standard.

Now.. compare that to a bunch of configuration files all over the file system....

A good standard that is also horribly misused. Whatever happened to stuffing all the config files in /etc? And I did touch on this with the whole wtf is /opt for, exactly, anyway? And why the fuck do they just arbitrarily either dump shit intop the top-level directory or make a subfolder? But then again, unlike the registry, the /etc folder is human readable, and the config files themselves are (just barely) human readable.

But the data itself is absolutely not standardized in no standardized way. There is no API (apart from fopen/fclose) to write preferences data.

As much as I like the idea of having a standard API for everything, do we really need an API for text files? I mean, come on, it's a bunch of text files, they're supposed to go in /etc. Though I agree that there should be a standardized configuration format. This still deviates quite a bit from the original "the acronyms suck" vs "the registry keys are downright cryptic" discussion.

Further, I never implied that the way Linux handles configuration files is great, or how it plays with the hierarchy is good, tangent much?

I merely stated that that the hierarchy was inherited from Unix, and that in the time of Unix, it made a lot of sense to organize the filesystem inn such a manner. I even said that the layout itself is old and dated, but is preserved for legacy reasons. I never even presented an opinion on text file based configuration. I dunno, on my Unix (as in not Linux) systems application configs go in /etc/appname.conf and user-prefs go in ~/.appname/foo.conf, its not ideal, but it isn't exactly cryptic nor overly convoluted.

THAT is what the Registry, however, solves. There is one API to access preference data.

Did you seriously miss the part about how the registry is a great idea? My only beef with it (which was also made clear, or so I thought) was that the key names are cryptic, and that it would be nice to have a mandatory "description of what said key does" field. I'm also not the one who said that the registry was complicated. I in fact said that it was pretty simple: a table of keys and values.

Now, of course, explaining a file system is easier than explaining the registry, but explaining how data is accessed (from an API level at least) is way easier than with dot files.

except the dot files, although not ideally organized, are human-readable, whereas the registry keys, although organized in an ideal fashion, are outright cryptic.

Point is they're both decent ideas with piss-poor implementation. But random tangent aside the point remains comparing a configuration mechanism to a filesystem layout is a stupid comparison, as well, the UNIX fs hierarchy's naming conventions are fairly straightforward.

Anonymous said...

"Not to mention that the average linux/bsd user doesn't touch anything outside their home directory anyways."

As someone who admins BSD systems, that's a lie. I just don't have to do it anywhere near as often as I would have to in Linux.

--------

@anonymous, in reply to renato:

Unix guruness fail. usr stands for "Unix System Resources". Call that straightforward??


It's not an acronym. (acronyms are capitalized, it's a case sensitive filesystem, remember, there's a difference between USR (acronym) and usr (abbreviation).

'usr' is an abbreviation of 'user',
(hence /home, on Unix proper being a symlink to /usr/home.).

Now, I'll walk you though it.

- usr is an abbreviation of user.
- user files belong in userland.
- that's why it's called userland.
- user files, also known as userland go in /usr.

Yes, it it rather straightforward, you fail, but hey, at least now you know the difference between an acronym and an abbreviation, right?

Anonymous said...

now you should just explain FSH to yourr girlfriend, mine ROTFLed when i stared

about eee said...

have you tried puppylinux? (a gem in terms of usability compared to the average distro for the average joe)

Anonymous said...

Yes, I want to attract women to my project. My project is located between my legs. How do I get more female contributors?

Anonymous said...


Yes, I want to attract women to my project. My project is located between my legs. How do I get more female contributors?

Dude, strap-ons are not a good idea.

Anonymous said...

FSM's 10 easy ways to attract women to your free software project.

Good. I´d like to attract girls to my non-GPL project called "Penix".

Anonymous said...

I like this information about the writer of the Reasons Ubuntu is not the #1 OS article:

He's a student, an amateur C# programmer and photoshopper.

C# programming and Photoshop use; two things he needs to use Windows for!

Anonymous said...

"Keep hiding behind "its free" "use the source"... , 0.93% of the market agrees with you."

Unfortunately nearly all computers come with Windows pre-installed. So, I wouldn't take those figures as entirely accurate.

Anonymous said...

"Nearly all computers come with Windows preinstalled" is a crappy excuse. It's the kind of excuse that you'll be able to keep using forever, rather than focusing on what's actually broken in the FOSS community and whether it might make sense to make some people unhappy and change some of the crap in order to create a better system. But every major piece of software had to contend with "nearly all computers come with X preinstalled" at some point. There was a time when Windows faced this same battle, and "nearly all computers" came with OS/2 or Mac OS preinstalled. Instead of whining about it, Microsoft beat them by coming up with a superior product. Guess what, eventually, they won. There was a time when every computer came with Internet Explorer preinstalled, and now Firefox is making some gains. Heck, even Apple is making some gains from OS X, although its market share is still quite low. In fact, you'll have an easier time now entering the OS market than Microsoft did in the 1980's: the biggest obstacle to adoption, which is compatibility with the huge amount of software written for Windows, has become way less of a problem due to virtualization and the fact that everybody is running on x86. Now all you have to do is write a decent, usable OS, fix a stable API/ABI to get *other developers* to view it as a single platform, and market it through opportunities like netbooks, walmart PCs, etc. If it's cheaper, more secure, more manageable, etc than Windows, people will care.

Azathoth said...

"Unfortunately nearly all computers come with Windows pre-installed. So, I wouldn't take those figures as entirely accurate."

look at my blog's statistics for example:

Windows 89,62%
Macintosh 8,68%
Linux 1,32%
(not set) 0,10%
Playstation 0,10%

happier? And my blog is about music and movies so it will neither attract the Microsoft nor the Linux crowd. the number of visits is pretty low but you can have an idea.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately nearly all computers come with Windows pre-installed.

There's a good reason for that: there's nothing else to preinstall. First, make an OS that doesn't royally suck. Then, you can talk to OEMs.

Anonymous said...

"Unfortunately nearly all computers come with Windows pre-installed"

And you still see "(Insert company here) recommends Windows Vista for (something here)"

Almost a pointless statement since Vista is all you have to choose from. And from that mojave thing they need to trick people to get them to use that piece of shit.

Anonymous said...

I'd say people are happily using Vista despite the huge FUD campaign freetards made against it even before its release. The only thing they've achieved is to push some to OS X, not Linux. Poor bastards.

Anonymous said...

Almost a pointless statement since Vista is all you have to choose from. And from that mojave thing they need to trick people to get them to use that piece of shit.

Cute that you put that spin on it. Most non-brainwashed people take Mojave as testament to the FSF and Linux community's FUD campaign against Vista (That whole 'defective by design' / 'say no to Vista' bollocks) was largely baseless and completely full of shit.

You do have a choice, though, Lots of OEMs offer XP pre-installed, or you could choose a Mac, or if you're willing to dig deep enough, and the term "user experience" means absolutely fuck all to you, you can even find Linux OEMs.

And you're extra patient, you can wait another 40 years for HURD to be ready! *rimshot*.

Anonymous said...

now you should just explain FSH to yourr girlfriend, mine ROTFLed when i stared

HAHA, fuck no, there was never a need. I love her entirely too much to ever expose her to desktop Unix.

Anonymous said...

the other guy seems to be mac lover, and a linux hater. but he writes much better texts than this blog.

Anonymous said...

Congratulations LH... you have convinced me to try PC-BSD.

I'm downloading the ISO as I speak.

Some features from what I can tell:

1) No dependency hell with self-contained PBI packages.

But I'll probably end up using FreeBSD ports/packages more. But I haven't heard about dependency hell with ports either.

2) Stable kernel ABI and backwards compatibility.

3) No religion just software

4) The ability to update software without performing an OS upgrade.

5) Nice GUI configuration tools like Fedora/Ubuntu but unlike a stock FreeBSD installation.

6) Flashplayer 9 via Flashplugin + nspluginwrapper, Swfdec, or Wine.

Anonymous said...

I really can't decide, if Carla or Sam is the bigger idiot. Unbelievable!

Anonymous said...

GoboLinux
http://www.gobolinux.org/


GoboLinux is an alternative Linux distribution which redefines the entire filesystem hierarchy.

Anonymous said...

I prefer Linux over Windows XP. And Windows Vista is a terrible operating system.

Anonymous said...

Julian?
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Where are you? This blog is not the same without you!

julian69 said...

Sorry guys, I have decided that Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition(tm) is the best operating system. For one Dell and HP recommend Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition(tm). Even Linux requires the use of Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition(tm) to operate. Please help support the American economy and purchase many copies of Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition(tm).

Love,
Jullian69

.net jerkface said...

For people who point to OEMs as the reason for the dominance of windows, how has windows gained in the server sphere? Why are so many companies setting up IIS servers when linux is free?

forever linux said...

Linux: the choice of a GNU generation!

In a world without walls, who needs Windows and Gates?

Avoid the Gates of Hell. Use Linux.

Linux. The future is now.

Linux. The future is open.

Linux. Because a PC is a horrible thing to waste.

Remember: Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer.

Linux is business: Faster. Smarter. Cheaper.

We use Linux to UP our productivity. So UP yours!

Anonymous said...

@ .net jerkface

Easy question. Because they are fucking morons.

Anonymous said...

If someone doesn't agree with your opinion, he's a fucking moron?
Up your ass, donkey lover!

@forever linux:

Code is life.
To not accept the GPL is to invite eternal damnation!
The flames of hell awaits those who use propriety software, for it is the work of the Bill!
Remember the evilness of Microsoft, and its unholy deeds!
The meek will inherit the earth. Seek not profit for the sweat of your brow!
Viva le Revolusion! Viva Muerta!
love the feeling of a rectum opening up like flower!
Smell the fresh shit in your colon!
Eat it!
There is nothing like a fist up the anus, the sweet pain of tearing guts, and the smell of feces in the morning!

Anonymous said...

Probably because Linux on the server isn't free when most businesses rely on commercial support.

Still, Linux and Unix together own about 46% of the server market and it isn't falling fast.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS21399008

Anonymous said...

Too bad that Sun is dying.
Well, that's what happen when you go Open Source.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous
September 27, 2008 12:22 PM

Yes.

Anonymous said...

@ renato

First of all msdos/windows suck even more than unix in fact the tree letter filename extension is a bad hack so are drive letters and a lot more windows/msdos "features". .

.net jerkface said...


Easy question. Because they are fucking morons.


Yea that must be it. It couldn't be that are legitimate reasons to choose windows server over linux.

No reasons like:

Easier hardware setup, no need to compile drivers
Easier network setup
Much easier scaling/load-bearing setup
Productivity gains from vs+asp over perl
Performance gains from asp.net 2.0 compiled apps over scripting language based web apps
Lower support costs, especially with $400 windows web server
Better integration with existing windows infrastructure
Performance gains from Winserver's kernel mode http driver
Various benefits of .net development



Yea but it must be because they are all morons. Just a bunch of dummy dumb dumbs.

Anonymous said...

@anon
Wasn't DOS phased out in, like 1995?
Isn't the "." extension used by Unix software as well? (.ogg, .o, .a, whatever).

You're stupid inbred, go molest your daughter or something.

Anonymous said...

Yeah what the fuck does C: mean anyway? The average grade a Microsoft developer got in their Algorithm's class?

Anonymous said...

"C" is a cunt
":" are the balls of a Windows user.

You can't see the penis, since it is in the cunt.

Oh, I've forgot, you're a Linux user..
It's a fairy tale, there's no such thing as sex.

Anonymous said...

Still, Linux and Unix together own about 46% of the server market and it isn't falling fast.

Four years ago it was 80 percent.

Anon E Moose said...

@ Forever Linux

If the future is now for linux, then the future was 10 years ago for everyone else....


As for the rest... Seriously, how can you type while giving RMS such a jolly good rimming?


Otherwise. Gave PC-BSD a try myself. I could see using it on a business machine, save that my company's email program doesn't like it any more than it likes Linux.

Anonymous said...

""C" is a cunt
":" are the balls of a Windows user.

You can't see the penis, since it is in the cunt."

I guess when you don't have or know the answer to a question you can make up some bullshit. Great job.

Tr0n said...

Has anyone used FC9? I don't know if this was because it was inside a VM, but changing the display resolution requires a freaking reboot. Seriously , not kidding. Presumably because the X server cant be easily restarted w/o a reboot. (Yeah, *I* know how to do it w/o reboot, but the average user doesnt)


And that thing that pops up after a kernel failure, asking to send information to "kerneloops.org" .. WTF? How the hell is the user supposed to know if that's legit.


The genuis who designed this, after you click Yes, you still get _another_ popup saying information is 'really' sent. Yeah, I wasnt going to sleep till the information went through.


Who are the idiots that design these things..

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a certain version of the Linux kernel takes a huge shit over certain Intel Network cards.

Anonymous said...

Four years ago it was 80 percent.

Err... um not really. 10+ years ago, maybe 65-70%. Remember we're talking more than just HTTP web servers here.

The article points that Unix/*nix marketshare on the server is on the rise again.

Unix+Linux won't ever obtain 70% of the market again but they are not in danger of extinction on the server, either.

Anonymous said...

I'm currently writing this on PC-BSD 7.

I'm pretty impressed so far but Adobe Flash player seems to be a problem.

I'm sure I'll figure this out because there is Swfdec , Gnash, Windows Flashplayer via Wine, and Linux Flashplayer in FreeBSD via nspluginwrapper.

.net jerkface said...

I have one more to add:

A Guide Through The Linux Sound API Jungle
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis.html

What a clusterfuck of a mess linux is. You have to read a goddamn guide to help you decide which sound api to target.
Microsoft must have a pact with the devil since only supernatural powers could give them competition this incompetent.

Anonymous said...

jerkface,

Just because sound is all fucked up doesn't make everything fucked up. Windows has more then one USB stack by the way.

It's all irrelevant, if the sound fucking plays why should the end user care about this shit.

Anonymous said...

@anon:
* The sound system is fucked up (can use multiple sources).
* The Video system is fucked up (X sucks).
* The filesystem is fucked up (ext3 is terrible).
* Hardware support is fucked up (webcam, acpi, power, video drivers, printers)
* The UI is fucked up (gnome is stangate, kde4 is broken).
* The software is fucked up (most high profile end-user software is terrible)
* The community is fucked up (zealots and fanatics FTW)

There's nothing in Linuxland that isn't fucked up. Except the developers, since they wouldn't distinguish RMS mouth from a pussy.

Anonymous said...

IMHO anything above the X.org layer is seriously fucked up in Linux. Worse, they don't know is fucked up, so they keep wasting their development efforts on something that is completely broken.

There is no global vision, no coordinated effort, no courage to accept it's hopeless, tear the whole thing down and start from scratch.

Anonymous said...

What is so wrong with ext3? Legitimate question, I'd just like to know.

Anonymous said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext3

Anonymous said...

Err... um not really. 10+ years ago, maybe 65-70%. Remember we're talking more than just HTTP web servers here.

10 years ago it was more like 85 percent for UNIX/Linux. The emphasis is on the UNIX side, obviously. And the article you cite says NOTHING about the state of things a decade ago, so quit with the luser nonsense of lame references.

I found these numbers particularly enlightening:

Linux servers, $1.9 billion.
Unix server revenue, $4.6 billion
Microsoft Windows server revenue, $5.1 billion

"Windows servers account for the single largest segment of spending, by operating system, in the worldwide server market," according to the report.

Ouch.

How you can paint this as a triumph for Linux is beyond me.

Anonymous said...

It's all irrelevant, if the sound fucking plays why should the end user care about this shit.

But that's the problem: in most cases, it just doesn't work, or it will work one day and then the other. And telling end users they don't really need sound or that they must try to fix up a FUBARed situation on their own just isn't a user-friendly strategy. Hence the 0.93% market share.

Anonymous said...

10 years ago it was more like 85 percent for UNIX/Linux. The emphasis is on the UNIX side, obviously. And the article you cite says NOTHING about the state of things a decade ago, so quit with the luser nonsense of lame references.

I find it very hard to believe Unix/*nix ever had 85% of the market. Unix and Windows aren't the only contenders. There are other OSes like z/OS.

I found these numbers particularly enlightening:

Linux servers, $1.9 billion.
Unix server revenue, $4.6 billion
Microsoft Windows server revenue, $5.1 billion

"Windows servers account for the single largest segment of spending, by operating system, in the worldwide server market," according to the report.


Yes, I read this part but what was interesting is that Linux had an overall growth of 10% year after year. Unix has a growth of 7.7% and Windows Server had an overall growth of 1.7%.

Anonymous said...

* The sound system is fucked up (can use multiple sources).

Well there is Gstreamer and Xine for multimedia frameworks and sound server APIs, such as Alsa, OSS, PulseAudio, ESD, Jack, and rTs.

The situation is very much a huge mess, I agree.

The good thing is the vast majority of FOSS applications support the most common ones.

I'm on PC-BSD now and virtually all applications in the ports tree support OSS and/or PulseAudio.

* The Video system is fucked up (X sucks).

What exactly is fucked up about Xorg 7.4?

Now X-Server 1.5.1 has decent auto-detection of hardware supported by the included Xorg drivers. With Xrandr its now possible to dynamically change and rotate screens without restarting X--plug in a new monitor or projector for instance. Xinput now supports hot-plugging of input devices like mice, keyboards, Wacom writing tablets, etc.

* The filesystem is fucked up (ext3 is terrible).

There is nothing wrong with ext3. It is essentially ext2 with journaling support. Its an age-tested, robust filesystem that resists fragmentation (except when low free space remains on the partition) and data corruption.

Ext4 is available but not yet ready for production environments.

Anyway, on PC-BSD I'm using UFS2 w/ soft updates. UFS2 w/ journaling and ZFS are also available but I have no use for it ATM.

* Hardware support is fucked up (webcam, acpi, power, video drivers, printers)

Linux 2.6.26/27 has major improvements with webcam support. Except for the buggy ACPI implementations in some motherboard BIOSs that Linux doesn't cope well with, all else in this list is horseshit.

* The UI is fucked up (gnome is stangate, kde4 is broken).

Gnome 2.24 was just released a few days ago. Gnome isn't stagnant... the features and APIs have just stabilized is all--until Gnome 3.0 anyway.

I'm using KDE 4.1.1 right now and its actually pretty decent. There are a few bugs lingering here and there but its far from the shit that was KDE 4.0.0.

* The software is fucked up (most high profile end-user software is terrible).

Yes, because you say so? I'll admit that most FOSS aren't quite at the level of the best commercial mainstream apps that cost an arm and leg. However there are shit tons of commercial apps that make FOSS appear like diamonds.

Anyway the importance of FOSS on a platform like Linux is two-fold. Without free software, non-mainstream platforms would virtually have no software and therefore zero functionality.

* The community is fucked up (zealots and fanatics FTW)

Agreed. Now I'm using PC-BSD so at least the OS isn't a religion.

WOWZA said...

Those of you laughing at Shuttleworth's comment are retarded. Of coarse Linux can't replace Windows right now. I would hope no company the size and the cash reserves of Microsoft would be so inept as to be unseated overnight. Heck if that happened it would be a blow to the US Economy. I mean literally these guys have enough cash money to affect monetary policy. Why you think Apple makes boot camp? Cause they are nice? Heck no, they know many Mac users need Windows. If a linux project was smart they would find a way to easily install Windows from Linux kinda like how Wubi makes installing Linux from Windows. Now Linux is getting there but freetards like Stallman really need to STFU. Maybe they need to focus on some easily development tools. Maybe more distros should support stuff like CNR.

Pizuz said...

Interesting articles. The last link about your fellow hater made me remember the struggles Ubuntu users currently have to get some basic functionality back into Update Manager, because one maintainer decided that displaying version changes was unnecessary cruft.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I read this part but what was interesting is that Linux had an overall growth of 10% year after year. Unix has a growth of 7.7% and Windows Server had an overall growth of 1.7%.

When you start with a low, shitty base, a large percentage in growth is easier to attain. First rule of business is that growth rate isn't always meaningful, especially when comparing a low base versus a high one. Lusers also assume that the rate of growth is important, when it's really not.

Anonymous said...

I find it very hard to believe Unix/*nix ever had 85% of the market. Unix and Windows aren't the only contenders. There are other OSes like z/OS.

A decade ago was the boom-boom time in the Internet and networking when Sun couldn't keep servers in stock. What you find hard to believe isn't really relevant, grasshopper.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing wrong with ext3.

No offense, but a single user sitting on a non-database-intense PC-BSD system may not be in the best position to evaluate it. Don't be a freetard.

Anonymous said...

Those of you laughing at Shuttleworth's comment are retarded.

Maybe you didn't get it. The fact that Shuttleworth admits Linux desktop is nowhere ready just shows that he is one of the few sane, head above shoulders, guy in Linux land right now. And so, we didn't laugh at him, but at all freetards spamming us with his "superior OS" religion that now have to listen a leader saying what we all know: Linux sucks, big time.

Anonymous said...

I'll admit that most FOSS aren't quite at the level of the best commercial mainstream apps that cost an arm and leg.

This freetard shit tires me.

Let's say I'm running a $1-million publishing house -- a small business, by most measures. I'm told that a multiuser copy of InDesign CS4 costs $800. My business relies on it, and I can install it on two machines.

It's a no-brainer -- a very reasonable cost of business.

So freetards need to SHUT THE FUCK UP about commercial software being too expensive. Yeah, if you're a typical freetard living in your mother's basement and delivering pizza because no one appreciates your bash scripting skills, then $800 is a lot.

But it's not for the real pros -- and that's why lusers are really losers.

Anonymous said...

"Why the hell write filenames only and always in lowercase and without extension ? Does freetards knows that there is a key on their keyboards that allows them to write uppercase characters ?"

Isn't that obvious? Well I thought people use terminal from time to time and write scripts from time to time. After all this system has always been geek-friendly.

Anonymous said...

Compiz not only looks better, has far more effects, but requires less resources too.

If only worked... now that would be a feat.

Anon E Moose said...

People will outgrow the compiz fad before it's finished.

It's good for a few hours of fun, but doesn't really add anything in the way of usability or increasing productivity (for me anyway).

Me, I got tired of having a slow laggy desktop where emerald would just up and crash randomly. And that's just the worst of it.
I don't even use the thing any more.

Function first, and then worry about form...

Anonymous said...

Nope.
It's "Stuff that's fun to write first,
whatever comes next, fuck you".

Anonymous said...

@anon:
* The sound system is fucked up (can use multiple sources).
-----
Yeah I agree with you here. But from an end-user perspective it doesn't make a fucking difference. As long as the right libraries are installed (the package manager takes of this) the sound will play. It's a development problem not an end user problem, 99.9% of Linux users won't ever need to care what the difference between PulseAudio and ALSA is.

-----
* The Video system is fucked up (X sucks).
-----

X is one of the best designed windowing systems ever created. It was made by a bunch of real smart people at MIT, I doubt you can ever understand how it works. To this day it is the only one with true network transparency, and it's highly extendable and actively developed. So screw your bullshit.

----
* The filesystem is fucked up (ext3 is terrible).
----
ext3 it's one of many filesystems available for Linux including ext4, xfs, nfts, etc.

ext3 (which is really just ext2 with journaling) is one the fastest and most reliable filesystems ever invented. It's truly a marvel of modern engineering. That is why it is used so often by Linux users.

----
* Hardware support is fucked up (webcam, acpi, power, video drivers, printers)
----

Linux supports more webcams out of the box then any other operating system. It in general, has the best hardware support of any operating system in existence. Video drivers could be better, but Windows also has some terrible video drivers, especially Nvidia drivers.

-----
* The UI is fucked up (gnome is stangate, kde4 is broken).
-----

Gnome and KDE are actively developed, and KDE 4.1 is actually very good.

----
* The software is fucked up (most high profile end-user software is terrible)
----
What like Firefox? X-Chat? Amarok? These programs are widely used by Windows as well. Does anyone still even use Internet Explorer? The end user applications on Linux I would say are superior to the crapware typically bundled with a OEM windows machine, or stuff written by Microsoft.

-----
* The community is fucked up (zealots and fanatics FTW)
-----

This website proves this problem is universal (Windows, Linux and Mac OS X zealots). To nerds operating systems are like sports teams I guess.

Anon E Moose said...

True. That's just my own philisophy, however.

Like when we got to choose what laptop we wanted, within a budget of $x. The other guys chose macbooks, and I took a Thinkpad T61p

I have, for about the same money: a faster CPU, better video chip, bigger screen, a tough chassis, the worlds best notebook keyboard, etc... My drive is smaller than theirs, but only because I picked a 7200RPM model instead of a larger 5400RPM one (not that they had any choice).

They both run Windows XP on their crapbooks anyway.

So while the mac is dead sexy (to some), my utilitarian Thinkpad is clearly the better machine, from a function standpoint, save that I can't (nicely) run an OS on it that I don't want to run anyway.

Anonymous said...

Windows Mobile 7 seriously delayed:

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/26/windows-mobile-7-phone-release-now-seriously-delayed-could-be-as-late-as-2010/

HA HA HA HA.
Just add this on top of the massive pile of delayed and substandard proprietary software packages from good ol' Microsuck.

Anonymous said...

X-Chat? Amarok? These programs are widely used by Windows as well. Does anyone still even use Internet Explorer?

Boy, you live in some kind of parallel universe, don't you? A strange place where Amarok is widely used by Windows users, one where Internet Explorer has no users.

Anonymous said...

Windows Mobile 7 seriously delayed:

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/26/windows-mobile-7-phone-release-now-seriously-delayed-could-be-as-late-as-2010/

HA HA HA HA.
Just add this on top of the massive pile of delayed and substandard proprietary software packages from good ol' Microsuck.


Sad for you it will have a larger market share than desktop Linux the day it launches.

How does it feel to live in 0.93% market-share land, freetard?

Anonymous said...

Linux supports more webcams out of the box then any other operating system.

Of course, the webcams were all released before 1993.

Anonymous said...

try ubuntu-eee.com 8.04.1 - everything on my 901 worked out of the box...

.net jerkface said...


As long as the right libraries are installed (the package manager takes of this) the sound will play. It's a development problem not an end user problem,


It does make a difference because it is so easy for one application to fuck the sound up for another. It also serves as a disincentive for writing linux software, as if linux needed another.
Linux supports more webcams out of the box then any other operating system.

Oh right and websites like this one don't exist
http://alpha.dyndns.org/ov511/cameras.html

X is one of the best designed windowing systems ever created

X was designed for 70’s terminal computing. It has only been hacked into a desktop windowing system because nothing else was available. It still doesn’t provide a full api like windows or os/x, which ends up meaning that apps need to be tested in both kde and gnome.
KDE 4.1 is actually very good.

Ok this is getting funny. Are you a parody of a linux defender? Do I need to post all the reviews of how buggy kde 4.1 is?

but Windows also has some terrible video drivers, especially Nvidia drivers.

Windows has terrible nvidia windows drivers? Like what? Ones that work well and can be used with the latest games? Is that your definition of terrible?

Does anyone still even use Internet Explorer

I do, as do most people. IE7 is a huge improvement over IE6 and I still run into websites that haven’t been tested in firefox.

You really need to work on your penguin dance. It's too over the top, too predictable. You need to add some of your own moves. Take some tips from Julian67. He can do a reverse running man to funky penguin shuffle all while wearing the penguin outfit. You need to step up your game a bit if you are think you can just strut on in here and compete with his moves.
You will get served.

.net jerkface said...


HA HA HA HA.
Just add this on top of the massive pile of delayed and substandard proprietary software packages from good ol' Microsuck.


You know what is funny?
The iphone already has 1/3 of linux's desktop market share.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10

Linux is free yet has a minority share when it comes to cell phones. This is interesting since the cell phone is locked down hardware and most the of apps are written in java. If linux was half as good as it is hyped there wouldn't even be a market for windows mobile.

Anonymous said...

The penguins are out in full force. Should we hand out the emmy?

@eee This is the comment that sums it up..


The last few nights I spent a lot of time to replace Xandros on my 901. First I tried Xandros, enabled full-desktop-mode and added repositories until everything was broken…

Then I installed Debian with an EeePC 901 net-installer image which included the atl1e ethernet driver. Unfortunately I had to patch and compile the Ralink wireless driver afterwards. But acpi was not fully working and using the volume keys didn’t work either.
So I looked at Ubuntu-Eee and Eeebuuntu. Both do not fully support the 901 model currently. This was very depressing!

Anonymous said...

"Linux is free yet has a minority share when it comes to cell phones. This is interesting since the cell phone is locked down hardware and most the of apps are written in java. If linux was half as good as it is hyped there wouldn't even be a market for windows mobile."

Well Android has just been released and will probably pose a serious challange, so that may come true soon.

Anonymous said...

Android may be Linux's great break into the mobile world.
All previous attempt by Nokia and Motorola failed miserably (and of course, nobody ever gave a crap about the neo1973 freerunner..)

Anonymous said...

It in general, has the best hardware support of any operating system in existence.

ROFL. Now that's delusional.

Anonymous said...

Why can't Linux had generic drivers like Windows? If Windows doesn't have the drivers for your graphic card is still able to work with generic vga drivers or motherboard drivers, this giving you the opportunity to be able to install drivers afterwards! But with linux no.. I tried a 2006 version of linux in my brand new PC and was not been able to boot up my PC even in safe mode! The screen was completely fucked up!

To be successful linux must follow some standards (its a jungle out there) and increase its user friendliness (terminal must be optional..)

Pizuz said...

There are generic graphics drivers. Maybe the guy maintaining the graphics stack in the distribution you tried managed to disable them or something.

Or your gfx card can't communicate in VESA.

Anonymous said...

Re EeePC 901 distro. Wait 6 months then use one of the "big" distros or sell the device and use the money for something else. Anything else is going to be painful while the device driver and quirks situation is sorted out (ALSA drivers for the 901 only just squeaked into 2.6.27rc? , bluetooth toggling will need a small patch to eeelaptop, ralink wifi with free(tard) drivers is being worked on etc). You can use any of the big distros released this month if you can put up with 50% breakage (hotkeys, wifi etc). The current state is classic Linux really.

Just be thankful you don't have an EeePC 900 with the battery drain problem - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_PC#Battery_Drain .

Anonymous said...

Or, just install XP and be done with it.

Anonymous said...

Or, just install XP and be done with it.

Unless you are a real freetard like the one linked in:

http://ubuntukids.org/blog/?p=102

I have absolutely no interest in putting windows on this no matter how well it may work

Just amazing. I think this guy really deserves a non-working system.

Anonymous said...

I was a luser and anti-MS evangelist for almost a decade (albeit mostly *BSD later on, as I felt GNU/Linux wasn't free enough), but I, too, eventually found my way back to Windows -- now everything just works.

I used to be one of those console junkies; I'd code in [n]vi and write my own makefiles, as I scoffed at even Vim and the sucktastic Linux IDEs. Now on Windows, I spend less time to accomplish much more.

I'd file bug reports and test alpha-level software, only to have the bugs confirmed but persist for years and years (e.g., some of the Gnome bugs I filed in the late 1990s are still open today). Now I don't need to bother.

I'd write even the simplest notes in LaTeX and send others converted PDFs. Now I use Microsoft Word and give others something they can work with (although I do still use LaTeX at times).

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Now I'm much happier. I have a life outside of *nix. My computer has returned to being a tool, not a political statement. The hassle of "open source" isn't worth it.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous freetard:

//HA HA HA HA.
Just add this on top of the massive pile of delayed and substandard proprietary software packages from good ol' Microsuck.//

Right, because it's SO much better to release every 2-3 months, and break everything that was working before, ala every linux distro.

Cockmonkey.

Anonymous said...

[b]It in general, has the best hardware support of any operating system in existence.[/b]

Wow this is gold!!!. Can't get any more FOSSy than this.

Anonymous said...

Hey LinuxHater,

You should go and write some South Park episodes!!.

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@ .net Jerkface

You really need to work on your penguin dance. It's too over the top, too predictable. You need to add some of your own moves. Take some tips from Julian67. He can do a reverse running man to funky penguin shuffle all while wearing the penguin outfit. You need to step up your game a bit if you are think you can just strut on in here and compete with his moves.
You will get served.


That's the funniest post I've read in a long time!

Anonymous said...

I have absolutely no interest in putting windows on this no matter how well it may work

He's crazy, but at least he's not as hypocritical as all the other zealots here!

(I'm sure he's phony though; I bet he has his emergency XP partition like the rest of them.)

Anonymous said...

He's crazy, but at least he's not as hypocritical as all the other zealots here!

Only a bit, since he is complaining ans blaming Asus. If you think software is a religion, why the hell do you expect it to work too?

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Anonymous said...

Windows Mobile 7 seriously delayed:

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/26/windows-mobile-7-phone-release-now-seriously-delayed-could-be-as-late-as-2010/

HA HA HA HA.
Just add this on top of the massive pile of delayed and substandard proprietary software packages from good ol' Microsuck.


HA HA HA HA.

at least they are waiting for it to be finished before making a release (kde 4.0 anyone?)

Anonymous said...

X is one of the best designed windowing systems ever created. It was made by a bunch of real smart people at MIT, I doubt you can ever understand how it works.
basically a client - server protocol that tries to centralize all "mechanisms" (with a server implementing graphic primitives and text rendering, the mouse pointer, surface (window) creation, redraw, resize and placement, AND a clipboard, plus a library for use by applications and other services in the "X11 chain") and decentralize all "policies" ( such as widget -to- primitives rendering, or window "look and feel", delegated to the aplication or toolkit, and to an ad hoc "window manager" respectively)

basically a system in which the graphic server draws stuff and moves windows on account of his clients, not knowing what that stuff and those windows really are, and originally requiring a full round trip to - from the client application for every input event

that is, something nice from a theoretical point of view, but riddled with inefficiecies and potentially high latencies hindering desktop responsiveness partially mitigated by subsequent extensions to the original core protocol

since it's not all that difficult, i hope you understand you were insulting others that way...

To this day it is the only one with true network transparency,
as has been mentioned more than once, applications *do* perform a check whether the target server is local or networked, more often than not, taking different code paths based on the condition - there goes "true transparency"...

and it's highly extendable
correction: there's plenty of extensions, which is not really the same thing
most of the "extensions" have been added to the core protocol in order to make up for performance or functional deficiences that over time the x architecture have shown, in comparison to other GUI systems ( think of scalable objects, or antialiasing, or windows with non- rectangular shape or transparent parts - which pose problems with regards to pick correlation and radrawing )

that is, though called "extensions" they're not "optional" at all, unless you want your desktop to suck even more compared to OS X ' quartz - nevertheless, each is indeed optional from the perspective of the protocol, and this leads to either serious complications on the side of toolkit development ( with a different code path for whether every relevant extension is present or not)
OR the more likely stating of a baseline set of required extensions ( as is the case with most recent toolkits, that require RENDER and XRnR ) - but this removes compatibility between *every* toolkit/application version and *every* X server version, and defies one the very purposes of such decoupling ...

and actively developed
yes, because linux/unix gui applications, toolkits, WM's and desktops, are still locked in the vicious loop of being supportive of each other
but, while the X architecture may be elegant in theory and may have worked for some time, its anachronistic design makes breaking the circle harder and is ever increasingly less fit for a desktop world whose keywords are "streamlined", "gpu accelerated" and last but not least "just working" - )


So screw your bullshit.
so get more in touch with reality

Anonymous said...

"@anon
Wasn't DOS phased out in, like 1995?
Isn't the "." extension used by Unix software as well? (.ogg, .o, .a, whatever).

You're stupid inbred, go molest your daughter or something "

Do not assume other people are like yourself.
You are the one that is stupid the extension has no meaning at all in linux so you can put it where you fucking like you fucking idiot you are so stupid you are probably a republican.

Anonymous said...

"You're stupid inbred, go molest your daughter or something "

Do not assume other people are like yourself.
You are the one that is stupid the extension has no meaning at all in linux so you can put it where you fucking like you fucking idiot you are so stupid you are probably a republican."

What a mature and thoughtful reply. Hey, I wonder what all those file association options in kde are doing then? (technically, they use the MIME type, but have fun figuring out what file types all are music is in without an extension)

Anonymous said...

As a windows and linux user (pardus 2008) I mostly agree with you. Linux community is a bunch fuckin assholes. My buddy was banned from polih ubuntu forum just because he write that cups is crashing everyday and he had enough.

As for Vista - it is horrible. It thinks that all users are total morons - and i had enough of this. Just installed XP on my Vista-shipped notebook (glad that i could - my friend can't to this).

williamg said...

My question for the lusers in the audience is this. Why is it on Windows if I wanna use Amazon S3 I click on an icon and install the software I need and then BAM, Im there. if I want to use Ubuntu or any Linux distribution for that matter I have a long list of crap I have to do.

http://markusthielmann.com/blog/use_amazon_s3_with_ubuntu_hardy

What the shit guys. You claim to be easier to use than Windows, show me. I have 2 steps to follow in Windows, double click an Icon and check the agreement box on Linux, 20 steps.

Anonymous said...

I recommend Ubuntu-eee (www.ubuntu-eee.com) on any Eee PC.

The preinstalled Xandros really fucking sucks.

T.J. Crowder said...

Um... The BBC guy's biggest beef seems to be that Xandros and later Ubuntu couldn't sync with his iPod out of the box. Well, neither can Windows, you have to download and install iTunes. That's an Apple problem: A) Their complete unwillingness to let the iPod be a standard mass storage device, and B) Their not shipping iTunes for Linux.

His other beef was that when he wiped the OS that was working from the machine, and replaced it with another one, his wireless network didn't work. Gosh, I've never had trouble with network drivers for unusual hardware when I've done a raw Windows install rather than using a pre-installed copy already tweaked for me. Oh no, that doesn't happen.

It's too bad, because I'm quite sure there are many, many, MANY other things he could have pointed out that would be less easily made fun of...

segedunum said...

Hmmmmm. So this twat decided that he didn't like the the Xandros desktop and thought that it had been drawn by a four year old with crayons (a classic Gnome user's rant), completely re-installed a brown piece of turd called Ubuntu and whinged when it didn't work?

Shit.

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