Tuesday, September 9, 2008

Word to your mother

reddit is fucking awesome. It really is. It's got this whole Linux section where freetards automatically mod up the stupidest stories. I don't even have to go looking for material any more. It's just there.


This evening, I'd like to give a little shout out to a great new blog I found: "Help for Linux". This is like the archetype of a luser blog. Doesn't seem very popular, but I don't really understand why, as it has scintillating articles such as "Is Fedora better than Ubuntu?" or "7 Reasons Why KDE Sucks" (I hope you have your shit-shield equipped, dude).

But one post caught my eye in particular: "Mombuntu - Ubuntu For Your Mom!"

This post starts with your standard "why Linux is better than Windows" crap. But the rest of it is a list of instructions on how to set up Ubuntu so that it's palatable to your mentally retarded mother. Among his useful suggestions:
  • Install drivers that don't suck
  • Create desktop shortcuts like "Internet" and "Word"
  • Set OO to use the .doc format by default, "rather than explaining the difference between doc and odf"
  • Set up auto-login
  • Give her detailed instructions on how to write the Ubuntu forums or give her people to contact when she has questions
As I was reading through this list, I surprsingly found myself in agreement. Most of these suggestions would actually be useful. They simplify the experience, and reduce the cognitivie dissonance for the poor mother whose son just totally p0wned her computer.

Then I thought to myself, why the fuck do I have to read this list on a luser amateur's blog? Why aren't these same steps done out of the box? Really guys? some random dude can come up with numerous concrete suggestions for improvements in like 10 minutes?

Let's not forget that most of these steps are to make your brand new Linux act more like Windows...

235 flames:

«Oldest   ‹Older   1 – 200 of 235   Newer›   Newest»
Mehrdad said...

Long time, no see, dear hater!

Anonymous said...

Disappointed in the lack of meaty content, but I welcome the return of Linux Hater!

Anonymous said...

I thought we'd decided that Linux was beyond hope?

julian67 said...

"I don't even have to go looking for material any more. It's just there."

Your blog was impressive when you had something of your own to say instead of lamely trawling other people's blogs and now cruising reddit. There's nothing new or interesting here. You're not offering any insight, any critcism, just links to what other people say. I have an rss reader for that.....

thecodewitch said...

Nothing like a fresh LinuxHater post to ease the shakes and liven up the day.

Ubuntu by default doesn't play proprietary video, audio formats like MP3, Avi, and pretty much every format you are used to, I don't know why but that's the way it is.

Poor little guy. The nightmare has just begun for him. Its like he's landed in the last level of Doom 1, with no armor and armed only with a pistol, just waiting to get toasted by the freetard Imps and Cacodemons that will spawn around his blog without end.

USE THE CHEAT CODE!! ITS "IDKFA"!!! TYPE IT NOW!! BEFORE THE FREETARD HELLSPAWN EAT YOU ALIVE!! SHOOT THE STALLMAN TEXTURE TO END THE GAME AND GO BACK TO WINDOWS!!

thepld said...

I work at a technical support firm for a University. Today, we had a guy come in, complaining of a "program" a coworker installed a week ago. He said it was ugly and useless and absolutely nothing worked. That program? Ubuntu, which my coworker, being a freetard, installed in lieu of Windows because the client didn't have his CD key handy.

Do you think I should have gotten the coworker to explain to the client that he's a druggie, addicted to proprietary software? Because as we all know, you must either be a evil MS shill or stupid to use actually functioning software.

Anonymous said...

Should who's son be whose? "Who is" doesn't seem to quite make sense in that context...

Anonymous said...

windows vista rocks if u have 4gigs of ram. linux fried my laptop hardrive, am never going to use linux again, everrr...

may be u can post on the load cycle count issue once?

Chakib Khelil said...

Good to see LH back.

LH, I have an idea for you: When I first tried out Linux many years ago, I was utterly frustrated at the stupidity of the names of the pre-installed programs.

For example, on Windows and OSX if you want a Calculator, you open a program called Calculator. If you're looking for somewhere to write text, on Windows it would be Wordpad or Notepad and on OSX, TextEdit.

At the time (I think I had a RedHat install before it was called Fedora) it was impossible to friggin' find where the bloody calculator was among a crapload of programs with stupid non-descriptive names like Kwank, Gnshit, GeekyReference, MythicalKreature, ScifiReference, LOTRreference, TooStupid, UnIntuitive, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

So I'm looking at all this and think -- "I just want to find a bloody calculator!! Why do these geeks make something SO FUCKING SIMPLE SO FUCKING DIFFICULT???"

(Interesting how Lusers rant on about how "Micro$oft" and PC manufacturers bundles lots of software with their machines. *Cough* Excuse me, but what about the absolute motherload of crapware pre-installed with Linux distros? TONS of the stuff. And what is more, it is not the slightest bit obvious what the hell all these pieces of crap do because they're given the stupidest, most unprofessional and amateurish names possible.

Think of "photoshop" -- it probably has something to do with photos, images, etc.

"PaintShopPro" -- probably something to do with painting, graphics, etc.

And now the Freetard version:

"GIMP" -- probably something to do with perverted sex, right??

Please do a post on Freetard's stupidest, non-intuitive names of their all their inferior windows software rip-offs.

thecodewitch said...

chakib, you are obviously not hip and counter cultural enough to use Linux.

Don't worry though - the eminently wise and hip nerds that create and use Linux are our superiors, and they assure us that Linux is the New Wave, and they say that we'll all be using Linux on our personal adding machines, tabulators, card sorters, and all manner of electronic and electro-pneumatic computing devices by as early as say, 1997, but certainly no later than 1999/2000.

Harish Kumar said...

aunI Linux hater , welcome back ! Life was boring without you !!

Well said Chekib Khelil about that GIMP stuff !

Even I used to wonder how that name came from. Infact I thought it was some americanism like n00bie and w00t or things like that , some latest addition to the english vocab thought by young hyperenthusiastic americans.

When I asked if they had a free version of Photoshop they told me to "just go and GIMP". I didnt know what it meant and searched through all the online dictonaries created to help parents understand teenage slang , but couldnt find it at all !!!

Very much later I discovered it was a clone of Photoshop !

Anonymous said...

Hey, Julian:

http://practical-tech.com/infrastructure/lenovo-exits-pre-installed-linux-desktop-business/

Discuss. And then tell us again, oh wounded Black Knight, why this is a GOOD thing for Linux and why any day now Lenovo will reassert its love for Linux. And then tell us why the author of this article, the Linux-loving Steven Vaughn-Nichols, really is a Linux hater in disguise and a useful idiot for Microsoft.

Spin your way out of this one, freetard.

To say desktop Linux is on life support is overestimating its future in the commercial world. Lusers will look back at the 0.83% market-share days with nostalgia.

Anonymous said...

julian67,
GFY. I, on the other hand, don't spend my time reading luser blogs. Not just because it's pointless, but they're pretty much samey in most cases.

LHB does the job of picking LOL-fruits for me. Ty, LHB. :)

AC said...

Keep picking this pearls of wisdom. You're a public service :-)

Anonymous said...

julian67,
GFY.


Give poor julian a break. Our own little special-needs student got totally p0wned in another thread, and he's more than a little tetchy about it. We represent a little window into the real world for him, and sometimes he not properly appreciative.

Anonymous said...

Install drivers that don't suck

No go. Freetards hate things that work (well). Using proprietary drivers is wrong!

Ubuntu by default doesn't play proprietary video, audio formats like MP3, Avi, and pretty much every format you are used to, I don't know why but that's the way it is.

It's because of licensing, or so they say. I can't say I've ever known a case where Fraunhoffer actually demanded royalties on MP3, and even if they decided to, they're in the same boat as the people who own .gif. It's too late. So I'd reckon it's an excuse to push OGG Vorbis, which in all fairness is a great format, it's just not widely used. Users want to listen to their MP3s, Fraunhoffer isn't charging royalties, I don't see what the problem is here.

I remember when Automatix was the big thing, and Ubuntu was going on about how installing proprietary codecs is dangerous, you shouldn't do it, and they won't support you if you do. Brilliant!

Mail Notifier: Install mail notifier for you Ubuntu. If you use Gmail I'd highly recommend you to use CheckGmail it is the best mail notifier on any OS.

Never understood why there isn't a first-run wizard to do this.

ODF vs. DOC

Same idea as MP3, there's no good reason not to have OOo work with doc by default. It may not be an open standard, but it's the standard document format all the same.

I'd have to advise against turning automatic updates on though. We all know what happens to Ubuntu come update time...

It's really refreshing to see that some lusers actually "get it", though. It's a good effort, except it begs for the question, Why?

Why subject one's own mother to Linux? is it worth the effort to set things up like this anyway? What's your mom have to gain from using Linux, anyway? Why is it so important to have your mom using Linux? Is it that hard to set up an AV/Firewall and remote assistance and just leave them be?

Anonymous said...

His "Mombuntu" epicly fails by forgetting that no Luser would ever do so out besides trying to learn something out of the experience. Lusers love to suffer trought crappy programs, infinite bug solving time, just to take something out of it all. So unless your mom is a computer geek, she won't be a Luser for long, or even care. And if she is, Mombuntu is useless.

Anonymous said...

I'll tell you why:

Suppose a very reasonable scenario where "your momma" only wants to read news online, navigate in general, check the online email, listen to mp3, watch movies, read pdf's and docs.

- Firefox is an excellent browser, a lot of common non-technical-at-all users already use it, and are happy with it.

- If you go to synaptic and install blah1 blah2 and blah3 you get support for all the proprietary formats, including wmv and wma.

Now it's your turn to tell me, why do I have to pay a Windows license for obtaining this same functionality?

BTW most proprietary formats suck, there are free and better replacements (ogg, h.264, matroska), they just live out of inertia.

Anonymous said...

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but h.264 is not a patent free codec - indeed it is patended and the free implementations are dubious in nature.

Anonymous said...

Wikipedia:

Consensus in discussions is that the allowable use depends on the laws of local jurisdictions. If operating or shipping a product in a country or group of countries where none of the patents covering H.264 apply, then using, for example, an LGPL implementation of the codec is not a problem: There is no conflict between the software license and the (non-existent) patent license.


God bless Europe :)

Anonymous said...

His "Mombuntu" epicly fails by forgetting that no Luser would ever do so out besides trying to learn something out of the experience. Lusers love to suffer trought crappy programs, infinite bug solving time, just to take something out of it all. So unless your mom is a computer geek, she won't be a Luser for long, or even care. And if she is, Mombuntu is useless.

You didn't understand the article. Luser is supposed to make Ubuntu better for his Mom, and everything should be fine. Mom has fixed computer and whenever something breaks, Luser comes in and fixes things, and everybody is happy.

Platypus said...

Great point, Chakib. WTF do "Amarok" or "Kopete" mean? What does the name "Kaffeine" have to do with what the program Kaffeine actually does? Don't even get me started on all the projects whose names are just puns on other projects that were badly named to begin with - Geronimo, Comanche, Cherokee, enough already.

Vasiliy Faronov said...

It’s sad to see Linux Hater turn from caustic but insightful remarks to pointless whining just for the sake of it. You’ve lost a reader in me :-(

Vasiliy Faronov said...

platypus: I agree 100%. Names like “PowerPoint”, “Excel”, “Nero”, “Opera”, “Delphi” etc. are so much more obvious and self-explanatory.

Anonymous said...

Now it's your turn to tell me, why do I have to pay a Windows license for obtaining this same functionality?

This myth of the Microsoft tax has gotta stop. It's been debunked 50 million different ways, with Dell actually charging MORE for a Linux desktop, and the lusers still cling to this like it means something.

Lusers: in the real world the component cost of Windows is not the #1 variable. Things like the cost of support, future maintainability and configuration issues all play into it.

The fact that Fry's -- where the chintzy DIYers shop -- doesn't even carry a Linux desktop anymore should tell you loads about the
"Microsoft tax."

Anonymous said...

PowerPoint actually makes sense because you create a series of talking points in a presentation.

And Opera has its roots in the Linux world, which explains the naming, ;)

As for Delphi...an example from this millennium might work better for you.

Anonymous said...

What about the MS Office tax ?
Why the laptops doesn't cost more with win installed? (This is a genuine question, I really don't know).

Anonymous said...

hey all u LHs, don't worry bout a thing.. everything is BALANCED in this world...

windoze users: find cracked windoze and some cracked software for windoze to get your ''work'' done :p

linux users: crack a wifi.. the kind of ''work'' you like.. you should know how windoze works(?) too..

mac users: give your computer back to steve.. go buy some clothes.. go buy an iPod touch.. then crack it and give it back to steve.

Anonymous said...


It’s sad to see Linux Hater turn from caustic but insightful remarks to pointless whining just for the sake of it. You’ve lost a reader in me :-(

Maybe we should shut down slashdot too :-(

Anonymous said...


BTW most proprietary formats suck, there are free and better replacements (ogg, h.264, matroska), they just live out of inertia.

Um, no, "most" don't suck. You're comparing OLD proprietary formats with NEW free formats.

When was OGG created, 20 years after mp3? Heh..

It might be a better format, but your comparison is flawed anyway.

Anonymous said...

It's not flawed, because the people still massively uses mp3, don't they?.

That illustrates us about the relative weight of the variables "quality" and "inertia".

Anonymous said...

but they do still live because off inertia

Anonymous said...

so what? That wasn't the point of contention.

Anonymous said...


What about the MS Office tax ?
Why the laptops doesn't cost more with win installed? (This is a genuine question, I really don't know).

WTF is this tax crap. Large segments of users *want* windows installed. Those that do not, find a way to either build their own PCs or buy it with linux or get them assembled from some local "oem".


I know that a lot of OEMs make money when they install crapware on new pcs. So far it looks like the crapware vendors are getting some return on their investment, or else they would have stopped shipping it....

Anonymous said...

I know that a lot of OEMs make money when they install crapware on new pcs.

So that's why I bought a laptop and it came with Vista and loads of stupidware. Running incredibly slow day #1, craptastic. Very happy with Xp + Ubuntu now.

Anonymous said...


So that's why I bought a laptop and it came with Vista and loads of stupidware.

No, It came with that because you *asked* for it to be there.

Anonymous said...

No, I didn't. Nobody in the world ask for the stupidware that uses to came with windows, it's annoying for everyone. It's not only software spam, it slows your computer down.

Anonymous said...

no we did not ask for vista either, ms pushes it on us

Anonymous said...


No, I didn't. Nobody in the world ask for the stupidware that uses to came with windows, it's annoying for everyone. It's not only software spam, it slows your computer down.

Hmm, I'm fairly certain they have that shit mentioned in some fine print in the EULA or some other legalese.

After all since its a sale, the product should be described, somewhere.

Anonymous said...


no we did not ask for vista either, ms pushes it on us

how is that?

Anonymous said...

how is that?
buy a laptop to find out how

Anon E Moose said...

It's kinda pathetic to see some of you winding Jules up before he even takes his shot. Getting a little pre-emptive flaming in, are we?


As to the "Microsoft Tax"

I went to configure an Inspiron Mini 9 today, just for giggles.

$469 for the high end Windows version, with the hardware that I wanted. The Ubuntu version, upgraded to the same hardware loadout costs, get this: $469

OMG, I think we'd better call shenanigans on Dell.

Anonymous said...

"And then tell us again, oh wounded Black Knight, why this is a GOOD thing for Linux and why any day now Lenovo will reassert its love for Linux."

Lenovo already came out with some non-committal BS that is designed to keep the Lintards happy and contented while Lenovo continues to cleanse itself of Linux.

Not that something like that is needed for our Julian here. Even among Linux losers, this guy stands out. He is special.

Anonymous said...

buy a laptop to find out how
www.google.com/search?q=linux+laptops

Anonymous said...

it has to do with instant savings, i did a full blown configuration on both and ended up with a $40 diff

Anonymous said...

www.google.com/search?q=xp?

Anonymous said...

It's not too surprising that Dell charges more for Ubuntu if you think about it. Sure, the OS itself is free, but the engineering time that Dell had to put into making sure it works with their hardware, customizing the UI to make it usable, etc isn't. Neither is the support they'll have to provide to users, which will probably be an order of magnitude more for the Linux version than the XP version. Microsoft has lower costs because they have an OS that is already usable, doesn't require work from Dell, and comes with a well-trained, highly efficient support machine. So what do you expect?

Anonymous said...

it's clear you have not used ubuntu

Anonymous said...

Another one for your link round ups - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7594249.stm (Linux hippies strike again!).

Anonymous said...

dell has 3 inspiron offers, the cheapest come with ubuntu in order to bring interest in it (don't come on me saying lusers are cheap bastards, go check your torrentz)and offers a $40 discount to the most expensive one in order to sell more of it and make more profit easily.
now the ms tax is there, all of us have paid for it. ok 40-50 dollars (for xp!yes!yes!) isn't much but the real pain comes in when you have to multiply it by the number of pcs in your business
screw ms

Anonymous said...

now the ms tax is there, all of us have paid for it. ok 40-50 dollars (for xp!yes!yes!) isn't much but the real pain comes in when you have to multiply it by the number of pcs in your business

Ever heard of a volume discount, freetard?

Anonymous said...

ever heard of small business proptard?

Anonymous said...

as usual the comments section has nothing to do with lh's post and just resolves in less than mediocre flames
on the mombuntu thing: almost there but a mom has to have a nerdy son to be "free" (same thing (but with much less nerdiness) goes for moms on windows) canonical(and linux) is interested in "bringing you the latest blah blah blah..." bs not in delivering smt useful for everyone

Anonymous said...

Ever heard of a volume discount, freetard?

Do you realize how few PCs you need to buy to qualify for a volume discount, luser? If you're whining about the need to spend $40 ONE TIME on software your business will use EVERY DAY then you should close up shop, because you're a shitty businessperson.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter, as the overall price on hardware has been going down, down, down, over the years and has more than offset this so-called Microsoft tax. By the way, it'd technically be a fee and not a tax.

Anonymous said...

I laugh at people who get pissed off because they have to pay to use an operating system.

Anon E Moose said...

The Dell "discount" on the high end 9 is probably the same as Lenovo with their "sale" on Thinkpads. I was shopping for one last spring, and every time the deadline for the "sale" ended, they pushed it back a few more weeks. Just checked right now and they're still "on sale" for "up to 25% off".

Just like the gas stations city-wide here that for years now put the sign price 3.5cents above the pump price and tell you you've saved money.
permanent pseudo-sales = marketing BS.

The high end Linux 9 costs as much as the same Windows version. That's all that matters, until they change the price.

Anonymous said...

Linus beats Bill in cock sucking contest.

Linus triumphed over Bill in an amazing sixty-two to zero win. Linus, who was seen with up to four cocks in his mouth at the same time, managed to successfully ejaculate and swallow sixty-two men in a heated competition against Bill. Bill, apparently didn't understand the competition as he was seen having his cock sucked the entire time. This is an amazing victory for Linux users everywhere. Commemorative t-shirts and hats are now on sale.

Anonymous said...

platypus: I agree 100%. Names like “PowerPoint”, “Excel”, “Nero”, “Opera”, “Delphi” etc. are so much more obvious and self-explanatory.

Dude, do you even see your point here?

How come Nero self explains it to you that it's a cd/dvd burning application, or Opera is a browser? Delphi maybe?

Once you open the start menu in linux, you see for example that GIMP is GNU Image Manipulation Program (for especially challenged hint: it's in the graphics section)... how hard is that to get? Or you mean while guessing which program will be playing with the images on windows, you intuitively came up to Windows picture and fax viewer without looking into menu?

Floyd

Adam Petaccia said...

Could you please post something has to do with Linux instead of stupid people who use it? Yes, Linux has stupid fanboys (Mac's I personally think are worse), and Microsoft Windows has it's fanboys too. All of whom say stupid shit. They're fanboys. Duh.

About the people talking about application names, "GIMP Image Editor" is much more clear than "Photoshop" (assuming you don't use it as a verb). "Text Editor" seems more intuitive than "Wordpad" etc. Notice how all the programs actaully state what they do. Even Pidgin is "Pidgin Internet Messenger".

Anonymous said...


I laugh at people who get pissed off because they have to pay to use an operating system.

Stop projecting your own frustrations on others. I have a laugh at the entire freetard community who shit their pants EVERY time a microsoft article hits the press. Its funny how gates probably spent all of 0.0001 seconds thinking about the freetards but they seem to be obsessed with him and his little company. Its hilarious.


Its almost a sure shot way to generate some ad revenue from the freetards. just write an article either praising ms or bitching about linux and watch the zombies roll in.


But don't worry, maybe one day you can actually do something useful with your free toy OS. Maybe play a few games, run some quality commercial software, etc. Too bad you can only dream about it for now.

.net jerkface said...

Hey everyone I have started some gpl software.

I'm currenly working on a gimp plugin called the binary utility to translate or buttplug for short.

Adobe your days are numbered. My buttplug will only make the gimp more appealing to corporate America. Soon words like gimp and buttplug will be synonymous with image editing.

.net jerkface said...


If you're whining about the need to spend $40 ONE TIME on software your business will use EVERY DAY then you should close up shop, because you're a shitty businessperson.


$40 per head which lasts about 4 years, so it breaks down to about $10 per year. I would only tell a small business to use Linux if I wanted that business to fail. The retraining and support costs that come with Linux easily outpace any costs associated with Windows.

Anonymous said...

Now it's your turn to tell me, why do I have to pay a Windows license for obtaining this same functionality?

Because the cost of a Windows license is, quite frankly, in the noise for most people and just doesn't matter. Most people spend more on lattes and cell phone bills over a few months than they ever spend on the amortized cost of a Windows license. And, given the benefits of compatibility, commercial software availability (iTunes, etc), and driver availability, it's really a no-brainer. Unless you're a luser, which means that you're handicapped by starting out without a brain.

.net jerkface said...


you see for example that GIMP is GNU Image Manipulation Program (for especially challenged hint: it's in the graphics section)... how hard is that to get?


The problem is that the word 'Gimp' in no way denotes anything that has to do with images, editing, or even software.

But ever worse is that in the U.S. the word 'Gimp' has two common meanings:
1. An s&m sex slave like the one in Pulp Fiction
2. A deragatory term for someone missing a limb

Do you think it is wise to push a software alternative that translates to 'sex slave' in the largest market?

The fact that the people behind the gimp are fully aware of the translation issue and yet don't care shows you how much faith you should have in the people behind free software.

Floyd said...

But don't worry, maybe one day you can actually do something useful with your free toy OS. Maybe play a few games, run some quality commercial software, etc. Too bad you can only dream about it for now.

Good point there! It's not about being commercial or not, in case you haven't noticed you can run "some quality commercial software" on Linux too, since not-very-retarded companies produce Linux versions too.

Anonymous said...


in case you haven't noticed you can run "some quality commercial software" on Linux too, since not-very-retarded companies produce Linux versions too.

Hmm, on the contrary, I would say only a retarded company would waste developer resources to cater to 0.83% of the market. What say you?

The Linux version, therefore, is always the last one to come out and in most cases isn't up to the quality as the Windows or Mac version. This is demonstrable in multiple software products.

Anonymous said...

Whats with the whiny OSS bitching...?

No platform is perfect, and lusers : For all the love the product receives on the server side, the desktop effort is a failure. Admit it, move on. Its OK to install windows now.

Floyd said...

Hmm, on the contrary, I would say only a retarded company would waste developer resources to cater to 0.83% of the market. What say you?

So you mean Mathematica, Maple, Matlab, Mozilla, Google are all retarded companies?

Yeah there are a lot of problems, blah blah blah, but clearly it's going forward so fast that one can see that's it's becoming more and more popular, and partially that's because of those kind of companies doing that.

.net jerkface said...

There is about the same amount of commercial desktop software for Linux now as there was in 2000.

julian67 said...

"Chakib Khelil said...

Good to see LH back.

LH, I have an idea for you: When I first tried out Linux many years ago, I was utterly frustrated at the stupidity of the names of the pre-installed programs.

For example, on Windows and OSX if you want a Calculator, you open a program called Calculator. If you're looking for somewhere to write text, on Windows it would be Wordpad or Notepad and on OSX, TextEdit.

At the time (I think I had a RedHat install before it was called Fedora) it was impossible to friggin' find where the bloody calculator was among a crapload of programs with stupid non-descriptive names like Kwank, Gnshit, GeekyReference, MythicalKreature, ScifiReference, LOTRreference, TooStupid, UnIntuitive, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

So I'm looking at all this and think -- "I just want to find a bloody calculator!! Why do these geeks make something SO FUCKING SIMPLE SO FUCKING DIFFICULT???"

(Interesting how Lusers rant on about how "Micro$oft" and PC manufacturers bundles lots of software with their machines. *Cough* Excuse me, but what about the absolute motherload of crapware pre-installed with Linux distros? TONS of the stuff. And what is more, it is not the slightest bit obvious what the hell all these pieces of crap do because they're given the stupidest, most unprofessional and amateurish names possible.

Think of "photoshop" -- it probably has something to do with photos, images, etc.

"PaintShopPro" -- probably something to do with painting, graphics, etc.

And now the Freetard version:

"GIMP" -- probably something to do with perverted sex, right??

Please do a post on Freetard's stupidest, non-intuitive names of their all their inferior windows software rip-offs.
"


Bad news for you....things change ;-) When I first tried Linux I hated the odd names, found it to be obstructive and just annoying. I even made an almost identical post at the time on a forum. But these days if I check my menu I have a text editor called "Text Editor", a file manager called "File Manager", a terminal called "Terminal", a movie player called "Movie Player", a web browser called (I think you might guess this one) "Web Browser". Of course the original names haven't changed (once you open the apps you'll see actually they have the same old names, Gedit, Thunar, Xfce4-Terminal, Totem, Epiphany etc.) but the way they're presented in the menus by lots of distros/DEs has changed. Gnome and Xfce have not been big offenders for quite a while, and KDE 4 for all its teething troubles/drawbacks is finally showing menus that aren't kompletely klogged up with konfusing karakters.

p.s. GIMP = Gnu Image Manipulation Program.

julian67 said...

"Hey, Julian:

http://practical-tech.com/infrastructure/lenovo-exits-pre-installed-linux-desktop-business/

Discuss. And then tell us again, oh wounded Black Knight, why this is a GOOD thing for Linux and why any day now Lenovo will reassert its love for Linux. And then tell us why the author of this article, the Linux-loving Steven Vaughn-Nichols, really is a Linux hater in disguise and a useful idiot for Microsoft.

Spin your way out of this one, freetard.

To say desktop Linux is on life support is overestimating its future in the commercial world. Lusers will look back at the 0.83% market-share days with nostalgia."


This was already commented on in the previous lh blog, but never mind. A few hours after the original story Lenovo denied it. The denial was published on the same site as the original report. Lenovo say they haven't quit pre-installed Linux, they claim they overhauled their website and some links got broken or went mia or something. They also seem to be saying that they're no longer supplying Suse pre-installed on thinkpads except to corporate customers. I can't tell how much of this is shit reporting and how much is Lenovo pr/corporate bs. What's clear is that their new lines of ultra portables will ship with Linux pre-installed.

So perhaps it's true and for a few months they won't be supplying pre-installed Linux. Then again maybe they do. I can't tell from the conflicting reports.

If you believe everything you read it's because you're an idiot. You're an idiot.

.net jerkface said...


p.s. GIMP = Gnu Image Manipulation Program.


Why would you assume that he doesn't know that? Does knowing that it is an acronym make the name any more appealing?

Would you have no problem with telling someone in a wheelchair about gimp? What about a war vet who is missing a limb?

Not only is the name unprofessional and tacky but there are legions of Linux Forum Forces that will actually defend it. NOTHING IS WRONG IN THE LINUX WORLD, EVERYTHING IS FINE.

Thank god I got out of the Linux world when I did. What a pathetic failure the Linux desktop has become.

Anonymous said...

@julian67: "A few hours after the original story Lenovo denied it. The denial was published on the same site as the original report. Lenovo say they haven't quit pre-installed Linux, they claim they overhauled their website and some links got broken or went mia or something."

No, Julian. That's complete BULLSHIT. Lenovo CONFIRMED the story TODAY.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8639308872.html

[Updated Sep. 10] -- A day after it denied ditching pre-installed desktop Linux, PC giant Lenovo has confirmed to Stephen Vaughan-Nichols of Practical Technology that "customers will no longer be able to order Lenovo ThinkPads and ThinkCentres with pre-installed Linux via the lenovo.com website."

No explanation for the decision was given, according to Vaughan-Nichols. Presumably, after years of shouldering the unwanted burden of supporting Microsoft operating systems, the vendor was loathe to increase the burden on its support staff even further. It pulled pre-installed Linux systems from its virtual store after less than a year of availability, Vaughan-Nichols observes, adding, "This is a major disappointment to desktop Linux users. ThinkPads have long been popular with Linux users. Indeed, there's long been an excellent site just for ThinkPad Linux users."

On the upside, "corporate and government customers" will still be able to order Linux pre-installed, and Vaughan-Nichols quotes Gorman as saying that Lenovo plans server and IdeaPad S9 netbook launches in the next two months. The S9 will not see distribution in the U.S., however.

Formerly the senior editor of DesktopLinux and Linux-Watch, Vaughan-Nichols has covered the desktop and enterprise Unix markets since the mid 80s. His informative news post, complete with lots of relevant contextual links, can be found here.

Meanwhile, a more informal op-ed piece, also by Vaughan-Nichols, can be found here. Longtime ThinkPad users ourselves, over here at DesktopLinux we feel your pain, SJVN!"

So, corporate buyers will be able buy Lenovo's S9 notebook. BUT NOT IN THE UNITED STATES. What a fucking JOKE. That's gotta be disappointing to you. You're going to look back sentimentally on 0.83% market share, and wonder where it all went. Answer: Down the toilet. You aren't offering anything better that the public needs. All that you have is lame, crappy ME-TOO software that does its best to copy Windows -- and FAILS miserably. And, if anyone wants Unix, they get OS X. You just can't win. So, slither back to the hole that you crawled out of in shame. Desktop Linux is OVER.

Anonymous said...

I switched my father over to Fedora from XP a couple months ago.

I have a configuration where he can seamlessly access my Vista terminal server to use whichever Windows applications he needs. Wine is installed as well but only used for applications with a Silver rating or better.

It works for him but only because of my cleverness. However, he still thinks the games are crappy.

For example, he plays ProScrabble which is terribly buggy and no longer developed. The computer player often cheats by using words that don't exist in the dictionary. X-P

He also played VDrift but said it looked like N64 graphics and it's broken object collision detection means driving thru walls in pit road is awesome.

julian67 said...

"No, Julian. That's complete BULLSHIT. Lenovo CONFIRMED the story TODAY.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8639308872.html" blahblahblah


First it's a little pointless taking about "TODAY" as we're in different timezones as far as I can tell. It's Sept 11 here but 10 in USA.

Second you might want to consider the possibility that the first time you personally read about an issue may not be the first time it's widely known, and the first article that you personally read may not be the first one published, even on the same site. Astonishing leaps of logic there, possibly all too much for your tiny mind.

You can find earlier reports at desktoplinux.com, a news site, that appeared on the 8th and 9th of this month. If you want the links see linuxhater's previous blog post (replies). One of them is http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8639308872.html which as you will read is not the first in the series on this subject and is dated 9th September. I'll leave it to your immense intellect to ponder the ideas that you may not be the epicentre of all events in the universe, that ego-centric reletavism is not a viable method for understanding much beyond your own navel and that you're a hysterical asshole. Also you could try google.

Anonymous said...

I have a configuration where he can seamlessly access my Vista terminal server to use whichever Windows applications he needs.

Why the FUCK are you running Linux AT ALL? It's pointless. Your father gets NOTHING from it. He still has to go back to Windows to run apps that he needs. WHY BOTHER?

Wine is installed as well but only used for applications with a Silver rating or better.

Every sentence that you write merely confirms that your father should be running Windows, not a cheapo copy.

It works for him but only because of my cleverness.

I would have had more respect for your cleverness if you had interpreted his needs correctly, and simply left him on Windows.

However, he still thinks the games are crappy.

No FUCKING DUH. Very clever of you. You downgraded his desktop experience ... for WHAT?!?

For example, he plays ProScrabble which is terribly buggy and no longer developed.

You're surprised by this? Didn't you bother to see what kind of software he'd want to use BEFORE you transitioned him to Linux? That's Newbie Mistake #1.

The computer player often cheats by using words that don't exist in the dictionary. X-P

Linux. Quality is Job NONE. (TM)

He also played VDrift but said it looked like N64 graphics and it's broken object collision detection means driving thru walls in pit road is awesome.

Huh? That's state-of-the-art Linux t3chn0l0g33, d00d. Welcome back to 1995.

Anonymous said...

You're going to look back sentimentally on 0.83% market share, and wonder where it all went. Answer: Down the toilet. You aren't offering anything better that the public needs. All that you have is lame, crappy ME-TOO software that does its best to copy Windows -- and FAILS miserably.

Its at 0.93% now.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=9&qpcustom=Linux

I generally agree that FOSS applications are shameless copies of successful Windows applications but disagree on quality of the clone--it varies.

A couple examples: I find Gyachi and aMSN superior to Pidgin, Pixel and Krita superior to GIMP (though I typically just use Photoshop CS2 in Wine), OxygenOffice Pro superior to stock OpenOffice.org.

I for one also desire these "me too" applications. Why?

Well since we agree that Linux has next to no presents in the commercial software market, Linux has to rely solely on the FOSS movement to develop comparable apps.

julian67 said...

"p.s. GIMP = Gnu Image Manipulation Program.

Why would you assume that he doesn't know that? Does knowing that it is an acronym make the name any more appealing?

Would you have no problem with telling someone in a wheelchair about gimp? What about a war vet who is missing a limb?
"


I'd have no problem at all. The dissonance you perceive is not something that even occured to me until I saw your post. Perhaps it's a cultural thing but the word gimp doesn't have that strong association with disability in English English (the meaning exists in the dictionary but I've never once heard the word used in this way).

Would you have an issue recommending CrapCleaner on Windows to someone with a cholostomy bag? Or gspot to dry old spinster? Or some one with terrible acne? Or foobar to someone easily offended by bad language? (the expression originally comes from Fucked up Beyond All Recognition). I don't think this is a very serious issue. You should probably stop clutching at straws in case someone recalls MS shipping their wingdings with swastikas ;-)

.net jerkface said...

Julian67 is the official Linux Mascot here at Linux Hater.

He comes in here in his penguin outfit, flails his arms, does the funky penguin dance while we watch and eat popcorn.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if he is Vaughan-Nichols or one of the other lifetime linux shills. At the very least he has a vested interest in Linux and can't stand to see it bashed so openly.

Ah too bad for him that this isn't OSNews or Slashdot where Linux critics are routinely voted down.

Now do that funky penguin again Julian! The kids love it!

Anonymous said...

(the meaning exists in the dictionary but I've never once heard the word used in this way).

That's probably because it's a particularly offensive derogatory term that doesn't get used much, not overtly anyway.

referring to a handicap as gimp is akin to referring to black people as niggers, Arabs as sand-niggers or camel-jockeys, homosexuals as fags or fagots, etc.

It doesn't really matter that the term doesn't see much use (the meaning is generally known), and it doesn't matter that it's an acronym (ex. here in Canada, Conservative Reform Alliance Party still spells out CRAP). It's just offensive to people.

It's a moot point though, It's a sub-par program, even as compared to other options available on Linux (Pixel, Krita).

Anonymous said...

Why the FUCK are you running Linux AT ALL? It's pointless. Your father gets NOTHING from it. He still has to go back to Windows to run apps that he needs. WHY BOTHER?

There are only a few Windows apps that he uses on occasion. The native FOSS solutions satisfy everything else.

The main application he needs is Libra, a movie list organizer. There is nothing comparable to this in Linux. I have begun developing a Linux clone of this application for him in PureBasic.

Every sentence that you write merely confirms that your father should be running Windows, not a cheapo copy.

See above.

I would have had more respect for your cleverness if you had interpreted his needs correctly, and simply left him on Windows.

His Windows XP installation was 4 years old and never been maintained. The registry was loaded with deprecated and malicious keys; the volume was severely fragmented; countless articles of malware were installed and other junk and compressed old files were everywhere.

The only real quick option would have been to format then reinstall Windows.

This was a prime opportunity to demonstrate Linux as he shown some interest earlier.

No FUCKING DUH. Very clever of you. You downgraded his desktop experience ... for WHAT?!?

You're surprised by this? Didn't you bother to see what kind of software he'd want to use BEFORE you transitioned him to Linux? That's Newbie Mistake #1.


I did all the necessary pre-install assessments. I researched his hardware and their compatibility with Linux before committing to an installation

Linux. Quality is Job NONE. (TM)

More like an unmaintained cross-platform application equals fail.

Huh? That's state-of-the-art Linux t3chn0l0g33, d00d. Welcome back to 1995.

There are other, much better FOSS racing games. However the system requirements are much higher too and a Radeon 9700 cannot do much.

.net jerkface said...

Would you have an issue recommending CrapCleaner on Windows to someone with a cholostomy bag? Or gspot to dry old spinster? Or some one with terrible acne?

It is a cultural thing, which is why I noted that the problem exists in the U.S. translation. This is also why the name hasn't changed, since non-American gimp programmers don't want to change it.

As for crapcleaner and gspot those are terrible names for software programs but they at least do not refer to a subset of the population in a derogatory manner. Those programs are also not being pushed against software that has become a defacto corporate standard. When you are going against something that is as entrenched as photoshop you need every advantage that you can get.

Have a look at the most voted definition at the urban dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gimp

This is a good look into how most Americans view the word.

Anonymous said...

- Firefox is an excellent browser, a lot of common non-technical-at-all users already use it, and are happy with it.

Firefox is available on Windows, so it's a non-sequiter,

- If you go to synaptic and install blah1 blah2 and blah3 you get support for all the proprietary formats, including wmv and wma.

You shouldn't really have to install the codecs separately.

Now it's your turn to tell me, why do I have to pay a Windows license for obtaining this same functionality?

First because you most likely already paid for the Windows license via OEM. So why bother replacing what isn't broken?

Did you even read the article linked? (this isn't Slashdot, we actually tend to read the linked content) Everything about the post suggests that the guy's mom already runs Windows (ergo, the lisence is already purchased), naming the OOo shortcut "Word" and setting up OOo to use doc by default suggests that his mom already uses Word, which in turn suggests that she already owns a copy of it.

That being said this whole "why pay for what you can get for free" completely fails when you've already paid for what you're replacing. Why chuck out something you've already payed for? Especially if all you're doing is attempting to replicate the functionality you already have available?

Now, if you're not going the OEM route, the arguments works.

BTW most proprietary formats suck, there are free and better replacements (ogg, h.264, matroska), they just live out of inertia.

BTW, that's the whole bloody point, which format is better is completely irrelevant when the format is scarcely used. OGG has better compression ratios than MP3 (and I encode most of my own stuff in Vorbis, for my own use, MP3 to distribute, because people shouldn't need to install codecs to hear my demo, it's unprofessional), that's great. MP3 is still the de-facto standard. h.265 and matroska may be great formats, but avi, mpeg, mov and wmv see several orders of magnitude more use. ODF might be open, but DOC is the standard, etc. I use FLAC for my master recordings and samples, but WAV is still the standard (and I often have to re-encode my FLACs to WAV to work with them due to lack of support in apps like Cubase or Nuendo).

Which format is better isn't the question here, it doesn't even matter. If I have a collection of MP3s, I want to be able to listen to them, I don;t give two shits if there's a "better" format. (pre-empt: anyone whose even thinking of suggesting re-encoding from one lossy format to another needs to just stfu, seriously, it's for your own good).

as an aside, I notice you didn't address the issue about eventually updating Ubuntu. That was possibly the only wise part about your reply.

julian67 said...

"ulian67 is the official Linux Mascot here at Linux Hater.

He comes in here in his penguin outfit, flails his ....ra ra ra yada yada yada..."


I guess that was easier for you than conceding that you sounded like a pompous twat?

The thing I like least about Linux is the tux mascot and the whole penguin thing. never could work out why an OS would need a mascot.

"(the meaning exists in the dictionary but I've never once heard the word used in this way).

That's probably because it's a particularly offensive derogatory term that doesn't get used much, not overtly anyway.

referring to a handicap as gimp is akin to referring to black people as niggers, Arabs as sand-niggers or camel-jockeys, homosexuals as fags or fagots, etc.

It doesn't really matter that the term doesn't see much use (the meaning is generally known), and it doesn't matter that it's an acronym (ex. here in Canada, Conservative Reform Alliance Party still spells out CRAP). It's just offensive to people."


I've heard all those offensive terms plenty of times, and worse, but I've never heard gimp used except in reference to strange men with zippy masks, sore bottoms and a licensed copy of Vista.

I'm not unaware of words causing offence. I'm white, anglo-saxon etc. My gf is not white and not English and people who haven't met her and assume she's another wasp use some fairly eye popping language like darkies, niggers etc. I let them know and watch them cringe. I've also lived in countries where being white made me the odd one out and it can be very boring and annoying being called the equivalent of whitey/foreigner and worse instead of your name.

But anyone having an emotional crisis due to an acronym is pretty fucking pathetic. You MS fanboys are such gimps and lamers.

.net jerkface said...


The registry was loaded with deprecated and malicious keys; the volume was severely fragmented; countless articles of malware were installed and other junk and compressed old files were everywhere.

The only real quick option would have been to format then reinstall Windows.


You should have just given him a limited account with IE7 or Firefox3. That solves 99% of the problems people have with malware. I can't believe how many so-called computer experts are unware of how useful the limited account is. Vista is even better for this with IE7's protected mode.


This was a prime opportunity to demonstrate Linux as he shown some interest earlier.


To me that is like giving a teenager alcohol because he is interested in it. I would have told him no but I suppose dual-booting might be appropriate here.

Anonymous said...

Lenovo stopped preloading the wretched Linux OS on their desktops. Yeah. They confirmed this to the famous Lintard SJVN himself. Wonder why they did this. Did their customers tell them Linux is not really what they are looking for? ROFLMAO! Could it have anything to do with the litany of essentially unsolvable problems faced by the Linux desktop that cannot or will not be fixed?

The Linux bums used to claim that not pre-loading Linux is the only thing stopping the vast populations of the world from embracing Linux. Not anymore. Dell decided to offer Linux desktops for sale, but there was nothing that the bums could say that could convince it to advertise Linux to its customers. HP offered Linux desktops for sale in Australia, but refuses to do the same in U.S. Lenovo tried to sell Linux desktops, and in less than a year, decided not to try anymore. Walmart kicked Linux machines off its shelves after a couple of months of trying to sell them.

The only consequence of trying to sell these Linux machines seems to be to convince everyone that Linux is a dud, the likes of which they have never seen!

julian67 said...

"Have a look at the most voted definition at the urban dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gimp

This is a good look into how most Americans view the word. "


Thankfully America is not the world and there are a couple of big fucking oceans on each side. I didn't look at urbandictionary but earlier I looked at dictionary.com, another US-centric resource. It's not very exciting. Lots about lacemaking and fabrics and some about walking with a limp/hobbling. Being wheelchair bound and walking with a limp are entirely different. Your original point looks more and more crippled.

.net jerkface said...


But anyone having an emotional crisis due to an acronym is pretty fucking pathetic. You MS fanboys are such gimps and lamers.


It isn't about any of us taking personal offense to it, it is more exemplary of the fine strategic thinking that goes behind software names in the open source world.

How do we get people to use our free software? What should we call it? I know, let's use a word that has a strongly negative connotation in the largest software market. Pure genius. Go Linux.

.net jerkface said...

Sure Julian I am just pulling the gimp name complaint out of my ass.

It's not like there have been slashdot threads on how people have been embarrassed to recommend it to others.
Oh wait.
http://slashdot.org/articles/07/09/15/1040253.shtml

Another dictionary.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gimp

Anonymous said...

I generally agree that FOSS applications are shameless copies of successful Windows appt the lications but disagree on quality of the clone--it varies.

One thing that we can agree on is that there's a LOT of FOSS software. And they are shameless copies of successful Windows applications. But the vast majority of FOSS software is utter CRAP. AbandonWare. NotSupportedWare. BugWare. CrashWare. It's as if every dumb ass who can run a compiler thinks it's a good idea to throw crap out there and, as long as it's "open", that somehow makes it better. Well, it doesn't. FOSS, on the whole, is a waste of time.

julian67 said...

"It isn't about any of us taking personal offense to it, it is more exemplary of the fine strategic thinking that goes behind software names in the open source world.

How do we get people to use our free software? What should we call it? I know, let's use a word that has a strongly negative connotation in the largest software market. Pure genius. Go Linux. "


People who promote/sell/market free software, can do something that isn't possible with proprietary software: they can rebrand it, call it anything they like, have it binary identical in every aspect other than the name. This is already done for various reasons by CentOS (rebranding RHEL), GNU Icecat (rebranded Firefox), Debian Iceweasel, Icedove (rebranded Firefox, Thunderbird). Companies like Novell and Red hat aren't novices, if they ever feel the need to drop a name like Gimp they can do it, and very easily too. I've never seen or heard anyone take issue with this particular name before, but if it was actually a barrier for the commercial vendors they can fix it in an afternoon. They could even fork an entire project if they felt that was worth their time and effort.

Imo that's a decent illustration of one of the differences between free and proprietary software; if you don't like something, if it's causing you some difficulty, you have the right to make the changes you feel are necessary, and the commercial distros certainly have the economic and technical resources to do this. The fact that no-one has ever bothered to do this with the gimp (at least for reasons of naming) suggests to me that it's not an issue outside these pages.

julian67 said...

"It's not like there have been slashdot threads on how people have been embarrassed to recommend it to others.
Oh wait.
http://slashdot.org/articles/07/09/15/1040253.shtml"


There are 549 comments on that slashdot post. I don't know which one caught your eye but my favourite renaming suggestion is Popular Image Manipulation Program, which gives us PIMP. That should appeal to all you MS shills lol

btw the captcha for one of my posts here was fux***. Guess blogger.com is on the shitlist as well....

Anonymous said...

Of course you realize that the fucktards who don't have a problem with the name are the ones who are distributing it, right? The very same guys who pretty much openly tell users to go fuck themselves when they complain?

Anonymous said...

There are only a few Windows apps that he uses on occasion. The native FOSS solutions satisfy everything else.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter whether FOSS apps can meet a subset of his needs. The fact is that he NEEDS Windows. So, moving him to Linux isn't a COMPLETE SOLUTION. But Windows is. Ergo, you moved him to Linux because YOU wanted to, not because it helped him in any way.

The main application he needs is Libra, a movie list organizer. There is nothing comparable to this in Linux. I have begun developing a Linux clone of this application for him in PureBasic.

Ah, that explains it. You use PureBasic; hence, you're a hobbyist, not a pro.

I did all the necessary pre-install assessments. I researched his hardware and their compatibility with Linux before committing to an installation

You didn't mention SOFTWARE. And since you know that he needs Windows, it's not clear why you wanted to move him to Windows. It just doesn't make sense. But, I'll cut you some slack since you're an amateur.

His Windows XP installation was 4 years old and never been maintained. The registry was loaded with deprecated and malicious keys; the volume was severely fragmented; countless articles of malware were installed and other junk and compressed old files were everywhere. The only real quick option would have been to format then reinstall Windows.

Right. Less than an hour and you wouldn't have needed to do a thing to run his existing apps.

This was a prime opportunity to demonstrate Linux as he shown some interest earlier.

The primary thing that you've "demonstrated" is that he still needs Windows, which makes your experiment a failure.

More like an unmaintained cross-platform application equals fail.

Too bad you don't have the selection of games available on Windows XP. Dumb move.

There are other, much better FOSS racing games. However the system requirements are much higher too and a Radeon 9700 cannot do much.

Even the best FOSS games SUCK compared to what's available under Windows. You know it, I know it, let's not pretend otherwise.

Anonymous said...

But anyone having an emotional crisis due to an acronym is pretty fucking pathetic. You MS fanboys are such gimps and lamers.

I'm in agreement here. But it's still a shitty choice of an acronym, devoid of tact, at least far as cripples are concerned.

What's next, Kde Image Konverting Engine?

I've expressed in detail what my gripes with GIMP are before (perhaps it's time to get myself a blogger account?), it has much more serious shortcomings than the tasteless choice of acronym or the UI, which really isn't as bad as people say it is (nor is it as good as others say it is, and virtual desktops don't make it any better) such as lack of CMYK, 16-bit colour depths, support for Pantone spot colours, support for "excessively" large files, etc, etc. But that's chiefly a result of my line of work.

Anonymous said...

You should have just given him a limited account with IE7 or Firefox3. That solves 99% of the problems people have with malware. I can't believe how many so-called computer experts are unware of how useful the limited account is. Vista is even better for this with IE7's protected mode.

Malicious software was only a tiny part of the problem. He used Adaware before but we all know that one spyware scanner doesn't detect it all.

Besides he has been using IE7 in XP for awhile. The malware didn't come from the browser but rather legitimate applications that he installed.

No OS can protect you from malware that happens to be bundled with legitimate software. However, since Linux users typically only download software from a trustworthy sources the chance of obtaining malware is tiny; never mind that market share statistic.

To me that is like giving a teenager alcohol because he is interested in it. I would have told him no but I suppose dual-booting might be appropriate here.

Well it Fedora works so there is no problem.

Cheesy games aren't a showstopper when he only played Solitaire in Windows anyway.

julian67 said...

"Anonymous said...

Of course you realize that the fucktards who don't have a problem with the name are the ones who are distributing it, right? The very same guys who pretty much openly tell users to go fuck themselves when they complain?
"


The biggest distributors are commercial organisations like Novell, Red Hat, Asus, Canonical and these days Microsoft (they resell SLES/SLED). Fucktards and hippies to the last limping zipper-masked man.

btw the captcha contained "bum". blogger.com is insensitive to tramps. Start a campaign.

Anonymous said...

@julian67: "I guess that was easier for you than conceding that you sounded like a pompous twat?

Pot, meet kettle.

The thing I like least about Linux is the tux mascot and the whole penguin thing. never could work out why an OS would need a mascot"

I agree with you there. Kill the penguin. It sucks.

I've heard all those offensive terms plenty of times, and worse, but I've never heard gimp used except in reference to strange men with zippy masks, sore bottoms and a licensed copy of Vista.

Look, dude, don't project your fantasies onto Windows users. Nobody cares about your homosexual fetishes...

I'm not unaware of words causing offence. I'm white, anglo-saxon etc.

Then you can add fucking moron to your list of accolades, if you've never heard the term "gimp" associated with cripples or homo slaves. Never seen Pulp Fiction? WTF, are you like 12?

My gf is not white and not English and people who haven't met her and assume she's another wasp use some fairly eye popping language like darkies, niggers etc.

You refer to your right hand as your "gf"? Odd choice of terminology, but each to his own...

I let them know and watch them cringe.

Good for you. Here's a cookie, psuedo-enlightened white male.

I've also lived in countries where being white made me the odd one out and it can be very boring and annoying being called the equivalent of whitey/foreigner and worse instead of your name.

Thanks for confirming the obvious: People don't like being called names. What a fucking revelation...

But anyone having an emotional crisis due to an acronym is pretty fucking pathetic.

No, what's pathetic is ignoring user sensitivity FOR NO GOOD FUCKING REASON... Par for the course for Linux developers: "Don't like our shit? Fuck you!"

You MS fanboys are such gimps and lamers.

Again, don't include us in your fantasies. Go use your "gf" in private.

Anonymous said...

You should have just given him a limited account with IE7 or Firefox3. That solves 99% of the problems people have with malware. I can't believe how many so-called computer experts are unware of how useful the limited account is. Vista is even better for this with IE7's protected mode.

He's an amateur. I mean, for chrissakes, he's writing code in PureBasic... you can't expect him to actually ADMINISTER his machine competently...

julian67 said...

"No, what's pathetic is ignoring user sensitivity FOR NO GOOD FUCKING REASON... Par for the course for Linux developers: "Don't like our shit? Fuck you!""

I tried really hard to think up a witty reply and here it is:

Don't like our shit? Fuck you!

You're such a dumb cunt. I know it's hard for you boys to conceive of a life beyond MaSturbation and worrying about your zippers getting rusty but get over it. Maybe try another OS, I heard it feels like someone else is doing it ;-)

.net jerkface said...


but if it was actually a barrier for the commercial vendors they can fix it in an afternoon. They could even fork an entire project if they felt that was worth their time and effort.

Or the people at Gimp could just change the name since it is unlikely that current users would care much.
Fork the entire project if you don’t like the name ‘the gimp’. There you go corporate America, that is Linux for you. They won’t even make a simple name change to encourage wider adoption but want you to trust your business with them.

Imo that's a decent illustration of one of the differences between free and proprietary software; if you don't like something, if it's causing you some difficulty, you have the right to make the changes you feel are necessary,

I think a more important difference is that proprietary software companies at some minimal level are financially bound to the needs of users. A commercial company would be financially punished by the market if they gave their software a name that is offensive to a major demographic. An open source group isn’t accountable to the market and is thus able to make inane decisions like keeping the name ‘the gimp’ without any recourse. As much as Capitalism is bashed at Western Universities it does a good job of punishing companies that are out of touch with market realities.

Anonymous said...

Malicious software was only a tiny part of the problem. He used Adaware before but we all know that one spyware scanner doesn't detect it all.

You don't need a spyware scanner. Simply have him use a limited user account, and he can't install anything. Since you installed Linux for him, he's a lemming, anyway. Just install whatever he wants, after evaluating it for spyware. Don't install crap. Problem solved.

Besides he has been using IE7 in XP for awhile. The malware didn't come from the browser but rather legitimate applications that he installed.

See above.

No OS can protect you from malware that happens to be bundled with legitimate software.

Preventing users from installing software is a basic admin function. Exercise it.

However, since Linux users typically only download software from a trustworthy sources the chance of obtaining malware is tiny; never mind that market share statistic.

That's complete BS. Rootkit, anyone?

Well it Fedora works so there is no problem.

Except when he needs Windows apps. FAIL.

Cheesy games aren't a showstopper when he only played Solitaire in Windows anyway.

You just said that he played racing games. Do you know how many of those are available for Windows? More than you can count.

Anonymous said...

@julian67: "You're such a dumb cunt."

Yet another content-free post from Julian. What a surprise...

Anonymous said...

He's an amateur. I mean, for chrissakes, he's writing code in PureBasic... you can't expect him to actually ADMINISTER his machine competently...

Wait... what?

What is wrong with PureBasic? Its a full-featured language and even supports low-level inline ASM, pointers, structures, etc.

Its a really easy yet an powerful language that you obviously know nothing about.

Besides my developing ability is completely unrelated

julian67 said...

"I think a more important difference is that proprietary software companies at some minimal level are financially bound to the needs of users. A commercial company would be financially punished by the market if they gave their software a name that is offensive to a major demographic. An open source group isn’t accountable to the market and is thus able to make inane decisions like keeping the name ‘the gimp’ without any recourse. As much as Capitalism is bashed at Western Universities it does a good job of punishing companies that are out of touch with market realities. "

Again, America is not the world. Appealing to middle America and innately conservative corporate tastes is hardly a recommendation or a virtue. Just because we watch your movies doesn't mean we actually give a fuck about your sensibilities. We don't care what jesus or dubya would choose.

Commercial companies are often less about being "bound to the needs of users" as they are to the perceptions and practices of marketing people. Perhaps abandon the idea that being proprietary and commercial inevitable leads to good decisions or that being non-commercial leads to bad decisions.

You might also try to remember that Red Hat, Novell etc are commercial companies. This idea that free software=non-commercial and that proprietary=commercial is clouding your perceptions.

Like I said, if the acronym was actually that offensive or important it would get changed. It's only an acronym. Personally I'd rebrand it to Clever Useful Neat Tool or A Really Super Experience.

Anonymous said...

New similar blog!

http://delphihaters.blogspot.com/

.net jerkface said...


No OS can protect you from malware that happens to be bundled with legitimate software. However, since Linux users typically only download software from a trustworthy sources the chance of obtaining malware is tiny; never mind that market share statistic.


That is why you buy software from a place like download.com or softpedia where it has been checked for malware. But anyways more of the malware comes from browser pop-up ads like 'you must install this' or 'you need this codec for the porno'. Speaking of porno that is where a ton of malware comes from, but no one ever admits to looking for it. Blame is always placed on legit software that was downloaded or some teenagers that have access to the computer. Not saying this is what happened to your grandpa but ask any IT guy who deals with home users about this.

Anyways the limited user account in xp/vista prevents installation of new software, including the drive-by crap. Someone like your grandpa should not be web surfing with an admin account. A quick and easy solution is to just have him use the guest account when possible. That way there is no confusion over having two different accounts.

Anonymous said...

You don't need a spyware scanner. Simply have him use a limited user account, and he can't install anything. Since you installed Linux for him, he's a lemming, anyway. Just install whatever he wants, after evaluating it for spyware. Don't install crap. Problem solved.

I'm not his computer administrator. I occasionally helped him with issues he had with Windows but he would have never agreed to restrictions associated with a limited user account.

I installed Linux, yes, but that all I did. He knows how to use it and therefore does/installs what he wants.

My mother's laptop is configured with a restricted user account, however. This works for her because all she does is browse the web and never installs anything.

Preventing users from installing software is a basic admin function. Exercise it.

See above.

That's complete BS. Rootkit, anyone?

Only if someone managed to hack into the repository and implant a rootkit into a package.

Last month Red Hat servers were hacked and OpenSSH packages were tampered but the intrusion was noticed immediately and stopped. Now extra security measures are in place to ensure that such an event won't happen again anytime soon.

Compromised systems are nothing new BTW. Just this last April over 500,000 web pages hosted on Microsoft-based Web servers were pwned thru SQL Server injections.

Except when he needs Windows apps. FAIL.

Those work either with Wine or STS. The terminal server isn't one you would normally expect; I have custom patched the CVS version of Rdesktop in order to provide a specialized application remoting mode.

You just said that he played racing games. Do you know how many of those are available for Windows? More than you can count.

No... I said he tried VDrift in Linux when I showed it to him.

You bring up a good point... I can literally install Need For Speed Underground as I have that game. I know for a fact that it plays via Cedega--I'm not sure if it plays via Wine.

Anonymous said...

You mean my father.

My grandfather has never used a computer in his life and probably never will.

.net jerkface said...


Commercial companies are often less about being "bound to the needs of users" as they are to the perceptions and practices of marketing people.


What nonsense, marketing departments for the most part exist to push a product that has already been designed and produced at the direction of executives and product managers.
Even if a company were to take its direction from the marketing department that department would still have to be in touch with the users at a minimal level or else another company whose marketing department is in better touch with users will take a greater share of the sales.

You might also try to remember that Red Hat, Novell etc are commercial companies. This idea that free software=non-commercial and that proprietary=commercial is clouding your perceptions.


The software in question is maintained by volunteers, as are the vast majority of open source projects. The fact that some companies make money off these projects or in some cases fund full-time contributors doesn't negate this basic fact.

Like I said, if the acronym was actually that offensive or important it would get changed.


The name hasn't changed because the people who have the abillity to change it have no incentive to and like you are unaware of how much of a needless negative impact the name actually has.
I've already shown the slashdot thread where American linux users complain about the name, and I could dig up more, but I can see that even this complaint about Linux which would be trivial to fix is still too much for you to handle.

Your Linux Defensive Forum Forces medal today is for:
Dedication to serving the Linux status quo even in the face of unwavering logic.

Anonymous said...

* Install drivers that don't suck

Agreed, although with the native Linux drivers, which are (more or less) officially supported, there are generally no problems.

Only drivers with no or even anti-support of the hardware suppliers might cause trouble.


* Create desktop shortcuts like "Internet" and "Word"

Geez, who wants this? And beyond that, what does a shortcut called "Internet" do?

* Set OO to use the .doc format by default, "rather than explaining the difference between doc and odf"

Definitly a bad idea to set this as default, since this tightens the connection to Microsoft even further than loosing it.


* Set up auto-login

If you live in the old MS-DOS single-user-age, OK, but these days are looong gone.
Those, who really require this, should definitly *not* use a true multiuser system.


* Give her detailed instructions on how to write the Ubuntu forums or give her people to contact when she has questions


Generally, the Ubuntu documentation is so good, that there's hardly any requirement for plain nontechnical users to dig deeper into a forum.

julian67 said...

"What nonsense, marketing departments for the most part exist to push a product that has already been designed and produced at the direction of executives and product managers.
Even if a company were to take its direction from the marketing department that department would still have to be in touch with the users at a minimal level or else another company whose marketing department is in better touch with users will take a greater share of the sales. "


It's pretty sad to see people swallow corporate marketing hook line and sinker. All those utterly crap, pointless, useless products that fill our shops and homes, you think they're not led by marketing? You think they're created to meet a need? You think advertising is done to meet demand not create it? You're blind. Consumerism is driven by marketing not necessity. Some products are bought because we need them or they're useful, most are just dreamed up in tandem with marketing campaigns to create demand that doesn't naturally exists and to relieve us of our money (what's left of it after the government has its 20 or 30 or 40%).

I'm with Bill Hicks on this one, one of the Americans I actually admire:

"By the way, if anyone here is in advertising or marketing, kill yourself. Thank you, thank you. Just a little thought. I'm just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day they'll take root. I don't know. You try. You do what you can. Kill yourselves. Seriously though, if you are, do. No really, there's no rationalisation for what you do, and you are Satan's little helpers, OK? Kill yourselves, seriously. You're the ruiner of all things good. Seriously, no, this is not a joke. "There's gonna be a joke coming..." There's no fucking joke coming, you are Satan's spawn, filling the world with bile and garbage, you are fucked and you are fucking us, kill yourselves, it's the only way to save your fucking soul. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show.

"You know what Bill's doing now, he's going for the righteous indignation dollar, that's a big dollar, a lot of people are feeling that indignation, we've done research, huge market. He's doing a good thing." Godammit, I'm not doing that, you scumbags, quit putting a godamn dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet!"

60 years of TV culture has turned most people's brains into sponges. You just keep soaking it up.

Anonymous said...

This was already commented on in the previous lh blog, but never mind. A few hours after the original story Lenovo denied it. The denial was published on the same site as the original report. Lenovo say they haven't quit pre-installed Linux, they claim they overhauled their website and some links got broken or went mia or something. They also seem to be saying that they're no longer supplying Suse pre-installed on thinkpads except to corporate customers. I can't tell how much of this is shit reporting and how much is Lenovo pr/corporate bs.

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! Julian, I gotta give you credit: you take a very straightforward article by Steven Vaughn-Nichols, noted Linux apologist (former editor of desktoplinux.com and linux-watch.com and a former columnist for Unix Review), and try to claim it says something it doesn't!!! I'm guessing you don't realize how much it must have pained Vaughn-Nichols to write that Lenovo was discontinuing Linux on the ThinkPad, and why he went to such work to confirm it: he obviously didn't want it to happen! And he confirmed it with direct quotes from the Lenovo PR staff.

There was no ambiguity in his story, no reason to doubt that a noted Linux apologist like Vaughn-Nichols would be making shit up about an OS he loves and has tied his career to.

Ah, Julian, thank you. You fulfilled my prophecy; your freetard ability to deny reality in the face of overwhelming evidence is truly astounding. You're the Baghdad Bob of the Linux world -- and that's quite an accomplishment!!!

Dance your little penguin dance for us again, Julian!

Anonymous said...

It's just a flesh wound!

julian67 said...

"Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! Julian, I gotta give you credit: you take a very straightforward article by Steven Vaughn-Nichols, noted Linux apologist (former editor of desktoplinux.com and linux-watch.com and a former columnist for Unix Review), and try to claim it says something it doesn't!!! I'm guessing you don't realize how much it must have pained Vaughn-Nichols to write that Lenovo was discontinuing Linux on the ThinkPad, and why he went to such work to confirm it: he obviously didn't want it to happen! And he confirmed it with direct quotes from the Lenovo PR staff.

There was no ambiguity in his story, no reason to doubt that a noted Linux apologist like Vaughn-Nichols would be making shit up about an OS he loves and has tied his career to.

Ah, Julian, thank you. You fulfilled my prophecy; your freetard ability to deny reality in the face of overwhelming evidence is truly astounding. You're the Baghdad Bob of the Linux world -- and that's quite an accomplishment!!!

Dance your little penguin dance for us again, Julian!"


I know you're struggling to get this but the SJVN article wasn't the only or even the first article on this. It isn't inviolate holy writ, it's just an article by a journalist at the arse end of the news season when any old rubbish will do because it's better than an empty page.

It's not even new news, it's all been said and done before. If you look back to 2006: http://www.crn.com/software/188701277

"Computer maker Lenovo will not install or support the Linux operating system on any of its PCs, including ThinkPads and a series of new notebooks, the company said this week.

The Raleigh, N.C.-based company is clearly positioning itself as an exclusive partner of Microsoft (NSDQ:MSFT), several weeks after the companies announced they were "reaffirming" global market development and cooperation agreements.

"We will not have models available for Linux, and we do not have custom order, either," said Frank Kardonski, Lenovo's worldwide product manager for Lenovo 3000 offerings. "What you see is what you get. And at this point, it's Windows....blah blah blah "

And a few months later Lenovo announced Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop for Thinkpads. Gosh! And of course this has nothing to do with applying pressure to Novell to squeeze a better deal has it? And forms no part of other negotiations with software vendors competing to get their product pre-installed, or even pre-installed exclusively (hello Bill)? No of course not, corporate PR people would never actually negotiate hard would they?

And if we come back to 2008:

"Ray Gorman, executive director of Lenovo external communications, tried to put the best spin he could on the decision. “Our commitment to Linux has not changed. What’s changed is that customers will no longer be able to order Lenovo ThinkPads and ThinkCentres with pre-installed Linux via the lenovo.com website. We are still certifying Linux pre-loads, but most of those customers typically order either through their Lenovo Sales team or Lenovo Business Partner.”

It's all looking a little familiar no? But don't worry, you keep believeing every piece of August and September Linux news you read, it'll be fun. This is out of season for Linux news, most distros release in spring and then some in autumn and some in winter. So what do journos need in the lean months? Some exciting sounding headlines (supporting content not required to be verified) and some fresh gullible dimwits with tiny attention spans, short memories and a willingness to believe and to lap it all up.

That would be you.

Platypus said...

Sigh. OK, two points following up on my previous comment, for the hard-of-thinking.

(1) Yes, there are non-intuitive program names in Windows toobut that in no way whatsoever invalidates my complaint about Linux names. That's a fallacy (red herring); two things can be bad at the same time. In Windows, many of the most common programs at least refer somewhat to what they do - Internet Explorer for web browsing, Word for word processing, Exchange for email. Most of the FTP programs I saw back when I used Windows had "FTP" in the name, most of the archive programs had "zip" in the name, most of the text editors had "edit" in the name, etc. I still contend that the bad-naming examples to be found in the Linux world are more numerous and more egregious.

(2) It's also true that menus such as those in Suse or (my new favorite distro) Pardus will show you a description as well as a name. That's a symptom, not an excuse. They do it because they have to, because the naming is so bad that naive users will have trouble otherwise. I personally know what all of the programs I named do, and even where their names came from, but I learned long ago that it's both arrogant and counterproductive to assume that one's own experience applies to everyone. My mother wouldn't know, your mother wouldn't know, and that's what matters.

Bad names are a barrier to acceptance, and anybody who predicts or desires broader acceptance for Linux should be concerned about the phenomenon. Naming is of course a developer's prerogative, but re-naming as a favor to users should be a distributor's and should be more common. It's supposed to be about choice, right? Or is it only about the elite's choices?

Anonymous said...

http://www.crn.com/software/188701277

"Computer maker Lenovo will not install or support the Linux operating system on any of its PCs, including ThinkPads and a series of new notebooks, the company said this week.

The Raleigh, N.C.-based company is clearly positioning itself as an exclusive partner of Microsoft (NSDQ:MSFT),


More brilliance! Bravo! Instead of focusing on what a Chinese-based company is doing today, you go back years and focus on what THE PREVIOUS AMERICAN OWNERS did! Why, penguin boy, that's too precious for words!

Since that 2006 article, Lenovo was sold to the Chinese, acquired all-new leadership, and reaffirmed its commitment to desktop Linux.

And the news now -- according to noted Linux apologist Steven Vaughn-Nichols, former editor of desktoplinux.com -- is that Lenovo is DROPPING that commitment. Geez, you'd this Linux apologist Steven Vaughn-Nichols might know a LITTLE more about it than you? Hell, he even got the Lenovo PR head to CONFIRM the change.

So, to sum up: Penguinboy Julian knows far more about Lenovo's commitment to Linux than Linux apologist Steven Vaughn-Nichols and the head of PR for Lenovo!

Brilliant! I want to know how you keep that reality-distortion field going in the face of those dogged things the rest of us call facts!

Dance, penguinboy, dance!

julian67 said...

I like a lot of the names.

Torrent client - Deluge

Messenger - Pidgin

Tracker - Index/search

Asunder - ripper

and so on.

But what pisses me off is Yahoo! What has that to do with search? And google? wtf? And what about an add/remove programs tool that only removes? How does the name Outlook Express tell someone unfamiliar with Windows, or even Outlook, that it's a mail client? Why is there a phone brand called Orange? What exactly is a pepsi? Is gatorade made of real alligators?

OK I'm being slightly facetious but you get the point? Sometimes people just have to remember a few words that are not the same words as they learned a while ago. It's no big deal unless you want it to be a big deal for you and people you complain to.

And the thing about the generic names in menus is that they also serve another purpose. If you (or your sysadmins) reconfigure your default applications then the generic titles automatically point to the new defaults. This might vary according to DE and Distro but is certainly the case in Debian. It's probably more useful in a school/business/corporate environment than for a home user, but a nice touch nonetheless.

Anonymous said...

OK I'm being slightly facetious but you get the point?

No. You'd flunk out of a introductory logic course: just because some other names suck doesn't mean Linux names like GIMP suck less.

Grade: F

Anonymous said...

Or is it only about the elite's choices?

Ca-ching. Remember, Linux was the full-employment act for marginally talented developers and "Linux advocates" to join the corporate bandwagon. Actual usability was never a concern: Linux was just a good career move for these clowns.

julian67 said...

"Since that 2006 article, Lenovo was sold to the Chinese, acquired all-new leadership, and reaffirmed its commitment to desktop Linux. "

Wrong again monkey boy. Lenovo was never sold to the Chinese, you fucking idiot, it was always Chinese. You obviously don't know a single fact about any of this??? Lenovo manufactured Thinkpad products for IBM. It bought the Thinkpad brand from IBM in 2005. If you can't count as well as can't read let me help you out. 2005 is the year before 2006, not the year after it. There are sheep with greater mental acuity than you possess, you're probably cousins or nephews of some of them.

If you want to accept SJVN as some kind of guru good luck, you'll need it.

Anyone who can read (see words, recognise letters and combinations thereof, deduce meaning....ask your mommy to help) can see that Lenovo have said exactly the same things before, and then turned around and done the exact opposite. 2006 is hardly back in the last ice age, it's just a little while.

Person A says X and then does Y (the precise opposite) in 2006

In 2008 the same person A again says the same X and you accept it as holy writ.

Can you spot the flaw in your firm faith that they will do exactly as stated?

Probably not, you're an idiot.

It might even be true. Judging by the recent past it might also be a complete crock of shit. You don't know and nor do I.

If you believe every press release and every journalist and every rumour then you're simply stupid and gullible.

If you're really determined to be credulous and uncritical stick with the bible or your harry potter collection. Other idiots will respect you for it.

Floyd said...

Man so much hate is going on... you gotta post more often otherwise to much hate is accumulated.

The original point was that it's not intuitive to find some program because of it's name, which by itself is bullshit, since one does not go saying "I need a calculator" and calculator pops up. All you need to do is a single click on a small icon on the bottom, which will bring you the menu, and in Linux, if the name is KWhatever, it will say in brackets what's that application for, and for especially retarded, it's also in the appropriate section.

Stop bullshitting "this name sucks, but this one sucks even more". Windows has the same amount of shitty names as Linux does.

julian67 said...

"No. You'd flunk out of a introductory logic course: just because some other names suck doesn't mean Linux names like GIMP suck less."

It isn't the point. It doesn't matter very much what the name of the binary is. If someone can sit down at a screen, having never used the OS before and find "web browser" "text editor" "image manipulation program", "brasero disc burning" then where is the barrier? How does this compare badly to sitting down and figuring out opera, notepad , acdeesee, nero????

It all comes down to you personally not liking a name, there's no substance to your complaint. Get over it. You're just whining like a child.

Anonymous said...

Agreed, although with the native Linux drivers, which are (more or less) officially supported, there are generally no problems.

By "native" I'm thinking you mean the in-kernel drivers? The proprietary drivers are native just as well.

Geez, who wants this? And beyond that, what does a shortcut called "Internet" do?

A lot of people who are less computer literate don't really makre a distinction between the internet and the web. They refer to browsers as 'the internet'. It's probably rooted in MS naming their browser internet explorer (as in what you use to explore the internet). It's just semantics, and if that works for someone, really, who gives a shit?


Definitly a bad idea to set this as default, since this tightens the connection to Microsoft even further than loosing it.

If the guy's mum works with primarily .doc files, then it makes sense to use that format by default, rather than one that people she'd send the document to can't open (because the receivers are likely using word). Maybe you have no issue explaining the Doc vs ODF debate to your mother, or spewing endless rhetoric about openness and vendor lock-in to your parents. Most people are wise to not bother, because m,ost people don't really care, as long as it works. .doc is the de-facto standard, one way or the other.


If you live in the old MS-DOS single-user-age, OK, but these days are looong gone.
Those, who really require this, should definitly *not* use a true multiuser system.


That's a really stupid argument. All modern operating Systems are multi-user systems. Auto-login isn't a requirement, it's just a matter of convenience when you're the only user on the machine. Are you suggesting that people who're the only user on their machine should be using Dos?


Generally, the Ubuntu documentation is so good, that there's hardly any requirement for plain nontechnical users to dig deeper into a forum.

Documentation has always been one of Linux's weakest points (Gentoo and LFS being exceptions, rather than the rule). It's pretty asinine to assume that people will never need to look anything up, anyone whose used Linux for any period of time will tell you straight up, (like any OS) things will invariably go wrong at one point or another, and you're going to have to do the google/forum/support/manpage/mailing list dance.

Anonymous said...

Lenovo was never sold to the Chinese, you fucking idiot, it was always Chinese.

IBM's PC division was a Chinese company?

Your arguments are tending toward the bizarre. No wonder everyone here makes fun of you, mate.

Anonymous said...

It might even be true. Judging by the recent past it might also be a complete crock of shit. You don't know and nor do I.

Look, you stupid bastard, you've got no arms left!

Anonymous said...

Doesn't matter, you're essentially naming your image editing program 'crippled' which ironically adequately describes the program. Please, everyone, switch to the GIMP (Crippled) Image Editor. They might as well name it 'Broken Piece of Shit' and be done with it.

Anonymous said...

IBM licensed the use of the name, dumbass.

julian67 said...

"Lenovo was never sold to the Chinese, you fucking idiot, it was always Chinese.

IBM's PC division was a Chinese company?

Your arguments are tending toward the bizarre. No wonder everyone here makes fun of you, mate. "


Look dipshit, it isn't complicated (except for you)

IBM paid Lenovo to manufacture for them.

IBM didn't ever own Lenovo.

Lenovo bought the Thinkpad brand from IBM.

I left some spaces in there for you to stop and have a think about each word.

Do you also think that Apple owns the factories that make ipods? That Sony owns the factories that make Sony PC? That when you drink a Starbucks coffee from a Starbucks cup the coffee comes from plantations owned by Starbucks and the branded mug is made in the Starbucks mug factory?

Your perspective is that of a small child.

Anonymous said...

IBM didn't ever own Lenovo.

More flailing at the strawman, mate. No one here said they did.

And all the flailing around doesn't obscure the central fact that you're so wrong about Lenovo dumping Linux. Hate to say it but you lost that argument hours ago, mate.

Right want to consider the possibility there's more than one anonymous reader heckling you,

The Ghost of Tom Watson said...

"IBM licensed the use of the name, dumbass."

IBM actually sold the name thinkPad, the rights to IBM PCs, and all its PC manufacturing plants.

Dumbass.

Is this all the better the Freetards can do? Argue about the status of Lenovo and ignoring the fact one of the leading PC companies is dumping Linux support?

julian67 said...

"BM didn't ever own Lenovo.

More flailing at the strawman, mate. No one here said they did.

And all the flailing around doesn't obscure the central fact that you're so wrong about Lenovo dumping Linux. Hate to say it but you lost that argument hours ago, mate.

Right want to consider the possibility there's more than one anonymous reader heckling you,
"


First: I'm not your mate.

You're an arsehole, I have one of those already and don't need another.

Second:"No one here said they did."

err...."IBM's PC division was a Chinese company?

Your arguments are tending toward the bizarre. No wonder everyone here makes fun of you, mate."


You can't even read.


""IBM licensed the use of the name, dumbass."

IBM actually sold the name thinkPad, the rights to IBM PCs, and all its PC manufacturing plants.

Dumbass."


Actually you're the dumbass. IBM sold the Thinkpad brand outright and at the same licensed the use of the name IBM to be associated with it for a limited period (now over I believe). I remember it because I lived in Asia at the time and Lenovo is a lot more visible and newsworthy in the far east than in Europe or USA, stuff like this gets reported in mainstream press tech pages like HP's business news does in the US. And I was shopping for a new laptop and bought a Lenovo...no OS pre-installed, very cheap :-)

harry said...

I remember it because I lived in Asia at the time and Lenovo is a lot more visible and newsworthy in the far east than in Europe or USA, stuff like this gets reported in mainstream press tech pages like HP's business news does in the US.

So, dancing penguin, let's review....

First, you tell us not to trust noted Linux apologist Steven Vaughn-Nichols and the head of PR of Lenovo about Lenovo discontinuing Linux on the desktop.

But we're supposed to believe another Linux apologist -- you -- who hides behind a pseudonym and take for your word for something because you were living in Asia at the time?

BRILLIANT! If there's one freetards do well it's argue their points in a consistent and logical mannher.

Hey, fucknut, I was living in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA at the time, and I remember the sale of IBM's PC manufacturing plants (including the large one in the Research Triangle) to Lenovo as well! You know, like this one, freetard:

http://www.pc.ibm.com/europe/lenovo/about/locations.html?uk&cc=uk

I gotta say, your little dance is brilliant and allows you to avoid addressing the main issue (which, apparently, only YOU are disputing): that Lenovo is dropping support for the Linux desktop.

Brilliant dance, penguin!

Anonymous said...

I like this post. You find something wrong with Linux, and you offer a suggestion, instead of being retarded trolls like many of your readers. Kudos LH!

Anonymous said...

I gotta say, your little dance is brilliant and allows you to avoid addressing the main issue (which, apparently, only YOU are disputing): that Lenovo is dropping support for the Linux desktop.

Well, remember it's the say guy who claimed all major OEMs were preinstalling Linux. Reality is not his thing :P

julian67 said...

" I was living in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA at the time, and I remember the sale of IBM's PC manufacturing plants (including the large one in the Research Triangle) to Lenovo as well! You know, like this one, freetard:

http://www.pc.ibm.com/europe/lenovo/about/locations.html?uk&cc=uk"


You can't even read.

That address in Research Triangle is not a manufacturing plant. The clue is in the title above it called "Executive Headquarters"

Another clue: the section cunningly entitled

"Manufacturing Centers"

contains six addresses. Five are in China, one is in southern India.

Another mysterious and puzzling clue (OK if you can read it isn't either) is in the section entitled

"Company History"

"With an initial capital outlay of only RMB200,000 (US$25,000) Lenovo’s founding chairman Liu Chuanzhi, together with 10 like-minded colleagues, launches the New Technology Developer Inc. (the predecessor of the Legend Group) funded by the Chinese Academy of Sciences."

Lenovo is a Chinese company. They manufactured IBM Thinkpads for IBM. Then they bought the Thinkpad brand and continue to manufacture Thinkpads, now branded Lenovo.

Which part of that is beyond your comprehension?

All of it apparently. You are remarkably stupid.

My favourite part of your inane rant:

"But we're supposed to believe another Linux apologist -- you -- who hides behind a pseudonym and take for your word for something because you were living in Asia at the time?"

I just mentioned it as an aside, I don't ask anyone to take my word for anything. You could, if you one day develop your intellectual abilities beyond those of a barking dog, actually check it for yourself. But judging by your post that's hardly likely to be possible for you. Perhaps ask one of the people who looks after you to help.

Hiding behind a pseudonym? Well Julian is my name and julian67 is the name I use at various places online. I guess you're the one and only harry on the planet right? And Linux Hater is Linux Hater's real actual name?

You dumb prick lol

I don't care one way or the other if Lenovo ship Linux pre-installed, only offer certification, don't offer it at all, or roll it out across all their products.

The point is that they have said before they were never going to offer Linux, just a few months before concluding a deal with Novell to ship SLED.

You and the other mentally subnormal and emotionally disturbed boys here have a rather touching faith in the canonical truth of journalism and corporate PR.

Good luck with that monkey boy.

p.s. I could tell you're an American without you having to say so. Something to do with being loud, stupid, aggressive, irrational and fantastically ignorant and wrong all at the same time, combined with shooting yourself in the foot by quoting links which flatly contradict your own assertions. Are you a Bush Middle East policy advisor when you're not jerking off? Are you related to Dick Cheney? Or just some unknown Dick somewhere?

Anonymous said...

//I laugh at people who get pissed off because they have to pay to use an operating system.//

I laugh at people who get pissed off because they have to configure the hell out of their free operating system just to get it to work. And then the next automatic kernel update breaks everything.

Anonymous said...

//I'll leave it to your immense intellect to ponder the ideas that you may not be the epicentre of all events in the universe, that ego-centric reletavism is not a viable method for understanding much beyond your own navel and that you're a hysterical asshole. Also you could try google.//

Nice sour grapes, after you (once again) get your ass handed to you.

Horatio_Hellpop said...

@julian67
//If you can't count as well as can't read let me help you out. 2005 is the year before 2006, not the year after it. There are sheep with greater mental acuity than you possess, you're probably cousins or nephews of some of them.//

Ok, I disagree with most of what you say on this blog (being a Windoze user myself) ... but that was a great retort. Kudos.

Horatio_Hellpop said...

//p.s. I could tell you're an American without you having to say so. Something to do with being loud, stupid, aggressive, irrational and fantastically ignorant and wrong all at the same time//

Hey now, don't lump all of us into that one basket. :-)

julian67 said...

"/p.s. I could tell you're an American without you having to say so. Something to do with being loud, stupid, aggressive, irrational and fantastically ignorant and wrong all at the same time//

Hey now, don't lump all of us into that one basket. :-)
"


You're right, I wouldn't and I don't. But your homegrown idiots have their own special unmistakable signature....usually an x written in their own shit :-)

Anonymous said...

@Julian67

p.s. I could tell you're an American without you having to say so. Something to do with being loud, stupid, aggressive, irrational and fantastically ignorant and wrong all at the same time, combined with shooting yourself in the foot by quoting links which flatly contradict your own assertions. Are you a Bush Middle East policy advisor when you're not jerking off? Are you related to Dick Cheney? Or just some unknown Dick somewhere?


You're not very bright are you? The nonsensical prejudging of the inhabitants of the middle of the North American land mass shows you are of limited intellectual capacity.

ps. Are you related to Tony Blair? You do realize that your country is in Afghanistan and was also involved in Iraq. Are you in charge of UK foreign policy due to you living there? Reductio ad absurdum "mate."

Anonymous said...

Look at this Ubuntu group post by a Linux Zealot installing Ubuntu on someone's computer, and admitting that he messed up her Vista install (dual-boot):

"In my lunchbreak I installed Ubuntu next to Vista on my collegue’s notebook. I have to sit on the train with her half an hour before and after so it had to go right. The partition bit is always a bit dodgy, and windows had lots of trouble to start again after that.

But we have a new Ubuntera!"


I like how he tries to mitigate things by saying that "the partition bit is always a bit dodgy."

Why do these people insist on forcing Linux onto others, even risking messing up their Windows partition, which is obviously needed for serious work, play, or study?

Anonymous said...

Look at this Ubuntu group post by a Linux Zealot installing Ubuntu

Heh. Reminds me of
this

Anonymous said...

Hey kids, while you are still trying to figure out how to install and run Linux, Linux has already figured out how to run Large Hadron Collider.

julian67 said...

Linux is powerful enough to create a black hole and destroy the universe...yaay!!!...oh...wait....

Meanwhile back above ground:

London Stock Exchange in denial over system outage

http://www.computerworlduk.com/management/it-business/it-organisation/news/index.cfm?newsid=10947

The LSE went down for 7 hours, in effect a whole day's trading. What is it built on? MS .Net!

Linux can create black holes and destroy universes but MS can't run a trading floor without pooping.

NYSE runs Red Hat. I guess NYSE is housed in a basement? Belonging to someone's Mom? And the floor is littered not with ticker tape but pizza boxes and pringles cans? No?

Anonymous said...

@Julian67

p.s. I could tell you're an American without you having to say so. Something to do with being loud, stupid, aggressive, irrational and fantastically ignorant and wrong all at the same time, combined with shooting yourself in the foot by quoting links which flatly contradict your own assertions. Are you a Bush Middle East policy advisor when you're not jerking off? Are you related to Dick Cheney? Or just some unknown Dick somewhere?



You're not very bright are you? The nonsensical prejudging of the inhabitants of the middle of the North American land mass shows you are of limited intellectual capacity.

ps. Are you related to Tony Blair? You do realize that your country is in Afghanistan and was also involved in Iraq. Are you in charge of UK foreign policy due to you living there? Reductio ad absurdum "mate."

Anonymous said...

Wait... what? What is wrong with PureBasic? Its a full-featured language and even supports low-level inline ASM, pointers, structures, etc.

No offense, but PureBasic -- like most Basic implementations -- is an anachronistic language. It's procedural, it doesn't support object-oriented programming, doesn't support exception-handling, etc. It's a tool best wielded by amateurs, in my opinion, not pros.

ghost of tom watson said...

That address in Research Triangle is not a manufacturing plant.

Not any more, after the Chinese closed down the manufacturing part of it, lintard, and moving all IBM and Thinkpad branded manufacturing to China. (Remember IBM PCs, pinhead? Where do you think they were made? Research Triangle and Boca Raton.)

Your google skills are sorely lacking, lintard. You declared victory way too prematurely.

Anonymous said...

I'm not his computer administrator. I occasionally helped him with issues he had with Windows ...

BS. You set up his box. In addition, you made HIS box dependent on YOUR box for TS sessions. You're his admin when things go wrong -- and, if you're honest, you'll admit that things DO go wrong. If you let him administer his own box, it means that you're giving him permission to install software -- and that is no better than running as admin under Windows.

but he would have never agreed to restrictions associated with a limited user account.

So, WTF ... do you let him run as root under Linux? Or have him run sudo? No, didn't think so. So, you're full of shit about the limited account BS.

I installed Linux, yes, but that all I did. He knows how to use it and therefore does/installs what he wants.

With a limited user account? How? You're trusting a guy who doesn't know what the fuck he's doing to install crap on his machine? Nice. When he gets rooted, you'll wonder why you didn't setup a limited account.

My mother's laptop is configured with a restricted user account, however. This works for her because all she does is browse the web and never installs anything.

How often would you expect ANYONE to install crap on their machine? Is it a daily thing in your household?

Only if someone managed to hack into the repository and implant a rootkit into a package.

WTF makes you think that someone can't create their own package and put it up on a website for your father to download? Is that really so fucking difficult to accomplish? No, it isn't. And you're just as vulnerable as downloading and running random crap off the Web under Windows. Ergo, you're not gaining crap by running Linux.

Last month Red Hat servers were hacked and OpenSSH packages were tampered but the intrusion was noticed immediately and stopped. Now extra security measures are in place to ensure that such an event won't happen again anytime soon.

That makes me SOOOOOOOOOO much more confident. Fuck that. Lusers always overestimate their own security.

Compromised systems are nothing new BTW. Just this last April over 500,000 web pages hosted on Microsoft-based Web servers were pwned thru SQL Server injections.


You do realize that SQL injection attacks are primarily a Web APPLICATION problem, right? It has nothing to do with IIS or Microsoft server technology.

Those work either with Wine or STS. The terminal server isn't one you would normally expect; I have custom patched the CVS version of Rdesktop in order to provide a specialized application remoting mode.

Again, if your father needs Windows, he should be running Windows. I'm not sure why you're fighting it so much. It's pointless.

Anonymous said...

I'm not his computer administrator. I occasionally helped him with issues he had with Windows ...

BS. You set up his box. In addition, you made HIS box dependent on YOUR box for TS sessions. You're his admin when things go wrong -- and, if you're honest, you'll admit that things DO go wrong. If you let him administer his own box, it means that you're giving him permission to install software -- and that is no better than running as admin under Windows.

but he would have never agreed to restrictions associated with a limited user account.

So, WTF ... do you let him run as root under Linux? Or have him run sudo? No, didn't think so. So, you're full of shit about the limited account BS.

I installed Linux, yes, but that all I did. He knows how to use it and therefore does/installs what he wants.

With a limited user account? How? You're trusting a guy who doesn't know what the fuck he's doing to install crap on his machine? Nice. When he gets rooted, you'll wonder why you didn't setup a limited account.

My mother's laptop is configured with a restricted user account, however. This works for her because all she does is browse the web and never installs anything.

How often would you expect ANYONE to install crap on their machine? Is it a daily thing in your household?

Only if someone managed to hack into the repository and implant a rootkit into a package.

WTF makes you think that someone can't create their own package and put it up on a website for your father to download? Is that really so fucking difficult to accomplish? No, it isn't. And you're just as vulnerable as downloading and running random crap off the Web under Windows. Ergo, you're not gaining crap by running Linux.

Last month Red Hat servers were hacked and OpenSSH packages were tampered but the intrusion was noticed immediately and stopped. Now extra security measures are in place to ensure that such an event won't happen again anytime soon.

That makes me SOOOOOOOOOO much more confident. Fuck that. Lusers always overestimate their own security.

Compromised systems are nothing new BTW. Just this last April over 500,000 web pages hosted on Microsoft-based Web servers were pwned thru SQL Server injections.


You do realize that SQL injection attacks are primarily a Web APPLICATION problem, right? It has nothing to do with IIS or Microsoft server technology.

Those work either with Wine or STS. The terminal server isn't one you would normally expect; I have custom patched the CVS version of Rdesktop in order to provide a specialized application remoting mode.

Again, if your father needs Windows, he should be running Windows. I'm not sure why you're fighting it so much. It's pointless.

Anonymous said...

Thankfully America is not the world and there are a couple of big fucking oceans on each side.

Typical Eurotrash lack of self-esteem masquerading as condescension.

I didn't look at urbandictionary but earlier I looked at dictionary.com, another US-centric resource. It's not very exciting. Lots about lacemaking and fabrics and some about walking with a limp/hobbling. Being wheelchair bound and walking with a limp are entirely different.

Listen, douchebag. Anyone who has seen Pulp Fiction knows WTF a gimp is. If you haven't seen it, then you're a fucking loser...

Your original point looks more and more crippled.

Stop projecting your mental handicap. It's sad.

Anonymous said...

@julian67: It's all looking a little familiar no? But don't worry, you keep believeing every piece of August and September Linux news you read, it'll be fun. This is out of season for Linux news, most distros release in spring and then some in autumn and some in winter. So what do journos need in the lean months? Some exciting sounding headlines (supporting content not required to be verified) and some fresh gullible dimwits with tiny attention spans, short memories and a willingness to believe and to lap it all up.

Ah, I see. So, Lenovo is "lying" about not supporting Linux desktops. Wow. It's pretty incredible what kind of self-delusion you're willing to entertain in order to maintain your faith in Linux desktop use. Truly incredible. You might want to apply for a role in the new Iraqi government. They can use a replacement for Baghdad Bob. You're just the guy.

julian67 said...

"
That address in Research Triangle is not a manufacturing plant.

Not any more, after the Chinese closed down the manufacturing part of it, lintard, and moving all IBM and Thinkpad branded manufacturing to China. (Remember IBM PCs, pinhead? Where do you think they were made? Research Triangle and Boca Raton.)

Your google skills are sorely lacking, lintard. You declared victory way too prematurely. "


Oh, I didn't realise it's my fault you can't fucking read the very page you link, and that it doesn't contain the information you believed it contained.

Do you think Lenovo might have moved all manufacturing to China because they're Chinese? And that in China they can build quality PCs at low cost as opposed to the USA where they build shit for high cost. Darn those Chinese.

Odd that isn't it?

China is a big country not near the USA.

julian67 said...

"Listen, douchebag. Anyone who has seen Pulp Fiction knows WTF a gimp is. If you haven't seen it, then you're a fucking loser..."

The point the earlier poster was making was about the word gimp referring to physical disability. I mentioned the zipper masks and yes I've seen Pulp Fiction so obviously I'm not a loser. Unlike the billions of people around the world in places like India and China who have never even heard of Pulp Fiction and are apparently losers because of this. And they don't even know it ;-)

You're an asshole. Zip your mask and you'll not sound so dumb.

India and China are big countries not in or near the USA.

julian67 said...

Lenovo Launching Linux Netbooks

http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/09/11/lenovo-launching-linux-netbooks/

"In an email to The VAR Guy, Lenovo Senior VP J. Scott Di Valerio describes the PC giant’s evolving Linux strategy, including plans for so-called NetBooks that will launch in October. Here’s a look at what Di Valerio had to say.

Lenovo has faced some criticism from Linux folks in recent days, amid reports that the company was abandoning desktop Linux preloads. In an email to The VAR Guy, Di Valerio clarified Lenovo’s strategy:

Our commitment to Linux has not changed. What’s changed is that customers will no longer be able to order Lenovo ThinkPads and ThinkCentres with pre-installed Linux via the lenovo.com website. We are still certifying Linux pre-loads on ThinkPads and ThinkCentres, but most of those customers typically order either through their Lenovo Sales team or Lenovo Business Partner.

Now, for the news hook. Di Valerio also wrote:

In addition, we will be delivering new Linux offerings on our new Lenovo servers, and Ideapad Netbook education models, scheduled for release in September and October respectively.

The VAR Guy last month was the first blogger to tell readers about the Lenovo servers. And he’s also hinted that Netbooks from Lenovo were on the way. Generally speaking, Netbooks are low-cost sub-notebooks that cost roughly $275 to $400. Dell unveiled its Mini 9 Netbook earlier this month.

Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu Linux, predicted that Netbooks running Ubuntu would be available in all major U.S. computer retail stores in late 2008 or 2009."

Did I hear a pin drop? Or was it a pin head? Or maybe a gimp quietly closing up his zipper?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Anonymous said...

@julian

I love this blurb on Lenovo's site:

Lenovo recommends Windows Vista® Business for business computing.

Lenovo recommends Windows Vista® Home Premium for personal computing.


I guess they can't muster a recommendation for Linux. Must suck something AWFUL...

Anonymous said...

@julian67: Did I hear a pin drop? Or was it a pin head? Or maybe a gimp quietly closing up his zipper?

You were hearing the sound of your brain cells dying. Read this... carefully...

http://practical-tech.com/infrastructure/lenovo-exits-pre-installed-linux-desktop-business/

In other words, as before and has long been the case with companies like HP, corporate and government customers can order desktop Linux, but individual users will not be able to order
it.


Get it? It isn't available to the consumer market at all. Ooooooh, that's GOTTA HURT... But wait, there's more ...


Gorman did add that, “We will be delivering new Linux offerings on our new Lenovo servers, and IdeaPad netbook education models, scheduled for release in September and October respectively.”


Sounds good, right? Wrong. Read on...

The IdeaPad S9, the model with Linux, however, will not be available at all to the U.S. market.

TOTAL FAIL. Your so-called TRIUMPH just went down in flames. The IdeaPad won't even be available in the U.S. Before you say, "Buh... the U.S. isn't the WORRRRRRRRRRRRRLD..." let me just say ... Lenovo isn't offering the IdeaPad in the U.S. because consumers simply don't want it. Instead, Lenovo is going to try to shove it onto unsuspecting n00bs outside the U.S. in the hopes that it's supposed low price will be enough to convince consumers to move away from p1rat3d Windows. Which won't happen. At all. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Nice try. Gotta hand it to you for trying to spin bad news, Baghdad Bob, but people aren't that gullible...

julian67 said...

Why should anyone care if a particular model ships to the US or not? But anyway it's nice that you perceive having less choice than everyone else as cause for celebration. Award yourself a whole entire intarweb and a trusted computing module.

Maybe you'll be able to pick up an IdeaPad in Baghdad.

I'm impressed with the concept that I'm wrong because everything I said turned out to be right. Hmm, ok. You practise some kind of quantum thinking?...or maybe you're just very very stupid.

BillGatesPenis said...

"Then I thought to myself, why the fuck do I have to read this list on a luser amateur's blog? "

Because you are an anus-raping loser.

Anonymous said...


But anyway it's nice that you perceive having less choice than everyone else as cause for celebration.

I think its a good thing we don't have to choose food with or without germs/bacteria.


We like our computers how we like our bacon ;)


PWNED.

Anonymous said...

HAHA.

This calls for a penguin dance.

Anonymous said...

Delphi was originally created as a tool for talking to databases. At the time, the largest and most widely prevalent database system was Oracle.

So, if you want to talk to the Oracle, go to Delphi :)

Delphi was an internal code name at Borland, but those guys couldn't think of a better name and so it stuck. Doesn't really matter, since only developers will use Delphi and they'd appreciate the reference.

--Phil

Anonymous said...

@julian67

Having many 1/2 assed options is so much better than a few (or even one) working option, right?

-- Phil

billgatespenis said...

fuck up you retard.

Anonymous said...

@julian67: "Why should anyone care...?"

Fixed it for you.

But anyway it's nice that you perceive having less choice than everyone else as cause for celebration. Award yourself a whole entire intarweb and a trusted computing module.

Actually, Lenovo did the U.S. consumer market a service by not dumping half-baked crap Linux on them. It will save consumers from mistakenly buying one, realizing that they actually wanted Windows, and returning crap Linux ...

Maybe you'll be able to pick up an IdeaPad in Baghdad.

That's not a bad idea. Maybe Lenovo could drop-ship a couple cargo ships' worth of that crap to Iran, so that our adversaries can suffer with crappy techn0l0gee...

I'm impressed with the concept that I'm wrong because everything I said turned out to be right.

Oh, puh-lease. You prematurely declared victory -- even though Lenovo KILLED desktop Linux distribution in the U.S. consumer market. EPIC FAIL. And that's what this blog is all about.

Hmm, ok. You practise some kind of quantum thinking?...or maybe you're just very very stupid."

The only stupidity here is your trying to spin the loss of the U.S. Linux consumer market as a victory. There's no other way to see that than UTTER FAILURE. The fact that you CAN'T see that just points out that you're either (a) one self-delusional motherfucker, or (b) you're just an asshole sociopath who delights in controversy. Either way, you're wasting oxygen.

Anonymous said...

julian67

But anyway it's nice that you perceive having less choice than everyone else as cause for celebration.


Companies such as Dell and others have been offering desktop Linux for awhile, so the market has already spoken. People have chosen Windows and OS X, not Linux. I'm sorry if you don't like this reality, but that's just the way it is. Linux isn't offering anything that can't be found in Windows or OS X, and price just isn't enough of a differentiator to justify switching. Deal with it.

Anonymous said...


you're just an asshole sociopath who delights in controversy. Either way, you're wasting oxygen.


WTF?! I think he can do the penguin dance very well.

Anonymous said...

@julian67: "... so obviously I'm not a loser"

That is, by no means, obvious. ;-p

Romas said...

All you Linux lovers are doing big disservice for your beloved OS then bragging about its greatness on countless forums.
Sometimes people fall for it and two days later feel greatly disappointed.

So lets assume average computer user reads your love posts and thinks: "Wow this Linux thing must be really cool - everyone is obsessed with it. I think I'll try it".

"OK these wobbling windows look really nice but my wireless isn't working. But I think that is no problem because Linux is known for its great and helpful community."

Next day on ubuntuforums:

"Hello guys, I just installed Ubuntu Masturbating Monkey and it's awesome but for some reason my wireless isn't working. I am on >INSERT LAPTOP NAME<.

Some random luser:

"Wow, dude, your computer's manufacturer uses wireless adapter from evil company which doesn't open-source its drivers on behalf of greater tomorrow. However you can try ndiswrapper, which is a pain in the ass to use, mostly doesn't work and crashes your computer on random occasion. But this is because it tries to make use of those closed-source drivers so it's their fault. Hey, but look on the bright side: you still can plug in an Ethernet cable and have those lovely wobbling windows! Oh, and be more free or something. >INSERT 3000 words long ranting about MS being evil<

Average guy: "Screw you guys, I'm going home".

Anonymous said...

BS. You set up his box. In addition, you made HIS box dependent on YOUR box for TS sessions. You're his admin when things go wrong -- and, if you're honest, you'll admit that things DO go wrong. If you let him administer his own box, it means that you're giving him permission to install software -- and that is no better than running as admin under Windows.

There is a shortcut on his Gnome desktop that he can click on to connect to my TS. From there he can launch any Windows application installed on my system from Gnome application shortcuts on his desktop. No start menu or icons appear, just the application windows--hence the name seamless.

My Fedora laptop also uses my TS on occasion. I've patched termsrv.dll to enable unlimited simultaneous RDP sessions and allow me to use my own machine even while a remote user is logged in.

Anyway, he has his own user account on my Vista system that I have no control over. I know his password because I created the account but I never try imposing anything and no personal settings are stored there.

He also knows his root password but knows only to download software from the trusted repository via PackageKit or Yum.

With a limited user account? How? You're trusting a guy who doesn't know what the fuck he's doing to install crap on his machine? Nice. When he gets rooted, you'll wonder why you didn't setup a limited account.

I showed him exactly how to install applications from the PackageKit GUI.

Anyway he has Rkhunter, Chkrootkit, SELinux enabled as enforcing with very strict memory and unconfined application execution privliages.

ClamAV with a GTK front-end and a Firewall installed as well. OpenSSH and other daemons listening to incoming connections have been disabled and/or uninstalled.

How often would you expect ANYONE to install crap on their machine? Is it a daily thing in your household?

Probably not but I don't check his yum.log. I'm confident that the only thing he'll install are packages available in the trusted repository because that is really the only place he'll find compiled binaries that are guaranteed to work. He has been taught how to compile software with GCC.

WTF makes you think that someone can't create their own package and put it up on a website for your father to download? Is that really so fucking difficult to accomplish? No, it isn't. And you're just as vulnerable as downloading and running random crap off the Web under Windows. Ergo, you're not gaining crap by running Linux.

They can but its rare. The vast majority FOSS software hosted on independent sites (such as SourceForge or Freshmeat are distributed as source tarballs.

Besides I just said he only gets his software from the repository

You do realize that SQL injection attacks are primarily a Web APPLICATION problem, right? It has nothing to do with IIS or Microsoft server technology.

I do realize that but the systems were compromised nonetheless. It doesn't really matter how it was done.

SELinux's Apache module in Fedora and RHEL have strict confining rules that greatly reduce the chance of web applications leaving an inlet for malicious attacks in this manner. Granted it doesn't prevent every other means of attack, such as preventing a vulnerable app from posing a security issue--thats what other SELinux rules, ASLR, FORTIFY-SOURCE and Exec-Shield protect against.

No security system in place is bulletproof which is what Red Hat witnessed last month. I think they learned something and made the necessary internal ramifications.

Again, if your father needs Windows, he should be running Windows. I'm not sure why you're fighting it so much. It's pointless.

He doesn't need Windows if he can occasionally run a few of his Windows applications in Linux natively via Wine or remotely via STS.

Actually, Windows compatibility does gives him more software options than what typically would be available for Linux users. Of course the threat of malware and viruses exist but he has an Anti-virus that scans for Windows and the few Linux viruses. Plus, an infected .wine directory isn't the end of the world anyway--just make backups and replace as needed (not that it has needed to be done yet).

Anonymous said...

so the market has already spoken

The market seems to be in need of help from Papa State lately, poor invisible hand. ;)

While you are still pooping in your pants coz "there's no internetz icon on my desktop", Linux is powering the new paradigms of physics.

Anonymous said...

He has been taught how to compile software with GCC.

Oops... I meant he *hasn't* been taught.

Anonymous said...

Linux is powering the new paradigms of physics.

Heh. Not totally. On the desktops: windows.

Nice try, freetard.

Anonymous said...

No security system in place is bulletproof which is what Red Hat witnessed last month.

Then isn't it really retarded and hypocritical of you to be whining about Windows? Fcukin' freetards.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, coz probably all the interesting stuff is happening and being processed on the windows desktop, no? Or maybe that desktops are mere visualizers, don't know, don't know...

Anonymous said...

"[Lenovo], best known for producing the ex-IBM range of ThinkPad laptops beloved of executives the world over, has apparently ceased offering pre-installed Linux just one year after introducing Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop as an option."

Oh boy!

"While the IdeaPad S9 was announced with Linux, the company will only be launching the Windows XP-based S10 model to the public. The S9 is available, but only for “overseas education markets” – which is to say bulk orders from large governments."

Right. Lenovo is big on "commitment" to Linux, but when it comes to products, there's no Linux for you! Will the Linux bums come to their senses, and just give up already? Microsoft is clearly better than you in software development, and it is kicking your ass in almost every imaginable way. Why do you even bother trying?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, coz probably all the interesting stuff is happening and being processed on the windows desktop, no?
necessary stuff for sure, interesting i'm not sure (except games but then again there are consoles)

Anonymous said...

@anonymous

necessary stuff for sure, interesting i'm not sure (except games but then again there are consoles)

That is the some of the dumbest nonsense out there. I'm sick of hearing Linux Zealots talk about how if you want to play games, then get a console.

Windows offers a gaming experience which far exceeds that of consoles.

Like LH says, to be a luser you have to look at a feature Linux doesn't have, then convince yourself you don't need it.

Conversely, you have the zealots who try to assert that Linux does have games, then they point to the vast repositories of cheesy, Atari 7800-era games available for Linux.

Anonymous said...

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/11/asus-express-windows/

Splashtop DOA; ASUS only supporting Windows as boot-time gimmick.

So much for those MILLIONS of Asus mobos that will reeducate users of the joys of Linux.

Dance, penguinboy, dance! Tell us why it's a GOOD think Asus kills Splashtop!

Anonymous said...

Hmm. Julian, didn't several people here tell you there were two parts to the technology -- the BIOS loader part and the Linux stack? And doesn't this very article CONFIRM what we were saying: Asus was implementing the loader and not the full Linux stack?

Bad week for you, mate; p0wned again.

julian67 said...

"Windows offers a gaming experience which far exceeds that of consoles"

That's true if you have very expensive high end hardware. Most PCs don't come close to console standards. It makes more sense to buy a console whatever OS you use unless you already have a high end PC or are prepared to spend a lot, much more than the price of a console, upgrading or replacing the PC. A console costs less than a really capable graphics card, because the console prices are massively subsidised; the profit is made on the games.

Windows is definitely the best OS for gaming, which is why lots of people dual boot. There are excellent games for Linux but they are much fewer. However this week Steam is announcing a native Linux port so that looks like it's changing a little.

"http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/11/asus-express-windows/"

Anyone who reads anything Roy Schestowitz writes and takes it seriously needs their head examined.

From what I've read some Asus boards will come with the Windows installers and others will have the full native splashtop. Roy likes to focus exclusively on the things which (to him) smell of conspiracy and deceit. It makes for better blog headlines than actually getting some facts.

"And doesn't this very article CONFIRM what we were saying: Asus was implementing the loader and not the full Linux stack?"

I've never read an article by RS that confirmed anything other than his total detachment from reality and his rabid hatred of MS and every person and company associated with them. His blog is about as bad a source of information as you can imagine. It might even be less well informed and more partisan than some of the posters here.

Think about it: how are those virtualized Linux applications going to run if they don't contain a kernel, libraries etc? They can't. If the applications are in fact individual virtual applicances they will all require this. There's no way to run an application, Win32, Linux, Mac, whatever, without an interface to the hardware, real or virtual. If you have discovered a way you should keep very quiet and make a trip to the patents office. You will soon be fabulously rich.

Anonymous said...

From what I've read some Asus boards will come with the Windows installers and others will have the full native splashtop.

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! When in doubt, slam the source -- even if it's information from a well-known Linux sympathizer! (In the law, there's a concept of a statement that goes against the interest of the speaker, which is an exception to hearsay. Here, we have a news development that goes against the interest of the blogger -- which means we should treat it more seriously, not less.)

And then you muddy the waters with some vague things that you might have heard. Or not. Can't really say. Don't know precisely how committed Asus now. Maybe is. Maybe not.

Brilliant dance, penguinboy! p0wned again.

Anonymous said...

how are those virtualized Linux applications going to run if they don't contain a kernel, libraries etc? They can't. If the applications are in fact individual virtual applicances they will all require this. There's no way to run an application, Win32, Linux, Mac, whatever, without an interface to the hardware, real or virtual.

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the notion of an embedded OS or RTOS. You don't need a full OS to run a small set of applications; hell, that's the whole idea behind the idea of the iphone.

Careful, mate; the people here are smarter than the slashdot set and won't put up with your BS.

julian67 said...

"Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! When in doubt, slam the source -- even if it's information from a well-known Linux sympathizer! (In the law, there's a concept of a statement that goes against the interest of the speaker, which is an exception to hearsay. Here, we have a news development that goes against the interest of the blogger -- which means we should treat it more seriously, not less.) "

First, the source: is unreliable, partisan and frequently dishonets and disingenuous.I've read quite a lot of his articles and, unlike you, I don't have unquestioning faith in things simply on the basis of someone asserting them to be true.

It's fantastic and remarkable that you are willing to believe something merely on the basis that a person on the www has said it. This suggests that you are very very stupid indeed.

Second: he is actually wrong in this case.

Like I said previously Asus are shipping some boards with native splashtop and some with a Win installer only (perhaps this is cheaper than re-engineering already exixting hardware?).

The full splashtop on Asus boards was previously identified as "Express Gate" and the Windows installer version as Express Gate Lite".

That's changed.

Now the full splashtop is identified as "Express Gate SSD" and the Windows installer version simply as "Express Gate".

That seems to explain the cause of a lot of confusion. the boards with SSD (flash memory) integrated get the full product and cheaper boards or pre-existing boards without SSD get the installer.

Amazing.

You're wrong again.

You're so dumb you believe anything on the basis that someone wrote it down on a blog and then brag about it. I'm sorry but that is just fucking depressing.

You're a fucking idiot.

julian67 said...

"Clearly you are unfamiliar with the notion of an embedded OS or RTOS. You don't need a full OS to run a small set of applications; hell, that's the whole idea behind the idea of the iphone.

Careful, mate; the people here are smarter than the slashdot set and won't put up with your BS. "


So please enlighten us. Obviously you know something that Splashtop don't know, that Asus don't know and that, in fact, nobody else knows. They all seem to think their virtualised applicances are using a Linux kernel.

There are many smart people, but you aren't one of them.

Please point out the OS, embedded, virtual, real or otherwise that doesn't use a kernel. It sounds fantastic. We can abandon all this tiresome Windows/GNU Linux/OS X/Solaris/Unix stuff and just launch our favoured applications direct from hardware with no OS!

Wonderful!

Don't forget to let Steve Jobs know that the iPhone doesn't in fact run OS X. Please try to get a photo of his expression when the penny drops. Thank you.

Are you in fact a zdnet journalist?

Unfortunately your posts are devoid of any actual information or facts. Unless you can offer some your posts will continue to offer all the insight, credibility and relevance of a barking dog. woof.

woof woof woof!

(translation: you fucking idiot!)

Anonymous said...

Hey kids, while you are still trying to figure out how to install and run Linux, Linux has already figured out how to run Large Hadron Collider.

Too bad it hasn't figured out how to keep it secure:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/09/12/scicern212.xml

julian67 said...

"We think that someone from Fermilab's Tevatron (the competing atom smasher in America) had their access details compromised," said one of the scientists working on the machine. "What happened wasn't a big deal, just goes to show people are out there always on the prowl."

No system is secure from someone who can make an authorised log in ;-)

Anonymous said...

bby the way, julian67 is not british... no self respecting person would ever say "mom"

julian67 said...

"no self respecting person would ever say "mom" "

I think American's might ;-)

I realise a lot of the posters here are American and several are of very very low intelligence indeed and repeatedly express almost zero awareness of the world beyond their borders or their tv sets. I was being kind because they're easily confused. That's just me, kind and considerate through and through.

you're a mummyfucker

Anonymous said...

@Julian67

I think American's might ;-)

I realise a lot of the posters here are American and several are of very very low intelligence indeed and repeatedly express almost zero awareness of the world beyond their borders or their tv sets. I was being kind because they're easily confused.


You don't appear to wield much intelligence either. I suggest a basic grammar course, as you wrote "American's" rather than "Americans" in your post.

Go sharpen your pixelated crayons, I look forward to your next anti-American invective-laden offering.

julian67 said...

Oooh! A typo!!!!! OMFG!

Let's see, we just discount the opinions of everyone who posted here who made a typo and didn't use the non-existent blogger.com spellchecker. That leaves us with how many approved posters? Zero!

Here's a grammatically correct statement for you:

You are a dumb cunt.

I'm not anti-American, only Dumb Americans aka The Ugly American. For a nation with every economic advantage you produce a surprisingly significant portion of parochially minded, bigoted morons whose wealth and technology gives them a loud voice and undeserved influence.

And then you elect them.

Anonymous said...

@Julian67

And you are what? An intellectual cunt?

All I see here are your moronic anti-American statements.

Is your country comprised of nothing but worldly sophisticates? There is no shortage of British dumbasses just as there is no shortage of American ones.

Anonymous said...

Julian67 is obviously nothing but a little keyboard warrior bitch with so social skills who has nothing better to do than troll discussions.

Anonymous said...

@julian67
Alrighty, then, your mum's a cunt.
Happy now? (Sorry.. are you happy now?).

I see you are yet to grasp the difference between a splashtop and a desktop. Since you're resistant to logic, I'll summarize it for the benefit of the rest of the readers:
Splashtop is an appliance. locked down, limited functionality, non expandable bios add-on.

julian67 - your idiocy is impenetrable, your arguments are nothing more than incessant repetitions, no matter the counter argument, and with no interest in the debate.
In short, you're not really worth any attention, from this point on, you're considered irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

This Julian67 character seems to have irritated quite a few "Anonymous'"

I, for one, am done feeding this pathetic troll.

julian67 said...

Was it something I said?

julian67 said...

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_38/b4100084242512.htm?campaign_id=rss_tech

"The ecosystem that Microsoft (MSFT) has built up around its Windows operating system is showing signs of strain. In one of several recent moves by partners that sell or support the company's software, Hewlett-Packard (HPQ), the world's No. 1 PC maker, has quietly assembled a group of engineers to develop software that will let customers bypass certain features of Vista, the latest version of Windows. Employees on a separate skunk works team are even angling to replace Windows with an HP-assembled operating system, say three sources close to the company. "

http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid39_gci1329483,00.html

"According to the Data Center Decisions 2008 Purchasing Intentions Survey, 91% of data centers run Microsoft Windows, but a large percentage also use Red Hat Enterprise Linux (48%) or Novell SUSE (21%, multiple versions) in their data centers. Nonetheless, Linux use remains limited in scope, with two-thirds of respondents running Linux on 25% or less of their servers, with application servers the most common pairing.

But Linux use could be on the upswing: 47% of respondents said they would use or evaluate Linux in the coming year, with lower cost as the primary driver. But the largest percentage said they had no further plans to migrate from Unix to Linux, indicating that future Linux growth would be at the expense of other platforms. In response to a different question, 23% said that whenever possible they would migrate from Windows to Linux, and another 16% said that to avoid a Windows upgrade, they would migrate to Linux."

Anonymous said...

Don't forget to let Steve Jobs know that the iPhone doesn't in fact run OS X.

Not a full version, mate. Apps like the web browser are downsized and specialized for the iPhone, while others -- like the ones offered in the iTunes store -- are written specifically for the specialized OS.

Once again your lack of knowledge of operating systems is staggering.

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