Saturday, January 31, 2009

A River of Fail

A lot of you KDEtards seemed to have pissed your pants when Linus recently said that he switched to Gnome.  And then a bunch of other people showed up and tried to say what this says about KDE, or what it means for Gnome, and blah blah blah.

In actuality, this whole situation is just a culmination of one FAIL after another.

First, there was KDE itself. I won’t get into the fact that C++ still makes for a terrible desktop platform from the point of view of anyone who wants to deploy an app. But after a while, even the KDE folks managed to make some people happy, and then they iterated to make a few more happy. There was progress.

Then came KDE 4.0. I’ve already written about how messed up that release was. “Hey everyone! we’re calling it a .0* !”

* it’s not really a .0

Then there was Linus, who for some god forsaken reason uses Fedora. I would already claim FAIL here, but whatever, that’s his choice.

Then there’s KDE 4.0 in Fedora. Apparently, the Fedora folks didn’t get the note about how 4.0 isn’t really 4.0. Oh, but the best part is, there’s a nice little Wiki page that talks about Fedora’s plans to include KDE4 at the time.

What was the supposed “benefit to Fedora”?

KDE 4.0 will be released a few months before Fedora 9, and is already feature-frozen now, therefore we expect this to be a relatively low-risk upgrade (as low-risk as a move to a new major version with significant changes can be). We believe that it is necessary to make this move now to keep in line with Fedora's mission of showcasing leading-edge technology.

Sweet! a low-risk opportunity to showcase leading-edge brokenness. Sign me the fuck up!

Wait, there was a “Test Plan”?

KDE-based Fedora installations will need to be tested very carefully because of the major changes. Anything which doesn't use KDE shouldn't be affected and will thus need no or only minimal retesting.

Uhh, FAIL FAIL FAIL?

So let’s summarize.

  • KDE fails for producing a release that nobody wants, and expects everyone to read the fine print after naming it what everyone else in the world would interpret as stable release intended for the masses.
  • Fedora fails for underestimating what it means to move to KDE4, and prioritizing shininess over workingness.
  • Linus fails for not knowing better. By definition, he’s been around the Linux scene the longest. He should have known.

The best part is, if you read Linus’ actual interview, it’s clear that the man doesn’t give a flying fuck about all this. As usual, it’s all the surrounding clueless freetards with unjustified notions of grandeur that have got their panties in a knot.

BTW, I don’t know whether to write another post about it, but I tried a KDE 4.2 liveCD, and it was another fantastic example of faildom. But hey, at least I could rotate my plasmoids. Using a calculator at 45 degrees is more fun then I ever imagined.

182 flames:

Anonymous said...

and fucking dickhead moron keeps on fucking postng, Talk about a FAIL in common sense

Alvare-ClrnD said...

Yeah because we are following the example of M$ and Winchot "Vista"!

Not only Vista, every Winchot release comes with a lot of fucking shit and they sell it for god fuck!

You are running out of ideas, just like Macrobugs...LOVE IT

Anonymous said...

LOL I was totally expecting a post on this.

Anonymous said...

Vim sucks, Emacs for life!

Anonymous said...

I want to see a post that bashes Mono next. I bet Linux Hater can't do it. I bet Linux Hater thinks Mono is perfect, almost like something he helped write.

Anonymous said...

The "C++ is terrible" gave some information away about the identity of Linux Hater.

The "C++ is terrible" stance isn't exactly a generic anti-free software stance, C++ was originally promoted and used by Microsoft extensively, and still one the their major languages of development.

Also, many people in the free software community are outspoken about their hatred of C++.

To state "C++ is terrible" as a matter of fact is suspicious to say the least.

Two well known free software personalities are known for their sheer hatred of C++:

(1) Linus Torvalds (the actual head of the Linux project)
(2) Miguel de Icasa (the head of the Mono project)

It would be funny if Linux Hater was in fact "Linus Torvalds", but I don't think the so called egotistical git would talk shit about his own creation.

Miguel de Icasa is more plausible. He is the biggest "Microsoft fanboy" of the open source world. He hates C++, he promotes this blog on his own blog, and is often seen as someone who talks against things he thinks is wrong in the community. Could LH actually be Miguel himself?

Anonymous said...

> C++ was originally promoted and used by Microsoft

You probably were not around back then. C++ was promoted by Borland, and MS was far behind them.

Anonymous said...

Wait wait wait, Aqua/OSX and Windows XP - 7 DE's arent built through C++? NO WAY!!!

Anonymous said...

I'm so glad you're back. ^____^

Yonah said...

I also tried the KDE 4.2 Live CD.

-Desktop composition didn't work. I guess it's still hard to get to working 3D support on a Live CD. You often hear "Linux supports more devices than any other OS", seem they leave out the word "poorly".

-Now it looks even MORE like Vista, but that won't stop the lying fanboys from claiming Vista stole it's look from KDE.

-KDE itself was wolfing down 60 megs of memory all by itself, not including plasmoids. More than the combined total of memory used by Vista's explorer and Desktop Window Manager combined.

-Even at 1440x900, everything is BIG. The menu, the task bar, the icons, the tray, the windows. Using KDE4 seems like trying to have sex with a fat woman.... you can do it, but everything is hard to work with.

Anonymous said...

The "C++ is terrible" gave some information away about the identity of Linux Hater.

LOL!

Many developers in this "small" world hate C++, myself included. I don't deny its place or its usefulness, but nice it isn't, that I can tell you.

About the subject at hand... well, I doubt Linux gives two shits anyway. Maybe he just needs a gazillion terminals and a web browser anyway so who cares. He just like to attract attention.

About KDE 4.2. Well, that should be taught as a lesson of how NOT to engineer software. See? Nothing is totally useless.

Anonymous said...

Linux Hater, thanks for starting posting again. Keep up the good work, the open source crowd needs your brutal opinion.

You're damn right about KDE 4.2, it's another failed release, no matter how much is being hyped by the KDE people.

After trying out the LiveCD I immediately noticed the following issues:

- as someone already said, everything seems too big

-the default theme is not attractive at all, too many rounded elements in the GUI controls

-Some dialog boxes like the File properties dialog box or the Open File dialog box have a terrible sizing of the controls

-The whole GUI looks unprofessional, like a toy GUI. I cannot imagine myself working with a GUI like this. Compare the KDE GUI with the one of Vista, Windows XP or even GNOME to see how unprofessional it looks.

The KDE folks will need probably 2 more years just to fix the UI interface design problems.

And one more thing: they praise this release by saying they fixed thousands of bugs. If the previous release had thousands of bugs, what does this say about the overall quality of their work ? How could they release their desktop with thousands of bugs and expect people to use it ? If they knew that has so many problems, why didn't they put a giant notice on the download page saying:

"KDE 4.x is crapware ! It contains millions of bugs, please don't waste your time with it !"

It seems that many Open Source projects tend to favor increased functionality in the detriment of quality, resource usage or backwards compatibility.

Dread Knight said...

KDE 4.2 is the best DE ever.

Can you tell me what's so "phail" about it? The only thing that doesn't work using a GUI is dual monitor support, but that's being taken care of (there's a backend called kephal or something).


Go buy some windoze licenses, because microsoft really needs the moneis.

Anonymous said...

LH: Don't stoop to doing the request topics that have always popped up in your comments. You're chaotic and if people start using you to push their agenda your bile won't be so corrosive...

Anonymous said...

KDE 4.2 is the best DE ever.

If you masturbate to rotating gadgets, sure it is.

Anonymous said...

Oh, yep! Another great opportunity to have a decent and somehow standard WM on Linux get a huge step backwards.

Anonymous said...

If a new version of KDE was released every year we wold have to be deving all the time just to keep up with the toolkit's!

Anonymous said...

Hey now that you're back, how about posting about the Stallman stuff I wrote to you in october?

You, this one:

The guru in his own words: (On the 25th anniversary of GNU)

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.html


This stuff is hilarious.

Vimper said...

Both KDE 4 and Compiz are old news.
Here, few fresher suggestions to aim your flamethrower at:
1. Netbook epic fail despite its huge head-start - the netbook hype is over - Linux lost miserably.
2. luserwatch.com (or may be lintardwatch.com)project. The idea is to have a Linux hall-of-shame type of luser listing where people can submit and vote for prominent lusers (reddit + distrowatch style) and then have luser of the month, biggest luser ever and so on awards.
My initial list would be:
1. Jim Zemlin - totally deluded luser.
2. Aaron J. Seigo - biggest luser screw-up
3. Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols (as of late) - drunken the-year-of-the-linux-desktop luser
4. Carla Schroder - totally screwed up Linuxtoday

The idea is FREE as in open source - any volunteers?

Anonymous said...

"2. luserwatch.com (or may be lintardwatch.com)project."


Love this idea! Some of the insane rantings from these people really do deserve ridicule.

Anonymous said...

"A Windows man, a Linux man and a Mac man walk into a bar."

They all ask for a beer.

The barman pours a pint of Guiness for the Windows man and charges him £3.50. Once he's got the money, he passes the glass around the bar, allowing everyone to sneeze, cough or wash their hands in it before passing it to TWM.

The barman then gives a can of Asda Smart Price 'lager-style alcohol drink' to the Linux man and gets him to open it. He turns round and puts another tick on Mark Shuttleworth's tab.

The barman then reaches over and grabs the Mac man by his turtleneck and pulls him so that he's inches away from his furious face. "Steve says you're only allowed an Innocent Smoothie ! Try to buy a beer from me again and you're barred, sunshine !"


Not my creation, someone else made it up. I'll find the link...

Anonymous said...

^ It was a pretty lame joke.

Anonymous said...

Looks like the Freetards are being crushed under a mountain of hate. Upset this LH won't do your requests? Simply post to the OTHER LH - LHR: http://linux-haters-redux.blogspot.com/ . Definitely has a different feel and that LH seems to be coming from a slightly different direction.

Anonymous said...

Come on, kde 4.2 aint so bad after all, at least not compared to earlier releases. I tried it the other day, and during those few hours I only had one kwin crash, two plasma crashes and two konqueror crashes. Rock solid :P

Anonymous said...

^ Epitome of stability in my book.

Anonymous said...

Linux Hater We Love You!!!!!
keep on posting my man!

peace!

Anonymous said...

Oh man I'm so glad you're back. And yes, write another post about KDE 4.2!

Hate,

Your Biggest Fan

Anonymous said...

Microsoft is dying. Long live Linux.

oiaohm said...

KDE 4.x is a huge step into cross compatibility. Results of such a transmission yep one mother of a mess.

If you are doing feature to feature compare between 4.0, 4.1, 4.2 and 3.5 you will notice at 4.2 most of 3.5 features are back most likely 4.3 or 4.4 before they are all 100 percent back. Seams like KDE 4.x is going to follow the 3.x time line. Feature complete at .3 and .4 and stable at .5

Kde 4.2 is only now starting to look like its artist drawings in the design stage of 4.0. So if that is looking like Vista so be it.

Build Kde 4.2 with portland group complier you will see something most of that 60+ megs of memory usage is being caused by gcc.

There is a foundation problem in the complete Open Source stack. The complier sux's.

oiaohm said...

Besides all tests done with Fedora are crap anyhow. When you have cases that even bash can crash from time to time in a distribution is not trustable to run.

Never judge something stablity on fedora the bugger not stable itself

Nik said...

oiaohm, thats pathetic. So it turned out hundreds of man months of work just to "discover" an architectural problem with X (a huge one, true)?

Oh, that problem was already well-known to both NVIDIA and ATI.

np237 said...

Fedora, Fedora…

You mean the distro that shipped with a session manager that doesn’t manage sessions ?

Faildora. Nuff said.

oiaohm said...

KDE 4.x was designed with the idea that DRI2 would be in place before its release. Video card companies were still fighting over the solution to correct it. That has died down now Nik.

Note compiz was the one that found the mother of all bugs in X11 and exactly where there were. Including one that X11 was only single threaded. KDE 4.x also uses the same interface as well so also effected.

Also be aware the bugs compiz found Nik is the fault that causes X11 switching to console and back again to drop it bundle.

Stablity of Linux and Speed of Linux desktop is going to increase in 2009.

Anonymous said...

Twice I've tried to install Ubuntu on my PC and the only thing I get is a black screen with the "boot0:error" message! WTF?
The hdd wasn't even partitioned /formatted, and was set to primary disc! LOL! It says installation complete/restart then "boot0:error"!
So in my book Ubuntu is a crappy OS! I've tried to run it with the Live CD but it doesn't detect my modem!

BTW: I have 4 HDDs and triple boot XP/Vista64/Windows 7 with no problems, only Linsux give me problems! I guess is true then: "You get what you pay for!"

oiaohm said...

Not exactly part of it is your problem. Most of the time.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=22844 Most common cause of boot:error is mis taging active partition.

Please be aware Windows calls any partition type it cannot identify freespace. Did you see if the partitions existed from Linux.

I can give you instructions to completely screw up a windows installation as well. You are just more trained on Windows installation than Linux so you can dig yourself out of common problems.

PS my machine here does not run windows because its motherboard is incompatible leading to random crashes only way to fix is a firmware flash. Runs Linux just fine. So don't give me the crud that Windows works everywhere it don't.

Anonymous said...

@oiaohm - the hdd was blank! No partition, no nothing! Why doesn't Ubuntu automatically set the partition active? I even created a partition with the tools on the installation CD and formatted in ext3 format! I set it as root but I still get the same error! The hdd is set as primary partition in BIOS and yes! Ubuntu sees that HDD!

PS: I don't dual boot Ubuntu with Windows! Its just Ubuntu on that HDD!

Anonymous said...

Stablity of Linux and Speed of Linux desktop is going to increase in 2009.

Muahahahaha. I Want To Believe(TM)

Anonymous said...

Thanks a lot, KDE4 failed me in many ways, not only that it cuts framerates of OpenGL Programs at least to the half (not even compiz does that) it's also generaly quiet slow. Tried it on a 5 year old machine, Geforce 6200, P4, keep in mind that it was promised to be less ressource hungry than KDE3 - IT LAGGS! Copmiz does not lagg there. Compiz does not cut my framerates half (well this was solved in kde4.2 by disabling the window manager when running fullscreen apps - still a huge FAIL for windowed OpenGL apps).
KDE4 appears to be some sort of Vista, just for Linux

Anonymous said...

Please, Vista doesn't fail as hard as KDE 4.x.

oiaohm said...

I asked clearly did you check from a Linux. Apnno Please answer what I asked then maybe I can tell you exactly how to fix it.

There are different options that Linux can be installed with that will make the partitions appear to Windows that there is nothing there yet the partitions appear when you run a Linux disk in the machine. Linux supports LVM where to dos the partition table of Linux does not exist. Or if you make the stupid mistake of putting the boot partition inside the LVM you cannot boot. I have see people do that when they customize the partitions on install if you make the boot floppy option systems like that still boot.

Also if you choose encrypted it can be well hidden.

It would be a really rare motherboard/drive if the partitions don't truly exist. This would be a kernel level bug report. So yes I will be wanting what brand and model of motherboard as well as brand and make of drive if the partitions don't exist. What I really don't suspect is the case the odds of that being true are extremely long.

All Linuxs also have a no boot loader option. So yes you tick that no active partition flag set because it expects you will be using custom loader yes it is possible to load Linux from the Windows boot loader. It would have been ticked by default.

Final one would be TPM enabled on motherboard stupidly it also gives the same message on boot.

LOL speed comparing compiz to KDE 4.x. Compiz causes a race condition leading to the complete graphical environment going splat. KDE 4.x have a block of code in them that avoid causing the race condition cost speed when composited mode is on for opengl programs. That code is auto removed from used when DRI2 is detected since its no longer needed. Sorry if DRI 2 was released before KDE 4.x as it was time lined you would not be seeing slowdown problem.

KDE 4.x is a huge transition. Vista is the wrong one to compare to. 98 to 2000 is the comparable event reason the complete ABI of KDE 3 is basically incompatible with KDE 4 and there was no way around it to fix some of the Internal bugs of KDE 3. Remember that only smoothed out in XP then MS made it choppy again with Vista. Transitions do appear to take about 2 to 3 years. At least the KDE guys have not panicked and did a MS and stuff up the old version ie the Windows ME event. KDE 3.5 still works OK.

Anonymous said...

Excelent example that there are people living a sad life and hafe to make a blod like this. Please go put gun into mouth and just end your sorry worthless life, Sir.

Anonymous said...

Excelent example that there are people living a sad life and hafe to make a blod like this. Please go put gun into mouth and just end your sorry worthless life, Sir.

Are you self referencing your own comment?

Anonymous said...

This blog sucks.

Anonymous said...

KDE 4.2 is worthy. Linus will be back.

Anonymous said...

Dear Linux Hater,
keep it coming,
pretty please.

Anonymous said...

Every linux fanboy should spend a week at #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net to get a reality check.
Every linux hater fanboy should think about the downsides of 1-company-world-domination. Not just in a sense of freedom but also technological progress.

Anonymous said...

Every linux hater fanboy should think about the downsides of 1-company-world-domination. Not just in a sense of freedom but also technological progress.

Nobody's fucking denying that. What we're saying is that Linux is a shitty alternative. So much, in fact, that for 99% of users is not such thing.

So, yes, it sucks that Microsoft lacks competition but screaming that Linux is ready and to be that competition won't make it magically true.

Anonymous said...

@oiaohm: lol, DRI2, yea, DRI2 will be released with, like GNU/HURD so that Duke Nukem 4ever runns smooth on there?
Come on, looking at the current development cycle of Xorg, we can be glad if DRI2 will be released before 2012..

Anonymous said...

Every problem in today's Linux desktop shall be solved with DRI2 - heck, what kind of magic is DRI2 doing? And let me guess: The Driver has to implement it? So even if DRI2 is finished, we have to wait till AMD and NVIDIA have implemented it, so you can whine again how bad those evil proprietary driver vendors are and create code that will *only* work properly with DRI2.
Hope you add some EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL fanciness to some parts needed by DRI2, so that there is even more fun with reasonable drivers.

Anonymous said...

Well DRI2 will fix all of these problems. What kind of answer to you want? Let me guess:

LOLOL DRI2 SUX!!!

rambo said...

Linux become a tool for mindless wankers

Since I been around in the linux community long enough I know how did "user-friendly" broken applications
changed the whole scene. Today every stoopid nigger from africa is able to use linux without reading a single manual page,
I don't have a problem with this -eventually this is where the software development should lead, making easy to use software- but I do
have a problem with that many of these stupid wankers who can make an icon in gnome or partition a disk with gparted
think they are smart and better than those people who have 10 years of nix sysadmin exp behind them.

It's fucking pathetic and beyond that they having asswipe CCNAs, RHCEs and other fancy papers with a chickenshit knowledge
and these dumbfucks who couldnt patch, compile a kernel or setup a 3000 rule iptables with l7 filter, transparent squid
proxy or fix up a C code start calling windows admins lame when they couldn't add a user in windows from command line...
They are ain't fucking better.

I'm a nix sysadmin, I can't get a fucking job with this shit anymore, I living in a foreign country feeding myself
with alcohol & drugs and coding for windows in C++ and making money and don't care about this whole opensource freetard community.

Thank you for all you worthless shits who made a shitflow from the whole community. And btw IRCTARDS should realize
that its not a linux specific thing that people generally dumb and flaming on irc, hopefully that whole network
gonna die out soon.


And to get back to the original topic both Gnome,KDE,XFCE are broken shit window managers for dumbfucks who probably
never even heard about enlightenment, fluxbox or blackbox and never will because OMAG I gonna have to write those configs maself,
I can't click on the control panel but still Iam the king of #ubuntu!

Anonymous said...

River of fail = this blog

Anonymous said...

I'll take my "fail" gnu/linux desktop. You know what the alternative is, right?

Linux hater: Have fun running only 3 applications at once with windows 7 (http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/windows-7-skus-announced-yes-your-worst-nightmare-has-come-to/2)

Seriously, let's talk fail....

oiaohm said...

DRI 2 is still on time table for complete release in 2009. That is already a year late it was ment to be middle of 2008.

DRI 2 does not fix all problems in the Linux desktop. It fixes particular ones.

DRI 2 alterations take over card memory management in kernel. 3d and lots of 2d instructions are using space.

Sorry the issue here is the only vendor without partly operational DRI2 drivers is Nvidia.

So no its not going to take to 2012 for it to get out door. Intels DRI2 driver is already fully out the door yes its released before there is a X11 released to use it. VIA and AMD not far behind. AMD and VIA prototype drivers already have DRI2 support. Major reason it was ment to be out by now is the work is basically done its just the pieces dropping into place for active use.

DRI2 specs were finished about 4 months ago. It all about getting the final parts release in X11 and Kernel to complete it. And the specs finishing 4 month ago was over a year late.

So yes everything is already way behind time table.

Kernel Mode Switching that might need until 2010 to be everywhere. Ie the system that allows you to keep a Linux system going even after a X11 crash.

Yes DRI 2 is the step to rebootless system. Kernel Mode Switching removing X11 means to stuff up the video card the next step. So a X11 crash will be no worse than a major blue screen on Vista. System keeps on going and is user recoverable.

Particular things are cured by DRI2 particular things need other parts.

DRI2 fixs up a lot of performance issues as well. DRI1 is single threaded in places that kind hurts performance badly.

Video card most of them will be switching to DRI2 as soon as they can since it improves there drivers stability.

Compiz and KDE 4 rendering faults both link straight to the fixes DRI 2 does.

Now ask the right questions about flaws you will get the right answers. Don't be a stupid idiot because I answer X is a fix to 1 particular set of flaws there are not other answers as well in the pipe line to other problems.

Nik said...

@Anonymous:
Linux hater: Have fun running only 3 applications at once with windows 7 (http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/windows-7-skus-announced-yes-your-worst-nightmare-has-come-to/2)

That limitation was also in Vista Starter Edition. And you didn't even notice it. No one ever made a fuss about it, except for a bunch of short-sighted dim-wits, who decide to do it... now.

You, pal, are an idiot.

Kyle said...

Nik - the only concerning thing about that development is that they'll be selling Starter Edition to the general public rather than to just OEMs in foreign countries.

Kyle said...

Crap, NM - looks like some of the initial info was wrong. Still, OEMs worldwide is a little ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

I think they are targeting Windows 7 Starter to netbooks. That is just a big fucking waterfall of fail waiting to happen. Netbook OEMs don't pay a dime for Windows XP and probably won't for Windows 7 Starter as well. Of course this will bite Microsoft in the ass if Netbooks actually become popular (which they will).

Anonymous said...

DRI 2 is still on time table for complete release in 2009. That is already a year late it was ment to be middle of 2008.

Don't you ever get tired of never being able to talk about sweet, stable, robust, useful and desireable linux desktop software?

It's the same crap over and over and over with you lintards. What is anyone to say to you when DRI2 comes out and doesn't make an impact and then you are talking about how something else will fix everything?

Anonymous said...

DRI2 is the path forward. It will fix a lot of the issues people are having with Compiz and certain apps.

Anonymous said...

DRI2 is definitely the path forward. But we also have work going on with kernel mode setting and GEM, not to mention Gallium3D. All this already has tens of thousands of lines of code committed but there is a long way to go. But when it is finished Linux will have the most modern graphics model of any operating system.

linsux said...

Linux suck knows no bounds, it just keeps sucking.

Compiz = lol

KDE4, please, what a freakin mess, that thing is an absolute joke.

Linux will never amount to anything, except in the minds of it's deluded, rabid followers. You all bring the hate on yourselves.

Either prove to any other person in the world outside your deluded, rabid, zealotry filled fanatical little world, that Linux is superior, or even remotely as good as you all say, or shut the fuck up, and crawl back under the rocks you came from.

So when is the 'Year of Linux', must be this year, 'cause it's been every year for a while now, and were all still waiting, guess well be still waiting this time next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, and . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I hope this blog keeps going, the freetards and lusers need a reality check.

Anonymous said...

Netbooks are a fad. Eventually people will figure out that you can't do shit with them.

I mean, other than surf the internet what the hell would you do with a netbook?

oiaohm said...

Come on annoymous Coward who keeps on saying that I am saying that DRI 2 fixes everything. It don't.

DRI 2 fixes a particular set of problems that cause most of the instability of the Linux Desktop.

There are still other fixes need. Kernel mode switching makes the desktop almost unable to be rendered completely useless. Kernel mode switching need DRI 2 before it could be created.

Then there is application hibernation and migration from the containers tree that will in time allow you to hibernate applications on a locked up X11 server and transfer them to another working X11 server. This requires DRI 2 and Kernel Mode Switching to work. This also ends the distribution issue once containers are to that point. Reason you will be able to run as many distributions as you like on 1 kernel.

Lot of the problems are a interlinked tree that have to be fixed in order.

LSB and standards is another part of the process. Even LSB has to work following particular pattern.

Basically Linux desktop is just going to get more and more indestructible and massively compatible.

Currently if you are willing to take a 5 percent performance hit you can run in automatic memory checking mode that makes bad ram unable to crash the system. So future safe modes of Linux can already be stronger than Windows.

KDE 4.x will basically be fixed by time.

Anyone who used KDE 3.0 know that first hand. It suxed too.

List problems lets see if you can find one that is not being worked on. This is when you should wake up that you have a problem. Developers are serous about fixing the issues that effect the desktop.

Landon said...

After 4 years of various Linux distros I moved to Vista when I purchased a new laptop 8 months ago. I only switched after I found that the 2.6.27 kernel does not boot correctly on a shit load of HP laptops. The bug has carried over to the 2.6.28 kernel and the bug remains open on the kernel bug tracker. Horrible regression that the kernel developers can't be bothered fixing.

Vista works great. Can not wait until Windows 7.

oiaohm said...

First thing go to the hp site and check for firmware update. Landon. There was a pack of HP laptops with defective firmware. Linux does not run Vista and XP suffers from intermittent data loss on them. Ok with Windows normal temp-mental problems the defective firmware goes unnoticed until after its fixed. If you have it Windows 7 could be highly unstable.

Also there is a work around to the maxcpus=1 boot option to start the machine then set that /proc/acpi/video/*/DOS set to 1 always. After that is set you can remove the maxcpus=1. If its this fault it predates 2.6.25 Linux Kernel. There is a huge pack of HP laptops with defective firmware.

That is the only open HP fault I know about. Yes it has not been fixed kernel side because there are other issues. bug number 12328 .

Now its not always the Linux Kernel at fault.

Landon said...

oiaohm, earlier kernels worked. That's called a regression. Stop blaming the hardware manufacturers.

oiaohm said...

Regression caused by what Landon.

I said first thing you need to do is go to the HP site and check for a firmware upgrade. Please do. I know for a fact for the age machine you said you had that you could have one from a bad batches. So check. If its not we can then look else where.

This is the stupidity of hardware caused bugs. Just because a old version of the Linux kernel worked does not mean that when the new version fails that there is not a hidden bug. There is normally a switch to return the new kernel to the old way of function.

/proc/acpi/video/*/DOS Alters video processing back to how some old versions of the Linux Kernel did it by the way. Also if you build the 2.6.28 kernel yourself you can build it set that way. Next question why are distributions not providing fail safe kernels.

Issue is if the operations are thread safe in bios splat does not happen. Reason why Maxcpu=1 also works against the 12328 bug.

Yep Linux tripping firmware error with bug number 12328. Issue is now if Linux fixs it kernel level it will stuff the performance of people who have been able to correct it at firmware level.

If your problem is bug number 12328. Now if its not bug number 12328 please provide bug number. Since its the only currently open HP bug if your bug has been closed fix will appear in 2.6.29. Also means we can find a kernel patch for the issue.

Having to set this tweak to get around bug number 12328 is no different to having to slipstream sata drivers into windows install disks so you can reinstall the machine.

Landon being extremely vage does suggest you are trying to pull a trick. Never provided what the machine you have is. Never provided a submitted bug report number. Just it don't work. If you have not bothered making a bug report you have no right to expect it fixed.

Also by the way something is really wrong 12328 bug happens on 5 years old kernel versions no one has found a kernel version in the 2.6 line it don't happen on with defective firmware.

So only way it could work is if kernel was built to be fail safe ie work around built in.

Besides if a old Linux kernel works as you so claim a old kernel could still be used with newer distributions. Userspace api of the Linux kernel is backwards and forwards compatible for quite a few versions.

Its really put up of shut up landon if there is a problem complete details in a bug report with link here.

Landon said...

oiaohm, there a numerous distribution bugs filed against this problem as there is also a linux kernel bug filed against it which is marked 'high' and 'active'.

oiaohm said...

Landon Linux kernel bug number quote it.

Stop being vage. Even from a distribution bug number if its been reported up stream to kernel the kernel bug number would be contained. bug number and location is key to dealing with problems.

Lot of cases I find stuff in my support notes here I need to upload onto bugs.

You have not confirmed if we are looking at the same bug.

blackbelt_jones said...

The "C++ is terrible" gave some information away about the identity of Linux Hater.

I think he's really Richard Stallman, posting while in an absinthe-induced blackout.

Linus Toravalds didn't have to switch to Gnome. KDE 3.5 is still supported and will be as long as it has users, but that's how badly the PR was handled. Linus Freaking Torvalds didn't understand how KDE development was supposed to work. Not good. Better to have professional wrestlers handling your public relations than FOSS developers. I agree with everything Linus said about KDE 4.0, and the messed-up rollout, but I've also tried KDE 4.2, which I found buggy but breathtaking, and I think it's all going to be worth the aggravation in the end.

But if you don't want to want to contribute with bug reports (a noble an worthwhile pursuit for the adventurous and community minded) I'd stay the hell away from KDE4 for a 6 month release cycle or two. and in the name of all that's holy, avoid Kubuntu, which has turned into the cult of KDE4. It's the only distro I know that has already burned all the bridges back to KDE3, and every version I install is buggier than the last. (But it's probably going to be awesome when the dust clears.)

I just get too pissed off when things don't work to fuck with KDE4 until it's ready, but some people claim not have bug problems with KDE 4.2... so, as always, your results may vary.

blackbelt_jones said...

But hey, at least I could rotate my plasmoids. Using a calculator at 45 degrees is more fun then I ever imagined.

This isn't the first time Herr Hater has registered mild outrage at the concept of rotating widgets. It always reminds me of the only line I still remember from the movie Time Bandits, when Satan is complaining about the irrationality of God's creation: "Nipples... for men?

I like the rotating widgets on kde4. Someday, somebody may well create a widget where being able to turn it at an angle has a nice practical value, and I think it's nice that they made a place for that widget.

When I'm using KDE 4, I like being able to stick the digital clock in the corner and turn it to a 45 degree angle. It really does make the desktop a lot more attractive. If I've got maybe six to nine widgets on the desktop, and they're all rectangles and squares, and they're all standing perfectly parallel-perpendicular to each other, being able to turn that one corner widget to an angle just makes the whole thing look less monotnous and more pleasant to look at. It that so wrong?

I also like having nipples. Don't get me started!

Landon said...

Sorry, oiaohm, I got busy and did not have time to check back here. Following is the kernel bug.

http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11973

Anonymous said...

Regarding KDE 4.2 memory use,

I'm using it here (compositing + radeon card), it takes < 350 MB of RAM to start with a number of background services, and most things are quite fast. KDE 4.2 is a success IMHO.

Anonymous said...

Here is a screenshot of KDE 4.1, using the rotating widget effect with a transparent version of the digital clock widget.

I'm not trying to impress anyone with the beauty of the KDE desktop... because, let's face it, this is a tough room. But I hope to demonstrate that the effect has aesthetic applications; it's not just idle foolishness.

Anonymous said...

I don't hate C++ IMO I think it's a nice programing language for game development. While lua and python are great scripting languages.

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