Thursday, October 2, 2008

Pulse my audio

I was saving this one until this article became free on LWN.net. It's awesomeness is truly unparalleled.


Let me attempt to summarize.

A) PulseAudio needs to work with existing applications, so it implements an ALSA emulation layer, except, it's not complete. Only 70% of ALSA applications work. So it's like, totally ready.

B) So, in the true open source fashion, you should port your app to be a native PulseAudio client. Except that you can't. There's this yet-another-audio-library called libsidney, but it's not ready yet. (Hmm, this sounds familiar...)

C) Fedora led the way in incorporating PulseAudio before it was ready, breaking audio for thousands of users. Then because open source is about copying good ideas and bad ones, a ton of other distros adopted it as well. Amazing guys. In a way, you've spread bad code that breaks audio on thousands of computers faster than a virus could have. And it's immune to antivirus!

D) so now that we're in this "mess" (as the lead developer of PulseAudio calls it*), LSB comes along and says "we're going to standardize how your write audio apps!" Oh, but wait, ALSA's now "old" (we hardly knew ye), and I can't directly program PulseAudio. Hmm... So the article's brilliant solution? Standardize on the PulseAudio-safe subset of ALSA.

WHAT THE FUCK.

I can just imagine the future alsa man page. A big listing of functions, with a nice little asterisk next to those functions that you shouldn't use unless you want your app to totally FAIL on a system which has been sodomized by Pulse Audio. I can just see the developers of commercial Linux sound apps (all three of them) jumping for joy. 

And thus unfolds another chapter in long history of failed sound systems on Linux. Can they make it much worse? I, for one, am excited to see how much worse they can make it until we all go back to listening to square waves on our PC speakers.

* BTW, also notice that it's the PulseAudio guy calling Linux audio a mess. Did he forget that it was his project that took the existing mess, and unloaded a giant steaming turd on it? Congratufuckinglations. You've just made it worse. You're a truly a worthy OSS contributor.


549 flames:

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Anonymous said...

As was said by some luser

cp sound.wav /dev/audio

This is the future of linux audio right there. That is PCM - uncompressed.

Anonymous said...

I couldn't agree more, pulseaudio was adopted before it was ready..

Btw that was,

cat sound.wav > /dev/audio

Anonymous said...

And with pulse audio....the year of the Linux desktop is finally here.....

Anonymous said...

so true :(

Nano said...

Every time someone asks me about audio problems in Linux, I tell him to remove it and install esd instead. It works.

Also 'cat /usr/share/icons/*/* > /dev/dsp' - the sound of tiny graphic files is in some ways awesome.

Anonymous said...

"It offers advanced features such as network transparency: an application can play a sound on a remote system, and PulseAudio makes it come out the speakers on the remote machine where the user is working. "

Well, I'm glad they've got their priorities straight. I can't remember the number of times I've wanted to do that. Possibly because I never have.

"PulseAudio is optimized for general desktop use "

Is it just me or does this contradict the part above? Since when does "general desktop use" involve playing shit to remote machines? As a general desktop user I don't want my audio system to be accessible from the network.

This is a total farce.

FossHater said...

Why the hate on the PulseAudio dev?

He tries to come up with a better solution, doesn't succeed very well, and, still, the project gets used.

Well, of course it's all his fault, we should just shoot him in the face for coming up with this shit.

Anonymous said...

Amen to that, linux audio has never worked flawless.

Finally get it working in KDE, switch to fluxbox and no sound again...

Anonymous said...

It's not Pulse Audio that sucks, it's 90% of things before that (and in that picture, ALSA a decent kernel system, apart of a few non-fundamental issues with it, like the mixer mess).

But alsalib API is complicated and has stuff's which can't possibly all work with userspace emulation like PA. So all that's left is to convert apps to use "compatible" part of the API, or the libsydney when it's available.

So don't criticize the guy for mess which he tries to put behind.

Anonymous said...

Why the hate on the PulseAudio dev?
He tries to come up with a better solution, doesn't succeed very well, and, still, the project gets used


I think that's the point of this blog. If someone hired you to fix a problem and your code made things worse after you checked it into version control, you'd get canned.

In the happy smiley FOSS world we're all supposed to be grateful just because he didn't give up earlier.

Anonymous said...

Microsoft had DirectSound since 1996, problem solved.
Apple had coreAudio since 1999, problem solved.

PulseAudio was started in early 2004. Waited half a decade, the problem only grew worse.

FOSS cannot execute.

antifundies said...

LH is obviously lying. Think about it. The SOURCE CODE IS THERE and OPEN TO EVERYONE. If the end user happens to have trouble with PulseAudio, he can just debug out of his problems.

Anonymous said...

fuck open source and its shitty ways of doing things

Anonymous said...

"It's also network-transparent and supports features such as placing desktop sound events based on mouse position."
wow. i'd use those features all the time. this just shows how far behind the times windows/os x are. keep up the good work you amazing futuristic spacemen

DamnRight said...

Pulseaudio dude recently wrote a mini-essay about choosing your audio API poison wisely depending on which class of app you're trying to develop. It's a funny read.

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis.html

The actual purpose however (if you notice it's the only sentence that's in bold) is to let the mob know how incredibly bad OSS is. The same OSS which, by chance, got recently open sourced (so the license whingers can't use it anymore as an excuse) and always worked pretty flawlessy, on pretty much every unix flavor.

Alas, it's Not Invented Here, and it's not freetard-sanctioned, so no go. Let the jungle prevail. The Seigo-led Gnome vs. KDE infighting that breaks out in the comments is a sight to behold too.

Ego, ego, ego. And cluelessness. What a cocktail!

taffer said...

Holy crap, this comment is the best ever:

If the end user happens to have trouble with PulseAudio, he can just debug out of his problems.

Linux takes over the desktop, '08! That's a totally effective solution to people trying to port games to Linux, or audio apps, or even just get shit done on the desktop.

*facepalm*

DamnRight said...

As an aside, I truly don't understand the freetard obsession with making everything networkable. Then again I must admit that it worked pretty well for X. Why kludge up system-level services with stuff nobody needs? Make a goddamn working, simple stack with solid basic features, and if some moron really fancies sending audio over IP code the appropriate userland program to do it. Heh.

Anonymous said...

Luser comment rush in 5..4..3..2..

It's always a trend on this blog. We have LH readers post first, then we have the lusers rush in en mass; as if they are going to change something.

I wonder what that something is?

And yeah, Pulse Audio can go suck a big one.

TeeB said...

to damnright: just beacuse you don't see a need for something doesn't mean it's useless, and your X remark pretty much proves it. But then, you really weren't expecting a serious conversation, were you? "Freetard" sort of gives it away...

Truth is though, Linux audio is a mess. ALSA is a barely working chaos, and Pulseaudio, jack, esound etc. are just bubblegum patches over it. It's about time to redesign Linux audio from scratch - again. As an audio engineer I'm still stuck with Windows, and probably will be as long as Linux audio is the mess it is.

Anonymous said...

JACK's uncompromising approach toward latency means it's likely to hog too much power to be acceptable to battery-life-watching desktop users

Desktop users watch their battery life?

Anonymous said...

I remember seeing people bitch about flash issues with pulse audio and them blaming Adobe. Adobe got some really bad rep from that. Too bad none of it was their fault. At least it works fine with ALSA.

Linux has too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Anonymous said...

I've been using linux for almost 10 years now, and sound have always been a nightmare.

many things were a nightmare, but most of them have been improved.

Audio is just becoming worse and worse every year!

Anonymous said...

As an aside, I truly don't understand the freetard obsession with making everything networkable.

in the case of audio there are three main use cases:
playing sound in the audio equivalent of a vidiwall (that to require more than 8 channels would need to be a very wide and /or "immersive" realistic audio environment)
listening from the bedroom, to some music CD or ogg file playing on the living room's pc (with a second networked diskless or embedded machine, of course)
last but not least, embarassing / frightening a fellow workmate in a funny way by letting his/her desktop play a loud disgusting/annoying sound when he/she least expects it ( typical nerd joke) :D

Then again I must admit that it worked pretty well for X

yes, but X makes sense because it is a way of remoting an application - (graphics are generated remotely, but are not also viewed remotely... )
for audio, remoting does not make much sense (in a "send me the PCM stream decoded from that in your directory" way, maybe... in the "play this sample on your sound card for me" way it is implemented now, certainly not) and this a concept lusers seem unable to grasp :(

tuomov said...

"I've been using linux for almost 10 years now, and sound have always been a nightmare.

many things were a nightmare, but most of them have been improved.

Audio is just becoming worse and worse every year!"

I've used Linux for over 10 years now, and it's all been a big downhill slide. Things that didn't completely suck back then, keep getting worse and worse every year, and things that did already suck, are not improved. (E.g. the bloatware known as Xorg/XFree86 is still allowed full control of the console, instead of a small easily debuggable and reliable mode-switching part in the kernel or -- better yet -- microkernel service ensuring that complex bloatware can't lock up the console. The staunch freetards say that you never see a BSOD on Linux. And they're right: Linux just locks up without notice.)

I originally switched to Linux from DOS, because I didn't like Windows, and it was clear that DOS was being obsoleted with the release of W95. After more than ten years of seeing Linux (and many things common to *BSD) being converted into a poor clone of Windows, I'm finally nearing the point of being ready to make the switch to Windows itself.

Anonymous said...

The author of PulseAudio has done this in the past, it seems to be his modus operandi.

He originally decided to write a replacement to Apple's Bonjour with his own API.

He implemented a "better" API and tried to convince people to use the "better" API which worked passably.

But to make sure that people using the old API adopted his project, he implemented the old API as well.

And here is where it gets interesting: publicly he claimed "You can keep using the Apple API", but when you actually tried it the daemon would claim that "this api is unsupported and unstable" and proceed to behave accordingly (unstably crashing randomly).

Of course, fixes for this API never came because Apple's design is "erroneous.

His API of course does not work on OSX, so if you want to write apps that work on both systems, instead of using one API, you need to use two.

Richard Stallman said...

LOVE THE GNU OR ELSE YOUR A REPUBLICAN.

RS

PS, I do support Pedos

damnright said...

teeb/anon: just because you like tacking on features to something that does not work does not mean that's smart. I think most users would settle for working, instead of potentially cool. If you need wacky shit you can code all the user apps you want to tackle that.

In Linux it goes beyond architecture astronaut-ism straight to architecture anarchy. Controlled chaos sometimes works with a benevolent dictator at the helm (kernel), but that's an exception.

Defending X with its glacial release pace and mammoth stack nobody needs is kinda funny, but to each its own. Guess you miss those good old mainframe days. Just realize that to get acceptable speed on a desktop it's using a nice collection of hacks to make it work like it was NOT designed to.

Eventually the devs will have to decide if they want to ship stuff that works or keep re-releasing the Lego OS for righteous tinkerers (now with the new exciting Pulseaudio taste!) ad infinitum. I'm not holding my breath.

Anonymous said...

Linux audio is a fucking mess. 100% right. And I say this as Linux fanboy. It is fucking terrible, and you Wintards have every right to talk shit about the Linux audio sitution right now.

We need to standardize on just ONE API, ALSA, improve that shit and just trash everything else.

Anonymous said...

We need to standardize

Fixed that for you. Chaos doesn't work very well when it comes to software engineering. But hey, you can keep on believing that bazaar crap if you want.

Kevin said...

I think that X should be responsible for audio as well as graphics. Then the "audio server", like esd/PusleAudio/etc., as a separate daemon process is not needed. You get all the X services for "free" (timing, synchronizing graphics w/ audio, network transparency, authentication).

Take a look at X11 Audio Extension. It's a new project, but it looks interesting:

http://www.chaoticmind.net/~hcb/murx/xaudio/

Linux audio is a mess.

fredomrocks said...

WTF. How much is M$ paying you to write this trolling piece of shit blog..


audio in linux is NOT A MESS !!! I'mm in charge of several school PCs with ubuntu. they all have different configurations and sound chips and audio just works. OSS rocks !!!


Most of the issues are with faulty chips or some other hardware timing issue. M$ actively tries to kill FOSS but it just cant do it ! hahaha. you guys r just fuckin jealous of linux success. every where u see there is linux. in ur routers in ur cellphone, in ur atm, ur bank probably uses linux (they know which OS to trust .. lol) etc etc. every one knows u work for ms or u get paid.. its plain obvious dude...


haha.. u cant stop us.. ever..

Anonymous said...

@fredomrocks:

First off dumbass, you can't even spell freedom, wtf are you doing anywhere near a school? Oh, you're enrolled in pre-school, gotcha. Second, wtf are you doing exposing those poor kids to such shit? You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Third, have fun having more than one sound play back at once. Fourth, you're fucking lying.

luser.

Anonymous said...

Linus, is that you?.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and 5th, success? 0.91% desktop share... I guess being the smelly shitbag you are it's all relative.

Wake up you fucking pedo.

Anonymous said...

Yes, we cannot stop the invincible army of 12 years old sysAdmin wannabes..

I surrender, please be gentle.

Anonymous said...

Sound in Linux was a terrible experience for me. Bad sound quality with lots of distortion, sound in media players stops all of a sudden requiring a reboot, youtube videos with no sound, yay... and yeah i never got 2 sounds playing at the same time. Linux sucks.

Anonymous said...

It's a new project, but it looks interesting:

this is the beginning of every doomed Linux project. Throwing out a concept is the easy part. The process almost always fails at the implementation stage.

freedomrocks said...

ya i misspelt it so what. lol.. all u can come up with is lame points. I have yet to see evidence that windows is better.


kernel is developed by paid software devs, so ur wrong there.

its only user tools which r mostly independant projects. because of the large community the testing is really good and quality is much better than closed source. its simple.. big companies cannot hire such huge teams to test.


no matter what u say.. linux is easy to use and its free. u dont have to pay M$ tax to use it. how can u compete with free. besides most of market share data is wrong, its done by ms companies. linux is around 3-4% share. ms is sinking.. hehe its better to jump on to a life raft when u can.


also show me a single benchmark that shows linux is slower than windows.

Anonymous said...

@freedomrocks
You're so cute! Can I keep you as a pet?

Anonymous said...

FOSS cannot execute.

Maybe the sound system is in flux, I haven't encountered it, but maybe that due to using a polished distro, with tight integration.

Apple, however, is using CUPS, the common unix printing system and there are even rumors that instead of rewrite the entire ad hoc printing system in Windows, MS is (speculation) interested in adopting it as well, particularly for the way it seamless works in a network.

Some things are done very right in open source land. (and obviously some are done very wrong). Same can be said for all OSes.

Anonymous said...

> because of the large community the
> testing is really good and quality
> is much better than closed source.
> its simple.. big companies cannot
> hire such huge teams to test.

troll harder

Anonymous said...

linux and sound are a combination of gay sex with an iron mace.

To all fanny boys of linux and its stupid sound "systems", go home and take your half-baked os with you, along with your poorly drawn amateur porn, RMS action figure made out of paperclips and a pasted on printed out image of him.

Year of linux on the desktop has come and completely failed.

Anonymous said...

WTF!!
I've never had any need for OSS or Pulseaudio, or any of the Soundservers.
The ALSA setup is working perfectly, I can configure all the three soundcards in anyway to work together.
Hell, on windows, the integrated nvidia/rtl sound drivers sometime will lose some of the outputs, so the surround will become stereo, and only way to fix is clear install.
And, on windows, it is not possible to use multiple soundcards at the same time. I am totally wondering all the comments here about linux audio. It just works. Pulseaudio, let it develop and let's see when it is mature.

Anonymous said...

oh christ don't push him any farther!
he's gonna give us a benchmark about how much faster linux boots!!!

Anonymous said...

I will hug him, and kiss him, and call him Chuck!

I wonder if he's potty trained.

freedomrocks said...

imm not trolling. just stating facts. maybe if u guys actually could use linux u would see too. oss can replace any software out there for general users.

Anonymous said...

This whole blog basically the Oasis for Slashdot trolls. Being accused of being a troll here is like being accused of having an asshole.

Anonymous said...

@freedomrocks
Can you say "gaga"?
Who's a cutey pie?

Anonymous said...

What kind of idiot needs sound on a computer anyway?

Anonymous said...

The Linux Loons are out of control, and it shows. They talk about sharing, freedom and all that crap. But vanity, conceit, and greed seem to control their behavior.

The bums are utterly unable to work together to create a working audio solution for their pet operating system. One guy wants OSS, one wants ALSA, and one wants the new PulseAudio. It's each guy to his own 'freedom', and all three 'solutions' will continue to exist, not to mention a dozen others. This ensures that Linux is fundamentally and eternally fucked.

That makes me real happy. It's payback for all the lies the Linux bums tell the general public about how their wretched Linux system is superior to Microsoft Windows.

freedomrocks said...

wow u ppl r really tryin hard to hate linux. lol.. dont u get it, OSS is the future. nobody wants to pay for software nemore..ppl just want free stuff, so web (ad money) and oss r the only options.

n also, linux is not so bad now, u guys shld install the latest ubuntu or even try the livecd ! u dont have to partition .. !

Anonymous said...

OSS is the future

I thought ALSA was the future. No, wait, PulseAudio is the future.

:P

Anonymous said...

Oh but then they wouldn't have anything to complain about

Anonymous said...

http://lwn.net/Articles/299483/
demonstrated a Linux system booting in five seconds. The hardware was an Asus EEE PC, which has solid-state storage, and the two developers beat the five second mark with two software loads: one modified Fedora and one modified Moblin. They had to hold up the EEE PC for the audience, since the time required to finish booting was less than the time needed for the projector to sync.
...
And no cheating. "Done booting means CPU and disk idle," Arjan said. No fair putting up the desktop while still starting services behind the scenes. (An audience member pointed out that Microsoft does this.)


Yes, Linux does nothing right. At this pace, it will do nothing right in every respect far better than MS's wet dreams.

Yes, start the rants. So it boots faster, still useless. So what boot time is meaningless in the big scheme, I never boot my computer it sleeps, apologize away, in terms of kernel optimization, kernel power management initiatives (what's that, the 3 cell Acer Apsire One runs longer than the 6 cell XP version? doesn't matter I am never far from an outlet), and now instant on of a full blown OS, at least network copy was fixed after only a year or so.

Craig Matthews said...

anonymous freetard said:
"Hell, on windows, the integrated nvidia/rtl sound drivers sometime will lose some of the outputs, so the surround will become stereo, and only way to fix is clear install."

You reinstall the entire operating system when a sound driver (written by a company who didn't realize Vista was out until a year after it was released) fails? Maybe you should stay the frack away from computers.

anonymous freetard then said:
"And, on windows, it is not possible to use multiple soundcards at the same time."

Liar. I have three sound devices on my system right now. Logitech headset for gaming, onboard AC97 for gaming sounds, and SB Audigy for music. They all work fine. Do you think the millions of people on Earth who are gaming with USB headsets while listening to game sounds come out of their 5.1 system are all part of an elaborate hoax?

Like the typical Lunix freetard, you make shit up about an operating system you've never even seen the box for, let alone used.

anonymous freetard said:
"I am totally wondering all the comments here about linux audio. It just works. Pulseaudio, let it develop and let's see when it is mature."

Yeah, Linux audio "Just Works" eh? It seems you disagree with Lennart Poettering, one of the guys who fracking wrote PulseAudio and works for Redhat. Why the hell is your opinion better than his?

Darren said...

I think that X should be responsible for audio as well as graphics.

I don't know about OSX, but Windows already gets this right too. It's kind of nice to be able to log in remotely and get your alert sounds coming to you instead of in the dark, locked rack in the next city over.

Anonymous said...

Liar. I have three sound devices on my system right now. Logitech headset for gaming, onboard AC97 for gaming sounds, and SB Audigy for music. They all work fine.

You are correct, if the application supports it. Most don't allow the configuration of specific sound cards, relying on Windows default. I have never come across a Linux multimedia application that didn't allow you to configure the output device to use.

source...
http://forums.techgage.com/showthread.php?t=1596
However, if you want a certain program to use a certain sound solution other than the default, you can't use Windows to set this up. Rather, the particular program you want to adjust must give you the option of selecting your sound solution.

Obviously, since you use various, the applications offer this ability. For those that don't, I guess the original post was not really a liar was he, just incomplete knowledge.

We do know that liar, freetard and a few swear words dramatically helped you refute his post, you da man!

Anonymous said...

All my sound works in Linux but I can't have multiple applications using sound at the same time. So if I play a game then I can't also listen to music. If I browse the web and there is a flash animation with sound then I can't use any other application with audio.

Anonymous said...

listening from the bedroom, to some music CD or ogg file playing on the living room's pc (with a second networked diskless or embedded machine, of course)

Isn't that what streaming is for? I mean, you've got to have a computer running the OS to turn the packet data into audio anyway...

And in this case wouldn't it be better to share the hard drive and browse it with the client, or have a completely separate Network Attached Storage box with your music on it?

Anonymous said...

Audio streaming. Ditch the extra computer.
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/fm-transmitters/fm-transmitter.aspx

No affiliation, with them at all. For the geek in you, you can take it apart, increase the power. It covers my lot (acre) to listen to streaming music while I cut the grass, etc.

Vektuz said...

Sound on linux is one of those things that still feels like its 1992.

Along with debugging, multimonitor, and many other parts.

Anonymous said...

Other then some sound issues Linux works great for me. So fuck you all!

Bob said...

I'm right fucking with you on this one...ALSA "worksforme" just FINE...WHY mess with something that WORKS?!?

AHHHHHH!!!! I'm slowly being driven back to Windows...hell, I'm so drunk, I might just reformat right now. FUCK YOU ALL.

.net jerkface said...

If you want to use two sound sources at once then just use an mp3 player.

If you want dual monitors then just use two computers.

If you want games then just plug an xbox 360 to your monitor.

If your printer doesn't work with linux then just buy one that does.

If you want to run a windows app
just run windows in a vm window.

Or you can just run windows and not deal with this silly bullshit. Linux already had its chance at the desktop, don't be the last person to realize this.

The Caffeinated Admin said...

FOSS has many standout projects that are used as examples of what a community can do but they are the exception rather than the rule. The company I work for has over 150 LAMP servers and they work well for what they are designed to do. In the end, we do not save anything costwise due to support contracts we pay to Red Hat, MySQL and Zend (PHP).

The Freetards will jump on this post and call me "dumb" for paying for "free" software. As the old cliche goes, "There is no free lunch." While we could run Fedora, an unsupported build of MySQL, and plain ole PHP5, the risk is unacceptable. When a MySQL DB or unofficial RPM package goes haywire, posting on community message boards is not an option. The execs from other departments demand an engineer or developer on the phone or onsite to look into the issue. Waiting around for an answer that may or may not come while the company loses five figures an hours is not tolerated. Sure we have contributed our share of bug reports and occasional code in the spirit of FOSS but its often not worth the time or trouble.

The above is an example of what it is like to work with well supported (F)OSS. In other words, not much different that close source commercial software.

Based on our observations, 99% of the FOSS out there are poorly coded, half-baked, unneeded duplicate, or flat out junk. When tasked with looking into enterprise IM solutions, the FOSS boosters immediatly tossed in Jabber because "it free" and "highly customizable." Of course the problem is the people who could custom code were the very people the company could least afford to give the time. Various modules needed for AD integration, 3rd party IM connectivity, centrally managed client, and policy management came from a half dozen sources each with a conf file. Documentation ran the gamut from poor to "no good engrish." Then the usual dependency issues and hack to work around errors. Each desktop client had about 65% of the features needed with awful to nonexistant security.

In the end what did the company do? Implement Microsoft Office Communication Server 2007. The servers were up and running in 3 hours. By the end of the day we were hooked into AIM, MSN Live, and Yahoo Messenger. The client was pushed out via GPO overnight. As each person walked in, they had a nice preprepared pamphlet from Microsoft showing them how to use the new IM system sitting on their keyboard. People loved the tight integration with Outlook, and Sharepoint.

The admins were able to update everyone's contact lists on the fly. Heck HR once got miffed when someone to be fired in the afternoon disappeared too quickly from the IM servers. Features were enabled and disabled based on business need with the click of the mouse.

In the end, the business calculated that we actually saved money due to the fast implementation, low training costs, and low ongoing maintenance required. Plus we know the software be supported for years to come.

craig matthews said...

@anonymous freetard defender:

"And, on windows, it is not possible to use multiple soundcards at the same time."

That's what he typed. It's a lie.

Anonymous said...

In Linux your music collection will sound like this:

http://www.musicuploader.org/MUSIC/5025401223103588.mp3

Gay! LOL

Anonymous said...

Linux FAILS on the netbook fronts:

"Linux netbooks are returned 4 times as often as ones that run Windows
XP."

source:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-wind-coming-to-major-retailer-new-models-coming-soon

thecodewitch said...

Shut the fuck up everybody!!! I've got something important to say!!!

I have finally seen the light. I don't understand how it happened, but I know that I have just read my millionth (1,000,000) linux advocacy post, and I just felt some part of my brain die.

Its a sort of a warm and pleasant feeling.

I now have a strong urge to tell you all that you MUST INSTALL LINUX, RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!

Sorry, I can't control it...

I am compelled to to format my hard disk, which currently houses a functional WinXP based system, and install Mandriva, followed by Ubuntu in 2 weeks time, followed by Gentoo in about 6 weeks time. I don't want this to happen to anybody else. For the love of all that is pure and good, and to protect yourselves, while you're flaming, flame harder than ever to protect yourself from the harmful death rays the linux users emit.

That is all. For now.

antifundies said...

@thecodewitch

What could possibly go wrong?

Anonymous said...

WTF!!
I've never had any need for OSS or Pulseaudio, or any of the Soundservers.


You may not realise it, but every time you view Flash, you're using OSS. Or at the least, ALSA's OSS emulation layer.


And, on windows, it is not possible to use multiple soundcards at the same time.

Yes, it is actually. I actually make my mixing/scratching software output to two separate soundcards when I'm DJ'ing. First two decks go to the external soundcard, which in turn outputs to the PA, and a third outputs to the onboard card, which outputs to headphones.

I am totally wondering all the comments here about linux audio. It just works.

You're one of the lucky ones, I guess. I never had any serious problems with ALSA. I never liked that I had to rebuild the kernel to get ALSA to work to begin with mind you, and I never liked that it replaced OSS, which is the unified UNIX sound standard.


Pulseaudio, let it develop and let's see when it is mature.

PulseAudio is just generally an unnecessary idea. The network transperency has no place inside the audio subsystem. The audio stack is for audio. It's supposed to provide a bridge between the kernel and driver interface and between the driver interface and the application layer. Networking belongs in the network stack.

Why exactlyu does Linux feel the need to have, on top of a network stack, both a graphics layer and an audio layer with their own network stacks?

Windows and OS X both provide the ability to forward local speaker output to the remote client without bloating up their audio subsystems with unnecessary, extra network stacks, so I don't get why it's necessary for PulseAudio to.

Further PA was packaged in distributions long, long before it was ready. 70% ALSA compatibility is not ready for every day use. LSB including only that 70% into the standard base is short sighted and hurts LSB's credibility: It gives PA no incentive to shoot for 100% compatibility, and what happens once all these audio apps are targeting only the 70% of ALSA covered by PA, and PA finally implements 100% compatibility? You've effectively got a broken standard, that's what.

Then there's JACKd,Which LSB or not, will, as long as it exists, compete with PA, on the basis that there's a lot of overhead in PA, and it's unfriendly to audio recording, which is the whole premise of JACKd: an ultra low latency audio connection kit. It's not as if you can put PA on top of JACKd and call it a day, since the overhead of PA cancels out any benefit of using JACKd.

So the LSB 'blesses' PA, and leaves jackd out in the cold. Congratulations, you've alienated pro audio.

So the LSB 'blesses' both Jack and Alsa. Congatulations, you've alienated Pro audio and everyone else with having two sound systems, and breaking the whole premise of LSB.

It's a lose lose situation.

DirectSound/ASIO (Windows) and CoreAudio/ASIO (Macintosh) provide both desktop and pro audio capable sound systems in one, why can't Linux? PA on it's own isn't the answer, neither is Jack on it's own, nor is both together.

Anonymous said...

Isn't that what streaming is for? I mean, you've got to have a computer running the OS to turn the packet data into audio anyway...

some time ago, i saw companies (at least some here in italy) manufactoring electrical home appliances enter the "home automation" market, with a series of components for lighting/heating/AC remote control, and also home audio distribution -
and now, for one moment i imagined the typical geek drooling at the idea of doing that sort of stuff using only linux and a bunch of compact linux - dedicated ( preferably non x86) machines / boards ...

And in this case wouldn't it be better to share the hard drive and browse it with the client, or have a completely separate Network Attached Storage box with your music on it?

of course it would be ;-)

but it would lack the "coolness factor" that a foss addicted geek looks for the most - and it would need a monitor, keyboard and or mouse wherever you place your client machine... having them in the bathroom to be able to select one's favourite mp3s while sitting on the john may be inconvenient for some
the linux geek instead would just need his audio terminal ARM reference board, and a speaker, and he'd happily listen to his playlist of ogg files while producing the turd of the day -
and if you are asking yourself
Q - how will he change track?
A - he won't;
Q - wouldnt he be better off with a personal ipod and a good speakerset?
A - of course not, "ipod is by apple and must be avoided" (sic)
Q - but why not another player or even a linux configured UMPC then?
A - "linux has that wonderful thing that is a networkable audio system, it would be a shame not to take advantage of it" (sic)

thecodewitch said...

Holy stinking fuck I hate linux.

I just installed linux on my toaster, and the thing keeps spitting out my bread before its toasted.

I posted to some forums about it, and some lusers keep telling me "why do you need toast anyway" and "have you tried stallman's new doughy dogshit pizza base recipe? Its way better than warm toasted bread, you just need to pick the wet dogshit chunks off it, and it tastes just as good as proprietary bread, except this one is free!"

Anonymous said...

Why do you hate Linux?
It is clearly better!
It got the power of the community and open source, and soon it will take over.
Because the source is open, Linux is developers heaven, with the best development tools, best documentation, and best community.
The community of users is friendly and helpful, and are always happy to help a former Windows user with his problem.
Even this blog, Googles' servers, and the top 500 supercomputers run on Linux, so it's clearly superior.
You seem to ignore the multitude of distributions and work environments, a fact the foster competition and drives everyone to excellence. If you have a problem with one distribution, you can always switch to another! That's the power of community!
Also, open bugzillas means that problems are always solved faster than propriety solution! That's because there' always eager developers, much better that the M$ shills, that are quick to fix them! That the power of community!

You all obviously know jack shit! You wish you were smart enough to run Linux, but you can't. That's probably because you're stupid, since Linux is both easier to use, and got better applications than Windows! That's the power of community!

Now go run back to you Windows machines, sheeple!

The Linux community conquers all!

thecodewitch said...

Hey guys, I spoke to morpheus earlier today, and he totally thinks I'm the one.

I always knew I was way more awesome than anyone else, because I always run linux while everyone else is running windows. Later on, I'm going to shoot up a lobby full of windows users. Then when I get to the ceiling, I'm going to use my open source skillz to totally hack up the code for the open source helicopter that is parked there so I can fly it. All those wintards are so oblivious.

Anonymous said...

Fuck you wintards!
Everything works 100% better on Linux, except stuff the average user doesn't really need anyway!

Anonymous said...

Fuck you freetards!
Everything works 100% better on DOS, except stuff the average user really need anyway!

Anonymous said...

Here in BSD land the applications use OSS, which been around since 1992.

Of course JACK, PulseAudio, and Linux Alsa can be found in ports but they are completely optional.

Yeah, I guess you can argue that outside the minimal user-base tools, FreeBSD has the same crappy free software. But I'll argue that the software here is more stable and won't randomly crash on me.

For example: Firefox used to just randomly crash and close in the middle of browsing without any error message. Countless other applications and games frequently did the same exact thing.

I will admit that compiling ports, while very simple, is just darn right time consuming. Packages exist for most ports but are only updated once every few months or so.

PBI packages exist too but I only like the concept for applications not in the ports tree.

Anonymous said...

@.net Jerkface

If you want to use two sound sources at once then just use an mp3 player.

If you want dual monitors then just use two computers.

If you want games then just plug an xbox 360 to your monitor.

If your printer doesn't work with linux then just buy one that does.

If you want to run a windows app
just run windows in a vm window.

Or you can just run windows and not deal with this silly bullshit. Linux already had its chance at the desktop, don't be the last person to realize this.


Gold! I've been saying the same thing, but the Zealots just block it out.

-derChef

Anonymous said...

What about people who run Linux and have no fucking problems? I know amazing right, but I am one of these people.

Okay, we get it, Linux is not for you. Can you shut the fuck up already?

Anonymous said...

Okay, as long as we don't see a
"Just use Linux!"
"X reasons why you must use Linux"
"Distro XX flavor of the month / alpha/ beta/ rc is out!"
"Compiz on youTube!"

And the rest of the spam the Linux propaganda machine spews.
Can you clean the internet? Will Linux pundits finally stop pushing their crap just about anywhere?
No?

Anonymous said...

What about people who run Linux and have no fucking problems?

I guess it's possible. For some of the 0.91%, at least.

Okay, we get it, Linux is not for you. Can you shut the fuck up already?

Sure. As soon as you freetards stop spamming us with your superior OS.

Anonymous said...

Huh? Linux is superior. Yeah, cry more.

Anonymous said...

"Just use Linux!"

Just use Linux!


"X reasons why you must use Linux"


1) It rules.
2) Windows Vista sucks!
...
X) Profit.

"Distro XX flavor of the month / alpha/ beta/ rc is out!"

Well what do you know, Ubuntu 8.10 beta is out, and so is Fedora 9 beta!!

"Compiz on youTube!"

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxfSwzhSn1c

LINUX POWER!

Children, gather round! No retreat, no surrender; that is GNU law. And by GNU law we will stand and fight... and die. A new age has begun. An age of freedom!!!!!!

AND ALL WILL KNOW, THAT 300 FREETARDS GAVE THEIR LAST BREATH TO DEFEND IT!

FOR FREE SOFTWARE! STRENGTH AND HONOR!

williamg said...

Amen. I will tell you what I have gone back to Windows since I started reading this blog and I had forgotten how easy it is. Truly, no compiling, no ndiswrapper, no shortcuts everything just works as it should. My audio card works.

Vista ROCKS and I havent been happier.

Anonymous said...

Linux continues to be the biggest joke in computer software industry. A confirmation of this can be found in several events of the recent past.

Lenovo stopped selling Linux desktops and notebooks on its web site. If you are a big government or something, Lenovo will still accept "huge(!) orders for thousands of Linux machines" through salesmen, but if you are an individual consumer, you are out of luck. No Linux for you from Lenovo. Yeah, they claim to certify their machines for Linux, but who knows, right? In any case, that kind of a thing is meant for the Linux Loons who have no life and consequently have an enormous amount of time at their disposal. It's not meant to convert the current Windows users over to the wretched Linux system.

You notice the same pattern with Dell. Dell would sell the Linux Loons their Ubuntu boxes, but refuses to advertise the said Ubuntu boxes to its regular customers. Looks like it doesn't want to upset its Windows customers.

HP offered Linux machines for sale in Australia, but *refuses* to offer them in the States. It clearly doesn't think it will sell very many. May be the Australian "sales" (or lack thereof) convinced it of that.

Loons made big noise about the gOS machines in Walmart, but Walmart has kicked them off its shelves in short order. Linux is not what Walmart's customers are looking for. Linux had a decent run on the ASUS EEE's, but as soon as EEE started coming with XP, Linux's fortunes have taken a nose dive. So much so, ASUS itself is slowly kicking it off its machines.

MSI's research shows that Linux netbooks are returned 4 times as much as XP netbooks are. The fact that Linux is a ridiculous operating system that is not adequate for even the most basic of desktop tasks is behind these returns.

Linux was once again given a chance to please, excite and entertain its users, but it once again managed to disgust them.

Anonymous said...

Dell just expanded it's Ubuntu offering brotha.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=938184

I don't give a shit if few OEMs support Linux. As long as I don't have to go through hoops to buy a machine preinstalled with it, I am happy. The situation is much better then it was 2-3 years ago.

It's been a good year to be a Linux enthusiast, that's for sure.

Manan said...

Linux is immune to Antivirus. LOL! Gem of a statement.

Anonymous said...

@vektuz

//Sound on linux is one of those things that still feels like its 1992.//

"one" ... out of about 200. OOO, any desktop app.

Linux for servers. Windows for desktops. Freetards never learn.

Anonymous said...

No..

It's Mac OS X for desktop, Linux for server, and Windows for Solitaire.

Really, both Windows and Linux suck ass as a desktop. Mac OS X is where it is at.

Anonymous said...

[i]LH is obviously lying. Think about it. The SOURCE CODE IS THERE and OPEN TO EVERYONE. If the end user happens to have trouble with PulseAudio, he can just debug out of his problems.[/i]

Best quote ever!

Anonymous said...

I can stream audio into any room in my house without streaming or or networkable sound layers. I bought a very advanced sound system that allows me to run a knob to adjust the volume of the output. It's awesome. I can seamlessly share music. Say my neighbor wants to hear that awesome song that just came out; well, I just turn the knob up all the way and now I'm sharing music instantly with everyone. They don't even have to buy anything either.

Anonymous said...

It's been some time that I monitor this blog.

And honestly this last post made me happy :>, because for a long period of time there was no new content.

Anywho, to the point.
I'm glad that LH doesn't say what OS is better, but rather what OS sucks. Though it's an easy answer.
I'm also glad that LH supplies us with pure facts (unlike many commenters here).

So please, stop trolling in the comments with your ubber 1337 OS.

Rock on LH.

Anonymous said...

Mac OS X is where it is at.

Apple hardware? No thank you, deal breaker. OS X, unlike Linux, is a fine UNIX desktop, but hugely overrated anyway.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad that LH doesn't say what OS is better, but rather what OS sucks. Though it's an easy answer.

When you look hard enough all OS's suck. Especially the ones that people have turned into a religion.

Anonymous said...

@October 4, 2008 4:27 PM

Apple hardware is the best, just like Apple software. You are a cheap ass or poor pleb who can't afford a superior Apple computer. Sucks to be you!

POSTED ON SAFARI BITCHES

Anonymous said...


Apple hardware is the best

Its the same cheap hardware in every other laptop. Look up the 6bit displays apple puts lying to customers about 16.7million colors. Look up the crappy heatsinks installed in almost all v1.0 apple hardware. Look up the overpriced ram.


In short, we need more idiots like you who buy any shit from apple blindly. I say its a good time to invest in apple, like Microsoft did, when they threw some cash at apple to 'bail them out'.

Anonymous said...

You get what you pay for dumbass freetard. Apple hardware is of the best quality. PERIOD!!

Anonymous said...

http://www.apple.com/getamac/

^ The above link is probably going to be the best thing you happen to your feeble freetard life.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing special or amazing about Apple hardware. It's the same shit you find in any other quality PC. Apple has, like many companies, released PCs with faulty hardware.

Personally, I love some of Apple's products like the MacBook Air. No removable battery FTW! And why doesn't it have a removable battery? Because Steve Jobs doesn't like seams. That's a pretty fucking lame reason.

Anonymous said...

Linux is embarrassing. I've been hearing how it's going to "take over" for 15 years now. Not gonna happen. It's a server OS, nothing more.

Anonymous said...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxfSwzhSn1c

Here is a video of my "server" OS.

Dumbass.

Anonymous said...

lol.. when you cant run any real applications, you have to make youtube videos with some irrelevant shit. sound is a mess, little to no modern dev tools, video is a mess. need a new os to upgrade your browser.. its a fucking joke.

Anonymous said...

That's the third time some freedard posts a compiz video.

A. Apple had effects for almost a decade - and it can be run in software mode as well.

B. Vista have compositing layer for a year and half now.

C. Linux compositing layer is a hack, that after 4 years of development, is still unstable, and doesn't work well with full-screen 3d apps, video, and Firefox (The scrolling becomes unbearably slow).

Compiz sucks, Linux sucks, freetards, well, wish they could suck since it could have approximated sex lives.

Anonymous said...

ok i'm with LH with this PulseAudio rant



IT SUCKS

Anonymous said...

Linux is a brothel where all the prostitues have AIDS

Anonymous said...

The "Golden Age" of Linux on the desktop has come and gone already. OEMs are dropping it like a hot potato (Dell, Lenovo, Wal-Mart) because the customer demand was so low and the support costs were so high. Windows has tightened up its game considerably since the crash-an-hour days of Win95. End users are increasingly expecting sophisticated A/V features to "just work" - they want sound, they want DVD playback, they want media centers, they want Flash, they want multiple monitors, they want sophisticated 3D games, they want iTunes and Blackberry integration, they want wireless - none of which is easy or available on Linux.

It's amazing that Linux has made so little progress in the last decade. Apple's OS progress collapsed so badly in the late 90s that the company almost went under. MS's latest OS is several years late, missing almost all of its promised new features, and rather badly received. And Linux still can't break 1% on the desktop.

And it's only going to get worse over time, as MS and Apple pull away from Linux with new features and new architectures and Linux is stuck in the 1980s. The 2010s will be here before you know it, and Linux will still be running X as its main graphical system. The explosion of different distributions and the fragile webs of version dependencies to make things work (remember when we all used to make fun of Windows for DLL Hell? Those were good times) will mean that Linux will get less stable, less usable, and harder to develop for as time goes on.

I think we're going to see hardware manufacturers scaling down their driver support for Linux. Why should Nvidia or ATI or Creative put the resources into writing hardware drivers for an OS with a minuscule (and declining) market share and a dim future? So new video cards will get their Linux drivers months late, unoptimized, and full of bugs - when they get released at all. And I won't even go into the impossibility of developing shrinkwrap software for Linux.

Desktop Linux is making its way to same graveyard that GeOS, OS/2, and AmigaOS currently dwell in. It'll never completely disappear, because of its free nature, but its presence will soon dwindle down to next to nothing.

Anonymous said...

Wobbly windows.

Now that's the real deal, and the sign that leads us right into The Year of the Linux Desktop. Again.

Anonymous said...

FOSS greatest achievement:
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

How appropriate.

FOSS had 6 years of almost no competition, and still hasn't managed to muster the basics.

Anonymous said...

@October 4, 2008 6:47 PM

Recently I purchased my first Apple product. I bought some Apple stock. For the last month or so, Apple hasn't been a good investment. I traded at 130, 117, 105, and 100. Ive lost a bundle of money in the last two weeks on Apple. Another 5% on the totally unsubstantiated rumor of Steve Jobs death on Friday.

Now that I am totally capitulated on the stock... I will wait it out and recover my investment, but Id rather be in Microsoft... But it looks like Apple is headed down to pre-iPhone hype levels of 40-$50 a share.

Oh well...

Also, I rather like Vista. One of the big features of Vista, is its half life seems even better than XP's own legendary half life.

Anonymous said...

Freetard writes:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxfSwzhSn1c
Here is a video of my "server" OS.
Dumbass.


I was seriously laughing out loud at this. Why? This is the second video I've seen that's "Check out what my Linux can do!!

Jiggly fucking windows. Wow!

You had a chat client, a web browser, a knockoff office suite, and a video playing. The system seemed to bog down a lot.

You should come over and see what a Windows or Mac machine can do. Instead of making the windows jiggle while masturbating, you'll find people actually composing useful documents in the office suite, actually surfing the net and being able to use Flash, and actually use real applications to do real work that pays real money: video editing, graphic / photo editing (Gimp doesn't fucking count), using CAD, programming PLCs, data loggers, etc.

And of course at the end of the day, PC and Mac users will upgrade Firefox without having to upgrade the OS or recompile the kernel.

Anonymous said...

Look up the overpriced ram.

Macs use the same DDR2 RAM your Compaq does.

And the Mac Pro is not the same as every run-of-the-mill desktop PC from Wal-Mart, it's a high-end workstation. It runs dual quad-core Intel Xeon processors by default, and comes loaded with an OS that can take full advantage of this.

And the price is still competitive. If you build up a Mac Pro and a Dell Precision T7400 to the same spec, they're about the same price.

The only time Apple really gouges the price is when you upgrade the computer when you order it. However they use commodity hardware (PCIe 2.0, DDR2 RAM, SATA...), so you can easily do it yourself.

Anonymous said...

Apples makes sure that upgrading the peripherals is not trivial.

OTOH, it became a Mac vs, PC argument, which I find to be funny.
Even on a LINUX_HATERS_BLOG, Linux is no longer a topic.

LinkMaster03 said...

And if sound got broken on Winblows or Mac, nobody could do fuck shit about it until next month when Microshit or Crapple releases an update!

>Holy crap, this comment is the best ever:

>If the end user happens to have trouble >with PulseAudio, he can just debug out >of his problems.

>Linux takes over the desktop, '08! >That's a totally effective solution to >people trying to port games to Linux, or >audio apps, or even just get shit done >on the desktop.

antifundies said...

@linkmaster03 the sheep

"And if sound got broken on Winblows or Mac, nobody could do fuck shit about it until next month when Microshit or Crapple releases an update!"

Sorry to burst your bubble but Windows and MacOS X aren't "community tested" like Linucks.

Anonymous said...

The "Golden Age" of Linux on the desktop has come and gone already. OEMs are dropping it like a hot potato (Dell, Lenovo, Wal-Mart) because the customer demand was so low and the support costs were so high. Windows has tightened up its game considerably since the crash-an-hour days of Win95. End users are increasingly expecting sophisticated A/V features to "just work" - they want sound, they want DVD playback, they want media centers, they want Flash, they want multiple monitors, they want sophisticated 3D games, they want iTunes and Blackberry integration, they want wireless - none of which is easy or available on Linux.

Wal-Mart still sells the Linux Everex gPC2 and Acer Aspire machines. Dell is still selling Ubuntu machines with five in the lineup now.

I won't argue with the fact that more people are returning Linux PCs. I read some reviews of the Everex PC on Wal-mart.com. Many people were displeased simply because they could not install Windows Live Messenger or the crappy photo-touching software that comes with some printers.

No amount of OS improvement will change the fact Linux cannot and will not be able to access Windows applications as seamlessly as Windows.

Linux should instead focus on improving OS architecture and drivers to match that of the *BSD and Solaris worlds.

I think we're going to see hardware manufacturers scaling down their driver support for Linux. Why should Nvidia or ATI or Creative put the resources into writing hardware drivers for an OS with a minuscule (and declining) market share and a dim future? So new video cards will get their Linux drivers months late, unoptimized, and full of bugs - when they get released at all. And I won't even go into the impossibility of developing shrinkwrap software for Linux.

ATI has released low-level hardware documentation for most of their newer video cards. Xorg developers are on their way to writing decent Radeon drivers with the help of ATI as well. Intel is an active contributor to open source driver development and a major contributor to Xorg as well.

On the contrary, now that OpenGL 3.0 failed everyones' expectations by not delivering the promised new API, Nvidia won't have to alter their OpenGL accelerated Unix drivers much to support OpenGL 3.0. This means fairly easy Unix driver support going forward.

BTW, Nvidia also supports FreeBSD and Solaris on the desktop and workstation too. Their desktop and workstation marketshare is even less than Linux.

Desktop Linux is making its way to same graveyard that GeOS, OS/2, and AmigaOS currently dwell in. It'll never completely disappear, because of its free nature, but its presence will soon dwindle down to next to nothing.

Not when 350+ distributions are all fighting for a piece of the niche market. When the number of active distributions fall to half-dozen then we can officially proclaim Linux as dead.

Nevertheless, I seriously think that few of the problems with Linux will ever be solved. I propose that we abandon it for PC-BSD/FreeBSD or OpenSolaris.

Heres why:

1) Sane development by one entity on the same page.

2) Stable application and driver interfaces (ABI/APIs).

3) Higher-quality kernel drivers.

4) No operating system religion.

5) PBI install system with no dependency checking shit (PC-BSD).

6) Upgrade software without an OS upgrade.

7) Superior centralized documentation.

8) One audio API standard: Open Sound System.

9) Unlikely to to break stuff following an upgrade procedure.

10) Far fewer distributions. All the BSD forks and OpenSolaris distributions combined add up to about two-dozen; compare that to 350+ active Linux distributions.

I personally endorse PC-BSD, which is FreeBSD. The only difference is it includes KDE, PBI system in addition to ports, and FreeBSD-compatible GUI configuration tools and auto configuration scripts.

Another sought after advantage found in PC-BSD (besides the PBI package system) is the simple fact that only ONE desktop environment is officially supported. The PC-BSD GUI tools are written with QT but most are also tightly integrated with the KDE control panel. It is obviously possible to install Gnome or Xfce in PC-BSD because it is 100% FreeBSD underneath; however, few if any of the PC-BSD-specific tools will work.

LinkMaster03 said...

@antifundies

"Sorry to burst your bubble but Windows and MacOS X aren't "community tested" like Linucks."

That's exactly my point.

Anonymous said...

HW mixing works best (I have an Audigy)

Kernel needs to specify the app interface (even when userspace mixing is used), and there is no perfect one right now.

Anonymous said...

Nevertheless, I seriously think that few of the problems with Linux will ever be solved. I propose that we abandon it for PC-BSD/FreeBSD or OpenSolaris.

These are sane systems, but they are not meant for desktop computing either. You still got X, you still got KDE/whatever above it, and these aren't designed nor developed by the maker of the OS either. It's not a realistic solution.

Anonymous said...

Didn't any of you watch that video? With Linux you can move windows around on your desktop with your mouse and switch between virtual desktops! You can open up applications! You apply really ugly themes! Linux truly is the future! Maybe you were too busy working to notice.

Anonymous said...

The Holy Grail of Linux Usability, the one major feature that will release us all from the clutches of the Evil Microsft!

COMPIZ!!

Is a copy of 2003 circa Longhorn

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X0idaN0MY1U&feature=related

Now all you Linux whiners, that still actually believe FOSS was ever capable of independent innovation:
Watch. Watch again, if you must. Watch a third time.
Then forever shut your mouth.

LinkMaster03 said...

@anonymous

Didn't any of you watch that video? With Linux you can move windows around on your desktop with your mouse and switch between virtual desktops! You can open up applications! You apply really ugly themes! Linux truly is the future! Maybe you were too busy working to notice.

Ugly themes? Take a look at kde-look.org and gnome-look.org.

Wait, you can only use 2 themes in Winblows? Oh yeah, classic and the normal. If you want to come close to using another theme, you have to download a program. Let's install that. Hold on for a couple minutes, now I have to reboot. Wait, it has no themes. You have to download a theme. Hold on, it's only a trial? There's limited functionality? Let me get a pirated version. I found one. OK, let me apply this theme. WTF? The program installed advertising crap on the computer. Let's reboot again to apply the theme. Wait, where's the theme? Oh, I have to start up the program every time I boot Winblows to use the theme. Why did my computer just pop up with 50 porn windows? It just rebooted? I got a virus from the pirated software!! Now someone has all of my passwords! NO!!! Let me run a virus scan. Hold on, I have to boot into Safe Mode. I'll leave this on overnight while it scans. *wakes up after the night* Ok, it found something. Let me remove that. Good, the virus is cleaned. I'll boot into normal mode. What the heck? The program is uninstalled and my theme is back to normal. Oh well.

That aside, "you were too busy working". Then you talk about Linux' ugly themes. You must not be that busy working to be staring at your theme. To be able to immerse yourself in work, you have to be assured that your minimize button will glow a rainbow when hovered over, and look like a glossy marble?

I don't think Winblows has virtual desktops. No, it doesn't. If you don't like them on Linux, don't use them. But they can be useful in a dual monitor setup.

Anonymous said...

@linkmaster03

//And if sound got broken on Winblows or Mac, nobody could do fuck shit about it until next month when Microshit or Crapple releases an update!//

Um, except that's never happened. Sound only breaks on Windows because of bad drivers from the hardware manufacturer, not because of an inherent flaw in the OS.

And I've never seen sound break on a Mac.

You're beyond stupid.

Anonymous said...

"Wait, you can only use 2 themes in Winblows? Oh yeah, classic and the normal. If you want to come close to using another theme, you have to download a program. Let's install that. Hold on for a couple minutes, now I have to reboot. Wait, it has no themes. You have to download a theme. Hold on, it's only a trial? There's limited functionality? Let me get a pirated version. I found one. OK, let me apply this theme. WTF? The program installed advertising crap on the computer. Let's reboot again to apply the theme. Wait, where's the theme? Oh, I have to start up the program every time I boot Winblows to use the theme. Why did my computer just pop up with 50 porn windows? It just rebooted? I got a virus from the pirated software!! Now someone has all of my passwords! NO!!! Let me run a virus scan. Hold on, I have to boot into Safe Mode. I'll leave this on overnight while it scans. *wakes up after the night* Ok, it found something. Let me remove that. Good, the virus is cleaned. I'll boot into normal mode. What the heck? The program is uninstalled and my theme is back to normal. Oh well."

Or you could just replace uxtheme.dll or hack it yourself. Oh, I forgot, only Linux users can replace or modify system files. I mean, things like hex editors and resource hacker don't exist for Windows.

As far as third party applications that provide custom theme abilities, they come with themes by default and you do not need to restart to apply new themes. Furthermore they start up automatically by default.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

As a note, I was referring to the specific theme in that particular video.

Anonymous said...

Theme's are nice. They really are.
Now back to your point.
1. you can install VistaGlazz (free), WindowsBlinds (pay), and any if the other options.
They work, they work well, end of story.

2. If you want a bling competition,
than first: you don't have dreamScene equivalent on Linux (actually you do, but it involved the command line and some X tweaking. In short, not accessible).
Second: you can change the transparency and color of aero.
Third: when you change a theme in Linux, you only change the theme for one toolkit, and have to manually change the theme and fonts for other toolkits, including the majort office suit, major browser, and major development environment. In short, it's essentially broken.
Forth: many of the so called themes for Linux are clones of either Aero or Aqua, great choices.

Now, when faced with the choice between mostly consistent, not very themeable interface, to mostly inconsistent, broken, yet themeable interface, I guess I'll go with the first choice.
You, of course, are more than free to experiment with the elasticity of your anus.

LinkMaster03 said...

No use arguing with Winfags. They just don't get it. I did use to use Winblows, then I wanted an OS that didn't crash every day.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad that LH doesn't say what OS is better, but rather what OS sucks. Though it's an easy answer.

When you look hard enough all OS's suck. Especially the ones that people have turned into a religion.


Thanks you for sharpening my point :>

Anonymous said...

No use arguing with Winfags. They just don't get it. I did use to use Winblows, then I wanted an OS that didn't crash every day.

So you went back to DOS?

LinkMaster03 said...

So you went back to DOS?

Who's ass did you pull that out of? No, I went to Linux.

Anonymous said...

Who's ass did you pull that out of? No, I went to Linux.

A black console anyway :P

On a more serious note, have you ever used a modern Windows, based on NT? Because if that is the case, and you still claim that Windows crashes every day, you're full of shit.

LinkMaster03 said...


On a more serious note, have you ever used a modern Windows, based on NT? Because if that is the case, and you still claim that Windows crashes every day, you're full of shit.


Yep, used to use XP and Pissta.

Anonymous said...

http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/10/05/123253.shtml

I rest my case (on my lap)

Anonymous said...

If you box was crashing everyday it was probably something stupid you were doing or because you were too stupid to figure out why.

Your in the same league as that dumbfuck who was claiming his IT department made people reboot because of firewall changes and that they held multiple patch sessions each day everyday. I find the later ironic since several Linux distros not only have more patches than Vista but more patches that require a reboot. I think its time to drop that weak argument completely.

silix said...

(HW mixing works best (I have an Audigy)

of course
but the author of PulseAudio thinks that "hardware mixing is a thing of the past, modern soundcards don't do it anymore" ( http://0pointer.de/blog ) and then, there would be no meaning in implementing mixing at the kernel audio subsystem level (argument being that mixing is SW based anyway, and the kernel must not be compromised with unnecessary code, hence a sound derver )

and since he appears to be the new linus torvalds ( as far as the audio subsystem is concerned) his opinion is law and alsa and pulseaudio are here to stay - and your audigy is going to be forever underutilized , i'm afraid :-(

Kernel needs to specify the app interface (even when userspace mixing is used), and there is no perfect one right now.

of course, and a good design would take into account a range of devices with a reasonable probability of actual presence and market recognition (as is the case for creative sound cards) and then provide an abstraction for low end as well as more feature rich devices
hacking away with just the lowest common denominator in mind is naive, and the opposite of good design ( but it's been already proven by now, FOSS is anti-design for the most part)

Nevertheless, I seriously think that few of the problems with Linux will ever be solved.

i agree, some of the problems with linux come out of fundamentally flawed mentality and approach to solving problems - and those cannot be changed easily

I propose that we abandon it for PC-BSD/FreeBSD or OpenSolaris.

i propose a mass migration to haiku ;-)
haiku-os isnt as mature as linux and bsd atm, but looks very promising and -it seems- quickly evolving ... but above all, it's focused on the desktop

These are sane systems, but they are not meant for desktop computing either. You still got X, you still got KDE/whatever above it...

the problem with X lies in the fundamentally wrong subdivision of labour it does
- rendering of graphic primitives and text does not belong in the server nowadays (not at a time toolkits are striving to migrate away from plain x11 to other rendering systems - creating another "layer jungle" in the graphic department, btw )
- nor does doing privileged operations with the actual graphic hardware, that compete to the kernel or can safely be put in a library for use by any application
- with cairo-on-opengl, or possibly (even better ) openVG on openGL, that is without server based rendering, pretty much of the X protocol with its many so called "extensions", is unnecessary and can be safely relegated to a separated, optional, legacy application - supportive service
- moves the mouse pointer, and performs pick correlation on windows of which it holds a tree: but since the window compositor /manager most likely has that sort of knowledge too, it would be reasonable to consolidate the two
(one would likely argue about the strict mechanism vs policy separation... well that separation could be preserved, via a neat library API, instead of old school process separation)

wait, cleanning up and consolidating, what remains? doesnt the result look a bit (just a bit) like OS X' s gui system?

LinkMaster03 said...

Nope, I have not used one Winblows system without atleast one crash. Even those that aren't mine.

You really ARE the dumbfuck. Absolutely ZERO Linux patches/updates require a reboot except for kernel updates, which are not frequent at all.

Anonymous said...

linkmaster03 is a lying sack of shit.
Usually lies like this works quite well on the linux zombies on slashdot. Dude, has linux caused brain rot?

go back and recompile your kernel or running compiz and move your windows around on multiple desktops. then when ur done, we will look at you in amazement and give you a small round of applause. special needs kids tear me up... :'(

silix said...

by the way, if i'm not mistaken, sw-based audio mixing for multiple processes, is not impossible to implement without resorting to a sound server...
a simple solution could be made of a userspace shared library and a kernel driver, the library being a common backend to audio APIs such as SDL, oss, etc - which, in case HW mixing was not supported, would use posix shared memory to hold impending streams from all client applications and mix them just before calling into the driver

that is, mixing would be performed in the "descent" code path, without the "back to userspace and to kernel again" round trip, saving context switches...

Anonymous said...

in case you haven't noticed hannu is kinda giving up oss
http://4front-tech.com/hannublog

Anonymous said...

These are sane systems, but they are not meant for desktop computing either. You still got X, you still got KDE/whatever above it, and these aren't designed nor developed by the maker of the OS either. It's not a realistic solution.

The advantage to BSD and Solaris aren't the 3rd party FOSS solutions but rather the OS architecture and development methodology.

X11 is universal across all modern Unix and Unix-like OSes with the exception of OS X and some embedded *nix OSes which may use DirectFB instead.

If there are FOSS apps that you despise in Linux then you'll mostly likely despise them on BSD and Solaris as well. You might not hate them as much, however, because they may not crash every ten minutes like they do on Linux.

Anonymous said...

I love how Wintards talk shit about Compiz. The matter of fact is THERE IS NOTHING EVEN COMPARABLE ON WINDOWS. So keep talking shit, that's ALL YOU CAN DO!

And yes Compiz is not just eyecandy (although eyecandy is nice), it also has plugins like Expo or Scale that greatly improve desktop usability.

Anonymous said...

@Vincent

Solaris and BSD is are primitive compared to Linux. True story. Both operating systems are basically dead, Netcraft confirms it.

Anonymous said...

Not frequent? I have to reboot my Ubuntu and Fedora boxes every few weeks after patching. I would recommend that you not make shit up here as you'll find that many of the people here are experienced Linux users. I don't care if you like the platform or not but you should at least be able to acknowledge the facts. You should still be able to criticize the platform you use. Nothing is without fault.

Anonymous said...

People criticize Compiz for basically two reasons: its stability issues and how linux users tend to use it as the basis of OS superiority. Take a look at the three videos that were posted in this thread and look at what they were in response to. It essentially something along these lines: "Linux's sound architecture is fucked up!" "Oh yeah? Well Vista can't do this! [Compiz video link]. Windows sucks!". That's hardly a good way to measure the superiority of an OS. Most of these Compiz videos don't even show off the few real usability enhancements it actually has. No, it's all spinning cubes and window animations. That might has something to do with the usability enhancements that Compiz has are either marginal or useful to small number of users. So really, Compiz isn't all that great. It could be much better and being flashier doesn't make it better.

Anonymous said...

@anon
Here you longhorn pre-alpha, running "compiz" circa 2003:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=X0idaN0MY1U&feature=related

You want expose for Vista? here you go:
http://insentient.net/

You want 3d cube? Here you go again:
http://lifehacker.com/software/virtual-desktops/download-of-the-day-yodm-3d-windows-255448.php

You muppet.

Anonymous said...

I love how Wintards talk shit about Compiz. The matter of fact is THERE IS NOTHING EVEN COMPARABLE ON WINDOWS. So keep talking shit, that's ALL YOU CAN DO!

It would be nice if it worked. No, Aero does not rotate your screen, but it does what it was built to do: being a desktop compositing manager. And it does fucking work.

Who knows, maybe someday Compiz will work too, but I doubt it. Making flashy effects is fun, but making the damn thing work flawlessly like Aero does is hard work. And FOSS hackers stop coding when the fun becomes hard work. It sucks, but that's life.

Anonymous said...

@Wintards:
October 5, 2008 3:00 PM
October 5, 2008 2:59 PM

Um, Compiz works. I don't really have any else to add here.

@Wintard: October 5, 2008 3:00 PM (trigger happy?)
So your response is a primitive tech demo showing nothing useful and a abandoned cube desktop software? Please tell me you aren't serious.

Anonymous said...

@Vincent

Solaris and BSD are primitive compared to Linux. True story. Both operating systems are basically dead, Netcraft confirms it.


OK...

#1: How the hell you know my name? LOL.

#2: Netcraft doesn't confirm anything about OS marketshare. The only thing they monitors as far as marketshare goes is web server software.

I'm well aware of the consumer marketshare that Linux doesn't have either.

#3: If BSD and Solaris are primitive then Linux must be a dilapidated fence post by your metric.

Anonymous said...

"Um, Compiz works. I don't really have any else to add here."

I do: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=h3b&q=compiz+crashes&btnG=Search

Seems like it doesn't work for everybody. Hey, works-for-me ... most of the time.

episode96 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Um, Compiz works. I don't really have any else to add here

Yeah, it works by freetard standards. When "it works" means what the rest of the world think it means, then no, it doesn't fucking work.

Well, if you don't mind having issues with video:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5909703

http://www.susegeek.com/multimedia/enabling-desktop-effectscompiz-fusion-cause-video-playback-issues/

... or browsing the web:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/99740

... or using openGL apps:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/148110

Pathetic. Do you think this is slashdot? Here we don't buy your crap. We've used and we know Linux ourselves, you lusers. Yeah, I know... ItWorksForYou.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone tried KWin 4's composting features?

thecodewitch said...

Compiz is teh awesome, Wintards!!

Stupid wintards. You all fucking suck. Compiz is the final word in uber geekery, with the spinning cubes, and the wibbly wobbly windows, you wintards will never know the joy of feeling like you're in some awesome futuristic fucking johnny mnemonic "I'll take down your board man!" world, where Ice T has a dolphin that uses open source to crack into the Microsoft mainframe, and drops flaming volkswagens on people.

In short, you all suck. I hate you. You're all mean.

Seriously though, KOffice and Kolf are the only applications any reasonable person should ever need. If you need something else, you're probably not a patriot. I you insist on running other apps, I'm going to have to tell Richard Stallman, and get him to write an article about how awful and selfish you are for coercing and psychologically harming your poor computer by making it run apps that you need it to run, and there will be months of articles about your lack of eliteness and inability to see that you're still in the matrix because you aren't an awesome open source contributor, like Eric Raymond.

Anonymous said...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&q=DWM+crashes&btnG=Search

http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=3872583&SiteID=17

http://forums.techarena.in/windows-vista-performance/715561.htm

http://www.vistaheads.com/forums/microsoft-public-windows-vista-performance-maintenance/28180-dwm-exe-frequent-crashes.html

---

As you can see, DWM seems to suffer from a multitude of issues as well. But instead of being like a typical flaming Wintard I will conclude that all software has issues. Yes Compiz has issues, but so does everything else like it.

Thankfully I am "lucky" enough to have no issues with either. But Compiz is a hell of a lot better then Aero.

LinkMaster03 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LinkMaster03 said...

Winfags like to play the Google game.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=windows+blue+screen&btnG=Search

Over 2 million results, huh. And here he is telling me Winblows doesn't crash.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=windows+crash&btnG=Search

Over 1 million results.

http://www.google.com/search?q=bsod&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

Hey look. OVER 3 MILLION results.

Also, why are you bashing Compiz? You guys have nothing on Compiz. All software crashes. But, fact is, Winblows has nothing CLOSE to Compiz.

Anonymous said...

Also, why are you bashing Compiz? You guys have nothing on Compiz. All software crashes. But, fact is, Winblows has nothing CLOSE to Compiz.

Nothing as defective and buggy, I agree.

Anonymous said...

@October 5, 2008 3:55 PM

At one point you needed an Intel or Nvidia GPU to run Compiz. Now though, both AMD and VIA has added support for composing in their drivers. It runs excellent now, and virtually all hardware, even hardware that couldn't run Aero. Sure there are bugs but all software has bugs.

Anonymous said...

Your sentiments towards Compiz have changed. You asserted that Compiz works when its stability was brought into question and now that you've lost that battle you switched your claim to all software has problems. Quit being a douche.

However, the amount of Aero failures over number of total users is far less than the amount of Compiz failures over the number of total users.

Anonymous said...

And really Ubuntu is good distribution. It's not perfect but it's a great operating system overall, and it's very focused on desktop usability and ease of use for new users. You could argue it is the only major distro out there that focuses on this. I think a lot of people here have tried other distros which doesn't have a good user experience.

Another problem people have is installing Linux on certain manufacturers gives bad issues with hardware. That is what I recommend Dell computers. I've installed Linux on many Dell models, never a single issue with hardware. But HP? Forget about it. HP sucks ass even for Windows, they use shoddy parts. I have an HP laptop which XP won't even install properly. Only Vista works. Terrible.

Dell however is great. You can even get Dell machines with Ubuntu preinstalled: http://www.dell.com/ubuntu

So use Ubuntu, and use Dell hardware, and I doubt you'll have much hassles with Ubuntu. Sound, video, networking, should work without much issue.

thecodewitch said...

As a recently lobotomized and viciously loyal linux pissant and supplicant, I would like to give some advice to my fellow linux using peasants about how to convince yonder wintards that they are misguided, and should consider joining our righteous crusade at their earliest convenience.

Tip: Post a google link searching for "windows crash". When a wintard sees this, he/she will think back to the last time he/she saw this in the past decade. Some will remember a problem with a buggy version of an NVidia graphics driver, while others will recall some faulty RAM chips that cause weird crashes. When they realise the immense hypocrisy of a linux dipshit talking about crashes and wasted time, the wintard will become paralysed with rage. Now is the time to sound the horn and call over as many shrieking dotslashers and diggduggers as you can find, and overwhelm this blog with inspiringly stupid pro linux rhetoric, until every last remaining wintard gets lobotomized and joins our cult, just like I did.

thecodewitch said...

Dell however is great. You can even get Dell machines with Ubuntu preinstalled: http://www.dell.com/ubuntu

Hi fellow cult member. What is your designation? I have reached the level of Stallmanic beard curler.

Dell is great, isn't it? Its a little odd though. Dell used to make good quality laptop computers. I don't know what posessed them to switch to making doorstops. But I guess there can be no doorstop more ornate and decorative than a beautiful piece of hardware like a dell laptop, raped with an install of "ubuntu" and sat in the corner for the dog to piss on.

Anonymous said...

This is what convinced me to use Linux: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/595276/hot_girls_with_linux/

Anonymous said...

@October 5, 2008 4:07 PM

I have installed Ubuntu at least 10 different hardware configurations, never having an issue getting Compiz working. Assuming this is a random process: if you want me to get into the mathematical probability of Compiz working.. I can probably figure out an strong approximation of the actual probability.. but even without the working the problem out I can safely assume the probability of Compiz is working is very high. 10 positive events in a large pool of possible events is almost always a high probability.

Anonymous said...

@thecodewitch

That's a bunch of nonsense. Dell makes some of the best computers out there (besides maybe Apple, and custom shops). It's amazing what lengths you fuckers will go to to discredit Linux.

thecodewitch said...

if you want me to get into the mathematical probability of Compiz working.. I can probably figure out an strong approximation of the actual probability.

I have complete faith in you, whoever you are, oh mysterious internet person. Do go on.

but even without the working the problem out I can safely assume the probability of Compiz is working is very high. 10 positive events in a large pool of possible events is almost always a high probability.

QED. What a watertight, rock solid, irrefutable proof of the reliability, correctness and overall awesomeness of Compiz, and the rightness of our cause.

Did everybody get that? That wasn't gibberish at all.

I'm totally convinced. Keep up the good work.

Anyone who doubts it needs some re-educationment done to the frontal lobey part of their brain. And any other part of the brain responsible for rational, independent thought.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to see you work out the probability. No, I challenge you to do so. Show your work.

Here is a hint: your experience with Ubuntu installs and having Compiz work isn't "random" thus you cannot deduce probability of failure or experience based on your extremely small sample size. Even if it was, the sample size is so damn small that the data is completely useless. Another hint: real world "random" often isn't random at all. Example: flipping a coin can be controlled so that it always lands on heads. If you flip it the same way you should get the same outcome each time yet this is often used as the example of randomness when it is really just the outcome of certain forces and their inputs.

Anonymous said...

@thecodewitch

Your sarcasm is mildly amusing, but if there is an actual fault in my logic please let me know. But I think it would be safe to assume if 10 random events in a row are true, the 11th, the 12th, etc. will also be true. The math is fairly complex, but I think the logic is quite simple. I'll get back to you with results if you want, it might make for some interesting results.

thecodewitch said...

That's a bunch of nonsense. Dell makes some of the best computers out there (besides maybe Apple, and custom shops). It's amazing what lengths you fuckers will go to to discredit Linux.

My first flame!! I'm so happy.

My comment is highly complex, consisting of several layers of nuanced sarcasm, which you may find hard to detect behind your linux media filter that was installed in the place of the two thirds of your brain the linux community has removed from your head so far.

There is a workaround though.

What you need to do is print out a copy of my comment - you might need to take a picture of it, upload it onto a friends windows box and print it from there, because printer manufacturers hate us and won't provide linux based drivers for their printers.

Once you have a hardcopy, read it 10,000 times. After every 10th time, punch yourself in the face. After every 30th time, visit fsf.org, and read one of the articles there. I am estimating a 62.5% probability that you will understand my comment by the end of it.

If you can't trust some guy on the internet, who can you trust?

Anonymous said...

@October 5, 2008 4:53 PM

Oh that's a bunch of nonsense. That's like saying that in Poker a card deal isn't truly random, so attempting to assign probability to a Flush happening is futile. In reality, yes - the real world, probability works quite well .. real world things are random enough that the mathematics of probability is very useful.

And sure the sample size matters, with a population size of 10 and a sample size of 10, the probability is 1. But even with a population of 1,000,000,000 - the probability really doesn't change that much believe it or not. Getting 10 Flushes in a row is so unlikely that it's probability is almost nothing. It works in reverse too, 10 of anything in a row makes it unlikely that the probability will be really small.

Anonymous said...

@thecodewitch

Actually printers seem to work just fine for me. I guess I must be the luckiest man on Earth or something - I actually have a stable and functional Linux desktop. Whatever. I just think you guys are pretty disillusioned with Linux, fine.. but there is a lot of people who actually do enjoy Linux, as in FOSS and free culture actually brings them happiness. I am one of these people. Really happiness is why we live. I just don't understand why people want to rain all over the parade.

thecodewitch said...

Your sarcasm is mildly amusing, but if there is an actual fault in my logic please let me know. But I think it would be safe to assume if 10 random events in a row are true, the 11th, the 12th, etc. will also be true.

Mildly amusing? I can be more amusing than that, but I'm not using my A material in some crappy comments section of some shitty blog. When I get famous, I'm gonna charge real cash money for tickets to see my shows. I'm charging anyone I suspect of being a current linux user double.

You're saying you got 10 positive results in a row. I see a couple of possibilities right away:

You installed it 10 times in a row on the same computer, because something triggered your psychosis the 9 other times you installed it.

Or, the Copenhagen "Linux user with friends" interpretation:

You installed it 10 times in a row for 10 different friends. The problem with this interpretation is as follows:

1) No linux user even has 10 friends.

2) Assume the linux user has an alter ego that appears normal, and that alter ego has 10 friends. If the alter ego was being controlled by the dominant linux persona that wishes to install linux, and manages to convince each of the 10 friends to try out linux, for each friend, the following will happen:
2a) Friend will ask "What the fuck did you do to my DELL LAPTOP WITH XP ON IT? *hint to other guy* Where did all my work go? What the fuck do you mean its ok, because only root can fuck up the system files? What about my fucking work files??" Then friend will cease being friend.
2b) Friend will spend the next year trying to get his linux box to work, which you will mischaracterize as a success story.

Therefore, your claim about 10 successive successful Compiz Ubuntu installs is refuted. QED.

Anonymous said...

Compiz failing isn't a random event by the very nature of programming itself.

Consider the following (fake) scenario: Compiz works perfectly with nVidia cards and 100% of the boxes you installed on had nVidia cards thus 100% success rate. However Compiz fails with any ATI card, none of which you tested on. You could even extend this scenario further by considering market penetration of ATI cards. Say nVidia was 30% of the market and ATI was 70%. What does your non-random, extremely small sample of data say now?

Consider: Crash in Compiz occurs when X, Y, and Z occur however all of your installs lack X due to user preference however the presence of X makes up 50% of the environments.

So really, your 10 computer success is a piss poor way to determine stability.

Anonymous said...

Looks like my post got lost. Repost time:

@Vincent

Solaris and BSD are primitive compared to Linux. True story. Both operating systems are basically dead, Netcraft confirms it.


OK...

#1: How the hell you know my name? LOL.

#2: Netcraft doesn't confirm anything about OS marketshare. The only thing they monitors as far as marketshare goes is web server software.

I'm well aware of the consumer marketshare that Linux doesn't have either.

#3: If BSD and Solaris are primitive then Linux must be a dilapidated fence post by your metric.

thecodewitch said...

Looks like my post got lost. Repost time: etc

Time to riposte the repost with a reiteration of a reinvigorating rejection of your reply.

You suck! You suck!

You suck, you suck, you suck!

Suck you do, that suck that you do do.

As to the content of your post, no comment.

RootYourMom said...

The problem with compiz vs aero is the difference in the level of professionalism. If you buy a laptop and it crashes all the time, you go to the store and return it. What do you do when compiz crashes? You're fucked. That's what.


The motivation for Nvidia to fix their drivers increases with vista adoption. This was pretty low at the start, and now its pretty high due to the marginal success of vista. I mean they are after all only competing with XP, and OSX to an extent. Linux is pretty much irrelevant to the average consumer.


This has been true for every release since Win3.1 Why would any device manufacturer waste resources trying to program for a new driver model, no matter how better it is? Same goes for linux, which is why integrating the drivers with the kernel is probably good for linux adoption.


As a windows user, I'll give the freetards some geek points for compiz. OK. Now what? Was your strategy to trick windows users into adoptiong linux by showing something shiny? (That only works for apple users, sorry). Eventually they will find out that none of their existing software works on linux. Which is why you see the high rate of return for netbooks with linux.


Yeah, blame the manufacturers. No, its *you*, yeah *you*, its your fucking fault freetards. You're supposed to bendover backwards and make your platform easy to ship. Manufactures don't care if Linux fails. In fact its easy for them to just ship one platform. They trying out linux to see if they can squeeze out more sales. If it fails they'll just slap windows on it and ship it.

Anonymous said...

What do you do when compiz crashes? You're fucked. That's what.

Umm... no you revert back to KWin or Metacity window managers.

But to be honest here both KWin and Metacity now support compositing and are probably more stable than Compiz.

Eventually they will find out that none of their existing software works on linux. Which is why you see the high rate of return for netbooks with linux.

Well if that were the only problem with Linux then it would be in great shape.

Same goes for linux, which is why integrating the drivers with the kernel is probably good for linux adoption.

I assume you're referring to proprietary drivers. Problem with this idea is the Linux kernel ABIs change with almost each point release, potentially breaking the drivers, X and cause a kernel panic.

This does work with FreeBSD, however. PC-BSD includes the proprietary Nvidia drivers by default. Unfortunately I have an ATI card instead.

thecodewitch said...

Public service announcement:

Linux users, please recompile your kernels now. The binary form of the kernel can start to rot and burn a hole in your hard disk if it isn't deleted and rebuilt at least once a week.

That is all.

Anonymous said...

At least Linux users CAN recompile our kernels. You Wintards and your silly code bloated closed source operating systems.

thecodewitch said...

At least Linux users CAN recompile our kernels. You Wintards and your silly code bloated closed source operating systems.

Yeah, those wintards. What a bunch of tards.

Us linux guys routinely make the OS do kickass things all the time - for most of us, the OS has been customised to the point where it is practically sentient, for we are all uberleet godlike megahackers, who refuse to be stifled by closed source kernels used by loser wintards. What a bunch of lamers. They are so oblivious - MS is holding them hostage, and they don't even see it.

We shit code for breakfast, and piss code for lunch. You heard me.

Obviously every single commercial software company is full of tard employees that are not as leet as us. We own you. (if you use linux)

The end.

Anonymous said...

"by the way, if i'm not mistaken, sw-based audio mixing for multiple processes, is not impossible to implement without resorting to a sound server..."

In fact, alsa has the 'dmix' plugin... It may not be perfect, but I've had no troubles with it.

Splitting hairs, technically it's a sound server, I guess, but it's quite transparent.

Anonymous said...

That's right! What these wintards fail to realize is that everyone using Linux don't have any of the problems they keep whining about because we always fix the bugs ourselves and customize our software.

antifundies said...

"This is what convinced me to use Linux: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/595276/hot_girls_with_linux/"

This is what convinced me:
http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2008/02/more-stallman-risk-taking.html

How awesome is that? If I compile the kernel I will be automatically able to do that. Windows users can't say the same!

Anonymous said...

Hmm, LH's rant was good, comm.. flames were (mostly) kinda lame.

Dear Canonical, you broke my sounds in 8.04. Rectify it, pretty please.

(Hopefully referring directly instead of yelling "I HATE YOU, DAMN LINUX!" works better?)

Anonymous said...

Umm... no you revert back to KWin or Metacity window managers.

I guess that's the real reason has so many duplicates of everything, none of them functional. So you can always keep trying.

Anonymous said...

If operating systems were penises Linux would be the one with erectile dysfunction.

Anonymous said...

I guess that's the real reason has so many duplicates of everything, none of them functional. So you can always keep trying.

Metacity is the official window manager of Gnome and KWin is KDE's. They been around far longer than Compiz/Beryl.

silix said...

In fact, alsa has the 'dmix' plugin... It may not be perfect, but I've had no troubles with it.
Splitting hairs, technically it's a sound server, I guess, but it's quite transparent.


oh, right... i was forgetting about dmix actually, too much pulseaudio talking, probably :-)

anyway, what i was questioning above was the feasibility of a system able to achieve interprocess mixing (by SW or HW based routines depending on the features suported by available devices and drivers) without the extra context switch associated with a sound server AND without performing mixing in the kernel
apparently, every developer focuses on kernel and sound servers as if they were the only elements in the sound chain - but there's the userspace sound library, too ;-)

Anonymous said...

Yawn. When will the freetards learn the right way to do things..

1. When MS wants to write a graphics api, they talk to ati and nvidia. come up with directx and kicks the ass of opengl


2. When MS wants to improve the sounds driver model and reduce latency, they speak to musicians, studios and fix the design.


3. When MS wants to improve 'client' security, they speak with corporates, revise group policy to lock down USB, and 1000 more additions, etc.


4. When MS wants to improve their server design, they talk to hosting companies, data centers, corporates and improve their design.


5. When they want to design hardware, they ask the industry experts for opinions on ergonimcs, spend hard cash on research, which is why their keyboards are some of the best ones.


6. when they want to design the UI again they go to the experts. The medium-new to experienced users love the new office 2007 UI (as I'm told). Geeks hate it, because they prefer functional things.


7,8,9,10... This is how its done.
(I'm not just saying MS does this, everyone except FOSS. Some dev in their free time bangs togetehr some inefficient crappy design that needs to be tweaked 100 times for specific-use cases)

They hire only 'programmers'. And they dont let the geeks design products. I think this is the biggest win. Yeah, it costs money. OSS is not always better. Get over it.
-

And then they force it upon everyone ;)

l00natyk said...

i've never used PA cause alsa was plenty enought for me but it somehow sem to be like with KDE4 "stable release" while no-one with sane mind would call it stable, its alpha like. thats qute common for open source world to release an unfinished piece of crap and advertise it as 'goddamn awesome stuff that has a many kewl features but not any is implemented yet'.

Anonymous said...

@ loonatyk,

people here tend to forget that the latest distribution versions are roughly beta quality, and their users are essentially beta-testers. If you want stability and fewer bugs, you should stick to the long-term support versions, which are lagging 1-2 versions. Of course, in this case most of linuxhater's posts would have been plain FUD...

Anon E Moose said...

Compiz is the subject of a whole other rant, I expect.

Though, seriously, who the hell is still impressed with it?

Probably the same sort who put fart cans and spoilers on their Civics and sport ghey little lip beards :P

I couldn't give a shit what the window borders and taskbar look like. Just so long as they (window borders and controls) don't vanish randomly because Emerald has taken a dump.

Anonymous said...

The Bluetooth support is currently considered experimental but it is enabled by default.

Genius at work.

Anon E Moose said...

bluetooth support in an audio system?

They're decorating the windows before the house has a roof.

par for the course, in other metaphors

makomk said...

"DirectSound/ASIO (Windows) and CoreAudio/ASIO (Macintosh) provide both desktop and pro audio capable sound systems in one, why can't Linux? PA on it's own isn't the answer, neither is Jack on it's own, nor is both together."

Errm - you do realise that DirectSound and ASIO are completely different APIs, right? What you're saying is exactly the same as saying that, since Linux has both PulseAudio and direct hardware output via ALSA, it has both desktop and pro sound systems in one. (Well, except for the minor detail that most Windows hardware drivers don't even support ASIO at all.)

Basically, ASIO is nothing but a third-party API that bypasses the entire Windows audio stack and goes direct to the hardware - hence the comparison with doing direct hardware access via ALSA on Linux.

Windows Vista introduced another audio API - WASAPI - that is supposed to replaces ASIO. The impression I get is that it's a bit like ALSA, except more limited in some ways. Just like ALSA, you can send audio to the sound server or direct to the hardware. Unlike ALSA, every app has to write its own sample rate conversion code, which is a pain.

Vista also has something called WaveRT drivers, which can only be developed for internal soundcards, not USB or Firewire devices, and provide the same functionality as the "unsafe" ALSA API functions. Some pro-audio software talks to these directly so it can use this functionality.

I think I can categorically state that Windows, at least as of Vista, has most of the same issues relating to audio as this blog post is complaining about in Linux.

Anonymous said...

To the dumbass called makomk

Vista, unlike Linux, works. Vista unlike Linux can play sound that I can hear. Your linux is fucking retarded.

Anonymous said...

Vista, unlike Linux, works. Vista unlike Linux can play sound that I can hear.

And even two or more sounds simultaneously. Weee!

Anonymous said...

@October 6, 2008 11:23 AM

Vista works?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Holy crap dude that was funny as hell. I totally didn't see that one coming!

LinkMaster03 said...

@October 6, 2008 11:32 AM

LOL SO TRUE.

But yep, my sound works on Linux. I can also play sound from as many apps as I want at the same time. Guess what I'm using? PulseAudio bitches.

Anonymous said...

Quote:

"
LOL SO TRUE.

But yep, my sound works on Linux. I can also play sound from as many apps as I want at the same time. Guess what I'm using? PulseAudio bitches."

WorksForMe(tm) at its best!

Second Life sound was decent for me in Linux, until Pulse Audio was installed. Now my audio is fucked. :/ Choppy and skippy.

What the fuck Linux?

Anonymous said...

Vista works?

HAHAHA... etc


You freetards said the same damn thing about XP. And we're all still waiting for TheYearOfLinuxDesktop(TM).

Good luck.

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