- GregKH, kernel hacker extra-ordinaire, couldn't figure out to convert an avi of a video from his own conference to OGG format. Go open source!
- Remember all those Linux netbooks? Well apparently they're so great, that they get returned 4 times as often as the same hardware running Windows.
- John writes about his Ubuntu upgrade experience.
Im sure everyone reading this is aware of that feeling when you go and use a friends brand new $2000 Windows Vista computer. The way it runs so slowly with 2GHz of processing power at its disposal, crashes all the time and takes 6 minutes to turn on. It is brand new FFS. When I am in that situation it makes me feel like the entire engineering profession has failed me.
I got that feeling with Ubuntu this week.
- Timothy Prickett Morgan at the Register writes about how Linux is what Windows wanted to be. Yes, an OS that supports a bazillion hardware platforms but has barely any useful applications. That's exactly what Windows wanted to be.
- An article about how open source hippies have a hard time working at large corporations.
If possible, larger corporations that have open source components should do what they can to leave them alone and impose the very minimum amount of bureaucratic overhead on those teams. Results matter far more than process.
- Mr. Toponce, once again, from Planet Ubuntu, talking about how Wikimedia has moved to Ubuntu. In the process, he points all the shortcomings of Fedora, for example "Fedora, although it strives for stability, never really gets that opportunity. Instead, each release is broken somehow, someway" or "Fedora places itself to be a test bed for new technologies and changes". Umm yea. Because every Ubuntu release is perfect, and Ubuntu doesn't ship bleeding edge stuff like Pulse Audio in a LTS release.. oh wait..
- Don't you love it when open source folks fight among each other? I thought this whole thing was about cooperation.
- A rant sent in by a reader about Linux and Marketing.
- Another rant that shoots down common Linux claims.
- A blog post suggesting that making your software free is a good approach amidst this global credit crisis. Right, because if you "Sell customers what they need, in their eyes its _just_ the right amount of support. Often this will exceed or equal the amount that you’d gain via licensing." And yea, when exactly are they going to buy this support? Like as a contract? Up front? So you're charging them more? And that's supposed to be attractive to them?
- And finally, I thought Linux was about freedom and choice, and that extends to Satan warshippers. Apparently, distrowatch doesn't think so.
Friday, October 10, 2008
Rants and Laughs 6
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 464 Newer› Newest»munich Linux fornication
Whatever happenned to the Munich Linux thing. Did those guys get up & running or hare they still scratching their heads to get wireless working?.
Ubuntu 8.10 will change all of this. You'll see. Next year will be the year of the Linux desktop!
As of August 2008, only 1200 of the 14,000 computers are running LiMux (their version of Linux) according to the project site at http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/dir/limux/english/147197/index.html
From http://osor.eu/case_studies/declaration-of-independence-the-limux-project-in-munich they even indicate that the project will not save money.
If this project becomes a success, it is because of German engineering. Just don't hold your breath, they won't be done until 2012.
It will be amazing to see this projest fail. Just think what that would do to the Lintards.They will be running around claiming MS bribed the Munich authorities...as always.
That would signal the death knell of Linux for use on the desktop. Linux will remain a Hippy's masturbation tool!
If BSD gets as popular as Linux, it'll also become popular for forkers, then it'll turn into a mess. Anyone corrects me?
Forks are essentially different operating systems with unique features and goals. Forks are something anyone has control over, short of blowing up their project's server room.
So it would be like comparing FreeBSD with Solaris or AIX with HP-UX.
PC-BSD isn't a fork of FreeBSD but rather *IS* FreeBSD with the X11, KDE4, OSS4, and a few other ports included. There is also the PBI package system, some graphical configuration tools, pre-configured loader.conf and plug & play scripts.
You can download a stock FreeBSD image and import all the PC-BSD tools, scripts, and tweaks and end up with the same result.
Anyway... enough of this BSD talk. Get back to bashing an OS 99% of the world doesn't use on their desktop--the problems Linux has don't exist when nobody uses it to experience them.
PC-BSD isn't a fork of FreeBSD but rather *IS* FreeBSD with the X11, KDE4, OSS4, and a few other ports included.
And that's the reason why PC-BSD is quite useless too. There's already something like a UNIX fork that works for the desktop: OS X. Pity that it can never be a true competitor to Windows because of the Apple tax.
True, PC OS X would mark the death of even a niche desktop Linux and FreeBSD movement.
However, my experience with illegal hacked OS X on commodity PC hardware has been worse than even the shittiest Linux distributions. This includes the crappy, unsupported 3rd party drivers.
Wikimedia's servers are down.
Trouble with Ubuntu?
Wikipedia is now using Ubuntu in it servers. Try going there and see what happens...
"Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem. This is probably temporary and should be fixed soon. Please try again in a few minutes."
ah ah!
Linus sucks!
Apple at least does not have the audacity to claim that it's operation system works on most commodity hardware. They sell you a closed package, end of story.
If you try to create an Hackintosh (as I did btw, WorksForMe(tm)), even if installing kext and replacing kernels is a trial and error affair (which was a problem for me - but you can do it from a GUI!), the end result is a fast, stable, modern OS, with far better desktop, and far deeper software library than the FOSS world can dream to have. And you can even use fink and macPorts, package managers that eliminates even the minor advantages offered by Linux.
Oh, yeah - you can use multiple monitors, multiple sound sources, and even have compositing that does not break your graphics layer.
An illegally created Hackintosh is still far better the any version of Linux.
opps too slow
I have a question about Vista. Why the hard drive is ALWAYS working without any aparent reason?? It's extremely annoying.
That's the metadata indexer.
Like tracker or beagle, but actually works.
I have a question about Vista. Why the hard drive is ALWAYS working without any aparent reason?? It's extremely annoying.
Whats annoying about it? The LED light?
I have a question about Vista. Why the hard drive is ALWAYS working without any aparent reason?? It's extremely annoying.
At first I was annoyed, too. I even switch back to XP, because of this. Disabling the indexer and other stuff did NOT help!
After Vista SP1 things got a lot better. The HD is still busy sometimes, but the overall performance of the system seems no longer suffers from it.
In total the performance is now even better than XP running on the same machine for my work profile (Compiling and running big applications using more than 2 GByte of memory).
I'm now a happy Vista user!
I have a question about Vista. Why the hard drive is ALWAYS working without any aparent reason?? It's extremely annoying.
Not the indexer. That is Superfetch filling your RAM with precached data. Free memory is wasted memory.
Munich Linux failure was predictable. Simple fact the required tech was missing.
X11 server still problematic then as now. We need kernel mode setting in kernel so overload is not by by system because X11 will not respond.
When that was done Linux did not have anything equal to a MS ADS server.
Before you even get into applications. Where if a distrobution did not lets say provide the latest firefox you had to build your own. Sorry that could be ended in under 2 months something I though had missed the November LSB 4.0 window has made it on to the table for include.
Failure was core level. All the major failures will be gone. The closed source welcome mat is almost ready to be placed for them.
I am sorry to say Windows network capable at times costs more than the hardware its running on. So in some cases you can double your machines. No matter how you put it there is fair motivation.
You are making the same failed compared as apple vs dos before windows 95 turned up.
If you are following the up coming changes there is no way that the past of Linux is anything like its near future of 2009.
The tragedy of Linux is that it's mediocre in areas where it's not the absolute worst.
Be truthful so is Microsoft products and apple products. Third party providing of applications is key to both of them being usable. That will be provided to Linux really soon.
Come back in the middle of 2009 and look again.
So if Ubuntu Penis Edition crashes, do you feed it viagra? If so, when the hard drive is accessed for longer than four hours do you have to call the Geek Squad?
Superfetch ok hello stupidity. Linux has a preloader that kinda caches what is truly going to run. On one hand free memory is wasted memory. But running a harddrive without need is wasted power. Linux uses operation caching of memory no extra overhead.
From a power management point of view adding a auto hotplug ram support would have be far more of a boost to laptop users that stupid superfetch. Ie power off ram bays when the ram in them is not needed and power them up on demand.
If so, when the hard drive is accessed for longer than four hours do you have to call the Geek Squad
Thank you for a laugh. You have no clue what that problem is. Linux kernels from 2.2.0-2.6.26 have that issue. Its call the Big Kernel Lock problem were something doing a lot of IO access could completely take processor and device access time away from all other applications. Note I did not include 2.6.27 the current Linux kernel if you had a distribution with that kernel you could not make it happen.
The problem is history from a kernel developers point of view. Even better fine grained device access controls should be in place by the middle of 2009.
Stop looking at just history.
Linux has a preloader that kinda caches what is truly going to run.
Sure. Because it's magical, as everything Linux.
@anon engrish
Dude, we've heard this mantra a billion times before. Allow me to enumerate some failed promises:
a. Tracker promised to add metadata indexing. 4 years later, it's still not comparable to Microsoft's or Apple's offerings.
b. Conduit promised to solve the data sync problem between multiple devices. Current status: FAIL.
c. Pulseaudio promised to solve the audio mess on Linux - EPIC FAIL.
d. x.org promised to modernize X11. it is late, under delivering, and still not workable. EPIC FAIL.
e. Udev/ HAL promised to solve the problem of mounting devices, hotplugging, etc. semi-FAIL.
f. Openoffice promised to enable modern Office suit. EPIC MEGA FAIL.
g. Compiz promised Hardware accelerated compositing layer. The project started 5 years ago. Currently, both Vista and Leopard got a fully functional compositing layer, and Linux got a system crasher. MEGA EPIC FAIL.
The middle of 2009 is 8 months from now.
Short of a miracle combined with space/ time compression, Linux and FOSS has no way to close the existing gap. If "someone" were to dump 1b$ dedicated to solving Linux's infrastructure problems, it will still take more the 5 years to rewrite the faulty components. This will probably mean writing the entire OS and supporting libraries from scratch, without leaving a single line of code intact.
This is, BTW, very close to what IBM did more than a decade ago, and it still wasn't enough to help Linux become more than the EPIC FAIL that it is today.
@anon engrish
You tell us not to look at history, while pointing at a non-existing future.
In the past, Linux was shit, but promised to do better, when magical technology X_n matures.
Currently, Linux is shit.
In the future, Linux promises to do better, when magical technology X_n+1 matures.
magical technology LOL.
Problem is its not magical.
d. x.org promised to modernize X11. it is late, under delivering, and still not workable. EPIC FAIL.
Fixes to X11 and patches for kernel linked to them are complete. Issue why they are not out now is merge windows. Yes late not fail. So not workable if you are using release versions. Perfectly workable if you are using development versions.
g. Compiz promised Hardware accelerated compositing layer. The project started 5 years ago. Currently, both Vista and Leopard got a fully functional compositing layer, and Linux got a system crasher. MEGA EPIC FAIL.
Cause X11 driver layour see fix 1. Late again same set of fixes. Delayed just enough that they both missed the last X11 release why missed the linux kernel patch window. You are quoting history code is done is just the merge.
c. Pulseaudio promised to solve the audio mess on Linux - EPIC FAIL.
Day 1 I could have told you where Pulseaudio was going to end up. So it not getting anywhere is predictable. There are other solutions that don't require a sound server.
Openoffice conduit and tracker not a major issue with the allowance of third party. Only thing in the way of that now is LSB linker fixes formal vote failing. Other than that its code complete.
Really only the HAL bit remains if you stop looking at history and start looking at what is currently complete and what cannot be simply replaced.
Who said I am talking about 100 percent free OS. I am not a free person I use a mix of open and closed source solutions. Linux will become a true platform between now and middle of 2009.
Linux will become a true platform between now and middle of 2009.
Not gonna happen. Freetards don't even know what a platform is... and they don't even care. And those few who care cannot change the state of things.
Not gonna happen. Freetards don't even know what a platform is... and they don't even care. And those few who care cannot change the state of things.
Simple issue LSB linker alteration makes a platform. A standard for building applications for Linux that don't give a stuff about distributions and what they provide. All LSB applications will be able to operate using what distribution provides or stand alone using only the Linux kernel. The platform is here. X11 fixs allow running more than 1 X11 server 100 percent safely. So a distribution providing a altered X11 server will not help them since LSB applications will be able to ship with own if needed.
Other than having a Linux kernel nothing in a distribution will be past being replaced for use with a Linux Standard Base Application without breaking any distribution installed application.
Guess what it is not just Open Source forcing the create of the platform. Its Closed Source and yes they do know what a Platform is.
The pieces are in play to make the Platform its basically too late to stop it now. Shifting of power away from distributions will cause some major disturbances to what exists in the Linux world. The coming alterations give freedom to the Linux Platform like you have never seen.
The call for a Linux Binary API has been granted with exact .so files and all. Only 1 catch does not require any agreement from distributions to work.
A standard that nobody uses and that nobody cares for is useless. That is exactly the definition of the LSB. You can keep on dreaming, though. Those of us who have watched Linux for a long time know better than that.
If you want to talk about organizations going for Linux, I have 3 words for you: Munich Linux Fornication. Linux migration fucked them up beyond repair. That will be a good lesson to anybody that's foolish enough to even think about using a Linux desktop in their company.
According to the officials, the migration is on track with 100% firefox & thunderbird installations, 60% OO.org and 10% linux.
It's only a matter of the first large-scale desktop deployment to occur, so that all bugs and quirks are fixed and some lessons are learned. After that, others will follow and MS marketshare will plunge. This is inevitable, deal with it.
"The budget-effective cost of the LiMux project is 12.8 million Euro over five years. Schießl says that so far, significantly less money has been spent than was planned, since up to now fewer clients were migrated than originally intended."
We are SAVING MONEY!! ohh, wait...
The budget-effective cost of the LiMux project is 12.8 million Euro over five years. Schießl says that so far, significantly less money has been spent than was planned, since up to now fewer clients were migrated than originally intended."
We are SAVING MONEY!! ohh, wait...
Err, what part of the: "we won't be paying any more license costs for eternity" don't you understand? Is this some sort of MS astroturfing going on here?
a. Tracker promised to add metadata indexing. 4 years later, it's still not comparable to Microsoft's or Apple's offerings.
Wait... where did Tracker and Beagle search tools fail? The only problem with Tracker is the API libtracker is somewhat low-level and sucks--this is changing now that a better API is being written for developers. Beagle is based on Mono, which means more resource hungry.
b. Conduit promised to solve the data sync problem between multiple devices. Current status: FAIL.
I don't know anything about this project so I wont comment here.
c. Pulseaudio promised to solve the audio mess on Linux - EPIC FAIL.
Pulseaudio is a superior sound server and API in itself. Where it currently fails at is perfectly wrapping the tons of "other" audio APIs, such as Alsa, OSS, Jack, etc.
It Pulseaudio didn't have to accommodate all the other sound systems then there would be no problem today.
d. x.org promised to modernize X11. it is late, under delivering, and still not workable. EPIC FAIL.
Xorg made a major first step by modularizing X11. The next step is for all Xorg drivers to adopt the Gallium 3D framework for driver development, which makes OpenGL drivers simpler and support all of OpenGL features and extentions. The unified TTM memory manager is another aspect here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium3D
e. Udev/ HAL promised to solve the problem of mounting devices, hotplugging, etc. semi-FAIL.
There is alot of problems in Linux but mounting devices isn't one of them. Un-mounting--perhaps sucks. I cannot stand when the DVD drive is mounted and wont let me eject due to the device being in use.
f. Openoffice promised to enable modern Office suit. EPIC MEGA FAIL.
OpenOffice is one of many office suits available to *nix users. OOo 3 introduces many new features such as Office 2007 document importing but we can argue that it still underperforms.
OxygenOffice Pro is a far better OpenOffice than OpenOffice and even addresses some of the performance bottlenecks. It hasn't yet been upgraded to the 3.0 release, however.
g. Compiz promised Hardware accelerated compositing layer. The project started 5 years ago. Currently, both Vista and Leopard got a fully functional compositing layer, and Linux got a system crasher. MEGA EPIC FAIL.
Compiz was and still remains an experimental toy. KDE's KWin, Gnome's Metacity, XFCE's Xfwm and Enlightenment now provide their own (sane) hardware-accelerated composting desktop functionality without the shit that is Compiz.
Compiz only exists today because it has the most eye-candy effects plugins, such as the useless aquarium desktop.
According to the officials, the migration is on track with 100% firefox & thunderbird installations, 60% OO.org and 10% linux.
omg, they finished installing firefox and thunderbird on windows on all their computers ...
because that's the hard alright ? installing stuff on windows ?
i'm happy to know what'll happen when they will install ubuntu on the laptops and the wireless will not work, and the laptops won't be able to standby anymore.
Munich Linux failure was predictable. Simple fact the required tech was missing.
Yeah, but that didn't stop Linux freetards from arguing that it was READY NOW. See the problem here? Freetards ALWAYS assume that their crap is ready NOW -- and it NEVER is.
X11 server still problematic then as now. We need kernel mode setting in kernel so overload is not by by system because X11 will not respond.
How many fucking years does this have to be a problem before it gets fixed? Because Freetards aren't really interested in fixing (aka eliminating X). Because that would take real innovation, rather than simply copying someone else's shit -- BADLY.
When that was done Linux did not have anything equal to a MS ADS server.
So, in other words, it WASN'T ready for an enterprise level deployment at all. Whoever even suggested it should be fucking fired.
Before you even get into applications. Where if a distrobution did not lets say provide the latest firefox you had to build your own. Sorry that could be ended in under 2 months something I though had missed the November LSB 4.0 window has made it on to the table for include.
What utter crap.
Failure was core level. All the major failures will be gone. The closed source welcome mat is almost ready to be placed for them.
Right. We've heard this song before. You'll be blaming something else pretty soon, when it doesn't work out the way you say it will.
I am sorry to say Windows network capable at times costs more than the hardware its running on. So in some cases you can double your machines. No matter how you put it there is fair motivation.
You don't have to replace ALL of your server and client deployments to get an effective cost savings. Whoever recommended a wholesale replacement should be fucking fired.
If you are following the up coming changes there is no way that the past of Linux is anything like its near future of 2009.
Did you bother to read the fucking article, douchebag? The Munich project WILL NOT SAVE ANY MONEY. End of story. Game over. You lose. Don't complain about costs when you can't beat them.
Come back in the middle of 2009 and look again.
Again, we've heard this song before; so many times, in fact, that I no longer have the capacity or will to even entertain the possibility that what you're saying has a shred of hope of coming true.
An illegally created Hackintosh is still far better the any version of Linux.
Screw that, just get a used mac mini off ebay or craigslist. That is the best cheap unix desktop.
Linux will become a true platform between now and middle of 2009.
Linux can't even dominate cell phones, a platform where users can't even tell the difference between systems.
How can this be when Linux is free? It is because Linux is a PITA for software developers, even when the hardware is locked down as in the case of the cell phone. A free OS doesn't mean anything if it causes your productivity to be cut in half.
The big linux lie is that it is a programmer's os. It isn't, most of the programming tools are in fact over a decade old.
Linux is actually the overpaid network admin's OS, one where simple tasks are made unnecessarily difficult which means more hours and more pay for the IT crowd. They and the anti-microsoft crowd make up the bulk of the linux forum forces. Linuxland is actually short on programmers and has been since the switch to gui applications.
After that, others will follow and MS marketshare will plunge. This is inevitable, deal with it.
In 2003 Siemens predicted that MS marketshare would plunge this year. Linux is supposed to have 20% enterprise market share by the end of the 2008:
http://www.linux.com/articles/30873
Additional note:
This reply was written in openoffice 3. What an ugly and annoying program, and what a joke it is that the Munich government is going to pay extra for it. Back to Office 07 I go.
"aka eliminating X" Sorry to say fool. MS developers think that is needed. X11 will be very like the way Windows interface is designed after the next lot of release. Reason its taken so long to be fixed is Developers had no interest in X11. There wages were coming from running servers and no one had a use for the Linux desktop. Developer been sent in show a change. Evil bit is most of you have only ever used a single threaded X11 server with fake multitasking. Up until the last release that is the way it was. No one had really fixed up its code in 20 years. Intel sent a developer in about 2 years ago lot of nightmares have been fixed since then the Intel developer really had no idea how large of problems would turn up. Fake multitasking ie single thread pretending to be many really does perform badly on a multi core processor. Driver interface faults, no 2d hardware acceleration and the list goes on. Yet core design of X11 is not bad all the complete replacements to X11 created have turned out slower as X11 defects were removed. That has been the issue. 10 years of a performance blocker in the Linux kernel. On top the X11 issue. Work is progressing at long last. Reason why I am expecting change is not same old same old.
Also I wish people would not just think something happening because wikipedia has it. Gallium3D Tanked. And I do mean Tanked. If Galliun3d design was not flawed and did not need a complete rework compiz would work now. X11 key fixes where delayed by the rework that is now complete.
Siemens prediction depended on parts that had be delayed particularly X11. Also there prediction has moved a little bit slower. Most of what is happen this year Siemens though would have been sorted out in 2005.
Siemens included stuff like splashtop in the percentage.
Sorry to say history again pulling up old predictions to help you is only proving how little you have to throw.
Did you bother to read the fucking article, douchebag? The Munich project WILL NOT SAVE ANY MONEY. End of story. Game over. You lose. Don't complain about costs when you can't beat them.
I do the blow out is correct. Same with placing any OS in a location its not ready for ends up costing more money. Lack of central management massively deployed was going to cost money. The issues is that caused most of the blow out be gone in a few months. So management costs blow out of Munich project not going to happen in a future case.
Whoever recommended a wholesale replacement should be fucking fired. I will alter that. Without doing valid homework first. Looking to history is not valid homework. Looking at the true state compared to what is needed is.
I have done valid homework on linux and have not deployed other than servers because the required features were not there. Next 8 months the required features will appear. Basically you would be quite fair to say everyone who has done a major deployment that failed up until this point was a idiot.
The big linux lie is that it is a programmer's os. It isn't, most of the programming tools are in fact over a decade old.
Stop trying to make me laugh at you guys. MS programming tools and Linux Programming tools are about the same ages. All linux tools have been updated in that time. Of course gcc is draging its heels because they have been able to get away with it. But there are commercial solutions that work far better than MSVC or gcc. From a tech fact both MSVC and GCC sux and producing code in there own ways. Neither produces full optimised code.
.Net itself is not even a new idea. In programming really there is nothing new. Just old stuff reshuffled.
Linux is a programmers OS because you are allowed into the core of it. Not that its perfect for programmers no OS is all have there issues.
Besides part of the LSB 4.0 is simpler programming. http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/
Finally OpenOffice look really is not a factor. We used applications for years that looked like crap. Its function. The good enough factor MS Office looked like crap when it was compared to some of the office suits it beat too. Price vs What it can do. Besides OpenOffice is not alone in the open source office suits let along the other closed source office suits for Linux. Only reason why you don't see more is that third party is too hard to install. LSB 4.0 will change a major block of that. LSB 4.1 will complete it. Effects will start showing self after LSB 4.0.
Be clear I am not talking about a 100 percent free OS here. This is where you are failing to get. OpenOffice is not a issue to a platform that can install many others.
Linux Standard Base has taken the last 8 years to get enough standards in place for the next move. Something can appear to be doing nothing when in fact it will trigger a major change.
Start listing needed features then check on the true state of them and you will find what I have found. Clock is ticking to over 90 percent of features for a desktop OS to land. As microsoft and apple proved over the time.
Its not the applications that ship with a OS that make a desktop platform. Its the means for users to install there own from third parties.
Its not the configuration system lot of Microsoft configurations are not accessible and when MS windows started most were not to users so people use third party tools to change them. Over time MS improved due to have to third party push the way.
Most important the interface must perform and must be able to cope with a lockup of a application. This is a key failure of all X11 releases to date. This ends next release.
The world has changed there is no way you can use the past Linux to predict the results of its near future form. Keystones of tech have changed.
The world has changed there is no way you can use the past Linux to predict the results of its near future form.
If you want to expect different results, you must change your ways first. That is not happening with Linux. I don't think it ever will. Personally, I gave up on Linux a long time ago. No more "superior" Linux bullshit for me.
1.5 million Google Android (Linux) cellphones pre ordered already. Google Android is currently the only possible rival to the iPhone.
@anon
gcc is the industry standard C \ C++ compiler. There is nothing that even comes close to the level of processor support of gcc. It's really so good that GPL-hating *BSD uses gcc, and even Mac OS X and all of it's software is compiled with gcc.
@.net jerkface
Linux is short on programmers
Not true, go read the weekly RC changes list. There a hundreds of changes per week. I don't see this this as a shortage, but more could be better. Interesting too that the vast majority of Linux development is paid development.
IBM, Red Hat, Novell, Intel, AMD, Google, the NSA, MontaVista, HP, and many other organizations sponsor hundreds upon hundreds of Linux full time developers in total. I doubt even Microsoft has this kind of manpower behind their kernel.
And this is why open source will win eventually. The health of Windows really depends on the health of Microsoft (one organization). If open source begins to put competitive pressure on Microsoft (and we this happening with stuff like Microsoft Dreamspark/MSDNAA, and $50 MS Office Ultimate) for students - and $300 MS Server. And they start losing revenues, their product quality will suffer because of it. This will lead to a snowball effect where less people will buy Microsoft products and less revenue will be generated, less development will then take place, and so on. What has happened to dozens of other organizations with similar business models to Microsoft will eventually happen to Microsoft itself, unless they somehow manage to kill Google. It's all a matter of time, the market knows it, and even Steve Ballmer knows it.
Not true, go read the weekly RC changes list. There a hundreds of changes per week. I don't see this this as a shortage, but more could be better.
The following projects have had releases delayed due to a lack developers:
Xorg
KDE
OpenOffice
Recent article on the subject:
http://www.gnome.org/~michael/blog/ooo-commit-stats-2008.html
Most of the core FOSS programmers are veteran abm'rs who can't stand the fact that MS dominates. Stallman's ideology isn't picking up enough younger programmers because they have grown up with microsoft and are comfortable with them.
This will lead to a snowball effect where less people will buy Microsoft products and less revenue will be generated, less development will then take place, and so on.
Or Microsoft will continue to find new markets and disappoint people like you who view the software world as a holy war. They currently have 21 billion in cash and their software sales will be healthy for at least another decade. This idea that foss will break microsoft anytime soon is wishful thinking.
Linux can't even break Microsoft in the server sphere.
http://www.serverwatch.com/stats/article.php/3749911
Good lord 7 years ago I never would have believed that MS would be making this much in server sales at this point. After all Linux is free, right?
Linux is a programmers OS because you are allowed into the core of it. Not that its perfect for programmers no OS is all have there issues.
Linux is a programmer's os because you can look at the kernel? How many programmers actually want to do that? Windows not only has gcc but a dozen other compilers you can use as well as a better selection of development IDEs. What is the linuxland equivalent of visual studio?
Windows is about choice. Choosing what applications you want to run and what layers of the OS you want to replace. Linux is all about choosing what the community thinks you should choose.
Bruce Byfield says the Linux bums talk too much about code.
"... instead of talking about software or its licenses, the FOSS community needs to talk more about issues such as consumers' rights and privacy and free speech -- matters that extend far beyond the keyboard and terminal."
What does the so-called free software have anything to do with free speech? And, what does Linux have anything to do with any ideals? Look at the bums clamor for Flash, proprietary games, binary wireless drivers to ndiswrap, proprietary video drivers, and the proprietary software like photoshop (that never comes to Linux).
Linux system consists bad software developed by a bunch of incompetent idiot programmers meant to be used by Microsoft-haters. Spare us the BS about ideology, at least.
IBM, Red Hat, Novell, Intel, AMD, Google, the NSA, MontaVista, HP, and many other organizations sponsor hundreds upon hundreds of Linux full time developers in total. I doubt even Microsoft has this kind of manpower behind their kernel.
Typical freetard rant. Pity that an OS is much more than its kernel. No one is funding desktop Linux. And nobody gives a shit.
Be truthful so is Microsoft products and apple products. Third party providing of applications is key to both of them being usable.
While this is true, and as refreshing as it is to see a freetard finally "getting it": The OS is irrelevant, it's all about the applications, there's more to it than that.
First, to say that Windows and OS X rely solely on third party applications to make them useful is a load of bollocks. Both companies provide first party applications.
In the case of Apple, there are the iLife and iWork suites, the bundled software (iCal, Addressbook, iChat, Preview, Safari (and a small note on Safari: the application itself is an Apple product. The rendering engine, WebKit is what's based on KHTML. a) KHTML wasn't all that useful before Apple modified it and produced WebKit. b) There's a lot of talk of even the KDE team abandoning KHTML in favour of WebKit), iTunes, QuickTime, etc) all of which make the base system useable.
On top of that, there is Apple's line of Pro tools: Final Cut Pro, for example, is the more or less the be-all-end-all of video-editing on the mac or otherwise (you'll not that not even Adobe competes with them on this level, as neither Premiere Pro not Efter Effects have been ported to the Mac).
There's Aperture, which is one of the highest grade photo post-production application on any platform, along with Adobe's Lightroom.
There's Logic Studio, Logic Pro and Logic express, which are the standard for audio sequencing, editing, composition and vst/au hosting. They're by far more popular on the Mac than Cubase, Reason, and Pro Tools.
And in Microsoft's case, many credit their first-party Windows application for achieving, and more importantly, maintaining their market dominance:
Internet Explorer, good or bad, doesn't matter, it's an MS product and it's the most widely used browser, period.
MS Office: Also an MS product, the de-facto standard office suite, dfominates it's market, provides usability to the OS.
Visual Studio: Also a first party Windows product. Widely considered the single most powerful IDE there is, bar none. (weather I agree or not does not change the fact that it is widely credited as being such. Spare me your disagreements/rants I don't care).
Silverlight and .NET, also first party MS applications which make Windows usable.
Furthermore, there's the issue of the OS's provided facilities and archetecture as well that play a factor. There's a reason why Windows and OS X get a lot more third party developer attention than Linux. And it doesn't all have to do with market share.
Stable, uniform, standardized API/ABIs. This has been beaten to death and back on this blog.
You can't expect third party developers to support a platform that not only has, for example, a dozen competing, incomplete and overlapping sound subsystems.
MS has DirectX (which even ASIO plugs into), Apple has CoreAudio. It's easy. You're targetting Windows? You target DirectX. You're targeting OS X, you target CoreAudio. No choosing between esd, pulseaudio, alsa, oss, arts, phonon, gstreamer, sdl, xine or any of the other 273 different sound libraries.
Graphics? MS has, again, DirectX and on a higher level, WPA. Apple has CoreImage. Both also provide built-in colour-management and colour-profiling support. Linux has no such standard.
UI? Both MS and Apple provide a single, universal standard set of toolkits, widgets and frameworks. MS provides .NET. And Apple provides Cocoa.
There's such standard on Linux. Which one do you use? QT, GTK+, GTK2, TCL/TK, wxWidgets, EFL? What about frameworks? Do you build against the Gnome stack? Do you go with KParts? EFL?
Then, on top of this, there's the issue of stability (and no, in this case stability does NOT refer to crash resistance).
The Cocoa, CoreImage and CoreAudio frameworks are stable. They don't change on a day to day basis, they're backwards compatible, and don't break/replace all kinds of core functionality between point releases, let alone major releases.
Same goes for Windows. Windows is still capable of running 16-bit and 32-bit legacy applications with little overhead (since they implement backward compatibility via isolated subsystems). The APIs and ABIs themselves don't undergo radical mutations and core subsystems aren't changed, replaced or deprecated at random.
Look at Linux in comparison. It's a nightmare to target, the stable and development branches of the kernel have no separation: The development occurs within the "stable" branch. Things break and mutate often.
There's no intention or interest in proving a stable ABI, GregHK has already made tis much clear. He'll have you believe that such isn't feasible, but it's a blatant lie: FreeBSD provides not only backward ABI compatibility with older version of itself, the Linuxulator subsystem actually provides ABI compatibility with Linux. Why can the FreeBSD team do it, but the Linux kernel devs cannot?
As has been linked to several times on this blog, look up the VMware incident, where they broke VMWare between kernel point releases.
That will be provided to Linux really soon.
No. it will not. I've been using Linux for 10 of the past 12 years, and I've been hearing this over and over for the past 12 years. Until the issues listed above (and many which I have not addressed) are dealt with, active commercial third party development will not occur for Linux.
Come back in the middle of 2009 and look again.
I've been hearing that for the last 12 years as well. The mess has only gotten worse and worse.
I'm not saying it won't happen eventually, it might. But it'll be a longterm deal. Things might shape up half a decade from now, but how far behind will they be by then?
6.2009 is Windows 7 release date.
Yeah, It's going to be great.
I can't wait for the ribbon UI version of Paint! It's going to be awesome.
Check out the comments:
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2008/10/flash_player_10_is_live.html
Absolutely hilarious
because that's the hard alright ? installing stuff on windows ?
Perhaps you missed it but a number of posters effectively said that OO.org is no match for MS Office.
When that was done Linux did not have anything equal to a MS ADS server.
So, in other words, it WASN'T ready for an enterprise level deployment at all. Whoever even suggested it should be fucking fired.
What part of the "migration is on track" don't you get? There wasn't an ADS alternative then, the program was designed with an alternative emerging in the near future, which it did. Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
The Munich project WILL NOT SAVE ANY MONEY. End of story. Game over.
In case you missed it before, what part of the "we won't be paying for license costs for eternity" don't you understand?
Again, we've heard this song before; so many times, in fact, that I no longer have the capacity or will to even entertain the possibility that what you're saying has a shred of hope of coming true.
It's hilarious that you don't refer to MS for this, because essentially that has been their business model for the past 20 years.
@ .net jerkface,
The following projects have had releases delayed due to a lack developers:
Xorg, OK
KDE was adding ~1 new SVN account per day until recently.
OpenOffice, is almost feature complete, huge and boring to work on. Novell has essentially taken over development.
Stallman's ideology isn't picking up enough younger programmers because they have grown up with microsoft and are comfortable with them.
So, java isn't taught at universities, nor Unix or linux.
Or Microsoft will continue to find new markets and disappoint people like you who view the software world as a holy war.
MS has failed spectacularly so far to enter new markets. Every attempt has been a huge cash drain for them. They're the industry joke with regard to their failures so far (web search, game consoles, MP3 players).
Good lord 7 years ago I never would have believed that MS would be making this much in server sales at this point. After all Linux is free, right?
Some minor details you're keen on neglecting:
windows is entrenched in the desktop market, the protocols to communicate with the server were kept secret, so MS leveraged their monopoly to dominate the server market as well. Now that EU coerced them to publish their protocols, nothing prevents samba from implementing a fully windows-compatible server. You can fill in the rest, I hope.
Linux is a programmer's os because you can look at the kernel? How many programmers actually want to do that?
Someone asked a similar question to Jeremy Allison in his zdnet blog. The OS core isn't just the kernel, it's the infrastructure upon which user applications are based. The protocols for communication between the software modules are clearly defined and available for anyone to read. This means that everything can be replaced or changed, provided that the interfaces remain stable. It also means that the behaviour of the system is clearly defined from the top to the bottom, if some problem appears, it's trivial to locate and fix.
Jeremy implied that the aforementioned person was an MS astroturfer...
Windows is about choice. Choosing what applications you want to run and what layers of the OS you want to replace.
LOL, is this the new marketing trick by MS? I've seen this stated many times regarding MS stories. Does anyone but MS astroturfers buy this? Hint: using the language of your competitors to make your product more appealing will backfire spectacularly, because you're lying. People aren't idiots.
Linux system consists bad software developed by a bunch of incompetent idiot programmers meant to be used by Microsoft-haters. Spare us the BS about ideology, at least.
Incompetent, idiot programmers make Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates himself (the... *cough* philanthropist) tour the world for the last couple of years to cut deals to save the company...
No one is funding desktop Linux. And nobody gives a shit.
Novell, Sun, Nokia, Google, Intel, IBM. Enough?
Novell, Sun, Nokia, Google, Intel, IBM. Enough?
DESKTOP Linux? You gotta be kidding me.
There's no intention or interest in proving a stable ABI, GregHK has already made tis much clear. He'll have you believe that such isn't feasible, but it's a blatant lie: FreeBSD provides not only backward ABI compatibility with older version of itself, the Linuxulator subsystem actually provides ABI compatibility with Linux. Why can the FreeBSD team do it, but the Linux kernel devs cannot?
Well not only that but FreeBSD's Linuxulator targets a stable version of the Linux kernel.
FreeBSD will very soon enable (by default) 2.6.16 systemcall mapping to the FreeBSD kernel. Linux 2.6.16 is a stable, maintained Linux kernel (despite being somewhat outdated) and supported by developer Adrian Bunk. It currently incorporates 62 bug/security patch releases.
DESKTOP Linux? You gotta be kidding me.
Nope, indeed Novell, SUN, Nokia, Google, Intel, IBM.
this fucking freetards never learn!
some quotes about the new flash:
- "give the source and we'll mantain it for you"
- "Why doesn't Adobe go (L)GPLv3 with their flash plugin, keep all the products that produce flashes commercial and watch how other people (while being angry at their original plugin's performance) fix their bad code?"
Burrix, I think you just misunderstood their freetard dialect. By "we'll fix their bad code" they actually meant "we'll fork it numerous times for various inane reasons like arguments over default fonts and the png in the about dialog. We'll then make sure compatibility between the forks is broken. After completely failing we'll again blame it on Adobe and claim their spec was bad and everything would have been fine if we controlled the spec"
Nope, indeed Novell, SUN, Nokia, Google, Intel, IBM.
You freetards can't never get it. Microsoft funds Windows development. Apple funds OS X development. Those guys are not funding desktop Linux. They are contributing somewhat to it, and most of them don't even give a fuck about the desktop. It's just not their business.
You freetards can't never get it. Microsoft funds Windows development. Apple funds OS X development. Those guys are not funding desktop Linux. They are contributing somewhat to it, and most of them don't even give a fuck about the desktop. It's just not their business.
Novell is the main contributor to KDE, along with Trolltech/Nokia, SUN funds OO.org, which is a huge project, Google is funding SoC and usability projects, Intel gfx drivers, Xorg and power-saving and IBM provides desktop software for the enterprise. Oh, and Canonical is making linux more user-friendly. What's missing? Is it a problem that they aren't only one company? What do you mean when you say it's not their business? Doesn't novell sell SLED? Should every other company sell their own distribution as well?
I propose the creation of a new organization called "Freetards Anonymous" to help freetards recover and reintegrate in society.
Novell is the main contributor to KDE, along with Trolltech/Nokia
Kids hacking "fancy fading effects"...
KDE is a complete failure:
"32 times faster deleting your home directory" -> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3683
Read the comments for "Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2": http://www.linux.com/feature/146323
Trolltech is staring to loose money, because it gets associated with KDE.
, SUN funds OO.org, which is a huge project, Google is funding SoC and usability projects, Intel gfx drivers, Xorg and power-saving and IBM provides desktop software for the enterprise. Oh, and Canonical is making linux more user-friendly. What's missing? Is it a problem that they aren't only one company? What do you mean when you say it's not their business? Doesn't novell sell SLED? Should every other company sell their own distribution as well?
These companies make money with (client-)server software, "thin clients" and advertising or just use it to live their fetish of shit brown colors and to get some friends over the internet (Canonical).
KDE is a complete failure:
"32 times faster deleting your home directory" -> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3683
That performance improvement actually made it into 4.1.2--the latest release.
@george_k: oooh, now I see the light! thanks :)
@makz: do it!, let's gather all of'em in a room, and then burn down the fucking building 'cause they'll never rehab.
OpenOffice, is almost feature complete, huge and boring to work on
If by 'almost' you mean not-enterprise quality ready, slow, buggy.. I agree.
MS has failed spectacularly so far to enter new markets. Every attempt has been a huge cash drain for them. They're the industry joke with regard to their failures so far (web search, game consoles, MP3 players).
Hmm. By that measure linux .. 17 years and 0.91% markershare is a super duper mega-spectacular failure? Or worse?
Game consoles? lol.. Maybe its too early for you to be trolling.
nothing prevents samba from implementing a fully windows-compatible server. You can fill in the rest, I hope.
Yeah and nothing prevented linux from entering the desktop market and taking over. Oh wait... what was that about linux being a better desktop? Pick your FUD, pick your argument.
The protocols for communication between the software modules are clearly defined and available for anyone to read. This means that everything can be replaced or changed, provided that the interfaces remain stable. It also means that the behaviour of the system is clearly defined from the top to the bottom, if some problem appears, it's trivial to locate and fix.
Source code as a means of documentation? Only if you're insane. Nobody has the time to wade through thousands of lines of OS code on top of their own code base, just to understand how things work. The millions of windows programs that were created based on the win32 api, didnt care about the source code. The Win32 API is as close to a rock solid well defined platform as you can get on the desktop side. Unlike the ever changing -for no reason- linux.
Novell, Sun, Nokia, Google, Intel, IBM. Enough?
How many dollars.. I mean cents.. are they generating from linux on the desktop?
What's funny about the failure of Linux is that it even fails at being Unix, since FreeBSD performs better, faster, and more reliably. Linux is just a bad UNIX clone.
@anonymous, October 17, 2008 8:35 AM
Two points of order to address. First:
OpenOffice, is almost feature complete, huge and boring to work on.
One part of this sentence is a lie, and the other part represents the reason why Linux hobbles along like a dog with three legs.
Can you guess which parts? Table layout alone in OO.o (at least the last time I used it, and I pray this has changed) was fundamentally broken when compared to Office's implementation. Additionally, if OO.o ever wants to be more than an unpolished Office knockoff, it's going to have to actually start introducing compelling new features that aren't playing catchup. And, of course, it wouldn't hurt to actually settle on some HIGs, but God knows nobody in the FOSS community could agree on that.
And yeah, it's big and not terribly exciting. Which is, ironically, the biggest point in its favor - it's a real piece of software. The unfortunate truth in the matter is that, for desktop development, whether it be office suites or operating systems, you're going to be doing a lot of boring stuff if you want it to actually be usable by people who don't give a shit about the kernel source.
Which leads me to...
Someone asked a similar question to Jeremy Allison in his zdnet blog. The OS core isn't just the kernel, it's the infrastructure upon which user applications are based. The protocols for communication between the software modules are clearly defined and available for anyone to read. This means that everything can be replaced or changed, provided that the interfaces remain stable. It also means that the behaviour of the system is clearly defined from the top to the bottom, if some problem appears, it's trivial to locate and fix.
Yes, there are certainly benefits to being able to access kernel source. However, when they're used to change that oh-so-important clear definition, the one that allows developers to actually develop good software, every six months, it's clearly a Bad Thing. Maybe not for 'free as in freedom', but for desktop use, yeah.
As someone very aptly pointed out, Windows and OS X both have some seriously solid APIs to build upon. Direct/CoreAudio, DirectX/CoreImage, etc., etc.
What nobody in the FOSS community really wants to address (because it would mean doing something mature with that 'free as in freedom' bullshit) is that having twenty different ways to do everything is certainly free, but fractures your user base (and developers) about twenty different ways as well. Pick a way to do something and make it a standard for desktop Linux. And then, when you're writing applications, write them to the standard and, more directly, to the audience.
Unix/Linux is really damn modular in the end. That's cool - quite powerful (hell, I'm an advocate of Windows moving to a microkernel of some kind). So, imagine the OS as a bucket of LEGO bricks (and a baseplate to build on). To build a piece of software, you take the bricks, put them on the baseplate, and build away. Great. That's exactly how Linux should work.
But in reality, Linux isn't a bucket of LEGO bricks. For some reason, someone mixed some shitty Megablox in there, some action figures, a cube that spins, whatever. And hell, you can build something out of that. Not going to be very good, but it'll do.
And then, someone comes along and says, "Oh, toy soldiers are deprecated, use tuxSoldier .5." So, you scramble to rebuild using tuxSoldier so that you can play with the other kids, and it works, again, sort of. Not quite the same.
Meanwhile, all the other kids have their buckets of only LEGO - sure, if they ever wanted to try to tack tuxSoldier .5 on there, they wouldn't be able to, but they have a great set of tools otherwise that just work with each other.
And rather than sorting the crazy toys out of the crazy Linux bucket, leaving only a set of good, solid parts that actually interact well with each other, people just keep adding more crap to the bucket.
Linux is freedom for programmers and programmers alone. For everyone else, it's just as inaccessible and closed, but yet far more shitty than anything else.
To the anonymous douchebag who thinks that LiMux Munich is about saving costs:
The retards that created this ridiculous project have already conceded that they will not be able to recoup costs:
http://osor.eu/case_studies/declaration-of-independence-the-limux-project-in-munich
"Rather than lowering IT costs, the main motive is the desire for strategic independence from software suppliers."
These morons spent 2 million more Euros on LiMux over what a proprietary solution would have cost -- and the interest alone on that 2 million Euros would have covered future licensing costs. Which is why they changed their stated objective from "cost-saving" to "strategic independence". If this had been done in private industry, whoever tried to sell that plan would have been fucking fired in an instant. What a bunch of morons. Look in the mirror: They ... are you.
And, of course, the ironic thing is that they aren't at all independant from software vendors - instead, they're dependant on a bunch of immature, naive idiots who won't do what is necessary to make their own preferred platform actually succeed.
And yeah sure, they can actually fix it themselves to make it work. But - surprise! - this costs money.
Who in the world needs 3d games on linux when you can run this game on your Ubuntu: http://www.asciisector.net
HAHAHA
On the other hand, the game does look interesting. I am still waiting for an ASCII 1st person shooter because I know it will definitely run in my Ubuntu no matter how hard the next update brakes my NVIDIA drivers :)
Also, OO v3 is out. But guess what? I don't see it in synaptic yet and the linux package on the OO website has like a bunch of DEBs files and no file explaining in what ORDER to install them (only way is trial and error), and no, I don't know what file to modify as root to allow gdebi find the dependencies. On the other hand, I could just download and double click the single file installer for Windows today. I am a luser and I need help... no wait... the whole Linux community needs help.
"LOL, is this the new marketing trick by MS? I've seen this stated many times regarding MS stories. Does anyone but MS astroturfers buy this? Hint: using the language of your competitors to make your product more appealing will backfire spectacularly, because you're lying. People aren't idiots."
I noticed that you couldn't disprove any claims. You can choose any application you want to run on Windows which far out number Linux applications and you can replace many components of the OS itself which again out number the amount of choices you have on Linux.
MS has failed spectacularly so far to enter new markets.
So beating Sony at their own game is a spectacular failure? What is your definition of success?
Some minor details you're keen on neglecting:
windows is entrenched in the desktop market, the protocols to communicate with the server were kept secret, so MS leveraged their monopoly to dominate the server market as well.
Microsoft's servers dominate the most where there is no 1to1 functional equivalent in the linux world (exchange, active directory). But more importantly how has Microsoft made gains when it comes to web serving? TCP/IP is an open protocol suite.
IIS is used for majority of fortune 500 websites:
http://www.search-this.com/2007/06/27/microsoft-iis-vs-apache-who-serves-more/
Now that EU coerced them to publish their protocols, nothing prevents samba from implementing a fully windows-compatible server.You can fill in the rest, I hope.
Nothing has ever stopped a company from building a file server based upon tcp/ip. But more importantly Microsoft's protocols could also have been reverse engineered like intel did with amd64. Microsoft shouldn't be penalized if the software market isn't interested in funding such endeavors. Just because a group of foss programmers can't reverse engineer them doesn't mean that Microsoft is abusing their position. You can fill in the excuses for the foss programmers, I'm sure.
The protocols for communication between the software modules are clearly defined and available for anyone to read. This means that everything can be replaced or changed, provided that the interfaces remain stable.
Most programmers want to write applications with graphical interfaces, which are best written on top of a stable api. Linux doesn't have this, and the fact that communication protocols are open source does not in any way make up for this missing feature. Most programmers don't care about how such communication works as long as their program can interact with the communication interface. What you are talking about is more useful for forking or distro building, not typical software development where problems are solved within an isolated program.
Jeremy implied that the aforementioned person was an MS astroturfer...
Oh right all criticism of linux must be a corporate conspiracy.
A lot of these same criticisms of linux were brought up in the unix hater's handbook. Maybe the authors were secretly funded by Apple at the time? Perhaps the Illuminati is involved?
Incompetent, idiot programmers make Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates himself (the... *cough* philanthropist) tour the world for the last couple of years to cut deals to save the company...
Yea people like Anders Hejlsberg and David Cutler are big idiots. I'm sure Borland thought Anders was a big dummy when he created Delphi for them.
This type of baseless arrogance leads people to care even less about linuxland. Even though Ballmer can be a prick there are lusers like yourself that really deserve to be ass-fucked by him. Bent over a desk and ass-fucked until your little slashdot attitude has been taken along with your virginity.
How much is too much? I introduced my dad to Ubuntu a year ago and I'm still his damn tech support.
LOL..
With the usual FOSS masturbation..
^
http://www.reddit.com/goto?id=76qkb
Im not sure this has anything to do with anthing... But I can't load and read slashdot on my iphone since they put all the new AJAX crapola on their front page.
wow the undying debate still growing strong. keep it up folks.
not-enterprise quality ready, slow, buggy.. I agree.
When did MS Office become enterprise-quality ready?
17 years and 0.91% markershare is a super duper mega-spectacular failure? Or worse?
Linux became ready for the desktop only recently. Give it a rest, will you?
Game consoles? lol.. Maybe its too early for you to be trolling.
No trolling by me.
Yeah and nothing prevented linux from entering the desktop market and taking over. Oh wait... what was that about linux being a better desktop? Pick your FUD, pick your argument.
Let me write this as simple as possible: linux lacked until recently the components to enter the enterprise desktop market.
Source code as a means of documentation? Only if you're insane. Nobody has the time to wade through thousands of lines of OS code on top of their own code base, just to understand how things work.
Source code should be only required to make the changes. When things get stabilized, more documentation will become available.
The Win32 API is as close to a rock solid well defined platform as you can get on the desktop side. Unlike the ever changing -for no reason- linux.
Sure, that's why MS is trying to deprecate it.
How many dollars.. I mean cents.. are they generating from linux on the desktop?
Not much I guess. My turn now: how much were the linux pioneers generating when they started their linux business?
Can you guess which parts? Table layout alone in OO.o (at least the last time I used it, and I pray this has changed) was fundamentally broken when compared to Office's implementation.
"Almost feature complete" doesn't mean it has no bugs.
but fractures your user base (and developers) about twenty different ways as well. Pick a way to do something and make it a standard for desktop Linux. And then, when you're writing applications, write them to the standard and, more directly, to the audience.
Agreed.
These morons spent 2 million more Euros on LiMux over what a proprietary solution would have cost -- and the interest alone on that 2 million Euros would have covered future licensing costs.
Well, the city expects to save €3 million over the next five years merely because of license savings.
Which is why they changed their stated objective from "cost-saving" to "strategic independence".
They had 2 options:
1. The MS solution would cost €35 million in order to preserve the same functionality, i.e. pay €35 million and gain nothing of interest to them (they were running on NT4 and were satisfied with it),
2. The OSS solution cost €37 million in order to become independent of any vendors and plan their expenses without relying on third-parties for eternity. Support is offered by their IT department and various other companies, should the need ever arise. Part of the investment (€4 million) returns immediately to the local economy, the long-term benefits are obvious to most... normal people.
What a bunch of morons. Look in the mirror: They ... are you.
You choose option #1 and call me a moron. I take it as a compliment from you.
Windows is about choice. Choosing what applications you want to run and what layers of the OS you want to replace.
I noticed that you couldn't disprove any claims. You can choose any application you want to run on Windows which far out number Linux applications and you can replace many components of the OS itself which again out number the amount of choices you have on Linux.
I thought it would be redundant, since Jeremy Allison wrote about this better than I could. The fact that MS was recently coerced to publish some of their protocols speaks volumes. I have no idea what would make anyone think otherwise, even MS employees are more clever than that.
So beating Sony at their own game is a spectacular failure? What is your definition of success?
You skipped the next line, which in addition to the one you quote change the meaning to "MS has spectacularly failed to make a profit entering new markets."
But more importantly how has Microsoft made gains when it comes to web serving? TCP/IP is an open protocol suite.
IIS integrates better with other MS software (Office, windows kernel (!), SQL server). They had the OS monopoly, by integrating everything else, no matter how good as standalone software it might have been, they leveraged it to increase marketshare in the web server segment.
IIS is used for majority of fortune 500 websites:
This is further evidence to support what I wrote above. Why do you think that apache wins among web serving companies?
Nothing has ever stopped a company from building a file server based upon tcp/ip.
Is samba a file server only?
Microsoft shouldn't be penalized if the software market isn't interested in funding such endeavors.
Well, I'm certain that the EU never bothered to ask for your opinion on this.
Just because a group of foss programmers can't reverse engineer them doesn't mean that Microsoft is abusing their position.
How was samba written before the protocol details were published? Do you have any idea what interoperability means?
You forgot the last line: "We should be thankful to MS for publishing their protocols"!
You can fill in the excuses for the foss programmers, I'm sure.
Do you want me to say that they could fully reverse-engineer MS protocols, when MS changes them on every minor version of their OS for no reason? What exactly do you want me to say? FOSS programmers have repeatedly demonstrated that they can handle much larger projects, projects that no other company had the resources to deal with.
Oh right all criticism of linux must be a corporate conspiracy.
Is there a sane, not paid by MS, person in the world that believes that one can delete internet explorer from a windows system and replace it with firefox?
======================================
1.The quote:
Linux system consists bad software developed by a bunch of incompetent idiot programmers meant to be used by Microsoft-haters. Spare us the BS about ideology, at least.
2. My response:
Incompetent, idiot programmers make Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates himself (the... *cough* philanthropist) tour the world for the last couple of years to cut deals to save the company...
3. .net jerkface's response to mine:
Yea people like Anders Hejlsberg and David Cutler are big idiots. I'm sure Borland thought Anders was a big dummy when he created Delphi for them.
[]Bent over a desk and ass-fucked until your little slashdot attitude has been taken along with your virginity.
4.a. The typical slashdot response version:
... PROFIT!
4.b. The not so typical: Julian, I miss your wit sorely these times!
.net jerkface, why are you getting so angry lately?
Linux became ready for the desktop only recently. Give it a rest, will you?
That's what I heard on 1998 when KDE 1.0 was released. No, we're not giving it a rest. We're tired of the it was not ready but it is now that we've been hearing for over a decade. Desktop Linux is a pile of shit. Get over it already.
To the bums that think Munich is 'saving' on license fees: Considering that they are having a very tough time getting the wretched Limux system to do anything for them, may be they ought to just stop using computers altogether. That will save them even more money in computer-related expense.
All software is going to need somebody to maintain it, and support it. There will always be support expenses. Open Sores may not have a 'license' cost per se, but whatever name you call it by, you will pay. You may not pay MS, but you will pay somebody. From the looks of it, Munich will end up paying a whole lot more for their decision to 'become independent of Microsoft'.
The Linux crowd completely screwed the citizens of Munich. Munich will toil for 10 to 15 years only to end up where it started. This will teach people to stay the hell away from Linux and its lying supporters.
That's what I heard on 1998 when KDE 1.0 was released. No, we're not giving it a rest. We're tired of the it was not ready but it is now that we've been hearing for over a decade.
Was windows 2.0 ready for the desktop?
The Linux crowd completely screwed the citizens of Munich. Munich will toil for 10 to 15 years only to end up where it started. This will teach people to stay the hell away from Linux and its lying supporters.
Do you have anything to offer but FUD?
Do you have anything to offer but FUD?
Can you get your head out of your ass? The enormous amount of time the Linux bums are taking to migrate even a tiny percentage of the machines may not give a clue to Linux's idiot supporters. But, everybody else got it.
The Munich experience already led Berlin to cancel its Linux migration plans. There's no uncertainty about the Linux desktop. It is a dud.
Was windows 2.0 ready for the desktop?
I find the comparison very telling. You think maybe Linux will catch up with windows 95 anytime soon?
IIS integrates better with other MS software (Office, windows kernel (!), SQL server).
Ok, even if everything else you wrote was true (which isn't), please explain HOW is IIS integrated with SQL Server? Or stop spreading this FOSS bullshit how everything on Windows is all tightly connected and nobody else can do anything.
I've been using IIS to write ASP in Perl many years ago, and using MySql database (which is another FOSS PoS, but that's another story).
Is there a sane, not paid by MS, person in the world that believes that one can delete internet explorer from a windows system and replace it with firefox?
Why does one have to delete Internet Explorer to put Firefox on a machine? Ain't this Open Sores thing all about choice?
Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom, made IE a part of its OS. [ I think they hate to be told what they can and cannot make a part of their OS. ] You should not try to remove IE and still expect Windows to function flawlessly.
When did MS Office become enterprise-quality ready?
Like 15 years back....
PS - Did this seriously deserve a response???
Is samba a file server only?
No but printer services can also be offered through tcp/ip. Both XP and Vista can be easily setup for UNIX printing services over the internet.
IIS integrates better with other MS software (Office, windows kernel (!), SQL server).
The vast majority of IIS websites don't use sql server and office isn't used a service. I don't see what the windows kernel has to do with anything. Websites are something that can be built and hosted with foss without the user knowing the difference. However IIS has still made gains against Linux in this area.
You skipped the next line, which in addition to the one you quote change the meaning to "MS has spectacularly failed to make a profit entering new markets."
They took a financial hit to enter the console market which was a part of their plan. Now they are outselling the playstation 3 and making a profit on the 360. So what was your point again?
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/25/the-xbox-360-turns-a-profit-again/
Do you want me to say that they could fully reverse-engineer MS protocols, when MS changes them on every minor version of their OS for no reason? What exactly do you want me to say? FOSS programmers have repeatedly demonstrated that they can handle much larger projects,
Not all FOSS teams are equal. If a group of volunteer programmers fail at reverse-engineering some protocols I wouldn't blame the company that made those protocols. So what if they keep updating, they don't want you to reverse engineer their technology. What haven't FOSS groups been able to reverse-engineer flash? Must be the fault of Adobe for not making it easier to do. What bastards.
@Kyle
Pick a way to do something and make it a standard for desktop Linux. And then, when you're writing applications, write them to the standard and, more directly, to the audience.
That's just crazy enough to work!
-derChef
And friend of linux hater:
http://www.promotinglinux.com/
Have fun fellow haters!
Even Linus himself wishes he could design his kernel as well as Microsoft has.
Linus wishes he had 10% of the wealth as Bill gates. Sadly no body wants his garbage.
RMS is much smarter. He realized long ago that he could not make a fool of the majority, so instead he started his GNU cult.
@Kyle
Pick a way to do something and make it a standard for desktop Linux. And then, when you're writing applications, write them to the standard and, more directly, to the audience.
Issue that is basically done. LSB(Linux Standard Base) 4.0 provides run everywhere. LSB 4.1 provides install everywhere. LSB 4.0 is in November.
Using a little installation hack until 4.1 gets released no problems. Enough of the common platform is created.
Before LSB 4.0 any distribution to run a LSB application had to support LSB. Game has changed in under a month there will be a way to produce a application that runs everywhere in the Linux world backed by a ISO registered standard.
There's no uncertainty about the Linux desktop. It is a dud.
Funny enough same line was used about Windows NT server when it was first put forward to market. Did not handle load that well compared to the big Unix's so was said would never make itself anywhere in business.
This was mostly true until Windows 2000 was released with a ADS to central manage. Remember pre 2000 Novell was the dominate business network solution. It had held that for about 9 years when it went splat too. Is history repeating again?
Know history its important. Every point there are keystone events that change outcomes.
Needed keystones for Linux.
Single ABI to build applications. Under 1 month off.
Single way to install applications about 8 to 10 months off at worse.
Central management non ADS about 3 months off.
Crash protected X11 about 5 months.
Calling the Munich Linux migration 100 percent failure is wrong. Keystones were not in place for the migration to work simply.
Munich was hard. Future ones will have lot less problems to face. Thinking Munich is marked for complete in 2012 and they are talking about a 80 percent migration by the middle of next year. Same reasons I just stated explain the sudden jump. Lot of complexity of running a large network of Linux machines with desktop secuirty will disappear. Same way windows complexity reduced with the release of ADS.
History does not for tell the future without understanding history. Because if history of NT failures in market was its out come 2008 server and XP would not exist. History shows you what events will most likely cause what effect.
Looking at Linux history shows a keystones that are critical to building a OS. Linux is not alone in its mistakes. Unix's also made the same mistakes. History repeated itself. Now Linux copy how MS got where it is now? Will the same repeat happen? By the middle of 2009 we should know there should be enough signs if the keystones that are changing are the true secrets of making a world leading OS.
Its really time to cool off and watch. The complete history of Linux these keystones have never really changed. LSB has promised them a few times but due to distribution in fighting never landed. Ie working on the IDEA that Distributions would help with this. LSB 4.0 release basically drops that idea. There will always be Linux Distributions that will try to resist so design something where it does not matter is the new idea.
Many keystones have changed. Outcome is no longer predictable. Will Linux be a failure in 12 months. Anyone who says they know for sure is a fool. Too much is changing in that time frame.
Even Linus himself wishes he could design his kernel as well as Microsoft has.
You got to be kidding me. NT design was formed basically off the start line. Sad bit is a few design faults did get in at the start. Really there is no way to get these design faults out without killing NT off. MS is talking about doing that in 2012.
Linux kernel design is highly flexable and has mostly open source drivers. This is kinda key. Since drivers are open source any key design flaw can be removed from the main kernel. Simple fact Linux will be around long time after NT design has had to be dropped due to its defects.
Who designed the better long term kernel model. Linus because it can keep on changing to match the conditions it has to work in and become the best. If you look at linux it has be absorbing the best features of many OS's. Its still in design.
Note the closed source driver idea of MS is the major cause why a lot of devices failed to work when they wanted to go to 64 bit or other platforms. NT had promise and has be ruined by a few bad design selection.
Linus' approach sucks balls. Consider, with changing technologies it is far easier to redesign the kernel than it would be to overhaul an existing kernel. Not to mention that Linus' kernels are full of hacks and other bullshit.
Not to mention that Linus' kernels are full of hacks and other bullshit.
The irony is that when viewed purely from an aesthetic point of view, the Linux kernel is a real piece of crap. Lusers love to say the real reason Microsoft won't release Windows source code is because of all the spaghetti code, but anything Linus -- a rather mediocre programmer, actually -- has done can't help but look a lot worse than anything coming from Microsoft. Any performance advantage when compared to Windows comes only because the Linux kernel doesn't try to do 1/100th the number of things the Windows core does.
Linux kernel design is highly flexable
No. Quite the opposite. It's a set of hacks upon hacks that still doesn't prove compatibility or a set of stable APIs. From a software-engineering point of view, it's a miserable failure, doing a few core things really well and failing at everything else.
If you look at linux it has be absorbing the best features of many OS's. Its still in design.
Oh, come now. Arguing something is unfinished to explain away instability after 17 fucking years is the worse bullshit I've seen from a luser in a long time.
Thinking Munich is marked for complete in 2012 and they are talking about a 80 percent migration by the middle of next year.
That's because they scaled back the plan and kept Windows on most machines. Keep moving those goalposts until you can declare victory!
@ Anonymous, October 19, 2008 4:27 AM
Issue that is basically done. LSB(Linux Standard Base) 4.0 provides run everywhere. LSB 4.1 provides install everywhere. LSB 4.0 is in November.
You don't get it. LSB is bullshit - it's a subset of Linux distros deciding, totally arbitrarily, what they will support. That is not the same.
Checked out their audio stuff. ALSA. Wait, I thought PulseAudio was the new hotness? No? Yes? Who knows!
Look at LSB sound, then look at DirectX/CoreAudio, and tell me that's the same. I'll give you a hint - no compatibility is really guaranteed on the Linux side. If you wrote an application that used DX4 features, then installed it on a computer with DX9, it'd still run. But if you wrote a Linux app with the sound processing du jour, two years later, fat chance of it working again, even if it's the same audio system.
You think the LSB will actually solve this? No, it'll just say, "Hey guys, for the three distros that are using this, we're running MEGAudio now, so catch up!"
And rather than looking at Windows/OSX to realize exactly how far away you are from Desktop Linux (read: another decade at least, at this rate, and that's to reach the UE sophistication that Windows/OSX enjoys right now), you just pretend Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have horns sticking out of their heads and little dollar sign pupils.
You can have the most technically sophisticated operating system in the world (which you don't, just FYI), but if it's totally unusable and difficult to program for, then it might as well not exist.
Linux has some serious work cut out for it. It starts with one distribution doing something radically different and focusing on the user experience, rather than the supposed Linux ideals of 'freedom.'
Netbooks, the area supposedly where Linux is king:
The netbook newbie's guide to Linux
Want to get a list of machines on the LAN, something which Windows accomplishes with Network Neighborhood and Mac with the sidebar in Finder?
Just fire up the command line, install Samba with the obviously named 'yum', configure it, set up a mountpoint so it appears in the file manager.
Change networks? Just reconfigure Samba.
Fail.
You don't get it. LSB is bullshit - it's a subset of Linux distros deciding, totally arbitrarily, what they will support. That is not the same.
No you missed the ISV revolt in LSB.
If you are needing stable audio on Linux there is more than 1 way. Going threw jackaudio even if you program was from when jackaudio was created it would work on current day jackaudio longer backwards compadiblie than the solution you said.
gstreamer and other solutions exist as well. All mean you can completely forget about pulseaudio and alsa problems.
You think the LSB will actually solve this? No, it'll just say, "Hey guys, for the three distros that are using this, we're running MEGAudio now, so catch up!"
Nop LSB will define a set of test cases for ALSA that will have to be passed into the future. Also plans to have wrapping apis. Pulseaudio basically dropped off table.
Distributions cannot solve the Linux problem no matter what they do. Linux Standard base ISV's are the way forward. Please note its the ISV's that have put distribution independence for applications on table. Meaning distrobutions don't have to catch up to LSB. If they don't ISV's can just ship with parts they are missing.
This has causes things like http://www.packagekit.org/pk-intro.html to appear.
Over time LSB will not be linked to any distrobution at all. The important step forward.
I guess you don't get way its so important. Currently there is over 1 million developers working on distrobutions duplicating work of each other. Now those 1 million developers working userfriendlyness would be good. Why are they working on building the same packages slightly altered for there distrobutions. Even failing to provide users with upto date versions.
The more distro netural interfaces that get formed less important distrobutions are. Until one day they basically not important at all.
If you are needing stable audio on Linux there is more than 1 way.
That's the frickin' problem, fanboy.
Currently there is over 1 million developers working on distrobutions duplicating work of each other.
A million developers working on Linux distributions? Link or the assertion is wrong.
What is the linuxland equivalent of visual studio?
Visual Studio is perhaps the biggest, most bloated, and most expensive ide out there.
The Win32 API is as close to a rock solid well defined platform as you can get on the desktop side
But it's still a complete pain in the ass to work with. Not to mention the terrible documentation.
The irony is that when viewed purely from an aesthetic point of view, the Linux kernel is a real piece of crap. Lusers love to say the real reason Microsoft won't release Windows source code is because of all the spaghetti code, but anything Linus -- a rather mediocre programmer, actually -- has done can't help but look a lot worse than anything coming from Microsoft. Any performance advantage when compared to Windows comes only because the Linux kernel doesn't try to do 1/100th the number of things the Windows core does.
Pulling alot of shit of of your ass there. Linus a mediocre programmer??? You might want to cite your sources of this bullshit.
Pulling alot of shit of of your ass there. Linus a mediocre programmer??? You might want to cite your sources of this bullshit.
I spent years at a major reseller cleaning up his crap. I was involved with that festering pile of crap every day for five years until I realized the codebase was never going to get better. Like many here, I was intimately involved with Linux before realizing what a waste it was.
You wrote:
"The Win32 API is as close to a rock solid well defined platform as you can get on the desktop side
But it's still a complete pain in the ass to work with. Not to mention the terrible documentation."
Gotta call you on that, cowboy. The documentation from MS, including the KnowledgeBase, is miles ahead of anything in the Linux work. Yes, it's not easy to work with, especially for Linux amateurs, but documentation is not one of the problems.
Plus, in the real world, most of us would rather work with a not-the-greatest standard than none at all, and there's simply no standard way to write Linux apps.
"Visual Studio is perhaps the biggest, most bloated, and most expensive ide out there."
But also the most useful. And it looks like you have never heard of the Express editions, which mitigate the high cost.
gcc is the industry standard C \ C++ compiler.
Far from it. ICC is still the standard on x86 archs, and msvc is still the most widely deployed, by far.
There is nothing that even comes close to the level of processor support of gcc.
Most compilers don't need to support that many architectures. supporting multiple achs doesn't make a compiler 'good', per say, except in FOSS where supporting every archetecture under the sun gives devs a hardon. Look at many real-world examples:MS only needs to support two archs (x86 and IA_64), Sun as well, (Sparc and x86), IBM supports mostly Power/PPC and x86), HP does IA_64, etc. Even the GCC team acknowledges that GCC islargely an x86 compiler suite and performance on other platforms is lagging behind.
It's really so good that GPL-hating *BSD uses gcc,
GPL-hating? BSD doesn't give two shiys about the GPL, as long it doesn't claim the moral high ground and preach about sharing with the up[dtream, only to relicense BSD code and effectively cut off the upstream, while sti;ll claiming the moral high ground. (the problemisn't the relcensing, it's the hipocrecy). GCC is included because it's there, and because the licensing permits it, and because it's good enough for the time being. Don't kid yourself, it'll be replaced the moment a BSD licensed compiler becomes availible.
and even Mac OS X and all of it's software is compiled with gcc.
Which still doesn't make it an industry standard. A standard on OS X, sure. Standard in OSS, given. But an industry standard that's only used on < 10% of systems out there?
Sure, that's why MS is trying to deprecate it.
Way to not even bother trying to refute the point there, buddy. Deprecation doesn't detract from the stability, robustness or usefullness of an API.
Carbon, for example was a rock solid, robust API for Mac OS. It was eventually deprecated and replaced by Cocoa. Not because Carbon was all of a sudden, a worthless pile of shit, but because both something better came along, and there eventually comes a time when a framework or AAPI can no longer be imporoved, and it's time to move forward.
Win32 has already been by and large deprecated, though deprecated does not have the same meaning to sane people as it does to freetards. It's been largely relegated to the WoW32 subsystem (similarly, the 16-bit APIs live in the WoW16 subsystem).
Eventually win32 will be completely superseded by the .NET framework, which is as stable, but more robust and more flexible. First, however .NET needs to be bootstrapped into Windows (bootstrapping is when a framework is self-written and self-built, like how Java is written in Java and built in Java. As it stands .NET is built on top of win32).
Thing is, in Windows land, where deprecated means 'relegated from centre stage to a compatibility susbsystem' The 'deprecated' API is still there to target. the code still runs, it's just that the headers and SDKs are no longer updated. since developers *should* be using the core API.
So we've introduced a couple of new concepts to Freetards, today. Stable APIs, backward compatability, and knowing when to move forward.
Visual Studio is bloated as in "has a ton of features I won't use"? Doesn't matter. It works really well with any project.
Distributions cannot solve the Linux problem no matter what they do.
You got that right. The Linux problem can't be solved.
Visual Studio is bloated?
Open a simple "hello world" project in VS, and than a "hello world" project in Eclipse.
Now look at the memory consumption of the two IDEs.
Eclipse consumes 200mb more than IDE.
EPIC FAIL.
Have been using windows since ver 3.1. Now i've got ubuntu dual boot on an XP machine. Spending less time on the XP OS coz ubuntu is snappier. Didnt even need to install drivers for anything. Hate linux? For what?
@worksForMe Anon
Fool
Hello every one! Its me: Barack Obama
Have been using windows since ver 3.1. Now i've got ubuntu dual boot on an XP machine. Spending less time on the XP OS coz ubuntu is snappier. Didnt even need to install drivers for anything. Hate linux? For what?
I'm here to read your fortune. There you go:
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
@anonymous: "Well, the city expects to save €3 million over the next five years merely because of license savings. "
Are you fucking retarded? Munich freely admits that they won't save money COMPARED TO THE COMMERCIAL SOLUTION, given the fact that they spent €2 million more TODAY. In other words, the licensing cost is a BULLSHIT ISSUE. The savings that Munich could have had TODAY would have paid for any future licensing costs. You can't seem to get that concept through your thick skull. Which makes me hope that you continue to be a cheerleader for other FOSS projects -- those morons can use more idiots to help them go down in flames...
Visual Studio is perhaps the biggest, most bloated, and most expensive ide out there.
Compared to that bloated pile of shit, Eclipse? I don't think so.
The Linux problem can't be solved.
I think you fail to see it is solved.
When I say audio can be solved more than one way take note it was not possible in a dependable way before Linux Standard Bases 4.0 code to control the dynamic loader.
Most likely its that you guys don't understand that change. If you control the dynamic loader you control the ABI you have to use. So lets say you choose gstreamer or one of the other cross platform audio interfaces for you applications.
Solve alone method is. Make your applications with a installer that detects if gstreamer is there if its the right version use it if not install you own.
Solve as a group method talk to the developer of like gstreamer that makes a stable api and abi into releasing a LSB package and having a common way of downloading and installing. Gsteamer is just as module base as Direct X audio when it was crossing win9x and win NT. LSB 4.1 solve as a team.
Without solving the dynamic linker there was no exact work around.
Plus, in the real world, most of us would rather work with a not-the-greatest standard than none at all, and there's simply no standard way to write Linux apps. Sorry wrong. Everyone forgets about having to ship MS C++ runtimes and the like that you applications work. Look at Linux the same way with the next Linux Standard Base and its not really a problem.
I think you fail to see it is solved.
Muhahaha. You are a true tuxbeliever!
Is this blog the neverending debate? The same shit gets repeated over and over by both sides. You won't convince either side. Wintards, have fun with Windows. Mactards, have fun Mac OS X. Lintards, have fun with Linux. BUT FOR FUCKS SAKE, SHUT THE FUCK UP! ALL OF YOU.
- management
@Fucktard: "BUT FOR FUCKS SAKE, SHUT THE FUCK UP! ALL OF YOU.
"
Fuck you, you fucking fuck!
@Anonymous: "Solve alone method is. Make your applications with a installer that detects if gstreamer is there if its the right version use it if not install you own."
Hey, dipshit. Would you please take a fucking basic course in conversational English? I get really tired of tripping all over your Eurotrash brand of "Engrish".
Netbeans is much better competitor to Visual Studio. Plus, its cross platform, which gives it bonus points.
Is this blog the neverending debate?
You must be new to slashdot. Wait a minute, you must be new to the internets.
http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&2008/10/06/07/42/08-linux-distro-hating-week-oct-6-1
Linux is the OS of choice for pedophiles, racists, and rapists.
Anonymous @ October 21, 2008 12:29 AM
I realize you were trying to be a troll... But you fail at trolling. I was always confused on slashdot, when some guy would admit to being a pedophile and getting off to kiddy porn, and express his dismay that people were not more understanding of his sexual needs... He would get +5 informative And it would spawn a whole sub thread of sympathetic posts, with like one person calling it and getting modded -1 troll.
LOL, I just remembered the most recent incident of that...
Guy who took laptop across border with his kiddy porn on it, got nailed at border. Stupid TSA guys shut computer off and the laptop reverted to encrypted status.
IIRC that guy got lots of sympathy.
Oh and the other notable recent incident showing that the Slashdot crowd is a bunch of scumbags. Hans Reiser! All during the trial, the slashdot coverage was absolutely abhorrent. Those guys went to any length to try and hold onto the notion that he was innocent. EVEN AFTER HE CONFESSED AND LED INVESTIGATORS TO BODY.
I even remember some argument that the Reiser file system was too important to society and that Hans should not go to jail on that basis.
Is there a sane, not paid by MS, person in the world that believes that one can delete internet explorer from a windows system and replace it with firefox?
Who cares if you can't uninstall it? You can install and use wherever browser you like. So quit bitching.
If someone didn't noticed yet:
"As of version 8.10 we are not shipping Edubuntu CDs. You can either download Edubuntu or request an Ubuntu CD instead."
So... Mr Dragon is cutting costs or rather going to spend next holidays on ISS again? ;-)
Oh, I'm not trolling. I'm serious. It is the OS of choice of pedophiles, racists, and rapists. A study confirmed it.
Anyone here try GoboLinux?
A pretty interesting distribution. It completely alters the standard *nix file hierarchy but remains 100% compatible for applications with hard-coded paths and unaltered *nix shell scripts.
While the new directory structure makes things human-readable, its main advantage is the ability to have multiple versions of libraries and applications installed simultaneously. GoboLinux uses a small kernel extension that hides the Unix-compatibility symbolic links for /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /etc, /var, etc.
Gobo does some other interesting things like trashing the SysV and BSD-style init systems in favor of simple boot scripts. The root account name can also be changed in addition to the password. There is no /root directory but rather a user name with admin privileges.
I suppose GoboLinux still sucks because it uses the Linux kernel and CLI-based configuration tools, but at least the kernel isn't bleeding edge--2.6.24/25. Bleeding-edge Linux kernels tend to break proprietary driver modules.
I think I'll play with GoboLinux for awhile, until PC-BSD/FreeBSD obtains a native Flashplayer. Swfdec sucks afterall and Wine Firefox crashes more than I'd like.
Oh, I'm not trolling. I'm serious. It is the OS of choice of pedophiles, racists, and rapists. A study confirmed it.
That would be inferring that Linux actually has users because there are millions of pedophiles, racists, and rapists too.
I think your study (out of your behind) needs wiping.
"That would be inferring that Linux actually has users because there are millions of pedophiles, racists, and rapists too."
He didn't say thah. YOU said that. Thanks for the confirmation, now the guy can add that to his study.
//Solve alone method is.//
English much write you do? Stick with OOO, yoda ballsucker.
Keep drumming the 0.91% drum from an invalid source.
http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/linux_carried_along_on_netbooks_wave
For example, notebooks with Linux make up about 5.5% of the notebook market in Germany
That is 5.5% of the ENTIRE notebook market, not UMPC.
Linux pre-installs on computers sold in the UK were at almost zero before.
In June 2008, they were at 2.8% of all systems sold in the UK
Expect to see country after country with similar stats, Linux riding the UMPC wave, except for the US where MS still dictates that they must be harder to find.
Shame that MS has no real offering for the UMPC. XP is deprecated severely and absolutely insecure on it's own. That's what you want, a UMPC bogged with the mandatory AV.
Windows 7 can't come soon enough, hope it runs on the UMPC since the XP stop gap is no panacea.
Netbooks represent 13.5% of the market this year (to date) and expected to double for next year. Seriously, how many ways can Net Applications re-massage the data to send the message Redmond wants to see?
Netbooks saw an explosion in sales in the past year (especially the original Eee), however, how many were preinstalled with Linux which was then trashed for XP?
And you look on amazon's most sold list and Windows models overwhelmingly outsell the Linux models.
Netbooks saw an explosion in sales in the past year (especially the original Eee), however, how many were preinstalled with Linux which was then trashed for XP?
And you look on amazon's most sold list and Windows models overwhelmingly outsell the Linux models
MSI reports that returns for Linux models are nearly 4 times higher than Windows models. And, really, what the fuck do they expect? The desktop experience with Linux is horrible.
MSI reports that returns for Linux models are nearly 4 times higher than Windows models. And, really, what the fuck do they expect? The desktop experience with Linux is horrible.
The customized distributions shipped on netbooks are dumb down that even monkeys can use it.
The reason it has so many returns is simple--people were expecting all their Windows applications to work seamlessly out-of-the-box.
Real story:
Windows Live Messenger and Norton Anti-Virus will not open! This laptop is garbage!
Dell has been pimping their Ubuntu-based Dell Latitude 9 in major newspapers lately, one may wonder how long it will take for Microsoft "representatives" dressed in black to bust into Micheal Dell office.
MSI reports that returns for Linux models are nearly 4 times higher than Windows models. And, really, what the fuck do they expect?
MSI's lame Linux effort has been thoroughly debunked. Asus, Acer and Dell, with their custom versions are doing very well (50-50 per the links provided). Now, show me ONE place where I can purchase a Linux MSI Wind. Seriously, try to find one. It's a lame effort.
On the Amazon front, I have no doubt the XP versions are hotter sellers in the past 2 months, the Linux versions are hard to find after the first run sold out. They have some EEEs back in stock but only one Acer I could find.
Windows 7 is going to suck ass.
It really is a catch 22. XP truly sucks from a security point of view, but is the only OS MS has that runs on UMPCs. It is only a matter of time before people say "enough"
http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=441
The mean time to infection is less than five minutes,” said Richie Lai, who is part of Microsoft’s Internet Safety Enforcement Team
...
Microsoft investigators “were amazed recently to find a botnet that turned on the Microsoft Windows Update feature after taking over a computer, to defend its host from an invasion of competing infections.
...
First, take Microsoft’s Malicious Software Removal Tool out for a ride. Then make sure your firewall is up and you’re up to date with all security patches.
Then pray. Because these zombies are hard to find, much less kill. Just last week, Secunia, a computer security firm, tested a dozen leading PC security suites and found that the best one detected only 64 out of 300 software vulnerabilities.
In a friendly world, XP might be fine, but we don't live in that world. Keep that in mind when you run XP and your AV, the BEST, the very best, detected 21.3%. How many of you running XP are 0wned right now and will never know.
Note, the story is from today.
Windows 7 will be the XP killer but nothing more.
The features listed on Wikipedia are unimpressive so far. Although Paint and Wordpad with the Office 2007 ribbon interface is somewhat interesting.
It is only a matter of time before people say "enough"
I think it has already started. Customers are returning their linux netbooks rather quickly...
In a friendly world, XP might be fine, but we don't live in that world.
If you think linux is immune to malware and viruses, you're brainwashed by the GNU cult. In which case the best I can do is offer you some medication since the cult is immune to reason and logic.
Keep that in mind when you run XP and your AV, the BEST, the very best, detected 21.3%.
Bullshit.
AV Detection rate is 99%. The 21% figure was for software vulnerabilities. Is it true that using linux rots your brain? Looks like we're getting closer to knowing the answer.
Software vulnerabilities are exploited to install malware. Who knew!? WOW.
How many of you running XP are 0wned right now and will never know.
How many lusers know that they are running a crappy, buggy OS with fucked up hardware support that will break the next time they update the OS?
Its true that user education is lacking .. OTOH, it could be said that the brainwashing/indoctrination in the GNU cult is complete for some users.
Windows 7 == Vista + SP2 + shitloads of hype
How many of you running XP are 0wned right now and will never know.
Well, with Linux you don't need the change to get malware. It's crippled by default.
Windows 7 == Vista + SP2 + shitloads of hype
There's nothing in this world more hyped than Linux. The difference being, of course, that people actually use Windows.
@anonymous at October 22, 2008 1:01 AM
LOL, hype??? I dont think tat means what you think it means. Microsoft un-hypes their operating system. Their whole recent advertising campaign based on the idea that there is nothing interesting or even notable about windows at all.
In fact, Microsoft is now saying that one of the problems with Vista is that it got hyped too much and they are just gonna call the next version "Windows 7".
Were you born that stupid, or did you have to try really hard?
Nope, indeed Novell, SUN, Nokia, Google, Intel, IBM.
Sun, they're perhaps the largest contributor to open source in general, yes. But don't mistake that for investing in Linux, per say. They contribute to Linux, too. But to think for even a second that their major focus is anything but Solaris, you'd have to be completely insane. That's where Sun makes their money: The ultra-high end server market, which is completely dominated by Sun's Solaris/UltraSparc stack and IBM's AIX/Power stack.
And even given that Sun sells low and middle end Linux/x86 packages, it's largely used as a means to transition to a Solaris/AMD and eventually, Solaris/Sparc package come upgrade-time. Ever notice that Sun doesn't really contribute to Linux on Sparc?
IBM, granted, they're invested something like a billion USD into Linux ON THE SERVER. But, like Sun, they offer Linux packages on the low and middle end as a tool to make the transition to AIX on Power Blade packages come upgrade time. Don't kid yourself, IBM doesn't really care much for the desktop, it isn't in their best interest. Even OS/2 was (and still is) a player in the embedded market.
Ever notice that IBM never really contributed to Linux on PowerPC, or that Linux still doesn't run on Power natively? (Hint: PPC Linux can be run on Power archs, because PPC is essentially a very small subset of the Power arch's instruction set, but don't mistake this as "native").
Nokia is a telecom company. They have absolutely no interest in Linux on the desktop. None whatsoever, as it offers them no benefit. Although they have made notable contributions to Linux and top open source, these changes and contributions center around the embedded market, since you know, Nokia makes phones, after all, and doesn't really give two shits about the desktop market. You'll also note that Nokia's phones run Symbian, and in case you still don't get it, that meant "not Linux". Most significantly, MiniMo, which is an attempt to get Mozilla to run on embedded systems (again, as in not on the desktop, and not centered on Linux), Matchbox, which is an implementation of X11 on embedded devices (again, as in not the desktop, and not centered on Linux) and GTK-WebCore, which is an implementation of Apple's WebKit on GTK (again, not specific to Linux, and primarily for use on embedded systems).
Google. Lovely. Yes, they use Linux on their servers. But it's used internally, meaning they don't distribute it, meaning they aren't bound by the GPL to give code back. Also notice that "server" here, and in all other contexts, means "Not the Desktop".
Admitedly, they submitted hundreds of patches to Wine in the process of getting Picassa to work on it.
Google's Android is Linux-based, which entails significant changes to the Linux kernel (these changes are distributed, and shared with upstream, mind you). But you'll note that Android is a mobile phone, not a desktop. Google also supports the XO, but if you're going to claim that as support for Linux on the desktop instead of support for third world development initiative, frankly, you're a small, small person, and should crawl back into your hole, KTHNXbai.
And there's Chromium, but you'll note that a) Chrome is Windows only for the time being, and b) it's all MIT-licensed. The point is to develop better javascript technology so that EVERYONE, including proprietary vendors can poach and incorporate a better JS VM. Also, take not that Google does have a desktop OS in development, and it's isn't Linux distribution. It's in fact, Haiku, which is based on BeOS.
That leaves Novell. Yes, they've all but abandoned NetWare, and they're a 99% Linux-centric company now. Although they still focus on Linux on the enterprise and Linux on the server, of the companies you've named they're the only one who actually contribute to Linux on the desktop (and have a vested interest in it, no less), by proving the Mono Framework, Evolution, and employing the core of the Gnome team. Pity nobody gives a sghit, because it's so much more fun to hate them for having the common sense to see that it's in their (and who uses Linux)'s best interest to take the initiative to interoperate with Microsoft. Interoperability with MS will be the single greatest contribution to desktop Linux. But nobody wants it. Pure comedy.
It's pretty funny though, all these contributions to server and embedded Linux actually hurts desktop Linux by diluting and bloating the codebase. An OS which tries to do everything and be everything to everyone ultimately fails at delivering a good product for any given task. It's the exemplification of the old adage "Jack of all trades, master of none".
Congratulations, you've succeeded in refuting your own point by trying to argue it. You win three intarnets!
What's funny about the failure of Linux is that it even fails at being Unix, since FreeBSD performs better, faster, and more reliably. Linux is just a bad UNIX clone.
Even more comical is that FreeBSD is a better Linux that Linux. It's not uncommon for commercial Linux-only binaries to perform better on FreeBSD's Linuxulator than they do natively on Linux. It's always funny when UT's Linux port has better framerates on FreeBSD than on Linux.
Note, though, that yes, Linux a a Unix clone (actually the gnu userland is a clone of the UNIX userland, and the kernel is a clone of a clone). While FreeBSD isn't. It's forked directly from 4.4BSD's codebase.
FreeBSD is UNIX, Linux isn't. Which is probably why Linux sucks at Unix, while FreeBSD doesn't. Who'd have thought?
IIS is used for majority of fortune 500 websites:
This is further evidence to support what I wrote above. Why do you think that apache wins among web serving companies?
Because it doesn't? That makes no sense. 8 years ago, when Apache had 75% of the server market, you'd have had a point. In 2008, you're just a naive, bumbling freetard talking out of your ass. IIS has been significantly improved over the years, and thanks to IIS7, has not only bridged the gap between it and Apache, it is now in striking range, after having pulled Apache down to 49% of the server market.
Expect IIS to surpass Apache in terms of physical servers within the next two to four years. IIS has already surpassed Apache in terms of its share of hosted domains.
Hope springs eternal for the Linux bums. We watched the bums make a complete mess of an operating system for the last 17 years. They faced "a litany of essentially unsolvable problems", to quote a wise man, and declared that the problems cannot or will not be fixed. This didn't cause them to lose hope, though. Year after year, we heard promises of Year of Linux Desktop, whereas, in all these years, Linux couldn't even break the 1% barrier in desktop usage share.
As far back as year 2000, the pundits were predicting Linux to equal or surpass Windows on the desktop in 2003. In reality, Linux managed to garner a 0.3% usage share on the desktop by 2003, leaving Windows with about 95%.
When Munich chose Linux desktop instead of Windows upgrade, the bums proclaimed this is the beginning of the end for Microsoft. Linux fucked Munich up thoroughly, and MS is still raking in record profits.
The bums made noise when Walmart tried selling those GOS desktops in stores. Walmart's customers felt "[Linux] is not really what they are looking for", and Walmart uncermoniously kicked the ridiculous little machines out of its stores.
When ASUS managed to sell a few netbooks with Linux, the bums again reared their ugly heads. Linux is going to dominate the netbooks, they said. Reality? MS let loose XP, and Linux is fucked yet again.
Eternal fornication seems to be the story of Linux, but we still have bums claiming everything will be all good by June 2009. People that stupid should be allowed to continue their Linux development.
Linux is the best operating system in the world, no amount of Wintard mind games and marketing statistics will change that.
IT is just raining. Seriously, what does MS have. A bloated OS and a deprecated OS. An Office suite under intense pressure from OO and IIS, losing out to LAMP. (you can have the parked domains). From embedded, to UMPC to cell phones (ala Andorid and Apple), MS is nowhere on the new product front. What, if anything, is MS bringing to the table in terms of interesting, or new? If they lose OEM lock, they are in serious trouble.
http://blogs.computerworld.com
/call_it_a_sub_subnotebook_new_pc_is_small_as_a_cell_phone
The $175 Linux-based system has a Webcam built in, as well as a range of applications, including Web browsing, e-mail and IM.
It can connect to the Internet using a standard Wi-Fi connection, or it can use your cell phone's mobile broadband connection via Bluetooth.
A full computer in, literally, the palm of your hand. Point me to innovative things MS is doing. Show me where they have any plans to win any new market?
Web relevance - little
Phone relevane - little
Multimedia relvance - very little
Ultra small devices for $299 or less - none
Search - Lost
Web 2.0 - no relevance
Xbox - ongoing and ongoing losses, so no near term help at all.
Their only strength is market inertia and monopoly control of OEMs. Seriously, show me one new technology where MS is leading the way. Can you? A real non vaporware product or service?
That doesn't bode well for the future of MS. We'll see how much more pressure all their products come under during an economic downturn where suddently, $500/person + yearly CALs look even worse to managers.
That doesn't bode well for the future of MS.
Microsoft has been dying for 20 years now, mate.
Hey, you wanna read something really hilarious also related to predictions?
Predictions for 2002: Linux emerges as desktop OS
Linux will become user-friendly and emerge as a true desktop operating system competing with those of Microsoft and Apple.
http://www.linux.com/articles/20307
Microsoft has been dying for 20 years now, mate.
No it hasn't. Until 2003, it was the be all end all big dog. It is slowly losing on 100 fronts now, relying only on it's inertia and marketing.
How come you didn't list one, just one new product area where MS competes well, let alone leads? Probably because you can't.
Their only hope at stemming Linux at 15% (due to UMPCs selling at 30-40% of all notebooks next year) of the notebook market next year is if Windows 7 works on it, maybe release next summer.
In 2003, you could not find ANY mainstream Linux installations, now all OEMs have them, and UMPCs are Linux or XP. XP is garbage in terms of security, deprecated, doesn't earn MS any real money and is only a halt Linux at all costs plan. Not really much of a plan though, no upgrade path for all those machines.
Seriously, MS is under attack on way to many fronts for it to handle.
No it hasn't. Until 2003, it was the be all end all big dog.
Looks like a random date to me. And I've been reading and hearing similar speeches to yours and people proclaiming the end of Microsoft kingdom long before that date... but they keep turning up record profits. THAT is fact. Keep on dreaming.
A full computer in, literally, the palm of your hand. Point me to innovative things MS is doing. Show me where they have any plans to win any new market?
You have no clue what you're talking about. FOSS and ESPECIALLY Linux retards and GNU cultists are nothing more than me-too monkeys. They have absolutely ZERO innovation potential. ZERO. Let me say it again ZERO. Again. ZERO. All they have done is hack together a third rate clone of UNIX. The only reason its grown is because commercial companies (You may note here that the monkeys coding in their basements are irrelevant, and in most cases useless programmers. They can be used as guinea pigs by the FOSS cult by dumping untested buggy builds on for them to masturbate to) can offer a decent product on the server side because in these 30 years apart from OSX, nobody has been able to provide a decent desktop experience with *nix technology that the average consumer will use. You may note here that servers are not desktops. And UNIX was a good Server product. So Linux is a clone of that. Lets recap.
SERVER = COPY UNIX
DESKTOP = uh uh uh.. FAIL
Microsoft has over 5000 products at this time competing in tons of new markets. No company with 5000 products can make all 5000 of them a success. But its true that a single FOSS cult with 5000 applications can make all of them a huge failure. Ask any desktop linux company. Lets recap.
DESKTOP LINUX with 6GB DVD downloads and 20 different text editors and other crap bloatware buggy shit = FAIL.
As far as Microsoft is concerned lets take a look at its major markets.
1. OS - Platform services , etc
Products: Windows, Visual Studio, SQL Server, Exchange, Business server products.
Verdict : Huge fucking success. No other set of products have seen such success in any company. None.
2. Business Division
Products : Office.
Verdict : Same as above.
3. Entertainment Division
Products : XBOX 360 , Win CE, Hardware.
Verdict : Initial losses (with high market share) , now all are profit making successful divisions.
-
Newer products:
Silverlight - Nothing even close. Any .NET language to code web apps. C#, VB6, etc. All In a few MB runtime download. Millions of users for the NBC Olympics Streaming. (All required Silverlight download)
VC-1 Codec - HDDVD, Blueray, HD content. One of the best codec out there.
AJAX - Yeah, MS basically drove XMLHttpRequest into being a formal standard.
Games - Gears of war, Halo. I dont personally like them, but they're a huge hit.
Hardware : Keyboards & Mice - Even slashdot agrees they make some of the best hardware out there.
UMPC - Yeah, guess who was involved in making this?
This should be enough.. Google Microsoft Research for more information.
If you think a company with $225 billion market cap is 'in trouble' , the best I can do is offer you some medication.
Recent news is that Microsoft as part of their "anti-piracy day" starting disabling computers in China. The Chinese government is reacting by threatening invest billions into Linux and getting rid of Microsoft software.
Microsoft is doing a good job of fucking themselves over.
Their only hope at stemming Linux at 15% (due to UMPCs selling at 30-40% of all notebooks next year) of the notebook market next year is if Windows 7 works on it, maybe release next summer.
Or release an updated version of xp that is designed for netbooks.
Windows Embedded Standard 2009
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/10/windows_embedded_standard_2009_released.html
Every year someone from linuxland declares the end of Microsoft to be near because of reason x and then Microsoft later makes a y% increase in profits. Every goddamn year. It's really getting old.
Microsoft isn't doing anything innovative like that table-top PC and photo collaboration software that takes a ton of pictures of something then reproduces a 3D image?
What is the innovation that FOSS is doing?.
wobbly windows?. rotating cube?. 20 different text editors?.
Will they ever put working audio/video on their list of innovations ever?.
I think they're working on twenty different wobbly videos that rotate.
@.net jerkface
Windows Embedded is designed for specialty ISV applications, not for OEMs to preload on PCs, unfortunately.
Photosynth started as a University of Washington project, not from within Microsoft. MS Surface is technology that has been available commercially for years. Neither is really proof that MS is innovative.
And yes, MS is rarely innovative. MS concentration is on shipping products and not innovation. The most innovative thing they have come up with in the past few years is MS PowerShell. But you could argue that is heavily inspired from Bash and Perl.
But in the end of day, almost nothing in Computer Science is "innovative" anymore, most everything that comes up has been available since the 60s and 70s, just not commercialized.
More good news!!!!
Apricot drops....ahem...'postpones' adoption of Linux
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/10/22/apricot_ditches_linux_netbook/
Linux is winning!!!!. MS will go bankrupt next week!!!!. Yeaaaahhh!!!!!
Windows Embedded is designed for specialty ISV applications, not for OEMs to preload on PCs, unfortunately.
It can be used for x86 based netbooks.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/products/westandard/default.mspx
And yes, MS is rarely innovative. MS concentration is on shipping products and not innovation
If that was true then most programmers would not pay $800 for visual studio. They would use eclipse. The business world would not be using office and opengl would not be playing catch-up with directx. There would not be a demand in the linux world for an active directory clone, a visio clone and exchange support.
But in the end of day, almost nothing in Computer Science is "innovative" anymore, most everything that comes up has been available since the 60s and 70s, just not commercialized.
Oh right, a quad-core dell desktop running vista would be hardly distguinishable from a 1970's mainframe connected to a black and white crt monitor. Not noticable difference in processing power, usability or productivity. How did you get your head so far up your ass? Did you start with Yoga?
Microsoft was a little worse. They used a vendor lockin between there services department and business department.
There have been better replacements to exchange for years. Only one problem no integration into MS Outlook. So the bad bit is cloning exchange is just part of integrating into market due to past lockin.
Lack of Linux developer/Unix development into something equal to a ADS is lack of interest in the desktop.
Here is the funny one is the interest in embedded devices that is really driving the Linux sort out of the desktop environment. Sorry to say that makes sound being fixed long way down the list.
UMPC is a Sharp development not a Microsoft one. MS named it that is about all they had in the development of it. First machine that matches UMPC description is from 5 years before it was named running Linux.
LOL Keyboards & Mice << Please read the under side of your Microsoft mouse or keyboard you will almost always find the words logitech. Reason they licensed MS brand name so they could make Microsoft labelled devices. Logitech has always been a good keyboard and mouse maker.
Yes some points are right but please don't give credit to the wrong things.
Another netbook manufacturer ditches Linux because it doesn't do what people want (i.e. work)...
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/10/22/apricot_ditches_linux_netbook/
@.net jerkface
One Quibble... Open GL is not catching up with DirectX. We have all seen this pattern before. The market has chosen, and the corporate masters behind OpenGL will milk it for all its worth, but it is depreciated, and fading.
@anonymous at October 23, 2008 1:13 AM
Wow, you are so completely mistaken about "better replacements of Exchange" that I simply don't know what to say to that.
Thats sort of like claiming that there are recording studios that using something besides ProTools... Yeah, while technically you would be right, they are generally not your up and coming audio studios...
Or sort of like suggesting that print shops and web design firms could get along without the Adobe suite...
And almost as stupid as claiming that Google Office or OO are a suitable replacement Office.
For a while I thought the term "freetard" was sort of cruel and insensitive, but men, you guys sure go out of your way to earn it.
Lol, then you go on that bit about how Microsoft is really just private labeling mice from Logitech. Bwhahahaha!
Oh also, the first main stream application on any system anywhere to use a mouse, was a Microsoft mouse in a very early version of Microsoft Word. Apple wouldn't release a mouse enabled product for four more years...
So yeah, Microsoft technically didnt invent the mouse, they only hold the title of being the first company to make it usable.
Oh yeah, Microsoft also invented the optical mouse and the scroll wheel;)
So, yeah, you are a freetard, and you have gone out of your way to earn that title.
See this: http://goodliffe.blogspot.com/2008/10/madness-of-glibc.html
The problem with freetards is they dont really *NEED* a reason to hate Microsoft. But IMO what really gets them is their GNU cult views are not accepted by average computer users.
Geeks rejecting OSS can always be (and is ) 'lumped' together with being a MS employee/fanboi/shill/etc.
However when a person with no extensive knowledge of Computing history or internal OS technology rejects Linux (e.g. the UMPC Linux garbage.. ) the cult followers get really paranoid and delusional.
These days though they're especially pissed when the mac numbers go up and the Linux adoption rate is as flat as the vitals of a dead rotting corpse. Its very entertaining to watch.
How come you didn't list one, just one new product area where MS competes well, let alone leads? Probably because you can't.
Um, how about Windows? With 18% of the overall market, Vista has a larger piece of the market share than every other OS other than Windows XP combined.
Although not new, NT4 has actually been gaining market share over the past year, probably due to Nortel using it on their PBXes. It's up to 0.80% of the overall market, as compared to Linux's 0.91%. (Win2k hold 1.8%, still).
IIS has made significant gains on Apache in the server market, climbing to 34% according to Netcraft, having hauled Apache down to 49% (from 75%). Most sane people consider that to be fairly competative. I can't seem to find numbers for actual operating system market share in the server market, so there's no way of knowing how Windows server is doing, but given the IIS vs Apache numbers, and keeping in mind that the Apache share is split between ALL operating systems, as opposed to the IIS share being confined to Windows, it's safe to assume that Windows Server is also making significant inroads into the server room, with at least 34% of the market.
Internet explorer holds a combined 71.5% of the broswer market (46.35% for IE7, which is the clear leader, and 24.67% for IE6) compared to 13.27% for Firefox3 and 5.77% for Firefox2.
Microsoft Office dominates the market of Office Suites.
Windows Media Player appears to be holding a comfortable 100% lead in terms of streaming media, in terms of unique users over iTunes (RealPlayer and Quicktime are third and fourth, respectively).
The Xbox360 appears to be competing fairly well in the console market.
Active Directory and Exchange are largely the undisputed leaders in their respective fields.
Although not a product in and of itself, it's fun to keep in mind that Microsoft started the whole AJAX craze something like 10 years ago. Except we called it DHTML back then, and it only really worked on Internet Explorer.
There are the obvious counter-examples: Oracle utterly dominates the RDBMS market with 61%, and Google holding a practical monopoly on the search and portal markets.
Their only hope at stemming Linux at 15% (due to UMPCs selling at 30-40% of all notebooks next year) of the notebook market next year is if Windows 7 works on it, maybe release next summer.
15%? You're predicting a gain of more than 1000% for Linux over the next year? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Expect Microsoft Singularity to make significant inroads into the embedded and portable markets once it's released. (Singularity is MS' experimental, next-gen microkernel architechture, in case you were unaware).
Honestly, I firmly believe that the whole "netbook" thing is a passing craze. Maybe I just don't see the appeal, I dunno. (PS, I <3 my iBook).
XP is garbage [snip] deprecated, doesn't earn MS any real money and is only a halt Linux at all costs plan.
You're kidding, right? I mean, seriously, you're joking right? XP still sells to OEMs, and makes MS them a fair chunk of cash (MS is, after all, producing record profits). Further, learn to see beyond right in front of you. XP holds about 70% of the OS market. Microsoft sells a lot of software (Visual Studio, Expression Studio, Microsoft Works (ultimate oxymoron, I know), Microsoft Office, Encarta, Money, etc) People do actually buy software, and that software runs on an operating system. 91% of the time, that operating system is Windows, 70% of the time, that OS is Windows XP (in the case of office, 8% of the time, it's OS X), see where I'm going with this?
Operating systems also sell hardware. After all, a computer is useless without one, right? Now hardware manufacturers have to write drivers for the hardware. Those drivers also run on an operating system (I know, the concept of functional, third-party drivers is foreign to the average Linux fanboy, but trust me, it exists). Now, these drivers are usually developed using development tools (shocking!) and are actually tested on the target OS (TESTED? ZOMG, PEOPLE DO THAT BEFORE RELEASING A PRODUCT!? SHOCH! GASP!) This requires the purachase of an OS license and dev tools. Further companies like Microsoft offer driver certification, and this vosts money, too.
See where I'm trying to go with this? XP makes Microsoft more money than 99% of the human population will ever even see in its lifetime.
In 2003, you could not find ANY mainstream Linux installations, now all OEMs have them,
"All OEMs" is stretching it. Thing is, you have to compare the sales, and other factors. Microsoft is still recording record profits, so they really aren't under much threat. Linux holds 0.91% of the overall market share, and has actually dropped from 0.93.
Microsoft's biggest threat is microsoft. You can't really speak of growth rates without keeping in mind that MS is at point where they can't grow any more in many of their own markets, since they're already at the ceiling.
Plus you have to consider volume when dealing with percentages: a 5% gain for Linux versus a 0.5% gain for Windows, results in many more units for Microsoft. It's basic QM.
A full computer in, literally, the palm of your hand. Point me to innovative things MS is doing.
They're a software company, douchebag. Try an apples to apples comparison.
How's about you points out areas where Linux has innovated? I'll help!
Let's start at the very core of Linux. The kernel. It's a copy of Minix, which in turn is a copy of Unix System V. Except Minix tried to be innovative. Linux as kernel is essentially Minix without any of the parts that set Minix apart from the rest. Most notably, Minix is a Microkernel.
Hint: MS Singularity will be the first mainstream Micro/Exo kernel.
Hint 2: Mach and L4, sadly never made to the mainstream. Minix never became mainstream, and GNU HURD won't be released until after Duke Nukem' Forever.
Hint 3: Although OS X's XNU was built ontop of Mach, XNU itself is a hybrid kernel. Windows NT was the first mainstream Hybrid kernel.
The GNU userland is a copy of the Unix userland.
Hint: RMS has never denied this, in fact the GNU acronym itself states as much.
Although Linux has yet to achieve mainstream status, Microsoft was responsible for widespread adoption of Unix (they were the largest and most deployed Unix vendor, with Xenix), in doing so prompted the shift to cheaper, simpler microcomputers, due to regognizing the potention of Intel's 386 processors. Xenix was in fact, the first Unix for 386. Further, with Windows, they introduced the simple, inexpensive, runs-on-cheap-commodity-hardware desktop operating system, and as a result are largely credited with putting a computer in every home.
In fairness, the development practices and kernel archetecture are in some ways innovative.
Traditionally in software development, codebases are split between stable and development branches: Linux, with 2.6.x was possibly the first to diverge from the practise, and do away with the stable branch. As a result, Linux has also done away with the concept of providing stable interfaces, ABIs and APIs. However innovative this may be, it has been proven to be both innefective and completely insane. It's new though, credit given where credit is due.
Likewise, traditionally Operating Systems, have opted to produce single, standardized frameworks, subsystems. and toolkits. Linux also did away with this notion, as is the only system I am aware of that provides dozens out competing, overlapping, and conflicting sound subsystems in varying levels of completion. However stupidly insane this practice may be, it is without a doubt new, and thus innovative.
You're welcome to extend the list.
Show me where they have any plans to win any new market?
Anti-Trust regulations prevent them from entering many new markets, and limits the new markets they can even even enter. They're essentially required, by law, to stay within the markets they're already in.
Funny how that works, isn't it? Freetards love to complain about the Microsoft pseudo-monopoly, almost as much as they love complaining about Microsoft doesn't enter new markets since they're actually complying with the Antitrust rulings.
Traditionally in software development, codebases are split between stable and development branches: Linux, with 2.6.x was possibly the first to diverge from the practice, and do away with the stable branch. As a result, Linux has also done away with the concept of providing stable interfaces, ABIs and APIs. However innovative this may be, it has been proven to be both ineffective and completely insane. It's new though, credit given where credit is due.
Completely true.
The proprietary Nvidia and ATI drivers break nearly every new point release of the kernel due to slight changes to the memory API in the kernel.
The only way proprietary drivers are manageable and legal under Linux is thru a FOSS kernel module that loads the binary driver blob.
This also enables FOSS developers to patch the kernel module so that the proprietary blob will work on newer, unsupported kernels.
Microsoft really doesn't do anything innovative. Vista was poor attempt at copying Mac OS X. Zune was a copy of the iPod, and Xbox was a copy of the Playstation 2. The sad things is these were all poor copies. When Microsoft copy & pastes, they can't even get that right.
Microsoft's stock has been plummeting way before the economic crash, and their revenue from Windows and Office dropped 24% this year. Everyone in Wall Street knows the company is fucking screwed.
..I'm looking at a Vista screen now, and I don't see anything OSX-y about it.
Maybe if the freetards concentrating on building a better product instead of fighting imaginary wars against a supposed corporate oppressor, they;d have something to show for their efforts instead of spite, bile, and petty jealousy for a company that really doesn't need to do much at all to stay on top (other than producing a reasonably solid product that people want to use because other people want to develop commercial apps for it).
http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4980
Hilarious.. !
Microsoft's stock has been plummeting way before the economic crash, and their revenue from Windows and Office dropped 24% this year. Everyone in Wall Street knows the company is fucking screwed.
Microsoft is probably the only giant corporate with a AAA credit rating _after_ the crash.
"Wall Street knows".. LOL. Apparently _you_ dont know shit. MSFT Revenue is up and Profit is up. Windows & Office both brought in billions more than last year.
Yes, they did miss analyst expectations, so did google, apple, and about 100,000 other companies.
Everyone in Wall Street knows the company is fucking screwed.
Same way everybody knows it's the Year of the Linux Desktop. Again!
Here's one to laugh at:
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3780151/Seven+Ways+that+GNU/Linux+Tops+Vista.htm
To summarize his points as to why linux is omg so much better than Vista:
1) Choose a Desktop
(as in dozens of combinations of environments & window managers)
2) Customize your desktop to the last detail
(zomg themes!)
3) Use a full suite of default utilities and software
(as in Windoze doezn't have anything but Paint and Defrag! If it did it would be called "bloat" or be material for Anti-Trust allegations)
4) Download and test software
(I guess there's no such thing as freeware for Windows...)
5) Control popup messages and updates
(Like, disabling balloons in Vista is so much harder than wading through KDE's shit-swamp control center)
6) Use multiple workspaces
(legitimate point, providing you actually USE them, but hardly a deal breaker)
7) Have control of your computer
(obligatory "F Is For FREEDOM" fud-filled penguin dance)
talk about a weak argument if those are the 7 most vital ways in which luserland beats wintardopia.
God I'm sick to fucking death of Linux users (I run Debian Etch BTW) posting fucking compiz videos as if that's the be-all and end-all of foss...if that's the best they can do then they're fuvked. Yes compiz is entertaining but that's all it is...and whoever said it was bloat needs to realise compiz is about a 8MB download and about 16MB installed IIRC
The Xbox had more features than the PS2 and a much better gaming network. In fact, Xbox has the best gaming network out of all the consoles. So, really, a copy of the PS2? I think not.
http://ostatic.com/175717-blog/linux-gaming-console-coming-in-november
ZOMG!!! A Linux gaming console!!!. Every Lintard's dream come true!!!. I think Sony & MS are like totally screwed. Sony & MS are going bankrupt next week...
The Xbox is a piece of shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzIAYszH_X4
I'm certain that an Xbox is a gaming console and not feces. I'm baffled as to how you managed to confuse the two.
Microsoft really doesn't do anything innovative. Vista was poor attempt at copying Mac OS X. Zune was a copy of the iPod, and Xbox was a copy of the Playstation 2. The sad things is these were all poor copies. When Microsoft copy & pastes, they can't even get that right.
The Zune is nothing like the iPod, short of both of them being portable media players. I suppose by that rationale, the iPod is just a copy of the Diamond Rio?
The Xbox also has little in common with the PS2 short of both being _merketed_ as gaming consoles. You'll not the emphasis on "marketed". While the Playstation 2 is indeed a gaming console, and designed as such, the Xbox is actually a low-end PC in the frame of a console. If I recall correctly, the Xbox was the first console to offer onboard HD storage (as opposed to the PS which was using memory cards to store game data).
Vista may have been Microsoft's answer to Apple's Tiger, I really fail top see how they have much of anything in common other than both of them being operating systems.
What is it that Vista copied from OS X?
The UI? Nope. Aero looks nothing like Aqua, sorry. It even acts nothing like the OS X UI. I don't get it. Honestly, Where's the finder-bar, where's the MDI-style desktop? Where's the dock? Ooh, I get it, Windows Flip has a setting to act like Expose... OMG IT AM OS X CLONE LOLOL!
The central frameworks? Nope, it's still DX and .NET, as it has been forever.
The legacy-mode virtualization? Nope, Windows has been doing that the same way they have since it was shifted to 32-bit.
The Unix subsystem? Nope, that's been around since NT4.
How about the whole Linux/FOSS obsession with making cheap knockoffs of everything?
Microsoft's stock has been plummeting way before the economic crash, and their revenue from Windows and Office dropped 24% this year. Everyone in Wall Street knows the company is fucking screwed.
Actually Microsoft's stock has had the appearance of dropping, because they've been splitting the stocks since the 1990s, you know, that's when a company doubles the amount of availible shares, but halves the value of the individual share. Volumewise, they're the largest stock on NASDAQ. Furthermore, they've been recording record profits for the past year or two, so much so, that they're even offering buybacks on their stock.
Screwed? Quite the contrary. Well, actually, no, with the looming global recession, everyone is just about equally screwed.
The only way proprietary drivers are manageable and legal under Linux is thru a FOSS kernel module that loads the binary driver blob.
This also enables FOSS developers to patch the kernel module so that the proprietary blob will work on newer, unsupported kernels.
Except the kernel devs have a tendency to intentially remove hooks used by such wrapper libraries between versions (see the Phillips webcam driver debacle), as a means to attempt to pressure driver devs to release the source for the drivers (even if the author only managed to write the drivers as a result of signing an NDA).
As well, when such tactics fail, devs go ahead and illegally decompile the proprietary drivers, and release the source code. And people who really should know better, like Andrew Morton, defend the practice. (see, again, the Phillips debacle).
1) Choose a Desktop
(as in dozens of combinations of environments & window managers)
Hah. Because alternate desktop shells like Aston, Lightstep, Xoblite, BBlean, GeoShell, SharpEnviro, Emerge Desktop or any of the dozen others available for Windows don't count!
2) Customize your desktop to the last detail (zomg themes!)
WindowBlinds? The built-in theming? TweakUI?
6) Use multiple workspaces
(legitimate point, providing you actually USE them, but hardly a deal breaker)
Not really a legitimate point. It's a WM-level feature. Litestep, SharpE and Emerge all provide virtual desktops. Further, VMs are completely useless on a system (like Windows) where setting up multiple physical screens is as trivial as just plugging in the extra monitors. I have a 4800 x 1200 Triple-headed setup, why do I need VDs? I can see why it would be the case on an x11 system, it's a fucking pain in the ass to setup physical screens.
Ubuntu Intrepid drops joystick support:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=957483
Yes, X farted.
*Yawn*
@October 24, 2008 5:38 AM
The difference is you don't have to modify system files or buy proprietary/bloated 3rd party apps to customize Linux. And what you call a "shell" is actually a replacement for explorer.exe, not a window manager. That's like replacing out gnome-panel or nautilus, not metacity. You can not replace the window manager in Windows, very heavily integrated into the operating system.
And you wintards, believe it or not, I've used Windows for 15+ years. I prefer Linux. It's my choice. Get a fucking life already you babies.
"Ubuntu Intrepid drops joystick support:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=957483
Yes, X farted.
*Yawn*"
You don't need that feature!
Why the fuck should I care about the subsystem that places windows on the screen?
Why are esoteric and bloated open source equivalents better? And what exactly is "bloat"? Does it mean it possess more features than you desire to have? Is that really the problem, having too many features? Why not use the "light" versions instead.
Anyone notice that a lot of Jewish people use Linux? Richard Stallman is Jewish, so is Linus Torvalds believe it or not, so is dozens of "core Linux developers", an unusual proportion of people on Ubuntu Forums.. etc. etc.
Just an observation.
Even people experienced in Linux find it stinks on Acer Aspire One.
"I am not an XP fan, but I have to say, I got my new netbook, which I’m writing this on, up and running and far more functional in 1/10 the time the Linux version took."
So Linux sucks on MSI Wind, and it sucks on Acer. ASUS claims the Linux models are returned no more than the Windows ones, but for whatever reason, it wouldn't sell the Linux models in some countries. Linux appears to be heading for yet another fade out.
"Get a fucking life already you babies."
Got one, thank you. It's just fun to give desktop linux the virtual shitkicking that it has so richly earned after being sold the bill of goods year after year after year that Linux is the next best thing to the second coming of Christ. And it'll have everything you need, next year....
The very concept that was supposed to make Linux great (the whole foss philosophy) is the very thing that dooms it to become an ever bigger and less cohesive ball of wasted effort.
What do you get when you've an infinite number of monkeys typing at an infinite number of terminals?
It's Linux, and it ain't Shakespeare baby!
But, hey, thanks for playing. This place wouldn't be worth a shit if the faithful didn't stop by in droves and condemn us all for not liking kool-aide. It's just too damn funny.
@October 24, 2008 5:43 PM
You're missing the point. The point being that this fan-man is listing points as to why Linux is superior to Vista, and ALL of his points are so trivial and superficial that it begs the question: if these core features are what makes Linux so great, then it is NOT great because these features are trivial and superficial.
The only point that is not somehow related to eye candy or software installation is the final one. And if that is the only point with any real validity, then it's nothing more than the usual "Freedom our way, not their way or your way" argument, which is the same arrogant self-serving bullshit that has been coming out the mouth of RMS as regular as diarrhea out of a dysentery victim.
And is about as valuable to me, the consumer, as that very same stream of hot liquid shit would be.
Linus is not Jewish
RMS is Jewish.
Bill Gates is not Jewish.
Steve Ballmer is Jewish.
Larry Ellison (Sun) is Jewish.
Ronald Hovsepian (Novell) is not Jewish.
Mark Shuttleworth (the FOSS sugar daddy) is not Jewish.
There are non Jews anywhere! Oy Vey!
and whoever said it was bloat needs to realise compiz is about a 8MB download and about 16MB installed IIRC
Compiz is bloat in the sense that it's a waste of cpu cycles when done in software, and a waste of gpu cycles when done on hardware.
How about tapping into the GPU for something useful, like automatically offloading graphics intensive workloads to the GPU, as is planned to be built in to Cocoa, come Snow Leopard?
Or Adobe's application-level CPU acceleration for intense workloads which is built into the CS4 suite?
Compiz provides nothing useful, and is by definition bloat. It doesn't even matter how lite of disk space it is, it provides absolutely no useful functionality. Maybe if it was used to create something like Microsoft's Bob, or Silicon Graphics' FSN, and "revolutionized" the way we interact with a filesystem and applications, it's be somewhat interesting, but 3D cubes, wobbly/bendy windows and transparency? Come on.
@October 25, 2008 7:33 AM
Um what about scale, expo, shelf, widget layer? Compiz has plenty of "useful" plugins. And Compiz takes far less resources then Microsoft's DWM does, which can't even be run on a machine with less then 1 GB of RAM.
And Compiz takes far less resources then Microsoft's DWM does, which can't even be run on a machine with less then 1 GB of RAM.
- Less than 40 MBs is not "many resources"
- Nobody's gonna run Vista on less than 1GB of RAM anyway
- DWM works, Compiz is buggy as hell.
Compiz is not buggy as hell. Linux video drivers are. Get it right choob.
Right. Blame and responsability always lies elsewhere in freetardland.
Um, no, most of the "Compiz bugs" people complain about are video driver bugs. Like the HUGE bug where you can't run OpenGL apps when using Compiz on Intel and ATI cards. They will be fixed in due time, but it is not a Compiz issue at all.
If you have any other issues the Compiz people might not know about it would be great if you could let them know on their bug tracker.
Thanks.
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