Thursday, February 5, 2009

Dear Abbie

If you hang out in the freetard swamp like I sometimes do, you might have heard the name Abbie Schubert. She’s an unfortunate student who drew the wrath of thousands of freetards when she blamed Ubuntu for causing her to drop out of school.

Let’s take a step back and examine this situation.

First off, Dell, YOU HAVE A FREETARD IN YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE DEPARTMENT. You just might want to do something about that. I suggest implementing an improved resume review process to make sure you weed them out.

Secondly, a general rule of selling computers: DON’T PUSH LINUX UNLESS YOUR CUSTOMER EXPLICITLY ASKS FOR IT.

And for good measure, ask: “Are you sure?”

Actually, try insulting their intelligence: “Are you fucking sure?”. If they still say yes, then, and only then, maybe you can sell it to them. I’d suggest a full background check. It’s in the interest of your company. You don’t want another incidient like this on your hands.

Thirdly, this episode once again shows how freetards are just out of touch with the demands of the general public.

Most people simply don’t know what Linux is. They don’t even know what an operating system is. If they’re slightly aware, they know there are two kinds of computers: PCs and Macs. They don’t know that they are essentially the same hardware with different software on top. They don’t fucking care. They use a CD provided by their ISP to get online. They use “Word” becuase that’s what everyone else uses. Word is Word. They don’t fucking care if there’s a sometimes-compatible-but-most-of-the-time-looks-like-ass equivalent in OpenOffice. They don’t give a shit about ODF or OOXML or how MS dicks people over a lot. They don’t want to care. They want to take their class and learn what they want to.

I feel sorry for you guys, really. All those little bits of frustration and anger that get built up everytime someone sends you a word document, or god forbid, a powerpoint with animations and video. It all gets piled up and unleashed on a poor unsuspecting soul, who, if anything, quite accurately represents the kinds of users that you can only dream about having.

Why don’t you guys just go back to your Slashdot circle-jerk and leave normal people alone. Your presence is not appreciated here in the real world.

367 flames:

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Anonymous said...

Man, I just love your blog. It's so entertaining and yet full of truth.

Anonymous said...

Ha ha, this is especially funny because it's the result of a Freetard inside Dell and a Retard who orders a Laptop working together.

The Freetard sells Lunix to someone who didn't ask for it, and Retard is not able to get online and use OpenCoffin due to probably having the IQ of a potato. Or a blonde.

Anonymous said...

awesome!

oiaohm said...

Really should not say failed because of Ubuntu. I have a major problem with that. I did a Uni course being the only student using OpenOffice. Reason for using OpenOffice simple my Office 97 at the time would not produce document that opened in Office 2003 very well.

Sorry Ubuntu did not fail her. Uni did. Besides I ended up submitting PDF documents instead of word docs for most of my classes so I did not have compatibility problems.

You know the funny part it was the UNI who told me to install OpenOffice on windows and submit as PDF when I reported problem to them.

Here problem was not contacting collage with a problem. Yes she did not read her enrollment paper work part of that includes software issues.

She could have failed so many ways just on windows so no Ubuntu did not make it any worse just added a extra twist.

Besides buy a Laptop with Vista or XP from Dell and try to change it to another OS even another MS OS. Sorry you do no more support. Dell customer support suxs all round they will defend what ever OS is installed they are trained to do that.

Yep no freetards in Dell Service Department. Dell Policy. This time you have failed to do your home work on who you are talking about Linux Hater. Please don't let mistakes like this in.

Anonymous said...

Linux + normal people = epic failure.

Anonymous said...

Anyway. Did she not have a friend who could just installed a pirated copy of Windows on that damned thing? Seems quite hard to believe.

Anonymous said...

Most people simply don’t know what Linux is. They don’t even know what an operating system is.

The problem related to the fosstards is that they think everyone is a geek or at least should be one.

Also, they think everyone should be concerned of open source software because closed source software are from the evil no mater it does very much well the job.

oiaohm said...

I forget to say the best one. If you have the money to waste order a Freedos machine from dell then ring up to change to another OS.

That is when you find out that what the dell support person did was policy. There is basically nothing to defend Freedos with yet they have to try.

Normal People with no background experience with any other OS. Normally not a major issue.

Its when you get the Normal People with Windows experience that the trouble comes in most cases.

Be aware over half the poplutation is complier illiterate to the point of not knowing how to turn them on.

Ged said...

Love it!

Anonymous said...

Blonde airhead = Microsoft plant (probably)

LINUX FOR THE WIN!! :D

Anonymous said...

Actually the "freetard" wasn't the one who sold her the laptop, it was the person trying to stop her from returning it. Dell, HP, Best Buy etc have entire departments of people who's primary job is to dissuade people from returning items. Returns are hell for the retailer.

Anonymous said...

Well, as far as I've seen, the Dell computers that come with Ubuntu are buried on their site, and they have a nice bullet point indicating that they come with Ubuntu installed. Now perhaps the issue is that people assume that Ubuntu is a program that runs on Windows, but if they don't do their homework, then that's not really Ubuntu's fault - it's Dell's (for not providing at least a link to the Ubuntu homepage or making it very apparent that the computer does not come with Windows) or the customer's (even though the customer is supposedly always right).

Second, she called up Dell tech support, which managed to convince her to keep the computer instead of shipping it back. If she was having that much trouble with it and didn't want to deal with it, she should have simply shipped it back. The Dell support freetard should have called up the ISP and asked them for the correct settings, then walked her through the setup. Instead of actually caring about their customer's satisfaction, Dell decided to cheap out and send the user out without support that they paid for. While the CD would have presumably worked on Windows, Dell should support their users that have paid for support.

Third, if she didn't want to (or couldn't) fix it herself, she should have called up any of the nerds around her and had them come over to fix it for her in exchange for dinner or something. It seems that she wanted to bitch about things more than she wanted to solve her problem. I understand that this is how a lot of end users are, and quite honestly, it shouldn't be that hard to setup a connection with Linux (a Linux failure), but the end user is not completely innocent in this problem.

Third, her ISP should have supported her. It should not be up the ISP to dictate which OS the user should use, but that's not to say the the ISP should support the 1.5 billion minutely different Linux distributions. Ubuntu is probably the most ubiquitous (what's the name of the installer again?) Linux distribution out there, and chances are the ISP has a freetard in the support department that would be knowledgeable enough to support the user.

Dell and the ISP did not provide an adequate level of service for her. She did not research the problem hard enough before doing anything drastic (the college has stated that they will accept the assignments she missed because she couldn't submit them) like dropping out of school. She could have called her teachers, explained the situation, and asked for an extension to the deadline (which would have probably been granted). However, she didn't want to take an adult, proactive stance towards her problem and instead chose to not solve her problem. Ubuntu (and Linux interfaces in general) failed because they were not simple enough to understand by the average user. It simply shouldn't be that hard or confusing (note that I don't know how to solve this problem, I am just acknowledging and identifying it).

There was plenty of blame to go around and to hold anybody in the situation is simply foolish.

Linux Haters Redux said...

Man, LH! I was just about to cover that! You're stealing my thunder!
JK

Anonymous said...

"JK" !!!!!

Linus Torvalds said...

Another jackass post from LH! Why don't u crawl off and die in M$'s arms? W/ Steve buttfucking yr corpse?

Anonymous said...

Some more info on this:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21745023-Ubuntu-cant-access-internet

Also, funny how "lusers" say that's what package managers are for, but what they don't say is that if the latest greatest software doesn't exist in backports, you are SOL.

new openoffice or pidgin? Not in backports? Compile your own and risk breaking something.

BTW, yes APT it's easy to update all your apps in LOOnix, using synaptic, but hey, of all the apps, there are maybe less than 5 actually useable.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous
February 5, 2009 3:57 PM

Do you have any idea how maniacal you and your FLOSS brethren sound? Yes, EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T LIKE OR USE LINUX WORKS FOR MICROSOFT.

You figured it out, they pay everyone who has tried Linux and *gasp* does not want to use it.

Alvarez said...

[sarcasm]
JAJAJA I REALLY LOVE YOUR BLOG
[/sarcasm]
Now really, I love the windows (l)users that post/show their stupidity in new ways every time I come...

That guy just said that only 5 programs for Linux really wordked, JAJAJA. But maybe he forgot that in windows only Photoshop and Half Life 2 work, and only if you own an IBM-SuperMegaServer cause of the Vista's need for RAM and CPU...

Currently I have 24951 packages installed on my computer, "apt-cache status" said so, and it works just perfect :)

Maybe if you Windows (l)users just tried Linux instead of just talk and playing CS 1.6, because I were a windows (l)user a couple years ago, and I know what I'm talking about...

oiaohm said...

O well big thing here Windows users are trained to blame everyone bar themselves for there problems.

Anonymous said...

College students love Linux because their CSCI instructor won't shut up if you use anything else.

Anonymous said...

Linux doesn't "just work"
BUT NEITHER DOES WINDOWS

Geek Squad wouldn't be raking in BILLIONS if Windows "just worked".

So really, people are dumb. Operating systems are not going to fix this problem.

Anonymous said...

Linux is crap. It belongs in the dumps along with the freetards.

Stefano F. said...

> DON’T PUSH LINUX UNLESS
> YOUR CUSTOMER EXPLICITLY ASKS FOR IT.

They do. It's actually hidden on their website. Except for netbook. But if you buy a netbook you then deserve even worse.

> And for good measure, ask: “Are you
> sure?”

They do. They have wrote an introduction on their ubuntu page:

"Not sure Open Source is for You?

The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don’t get a Windows® operating system. If you’re here by mistake and you are looking for a Dell PC with Windows, please use the following link."

> Actually, try insulting their
> intelligence: “Are you fucking
> sure?”.

They do. They have a banner "DELL recommends Windows Vista" on their Ubuntu pages.
Recommending Vista is quite insulting to anyone intelligence.

No, wait, they removed it (but it lasted months).

> If they still say yes, then, and only
> then, maybe you can sell it to them.
> I’d suggest a full background check.

Post that on www.ideastorm.com

Anonymous said...

I usually find this blog to contain offensive but constructive criticism and I really enjoy that combination. But, I think in this case it may be exaggerated. The last time I checked, Dell doesn't offer an Ubuntu radio button to push when deciding which OS you want. You almost have to type "Dell Ubuntu" into google to find one of these machines. So, this famous article is either bullshit or FUD spread by Microsoft.

Anonymous said...

> Recommending Vista is quite insulting to anyone intelligence.

Wow. Still drinking that Stallmanian crap?

Anonymous said...

This blog is pure fucking FUD in every sense of the word.

Anonymous said...

Currently I have 24951 packages installed on my computer, "apt-cache status" said so, and it works just perfect :)

Sure, but if you remove the 24950 text editors, what do you have left?

Don't worry, you're new to Linux and you have drunk all the kool-aid until the last drop. It you're lucky and you keep your head on your shoulders, it will go away.

Anonymous said...

Well, if she didn't even think about googling, what makes you think a windows machine would be any different.

She practically opened her laptop open and tore a hole in the screen pushing her finger on the buttons.

Anonymous said...

computers + normal people = epic failure
However, I like your blog but you can do it better then this. Quality not quantity.

Anonymous said...

Epic failure on everyone's part. The student's, Dell's, Linux developer's, all of them have failed. But you know who fails the most? Linux defenders.

Tom de said...

Do you explain:
"We hate linux, and you should too"?

Because a Windows hater can tell you why Windows sucks.

Anonymous said...

how many times were you raped during your childhood in psychiatric hospital?

Stefano F. said...

> > Recommending Vista is quite insulting
> > to anyone intelligence.
>
> Wow. Still drinking that Stallmanian crap?

Want Windows ? XP for the win.

BTW I agree with:

> computers + normal people = epic
> failure

Only (free/unfree) tards may think that dropping outta school is a Linux fault. She would just have gotten a stupid virus with windows and then complained that windows slowness cause her to drop out of school.

> Quality not quantity.

Also true. This post was just crapware. Hope LH writing inspiration can strike back someday.

Anonymous said...

Want Windows ? XP for the win.

You're wrong. If you really want to look like an expert, what you must say is: "Current Windows - 1 for the win"

There you go. Now you are a wise computer user.

Stefano F. said...

Right. When Windows 2000 came out people complained and kept loving Windows Me, uh ?

Anonymous said...

"Only (free/unfree) tards may think that dropping outta school is a Linux fault. She would just have gotten a stupid virus with windows and then complained that windows slowness cause her to drop out of school."

And that's exactly one thing freetards don't seem to understand.

normal people DONT FUCKING CARE if it's slow IF THE DAMN THING WORKS.

- typical luser : "yes but you need 12 terabytes of ram" ...

- normal person who doesnt give a shit : "can you install word ?"

Anonymous said...

We where looking into this with a friend and we concluded that there is not enough information to understand what happened there but seems Dell's fault because:
1- On Dell's webpage is not clear that "Ubuntu" is an OS and not some kind of Windows's app.
2- Does not matter if Ubuntu is or not better than Windows. You can't push it to an user does don't even known what you're talking about but needs Windows.

Anonymous said...

ubuntu.com

FTW!

Stefano F. said...

> normal people DONT FUCKING CARE if it's
> slow IF THE DAMN THING WORKS.

That was to say she would have dropped out of college anyway, for an excuse or another.

That's not to defend Linux or whatever. I just mean you have to be tard to believe such a stupid story.

Oh, I like your caps. Let me try:

Normal parents just DONT FUCKING CARE what's your excuse for dropping out of college, and JUST KICK YOUR ASS.

wow.

tomas said...

Now this story was REALLY funny. Who could ever have thought that there were so many freetards :DDD

Anonymous said...

Right. When Windows 2000 came out people complained and kept loving Windows Me, uh ?

Nobody used W2K, it was not a consumer system. Do your damned research.

And yeah, people spew crap about Windows XP too when it was released. Just STFW if you don't believe it. OMG it includes Product Activation!!!! The world is switching to fucking Linux!!!

Right.

Anonymous said...

Nobody used W2K, it was not a consumer system. Do your damned research.

And yeah, people spew crap about Windows XP too when it was released.


Wow, you didn't use computers 10 years ago, now did you? To learn what we old people used back then, try reading the windows 2000 wikipedia entry, especially the section about professional edition.

And yes, many did keep using w2k pro for a quite a long time because of the xp activation scheme.

The world is switching to fucking Linux!!!

Yeah, and swiftly switching back to Mac or Windows.

Andrea said...

The biggest bug in an OS is always between the keyboard and the chair, no matter what the system is. PERIOD!

Anonymous said...

Wow, you didn't use computers 10 years ago, now did you? To learn what we old people used back then, try reading the windows 2000 wikipedia entry, especially the section about professional edition.

I did. That's why I don't need a wiki entry to know that the consumer user was stuck with Windows 9x.

Thanks for playing.

blackbelt_jones said...

This is Verizon's fault. I've dealt with these tools. Linux runs perfectly well on verizon's DSL, but you can't get the account started. I had to install a pirated copy of XP just to get my DSL running, and then I wiped the XP installed Linux, and everything was groovy. Verizon could have easily resolved this for me. All they have to do is give Linux users a username and a password, and they refuse. And yes, coincdentally, they are a Microsoft partner.

Anonymous said...

That's your first post that I can't really agree with. C'mon, it's so obvious that the chick was just looking for a cheap excuse for missing class. Not that I think she could handle an Ubuntu system, but that's really not the point here.

Anonymous said...

LINUX KILLED MY MOTHER AND RAPED MY FATHER

- LINUX HATER

Anonymous said...

Congratulations on the blog, it's a pretty good and fun read.

I stumbled upon it while googling "fuck linux" after a long, frustrating morning trying to make something as simple as a music player radio stream work in GNOME without success. Linux for mainstream users my ass.

By the way, you're not related to Your Webcomic Is Bad and You Should Feel Bad, are you?

Anonymous said...

Hey these kind of people have a fuckton of problems with Windows as well. I was paid good money once to tutor someone on how to read and write e-mail. Took like five weeks of lessons. This was on Windows!

blackbelt_jones said...

I love using Linux. I had the same problem with streaming radio once, but I did get past it, and I'm glad I did. Linux has since saved me a shitload of time and a shitload of money, and it's been a lot of fun, but, yeah, it was a struggle. It may be easy for some but it was not for me. It may not be rewarding for some but it was for me.

I'd give one word of advice, if you don't want to learn how to use the command line, I'm not sure you should bother. These days you can probably get by using the GUI exclusively in Linux-- but what's the point? You can run Linux as if it was windows, and what's the best you can hope for? Windows, with less games and inferior hardware support. The command line saves me time by cutting through the most boring repetetive tasks and allowing me to streamling and or automate them. The command line isn't necessary, but it's what compensates you for all the inconveniences. Some people don't believe that, and these people should just stay the hell away, please. Ordinary users can migrate to Linux if they want to learn it, and not if they don't. If the idea of having to learn something makes you somehow indignant, then stay the hell away please.

Do you think that we read your rants about lusers and freetards and wish that you were a part of out community? No, you're doing fine, right where you are. Keep up the bad work.

Linsux said...

'The biggest bug in an OS is always between the keyboard and the chair, no matter what the system is. PERIOD!'

On a similar note, all versions have the same bug, not the only bug by the way, it has plenty more of them. But the one bug all distro's have in common, is that there is an absolute fucking retarded moron between the chair and the keyboard, I mean you have to be to even use Linux, you must be mentally deficient not to realize how crappy your OS is, and how crappy those little generic looking, functionality deprived, feature poor, buggy, poor excuses for apps you use are, I mean c'mon, wake up, smell the shit you Linux fags are shoveling.

There is a reason why REAL Hardware and Software developers don't support Linux, hell, there aren't even many end users that support it, <1%, lol, yep, Linux is really powering on, the year of Linux is surely coming.

Anonymous said...

Do you think that we read your rants about lusers and freetards and wish that you were a part of out community?

Then the freetard community should shut the fuck up and stop claiming superiority. Just admit that Linux is an OS for geeks and command line lovers and be done with it. And even then, there's cygwin and powershell.

blackbelt_jones said...

I admit no such thing. It's for people who want to learn how to use it. I wasn't a geek. Everybody in my family, including both 70 year old parents, had an online computer before I did. But I learned it, because I wanted to learn it. People who think that a willingness to learn things makes you somehow abnormal are ignorant assholes. Not that that's a bad thing. Keep it up. The Linux users of the world are not interested in answering your stupid questions.

People who claim supriority because they know how to use an operating system are pretty annoying, but all I see in here are people claiming superiority because they don't know how to use an operating system. For the record, I don't feel superior to Windows users, but I sure do feel superior to you.

There's nothing inherently wrong with Windows. I don't use Windows, so I don't have to complain about it any more. I think Microsoft has made the world a better place, and they deserve to make a buck. But they don'tdeserve to live in a world without competition. Microsoft Haters are not better people than Linux Haters. They're also obnoxious jerks. They just have a better operating system.

Until Linux gets a bigger market share, it's going to be harder to adopt. It's really got very little to do with the technology. It's about things like preinstallation, service, hardware, and more than anything else... knowing other users. It's not for everyone, but it is for anyone.

Anonymous said...

But they don't deserve to live in a world without competition

Sure. But Linux is not such competition. It has never been, even if 17 years have already passed since Linux's creation. Why freetards keep beating that dead horse I'll never know.

You can't blame users for that either. They don't want to learn the intricacies of their system, they just want it to work. It's not a goal achieved in a 100% by Windows or OS X, of course not, but they are a hell of a lot closer than Linux will ever be.

It's just Linux that doesn't cut it, but lintards keep blaming everyone else for its shortcomings. LH said it perfectly: Freetards will never learn. And since they don't to accept that and change the state of things, everything will stay the same, and thus, that competition allegedly so desired by Linux fans will never be real.

blackbelt_jones said...

We get it. You don't take Linux seriously. You know who does? Microsoft. Read their press releases for the last few years. Read about Steve Ballmer's trip to Munich to talk the city out of converting.


You know those figures that say that Linux end users are about one percent, they also say it was about a half a per cent less than two years ago. So that's one hundred percent growth in less than two years. I think that's pretty good. I don't think we're prepared to handle much more than that just now.

I'm loving what I'm using and having a great time. The Linux community, the little one percent Linux community is thriving, vibrant, a great place to be. I know there are some people who think everybody needs to be using Linux, but they're just jerks like you. I'll bet if you ever start using Linux, you'll turn into Microsoft haters. It's in your fucked-up DNA.

We don't really need to take over the world. We just need to make sure Microsoft doesn't take over the world... and we're absolutely doing that.

I'm convinced that it's had an effect, and you, the Microsoft user, have seen the benefit. If not for Linux, Microsoft would have their "trusted computing" platform so far up your ass right now, you'd be tasting Ballmer's cologne. You're welcome.

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...

Mind you, I am only here as a troll. Please don't think I'm trying to talk you into using Linux. Clearly, Windows is satisfying your needs, and the Linux community doesn't want you.

Psy said...

We get it. You don't take Linux seriously. You know who does? Microsoft.
Well, in a matter of fact, Microsoft was forced almost literally gift XP to netbook's brands just to avoid Linux's dominance.
After that, people choosed XP over Linux, but the precedent was there: Linux can be dangerous on systems with "benevolent" hardware and configurations adverse to the common put CD/DVD, choose install.

Anonymous said...

Don't mind these Wintards, they are just here to spread FUD about Linux. If they really believe Linux wasn't competition they wouldn't be here in the first place.

Anonymous said...

You know those figures that say that Linux end users are about one percent, they also say it was about a half a per cent less than two years ago.

I see. That's typical lintard bullshit. It was not true in 1998, it's not true now. Linux has been growing since forever and it's still nowhere on the radar. But that's the best thing about Linux: good things have yet to come, and hope springs eternal.

I'll bet if you ever start using Linux, you'll turn into Microsoft haters.

Actually, I used Linux for years. But then XP came and Windows was not a daily BSOD anymore. Maybe that's the difference: the freetard community still has not acknowledged that their inoperating system is broken, and so, there's no way it can be fixed. But hey, you can keep on dreaming, even when faced with failure year after year. At least I woke up.

If not for Linux, Microsoft would have their "trusted computing" platform so far up your ass right now, you'd be tasting Ballmer's cologne.

You don't even know what the fuck that is. You've been reading too much stallmanian crap to think for yourself.

Anonymous said...

Well, in a matter of fact, Microsoft was forced almost literally gift XP to netbook's brands just to avoid Linux's dominance.
After that, people choosed XP over Linux


So, at an equal price, an OS released almost 8 years ago wipes the floor with Linux. Food for thought.

Richard said...

I had to fight my brother to save him from Linux. I'm not ready to provide 24/7 tech support every time it crashes his desktop and when he tries to watch a flash video or Fedora bungs up dbus preventing you from upgrading to a fix or using your power manager. Ugh.

Anonymous said...

The Linux community, the little one percent Linux community is thriving, vibrant, a great place to be.

LOL. It´s so vibrant community that openoffice and compiz are dying.

Anonymous said...

@February 7, 2009 12:18 PM

Yeah, an OS which is the flagship product of a Fortune 10 company is actually being forced to compete on the same level as a product written by a bunch of college students.

Anonymous said...

Anyway if Linux doesn't matter or is dying why are you here? On one hand people are saying Linux is a failure and is dying and on the other they are professing that they need to actively fight Linux adoption. You people are quite pathetic. :)

Anonymous said...

Yeah, an OS which is the flagship product of a Fortune 10 company is actually being forced to compete on the same level as a product written by a bunch of college students.

XP is hardly the flagship, and netbooks is a very special market, where price is an important factor, specially at the beginning, and with machines specially tailored for a few specific purposes which Linux can fulfill. As they have grown and turned into almost full-blown notebooks, well, not so much.

But I suppose that what you mean is that it's not bad for a free open source OS and I'd agree, since I didn't say Linux was totally worthless. It's only the idea of it being superior so loudly claimed by lintards despite the fact that XP can easily win the battle which is completely absurd.

Anonymous said...

You are going on an incorrect premise that Windows is winning the battle, when just this month HP released their netbook running Ubuntu. Freescale is about to release their own netbook and it will ONLY run Linux. This is an OS that two years ago, not a single major OEM actually sold this OS to consumers directly.

The fact that Windows XP is still around show how fucking oblivious Microsoft is to market demands, they got cought with their pants down with Vista. The fact that they are giving away Windows XP to compete with Linux is just icing on the cake. There isn't a single company in the world that can match Microsoft's sheer incompetence. It's amazing a company like that managed to reach Fortune 10 status, but it becomes obvious that the Microsoft of 90s is not the same Microsoft today, by an means.

Anonymous said...

Open source and Linux is like a slow cancer that is slowly consuming Microsoft's business model and the software industry at large. Even if they fight it in one region of the industry like "netbooks" (a part where a sizable tumor is forming), it's going to just metastize somewhere else. Microsoft is doing chemotherpy on itself now with royalty-free Windows XP, but like chemotherpy it doesn't just hurt the cancer, it hurts the whole body (Microsoft's profits). Chemotherpy can prelong the life of Microsoft, but inevidably the FOSS cancer will spread to more and more places and finally kill Microsoft. There is no cure. It's a slow and painful death.

blackbelt_jones said...

I just like to get you kids to call me a lintard. I think it's adorable. Now say I have cooties.

Here's the thing: You're all a joke. Getting together in your internet treehouse, forming "The He-Man Linux Hater's Club", and making up rude names about Linux Users (or Windows Users, or Liberals, or Jews, or whatever) just isn't something grownups do. So have fun you kids, just watch out for the Truant Officer.

Dread Knight said...

Linux is damn great.
Wintards, go buy some windoze licenses.


Yes, i'm using "windoze" because it's not to be confused with "windows" which every house and car has, imo not a good name for an operating system as it creates confusion and NEXT TIME blondie girl might wanna ask for windoze when she is buying her pc since she is not ordering any new windows for her room.

Bodhibuilder said...

To all of you who ask "Why do you rant about Linux if you think its dying?: people do that because they are disgusted by the misinformation, the absurd adolescent hype you find in every place on the internet however loosely connected with IT. No matter where you go you come across this "linux is better" shit. That's linux presence: 99% on the internet, 1% IRL. But that doesn't mean you have to put up with it.

Mousse said...

Alvarez, I really CAN'T believe that you are USING all that packets. The number of "packets" you have installed don't means that "Linux is better", just means that you can have an idea of what is installed. But it means nothing more..

I got dozens of programs installed, both on my Windoze, Mac and Linux boxes, and I use 10 or so...

Anonymous said...

You are going on an incorrect premise that Windows is winning the battle, when just this month HP released their netbook running Ubuntu.

Really?

http://www.osnews.com/story/20922/HP_Ditches_Linux_Netbook_Models_in_Europe

It's amazing a company like that managed to reach Fortune 10 status, but it becomes obvious that the Microsoft of 90s is not the same Microsoft today, by an means.

Lintards have been announcing the fall of Microsoft for a decade now. Sorry, some people here have memory.

Linux = internet noise and undelivered promises.

Bacca said...

User of the word "Lintard" = user is 12 years old emotionally (and probably physically)

Anonymous said...

I don't see how what you are proving. Your article says HP will not sell laptops running their Linux-based OS in EU, but the fact is they are selling it anyway in the USA. Also your article is saying that Acer's new netbook is going to run Linux and Windows. Looks like there is still a strong demand for Linux, even when Windows XP is royalty free.

Microsoft will start PAYING OEMs to bundle Windows pretty soon (rather then let Linux break their monopoly).

But anyway all these shenanigans aren't sustainable for the company. Eventually they will lose a fuckton of revenue, and they will have to layoff many more people, which will hamper their ability to compete. Which will cause them to lay off even more people, and so on and so on. It'll eventually kill them, and Linux can not be killed.

Anonymous said...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945402

new low in computer usage! Dont use your brain, just download random code!

Psy said...

So, at an equal price, an OS released almost 8 years ago wipes the floor with Linux. Food for thought.

Well, for Microsoft was worse, because people chosed XP over Vista.
People chose what they know and feel comfortable and predictable. Most netbook's Linux didn't look as a full OS either, and, off course, people will chose XP over some weird thing that did not have even a start menu.

I insist. The truth here is that given a good hardware and an environment where traditional computing and business fall short, Linux's net-centric free-as-a-beer model can grow and hurt you badly.

Microsoft learned the lesson and now Windows 7 is more friendly to installations from other mediums than CD/DVD, and MS is pushing it to netbooks even before the official launch.

Anonymous said...

"Looks like there is still a strong demand for Linux... It'll eventually kill them, and Linux can not be killed"

HAHAHHA! The funniest post yet! Please luser pass me the koolaid you drank! Loonix doesn't have to do anything, it's killing itself with koolaid drinking peeps like you!
AHAHHAHA! You crack me up dude, I'm sorry, but it's true, Loonix WILL NEVER be nothing more than a nich OS for G33ks that noone else wants, and have nothing better to do than masturbate to command line.
Dude you watch star trek or star wars? Ever see them mess around with a command line? Captain Solo sudo chmod the warp drive to 9! AHHAHAHA

Admit it guys, Loonix is a mess, always was, always will be! And there can be no apps because you guys won't ever:

a.)standardize GnomevsKDEvsXFCEvs whatever sad excuse for a GUI you come up with, they all have the GUI of windows 95, heck at least windows 95 gui was feature complete
b.)standardize sound, first Alsa FAIL, next Pulseaudio FAIL, next what?
c.) standardize 3d desktop, first Beryl>FAIL, next Compiz>FAIL, next?
d.) standardize LSB standard, FAIL FAIL FAIL
e.) FONTS in Linux still suck, they are spaced wide as your imagination that Loonix is actually USEABLE
f.)desktop efffects FAIL, turn it on, watch your PC mysteriously FREEZE at random
g.) standardize package managers FAIL! Yum, Apt, snark, fart, guys it's 2009, can you make something that comes as a single file and easy to double click? Do you need another 10yrs? And downloading apps from synaptic is as sexy as a FAT Jessica Simpson.
h.) besides openoffice and firefox and pidgin, and terminal, there is no other must have APP to use Loonix. At least in windows, if I want the latest open source, I dont have to wait for backports, which take forever to get the latest app. If I want latest pidgin or openoffice in windows I download, double click, done! In loonix download, missing dependencies and broken files galore and system instability!
Why in 2009 can you not make an OS that clearly separates the OS from apps so that if you download a new app, you won't break something else!!!! loonix is a house of cards, the base is too poorly implemented, standards can not be defined, they are always changing and breaks other things in the OS or other apps!
Please, don't tell me I've never used Loonix because I have, then I asked myself, why do I want to make myself so miserable? This OS makes my eyes hurt from poor fonts when surfing the web, when swatching flash or DVD movies, you can see video tearing and sound so barely audible,

Geeks, please try harder, maybe you can make something useful instead of spreading false lies that Loonix is the good alternative. When people use it,the are more than happy to PAY for windows so they can't tear their eyes out.

Loonix world=FAILed standards=doomed OS

Anonymous said...

Please learn English.

oiaohm said...

a.)standardize GnomevsKDEvsXFCEvs whatever sad excuse for a GUI you come up with, they all have the GUI of windows 95, heck at least windows 95 gui was feature complete

Why? Not everyone wants exactly the same desktop. KDE 4 is about making the desktop standard across all OS's. Are you for that only have to learn one desktop everywhere. If so why are not not at KDE?

b.)standardize sound, first Alsa FAIL, next Pulseaudio FAIL, next what?

Pulseaudio and Alsa don't have officil. standards connected yet. Standard for that is still in development.

c.) standardize 3d desktop, first Beryl>FAIL, next Compiz>FAIL, next?

Really? Just like asking if I should give you just 1 screen saver and that is it. What is missing from 3d deskop is covered latter DRI 2 standardized interface for building them without bring the system down.

d.) standardize LSB standard, FAIL FAIL FAIL
Slow but not failed. That slow that you failed to notice its changes.

e.) FONTS in Linux still suck, they are spaced wide as your imagination that Loonix is actually USEABLE

Yep also in the standardization project at moment and I have not seen you there sorting them out so you get something that works.

f.)desktop efffects FAIL, turn it on, watch your PC mysteriously FREEZE at random

Yep Sorry not random. Its call DRI 1 issue. DRI 1 is built for only 1 opengl program at a time. You will find desktop effect failures line up with running another Opengl program along side it. DRI 2 removes that issue for good.

g.) standardize package managers FAIL! Yum, Apt, snark, fart, guys it's 2009, can you make something that comes as a single file and easy to double click? Do you need another 10yrs? And downloading apps from synaptic is as sexy as a FAT Jessica Simpson.

Currently in development again and again you are not there.

h.) besides openoffice and firefox and pidgin, and terminal, there is no other must have APP to use Loonix. At least in windows, if I want the latest open source, I dont have to wait for backports, which take forever to get the latest app. If I want latest pidgin or openoffice in windows I download, double click, done! In loonix download, missing dependencies and broken files galore and system instability!

Again packaging issue you mentioned before. So basically you are talking about the same crap twice. Yet I don't see you in LSB packaging putting forward your ideas. Also get to know Oinstall and rexos.org packaging independent to distributions. More people ask for applications provided that way the better.

Now define of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. I am sorry lots of people here I would class as insane. They complain about Linux yet are not where to be found when developers want advance on direction they should choose.

If you don't ask you don't receive. The more numbers as a group asking for something the more likely it is to happen as well. Get yourself organized be part of the solution not part of the problem.

Electrofreak said...

what can i say linux is good but, windows like in the blood you can dump it no matter how bad it is.
Even an easy task of installing driver in windows take painfull amount of time in Linux (and the damn terminal). Its still got long ways to go before thinking about killing windows.
I am trying to use Ubuntu but the damn driver for modem just wont install. Linux not for begineer or normal HUMAN! (I DIDNT SAY I LOVE WINDOW IJUST WANT TO GIVE LINUX A CHANCE BUT ITS NOT GIVING ME A CHANCE TO MASTER IT) MAYBE THATS BECAUSE IAM A NORMAL HUMAN

Anonymous said...

Linux for human beings my ass.

Anonymous said...

KDE should just die. GNOME is bad, but KDE is worse.

Anonymous said...

I agree, KDE is too similar to windows, and also the Gnome interface, while not perfect, at least is useable and comes with GTK, which seems to be a favorite among linux developers. Linux needs some kind of distro consolidation, maybe like using Fedora as the LSB standard, and GTK as the preferred API for applications. There is no need to have so many disparate distros when you can easily customize a single distro base which is more cutting edge and supported commercially (RPM) than Debian.

Anonymous said...

I think the biggest thing that needs to be done is a joint software repo. Something shared between all the distros but yeah I know that is never happen. Heh.

Qt/GTK+ is not a big problem, as long as they are pretty seamless. For one Windows has like 384746739 ways to make a GUI app and it hasn't hurt anyone.

Anonymous said...

This could only happen if they shared one common distro base like Fedora. But Again the idea is good.


"I think the biggest thing that needs to be done is a joint software repo. Something shared between all the distros but yeah I know that is never happen. Heh."

blackbelt_jones said...

I love KDE... but the KDE4 rollout has been painful. They're doing a great job of development but they're not doing a good job of guiding the users through the changes. Even Linus Torvalds didn't know what the fuck was going on.

"Its still got long ways to go before thinking about killing windows."

Of course! And why should we want to kill Windows? I know that there are Linux users who talk about how Windows must be destroyed and... a) It's unnecessary. b) It's sort of delusional.

I prefer Linux, but there are all sorts of perfectly valid reasons why people might and sometimes do prefer Windows. Sure, if Linux were as ubiquitous as Windows, most of the difficulties of using Linux wouldn't exist, but that's not reality. Linux just isn't for everybody here on Planet Microsoft.

To me, freedom might very well mean a strong free software community and a strong proprietary software industry. The Linux user who dreams of world domination is just as anticompetetive as Microsoft at its worst. All I want is a choice and I have it, and so do you, so use whatever fucking operating system you like.

blackbelt_jones said...

A lot of distros is the result of freedom.

One big central distro is the dream of those who seek Linux domination. I think it's a mistake. Linux is unable to dominate the market, and maybe it always will, but it also can't be killed, and that's it's greatest strength. One of the haters mentioned that Linux has been around for 17 years, and hasn't carved out much a share of the desktop market, and that's true... but it's also true that, without carving out a significant share of the desktop market, it has been around for seventeen years. It can live on nothing. Linux is not a business, and so it cannot be driven out of business, as some Microsoft competitiors were. Decentralization is a huge part of that. If something happens to Red Hat or Ubuntu, If Mark what-his-name decides to chuck it all, we'll still be having this conversation.

It's true that predictions of Linux breaking through have often been overly rosy. I think that comes from a combination of wishful thinking, taking the software out of its cultural context, and the need of tech pundits to create sensational articles that will get clicked on. But Linux isn't going anywhere, so there is no expiration date on the Big Breakthrough, and I don't think we need to have a single Big Breakthrough at all. There never has been a year of the Linux Desktop, but the years have been pretty good. Linux haters can hate on and on. It only makes my fun sweeter when somebody else doesn't approve.

Linux isn't going anywhere, but neither is Windows. When do you suppose we're all going to get tired of hating the other guy's OS? Looks like this is going to go on and on and on and on...

Anonymous said...

IANAL but I don't think Linux can ever be a monopoly (even if it 100% marketshare), because no single entity controls it. It's kind of like saying "x86 processors" are a monopoly because almost all PCs use them, but they come from two different vendors (AMD and Intel).

Anonymous said...

But having too many distros means duplication of effort when there should be more consolidation.

You can easily make customized distros based from either from Fedora or Debian base. Why do we still need slack/gentoo/etc. Too many chefs in the ktichen.

By consolidating to one standard base that everyone agrees upon regarding structure, base, audio/video/etc, it makes it easier for developers to make applications for, and for the linux programmers to fix bugs for. Because an OS, no matter how advanced or secure, is judged mainly on the strength and quality of it's application base. Without quality productivity/gaming/video multimedia apps, it's just a tinker toy for desktop use. Without apps, it is less of an alternative. You can't say using "wine" is good enough as it defeats the purpose of having an alternative OS. So 10yrs from now, will we see consolidation and maybe the roll out of quality apps, or will we see mroe of the same. Just updated kernel, updated xorg and kde/gnome/window managers and maybe a new desktop theme?


"A lot of distros is the result of freedom."

Anonymous said...

Here is some funny stuff:

http://www.tuxradar.com/content/archives-best-distros-2000

"Remember that nine years is a long time in the computing world -- and even more so for Linux. In 2000 the OS was still regarded as a niche player, a fantastic showcase of technology for geeks but not yet ready for prime time. Today we see Linux on netbooks, Linux on Dell boxes, Linux everywhere; it's serious business."


Great! You can't make this up!
Today Linux has still less than 1% marketshare, if that isn't niche, what the fuck is then a niche player?

Anonymous said...

Linux is not going anywhere, as in it's not going extinct.

Ok. We get that. I doubt there are many wishing it actually goes extinct anyway.

What we are saying is that in its current state, Linux can NEVER go mainstream. You don't want it to? You don't care? Fine then. Just stop claiming the only reason it doesn't happen is because we are all ignorant and we don't know how to appreciate its "great virtues". It's not that hard, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

linux haters blog ?? what the fuck is this ??? , what are your feelings on GNU/Hurd ? or freeBSD?

bunch of fuckwits

oh i dont think this blog will be up much longer as it seems to anger 'freetards' and 'evil-hacker-types'

Anonymous said...

what are your feelings on GNU/Hurd ? or freeBSD?

I don't hear much noise about the year of the Hurd or the FreeBSD desktop, and how everyone is an idiot for not using them on their desktops. Do you?

blackbelt_jones said...

anonymous wrote:

But having too many distros means duplication of effort when there should be more consolidation.

You can easily make customized distros based from either from Fedora or Debian base. Why do we still need slack/gentoo/etc. Too many chefs in the ktichen.

By consolidating to one standard base that everyone agrees upon regarding structure, base, audio/video/etc, it makes it easier for developers to make applications for, and for the linux programmers to fix bugs for. Because an OS, no matter how advanced or secure, is judged mainly on the strength and quality of it's application base. Without quality productivity/gaming/video multimedia apps, it's just a tinker toy for desktop use. Without apps, it is less of an alternative. You can't say using "wine" is good enough as it defeats the purpose of having an alternative OS. So 10yrs from now, will we see consolidation and maybe the roll out of quality apps, or will we see mroe of the same. Just updated kernel, updated xorg and kde/gnome/window managers and maybe a new desktop theme?


Well, first off, I disagree with your premise that There aren't any quality apps. In KDE3, Konqueror is awesome, and while I was worried for a while, it looks like it's coming back strong in KDE4. I'd also mention gthumb, xchat, kate, amarok, k3b, dolphin, gimp, mplayer. I never cared much for either MsOffice or Openoffice. I don't need an office suite, All I ever do is word processing, and I love AbiWord. I prefer it to Word, although to be honest, the last version of word I used was several years back.

Wine is suddenly getting good. It's great for that one Windows-based application you still crave. For me, that's an awesome scrolling text-to-speech app called readplease. There's a free version available, but this is one of the few times when I paid the 40 dollars for the text version. It didn't used to work on Wine and now it does. I'm getting farther away from my point.

I think that open source minimizes duplication of effort, but, really, it just doesn't matter. It's like George Bush's famous statement that things would be easier in a dictatorship, "as long as I'm the dictator." Maybe you think Slackware needs to be abandoned, but there are a lot of people who would have us all using Slackware. You may think if there was someone with that power of decision, it would be a good idea, but there isn't, and there's no way that it's going to happen.

If Linux gets more end users, support will improve, and that's going to make distro choices a lot less daunting. There are hundred of different makes and models of car in the world, but people don't really find that strange or intimidating, partly because they know they can hire someone to take care of it.

Also, we're seeing a couple of distros seperate from the pack, and that's going to continue. That's going to make the whole thing simpler.

It's easy to see the shortcomings, but concentration of power means power struggles and controversies and bad decisions having far reaching consequences. "Duplication of services" means lots of people working on solutions from different angles, giving everyone a choice of different solutions. It's not good for taking over the world, but it's good for creating stable software.

Linux's biggest problem is cultural. Here on Planet Microsoft, we all learn everything we know about software from Microsoft. Microsoft teaches us everything we know about what makes a good application, a good operating system, a good model for producing software. Even people who hate Microsoft can't turn their minds away from the Microsoft model, and so they want to supplant the dictatorship of Microsoft with the dictatorship of Linux. They want us to all live on Planet Linux, except that it would be so much more efficient if we could all live on Planet Ubuntu or Planet SUSE.

It's not going to happen, so discussing whether it ought to happen is moot.

blackbelt_jones said...

Great! You can't make this up!
Today Linux has still less than 1% marketshare, if that isn't niche, what the fuck is then a niche player?


I can't imagine how anyone can even pretend to have accurate numbers for this. Where do yours come from?

blackbelt_jones said...

PS: I just looked up the definition of niche "a specialized market". It applies to types of use, not to number of users. So don't bother citing your figures, you're already full of shit.

Anonymous said...

But Linux serves an specialized market: a market consisting of a bunch of geeks who are too much concerned with hating Microsoft to actually do an useful OS.

Anonymous said...

I love how Linux users, when referring to Wine, always say something along the lines "for that one Windows application you can't live without" ... what if it's like forty-seven applications? Or two-hundred and nintety-six applications?

I mean, I've got a big pile of software that won't work on Linux. Since I use applications and could care less about the fucking operating system it would be butt fucking stupid to switch to Linux. I mean really, it's not like I don't get work done with my existing setup. It's not like it's real hard to maintain Windows. Linux users like to claim their so computer savvy but if that was true then they wouldn't be so hateful of those little issues in Windows that any experienced user could take care of.

Anonymous said...

I mean really, it's not like I don't get work done with my existing setup. It's not like it's real hard to maintain Windows. Linux users like to claim their so computer savvy but if that was true then they wouldn't be so hateful of those little issues in Windows that any experienced user could take care of.

That's the reason why there are so few of them. They can whine and bitch all they want but Windows works in practice a million times better that any Linux desktop distro.

They're few, but damn, they're noisy.

Anonymous said...

@February 9, 2009 12:20 PM

If Wine doesn't work for you, you can use virtualization. I use Virtualbox to run all the Windows apps I use, when I need to use them. I pretty much run Linux and Windows apps, when I want.

Anonymous said...

Let's face it... Linux (on the Desktop) is nothing for people who want to work. It's something for people who like to play. You're not playing World of Warcraft and start telling people, how productive you've become all the sudden, do you?

blackbelt_jones said...

I love how Linux users, when referring to Wine, always say something along the lines "for that one Windows application you can't live without" ... what if it's like forty-seven applications? Or two-hundred and nintety-six applications?

Well, I think you should probably use Windows, guy.

I was talking about about Linux users. Did the rhetorical "you" confuse you? Did you think I was talking to you personally?

I mean, I've got a big pile of software that won't work on Linux. Since I use applications and could care less about the fucking operating system it would be butt fucking stupid to switch to Linux. I mean really, it's not like I don't get work done with my existing setup.

I think butt fucking is actually a lot smarter than firing back a forceful answer to a question that I didn't ask. Maybe some Linux user somewhere tried to convert you, but I'm the one you're quoting, and I don't care what OS you use. Windows is a perfectly valid choice, and it may be the best choice for many or most people, given the reality of life on Planet Microsoft.

Indeed, a sizable plurality of Linux Users use Windows a part of the time.

It's not like it's real hard to maintain Windows. Linux users like to claim their so computer savvy but if that was true then they wouldn't be so hateful of those little issues in Windows that any experienced user could take care of.

I don't really know what you mean by that. I mostly prefer Linux because I prefer the applications, just like you.

Both OSs have a certain fringe of annoying obnoxious partisans who criticize the other, and they're probably a minority in each case. Often, they talk about an obsolete version of the other OS. Linux haters talk about the command line as if there were no such thing as a Linux GUI, or talk about how all software must be compiles, which hasn't been the case for at least 6 or 7 years. Windows haters are still going on about the "Blue Screen of Death", which hasn't existed since Win 98.

I'm an exclusive Linux user. I haven't used Windows as my main OS since Win98. I've used Windows XP occasionally but not much. I've never used Vista or Windows 7. My opinion on Windows really isn't worth very much, and I thank God for giving me the sense to realize that. The opinion of a Windows user about Linux usually doesn't matter much either.

Really, I think it's a minority on both sides, who keep talking out of their asses. Most Ford owner DO NOT have one of those decals with Calvin pissing on the Chevrolet logo, and these are not the people you want to go to for any sort of information on Chevy maintainance.

Changing your operating system is hard... it certainly was for me. It was also the most valuble educational experience of my recent adult life, but I can't choose that for anyone else. I'm more interested in helping those who want help, and when people are full of shit, I don't have a problem with saying so. But just because I think you're full of shit doesn't mean I think you should use my operating system. Indeed, to point out the obvious, Linux Haters should probably not use Linux. They should also stop talking out of their asses. But even that is something over which I have no control.

Linux (like Windows) is not the right choice for everybody.

Anonymous said...

Linux (like Windows) is not the right choice for everybody.

True. Linux is the right choice for those already using it, about 1% of all computer users. There isn't much more to it.

blackbelt_jones said...

That's the reason why there are so few of them. They can whine and bitch all they want but Windows works in practice a million times better that any Linux desktop distro.

They're few, but damn, they're noisy.


The cruelest part is that, although the noise clearly bothers you, here you are in the Linux Hater's Blog, the epicenter of all Linux vs. Windows bitching and moaning in all known universes, where you are forced to bitch and moan because 1 per cent of desktop end users don't like your operating system.

Clearly, you're not a dumb person, and I believe that one day you may figure out how to get away from all this infernal noise. Good luck with that.

blackbelt_jones said...

True. Linux is the right choice for those already using it, about 1% of all computer users. There isn't much more to it.

So I guess you must know the other 5 billion users personally, right? That's just too stupid to either defend or attack. Is that why you come here. Cause you think such sphincter-derived wisdom will go unchallenged? Well, you right, it's just not worth the effort.

Anonymous said...

Yep. And you are here too. Go figure.

blackbelt_jones said...

And now I am answering the idiots, and that's when it's time to go away.

Anonymous said...

Yep. Go back to digg, and keep masturbating to the year of the delusional linux desktop with the others ;)

Anonymous said...

@February 9, 2009 1:50 PM

Ironically I when I stopped playing World of Warcraft was about the time I started to switch over to Linux. But really I've been using computers for 15 years and I have learned so much more about computers in the last 2 years I've used Linux then in my 13+ years of Windows. I think the Linux community is extremely technical and extremely productive, you won't find anywhere with as many very good sysadmins or developers.

Anonymous said...

The real irony will hit you in a few years when you realize, that you can do the same thing with Windows that you've been doing all the time with Linux. And even more. I've been soley using Linux/FreeBSD for 7 years straight and now with Windows Vista, I don't miss a single feature from back then.

Anonymous said...

@February 9, 2009 3:54 PM

I am USING Windows already on a VM. How I am missing out on something I am already using? You guys don't seem to realize it's possible to use more then one operating system.

Anonymous said...

I am USING Windows already on a VM. How I am missing out on something I am already using? You guys don't seem to realize it's possible to use more then one operating system.

We realize that. What I personally fail to see is why would anyone switch from Windows to Linux to keep using Windows in a VM.

If anything, the other way around is quite more useful and makes a hell of a lot more sense.

Anonymous said...

Because I have Windows apps I sometimes like to run. The other way only makes sense if you use Windows more then Linux, which I don't.

Anonymous said...

Ironically I when I stopped playing World of Warcraft was about the time I started to switch over to Linux. But really I've been using computers for 15 years and I have learned so much more about computers in the last 2 years I've used Linux then in my 13+ years of Windows.

Hey, this is a point against Linux.

Just WHY have you learnt so much in the last 2 years? Probably Because you edited a shitload of config files and figured out how to use vi?

A car that is so complicated that forces you to be a an mechanic and an engineer is a big FAIL.

Ditto for operating systems.

Anonymous said...

@February 9, 2009 5:42 PM

Only if you are so cynical that learning about computers is a negative thing. It's helped me professionally, that's for sure. World of Warcraft had the opposite effect.

Anonymous said...

A car that is so complicated that forces you to be a an mechanic and an engineer is a big FAIL.

If you can find me a car that is free of charge that during the course of it's use I will gain the skills of a mechanic and engineer, I will gladly "switch" to it instead of my POS Toyota.

I really really wish there was a "Linux" for everything in this world, but so far I only see it for encyclopedia stuff and operating systems. Maybe one day if nanotechnology comes about, or we all transfer our consciousness to a virtual world without restrictive laws of physics, this dream can become a reality.

blackbelt_jones said...

Yep. Go back to digg, and keep masturbating to the year of the delusional linux desktop with the others ;)

Well, masturbating is a lot more fun than watching you guys suck each other's dicks.

Jesus, I wrote a whole long essay about why I think the "Year of the Linux Desktop" is a myth. You didn't read it, did you? I worked hard to express myself reasonably and intelligently and acknowledge the limitations of the Linux desktop, and nobody read it. I just get the same old childish vulgarities and the same old tired metaphors over and over. And why did I expect anything different? What led me to think anybody wanted to intelligently discuss anything.

Sorry to interrupt the cocksucking, Smoke 'em if you got em!

blackbelt_jones said...

Yep. And you are here too. Go figure.

Did I complain about your bitching and moaning? No, I did not. I think it's adorable. Acvtually, it is getting a little tiresome.

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blackbelt_jones said...



The real irony will hit you in a few years when you realize, that you can do the same thing with Windows that you've been doing all the time with Linux.


That's when I'll be kicking myself for missing out on all those licensing fees.

I've been soley using Linux/FreeBSD for 7 years straight and now with Windows Vista, I don't miss a single feature from back then.

You know, when all you do is watch gay scat porn, it doesn't really matter what OS you use.

Anonymous said...

I really really wish there was a "Linux" for everything in this world, but so far I only see it for encyclopedia stuff and operating systems.

Really? We'd have no life then. We build stuff to make things easier, not the opposite.

Yes, there are some people who find the process itself of learning a lot of fun and even addictive, but that is not true for the majority of users, and never will be. For them is a struggle which gives them nothing in return.

I could argue too that the knowledge gained by getting Linux to work is quite pointless anyway. It's not like editing modelines in a xorg configuration file is really useful for anything, and that's just an example.

Anonymous said...

You know, when all you do is watch gay scat porn, it doesn't really matter what OS you use.

Don't project your preferences on other people. At least they can watch porn without having a bachelor in faggotry.

blackbelt_jones said...

Linux has saved me a shitload of time and money. But I had to learn how to use it first. If you don't know how the effort is rewarded, you probably don't know how to use it. Even if you think you do. Or maybe you just don't like to do much with computers. I don't know what your deal is, actually, and you don't know what mine is. I'm perfectly happy to respect your choices, but making pronouncements about what oother people find will find useful is asinine. For all I know, you may not be someone who failed with Linux, and now tries to compensate by denigrating the success of other. But, man you sure do come accross like that.

It's not like editing modelines in a xorg configuration file is really useful for anything, and that's just an example.

I don't know what that is. Using shell commands to program the GUI is awesome, and I've got some shell scripts that saved me dozens of hours of the most repetative drudgery.

The thing about learning stuff is that once you've learned it, it's learned. The effort passes, the reward persists. One year of frustration learning Linux gave way to five years of fun and power. So far.

Nik said...

Linux has saved me a shitload of time and money...

You time must be damn cheap then. Other people just want to get their work done as quickly as possible.

Btw, if you even bothered to learn Windows Powershell, then you might really be able to achieve efficiency with command prompt under Windows, too.

Anonymous said...

Its not the technical aspects of Linux, its the freetard community that make me think of microsoft and apple less negative and biased than I did in the past.

Vista is far better than the stories about its limitations. MAC OS X ... well, LInux will never ever get even close. Or can you think of a group of freetards who agree on a common user interface guideline?

What did the freetard said below? He has 24951 packages installed and all work fine? Does he know what he is saying? Well, go and play with your package installer, get more carp on your machine ...

Anonymous said...

MacOSX is an example what Linux OS "could" be if everyone got their act together and really fleshed out standards and made concrete decisions. They standardized the GUI, made a clear API layer, a developer friendly programming environment, and made it easy to configure with minimal or no editing of text files. They also have browser FONTS that are beautiful to look at

a n d n o t l i k e L i n u x

where every character or menu item is spaced way too wide by default.

What LinuxOS needs right now is a good kick in the ass and a standards body to get the ball rolling. For far too long it has been more of the same, just one big beta test after another. Make Gnome the default or at least make the program API independent of the window manager, so if I load the application, it will load regardless if I have kde or gnome or xfce as the window manager.

If you can read between the lines of this blog, it is carefully crafted to provide insight into what ails Linux, and what should be fixed to make it better. I have no doubt that we all would love to see a true alternative appear, just make it happen faster.

blackbelt_jones said...

Linux has saved me a shitload of time and money...

You time must be damn cheap then. Other people just want to get their work done as quickly as possible.


What part of the phrase "Time and money" don't you understand? Clearly, the time part. I address these issue, and you just throw out the same clices without bothering to read what i say to see if they apply.

Which is cool. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Certainly, I won't be able to do that if you can't read. I don't care what OS you use, and I don't care what you think of my OS. The object here is to get you to say something stupid. When you do, it's like: DING DING DING DING DING!

Btw, if you even bothered to learn Windows Powershell, then you might really be able to achieve efficiency with command prompt under Windows, too.

You've got me there. I've bothered to learn Windows powershell, but I've got a pretty good reason. I don't use Windows. Hello?

Windows has the command line; by all accounts, it doesn't really have the command line applications. Now, there are a lot of reasons why people might want to use windows, however, and and based on my small research, for those who do, learning powershell seems like a good investment.

Can I say that I don't give a shit about Vista? I've never used it, therefore the stories about its limitations did not come from me. I like my OS, and if you like yours, I think that's great. Whatever your operating system is, complaining about someone else's operating system is an asshole thing to do.

There's nothing inherently wrong with Windows, and if I were to try to tell you, who probably uses Windows every day, that there was something wrong with Windows, that would just be ignorant. Everything I say about Windows would be idiotic. I'd try to convince you that I know what I was talking about, and I wouldn't fool you for a second, would I? Would I?

Anonymous said...

Hey guys, check this out:

http://qashapp.blogspot.com/2009/02/my-wife-gave-up-on-kde.html

And Mr. Seigo's response is as brilliant as always:

item #4 we can do something about. the other items are not things the KDE team is responsible for.

That is what I love more about Linux: screw-ups are always someone else's fault :)

Keep it up guys.

Anonymous said...

^ I always love how Linux fanboys always feel the need to take somebody's computer and throw Linux on it. Like "Oh, I see that you have an issue with your computer. Well, let's just throw Linux on it so you have to essentially retrain yourself on how to work with your computer."

Anonymous said...

I particularly enjoyed this 1-2 punch:

[Y]ou probably don't know how to use [Linux]. Even if you think you do.

I don't know what that is. (referring to modelines)

blackbelt_jones is the quintessential novice desperately attempting to convince the veterans that their experience is irrelevant.

I rarely see this point directly addressed, but the assumption that satisfaction level and experience level are one in the same is one of the most frustrating aspects of the FOSS community. The people who hate Linux the most have the most experience with it. It's implicitly obvious.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the fact that he doesn't have a clue what modelines is, means that perhaps it's not needed to know to use Linux? I've been using Linux as a desktop, full time, for 2 years, and I am not sure what modelines are either.

Anonymous said...

You've missed the point. You can't tell someone obviously more experienced that he is unqualified.

Anonymous said...

Yeah you can. With computer technology in general but especially with Linux the technology progresses and changes so quickly. You can't say you know Linux when you have already "switched to Windows". The whole Modeline BS shows out of out touch you Windows users are with modern Linux. Next you'll tell me how to configure a mouse.

Anonymous said...

Custom modelines are still necessary for optimal video performance in a variety of situations given X11's issues with buffering/tearing.

It's good that they finally fixed mouse configuration, by the way. That was an embarrassment for years. Apple Lisa got that one down in 1983.

I'll agree with the changing part. Linux changes all the time. Progressing? Much less so. More like entropy.

Anonymous said...

This blog is basically a giant FUD-fest. Don't take anything "Wintards" in the comments or the blog author says on face value.

Everything is designed to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt about Linux and nothing more.

Microsoft has two weapons against Linux: Attacking system OEMs who ship Linux, and hardware OEMs who make hardware and support Linux (which is illegal, but they do it anyway). Secondly the weapon Microsoft has against Linux, and uses time and time again, through their astroturf, and even 100% publically, is FUD.

Anonymous said...

@February 10, 2009 2:03 PM

At some point people did have to worry about configuring a mouse, and even not too long ago, basically EVERYONE had to worry about configuring xorg.conf. Neither is true anymore. How is that not progress?

Anonymous said...

I remember not being able to run gpm and having a mouse in X-Window at the same time. That was so lol.

Anonymous said...

I'll concede that, overall, video and mouse configuration has improved somewhat, but it's leagues behind competing desktop systems. Still all too often I'll be locked into a VESA jail, despite using hardware supposedly well supported.

Other areas have worsened. Sound is the most obvious. Ten years ago, Linux had a simple, unified, predictable sound system--a platform! Now it's a disgusting mess.

Anonymous said...

@February 10, 2009 2:33 PM

Remember the fun of trying to "tunnel" the X driver over the GPM socket? Or go through multiple emulation/abstraction hacks to get USB and mouse wheel to work? Then try getting the two to work together? Those were the days.

Anonymous said...

I realize Anonymous@February 10, 2009 2:11 PM is making a blanket statement, but I still find it amusing that comparing Linux mouse support to the Apple Lisa gets me labeled as a Microsoft astroturfer.

Anonymous said...

Bullshit on the sound. 10 years ago, if you didn't have a soundblaster or a soundblaster clone, you had NO sound. And fuck if you wanted to play two sound streams at once, that was basically impossible. PulseAudio fucked things up on some distros like Ubuntu 8.04, that's for sure, but it's been mostly fixed in Ubuntu 8.10. And in Ubuntu 9.04, you can actually rep some of the (small) benefits of PulseAudio, like per app volume control.

Anonymous said...

@February 10, 2009 2:50 PM

How many mice brands and types did the Apple Lisa have to account for?

Anonymous said...

Haha. I'm not sure what your point is since there's little variation in signaling between mouse manufacturers (especially during the time period I refer to). Linux's mouse support problems stemmed from multiple, competing subsystems, incomplete standards, and pointless abstraction layers, all of which this blog has covered.

Anonymous said...

@February 10, 2009 2:53 PM

You confuse device support with platform. Everything ALSA did to support the devices it has could have been applied to OSS. ALSA, PulseAudio, ESD, ARTS, and the rest of the ilk are all NIH, nothing more.

By the way, playback of multiple streams is still problematic due to the sound library mess.

Anonymous said...

@February 10, 2009 3:14 PM

OSS had some serious problems at the time. So instead of fixing the problems they made ALSA which was probably a dumb move.

I don't disagree but the fact is I can listen to music right now on Linux, and even a YouTube video in the background because sound mixing finally works. And if I really wanted to I could control per app volumes. As an end user, I could gave a rats ass about the drama and BS that lead to this point.

But really Microsoft has their own drama, their own extremely bad case of NIH (it's basically their business model), their own retarded APIs and abstractions (hell they introduced more retardation with Win7), and other shit as well. Apple does too. It's not a Linux problem, but more of a human problem.

Anonymous said...

No doubt! Win32 is the biggest mess in history. It's funny how these fucks focus on Linux when their shit smells so bad it's practically a weapon of mass destruction. Well as Wintards who are formally Linux users, I wouldn't be surprised that they don't know jack shit about Windows.

Multiple sound systems? Bah, that's nothing. For one, I can't even make this up even if I tried, Win32 has like at least 6 different String datatypes. Yes, a fucking datatype that holds fucking words. So you have some function that takes an LPSTR, but don't you fucking dare pass it a LPTSTR or a TWORD, it will fucking blow in your face. This is for like ANYTHING in fucking Win32, a function might accept a buffer XYZ and not ABC, even if they are basically used for same fucking thing.

It's really amazing people manage to write software to Windows, but it's not as amazing when you realize almost everyone who makes anything serious on Windows actually abstracts out the Win32 API. Even fully native applications like Photoshop live on an abstraction layer. Not even Wintards code on Win32 anymore, watch them rage on about .NET or some shit. .NET is just an abstraction over the incredible ugliness of the platform.

Anonymous said...

"I'm purposely passing the wrong arguments to a function and it crashes on me!" - yeah, dude, tell us more about your incapability of being a programmer.

Anonymous said...

@February 10, 2009 4:18 PM

Way to miss the point. There should only be one datatype for each type of data. There is NO reason for the way Win32 is designed, and it only makes it a pain in the ass to work with.

Anonymous said...

Due to licensing/politics, the version of OSS Linux used at the time (and still supports to some extent, I guess) was stale. Still, synchronizing with the upstream API and providing the extra functionality at a transparent layer is what what ALSA should have been.

The thing with NIH is that its negative connotation comes into effect only when the new, incompatible stuff doesn't work out. Jobs-less Apple of the 90s applied, but they bucked the trend with the integration of Darwin and NeXTSTEP and the adoption of khtml/WebKit.

Microsoft is the poster child of how to make NIH work for you. Linux, in contrast, has a bunch of rewritten stale interfaces that no one wants to work with.

Anonymous said...

That's a bunch of bullshit. That's why every three months almost like clockwork a new kernel release is out, every six months like clockwork a new Gnome and KDE with thousands of bug fixes and many new features. Blah blah blah, no one wants to bother with FOSS I guess. I guess this blog doesn't need to exist anymore.

And nice attempt to ignore the above comment about Win32.

Anonymous said...

Who, me, the guy arguing over OSS? Another anonymous is arguing Win32. I don't really have an opinion on it. Win32 is old news, anyway. Why don't we discuss GTK 1.2's lack of Unicode while we're at it? Or the QPL?

Anonymous said...

Each string has different characteristics and you'd use them for different reasons. Why they could have them automatically convert should you want to send a TWORD to a function expecting a LPSTR but really, it's not terribly difficult and as a programmer it's not a foreign concept either.

Anonymous said...

Win32 is a totally dead API anyway. Big deal it was created in 1985 people didn't have design standards back then. Microsoft doesn't but out crappy API anymore.

blackbelt_jones said...

Note: I've decided to appropriate "Lusers". It's my word now, my badge of honor, like "queer".

It would be incredibly easy for Verizon, the DSL provider in question, to accomodate Linux users, and they don't. And they are positively willful in their refusal. There's nothing technically different about DSL for Linux, it's just that they make you go through a flash animation song and dance to get your username and password, and this huge recipient of corporate welfare doesn't want to invest in a Linux version of the software. They wouldn't even have to pay for most of the development, but they refuse.



And the girl blamed Linux. She was wrong... but dear god, could my fellow Lusers please reconsider before heaping internet abuse on another innocent civilian who just doesn't get it, and how could she? Lusers acting like assholes pisses me off, because it gives the Linux hter an opportunity to be right. I hate when that happens.

blackbelt_jones said...

HEY VERIZON!

Anonymous said...

Have you actually dealt with Verizon on a corporate level? There's nothing "willful" about them. The left hand doesn't know what the right's doing. Verizon isn't a company. It's one hundred tiny organizations that treat each other as much as a separate entity as you would treat Staples (assuming you don't work at Staples). They hate their customers. They hate their own technology. They hate themselves.

Anonymous said...

@February 10, 2009 6:22 PM

Paint it any fucking way you want, it makes NO SENSE to have so many different data types that represent the SAME data. This is a retardation on Microsoft parts and even hardcore Microsoft devs have the fucking balls to admit it.

@February 10, 2009 8:00 PM

Win32 dead? Are you on crack? Win32 is still the ONLY API you use when you write Windows apps, it's only that you might be using an abstraction to do it. Oh wait I though abstractions are bad? FFS.

Oh and to add insult to injury take a look at Microsoft's latest extension to Win32, Direct2D. This was announced, fucking November of 2008. Not 1985. And it makes the shit Microsoft designed in 1985 or whatever the fuck look like total awesome in comparison.

You Windows fanboys are totally fucking clueless.

Anonymous said...

You win. Win32 sucks! Year of the Linux desktop 2009! Let's all use GTK! No...Qt! Wait, Qt via KDE! Because so many mutually exclusive deployment options are sooo attractive to application vendors!

Hey, it's progress. At least we don't need to worry about Xaw, Motif, GNUStep, and Tk anymore (unless you care about "real" UNIX systems)!

Anonymous said...

Yeah it's much better in the Windows world, with GDI, GDI+, WPF, Direct2D, oh wait, lets not forget Qt and GTK+ (both run on Windows). Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn. I wish you guys would find something to complain about that didn't apply universally to all OSes. I thought this was the Linux Hater blog not I hate Software blog.

Anonymous said...

Awesome blog!

To the comments here:
I am a proud Apple user and I think Windows is a much bigger piece of shit then Linux could ever be, but that doesn't make Linux not a piece of shit. Linux is also pretty shitty. Just Mac OS X is awesome compared to both. Anyone who doesn't have a Mac is truly missing out. my 2 cents

blackbelt_jones said...

Have you actually dealt with Verizon on a corporate level? There's nothing "willful" about them. The left hand doesn't know what the right's doing. Verizon isn't a company. It's one hundred tiny organizations that treat each other as much as a separate entity as you would treat Staples (assuming you don't work at Staples). They hate their customers. They hate their own technology. They hate themselves.

Well, I surely do hate them!

Anonymous said...

GTK on Windows is ASS. I mean, even more ass than it is on its home turf. Are there any Qt apps for Windows? Anything that anyone actually be familiar with? KDE vaporware doesn't count (not that it makes sense anyway).

The difference between Microsoft and Linux is the old shit like GDI, deprecated in 2001, still works in Windows, out of the box. In Linux, you don't have a prayer unless you hose your system frankensteining ancient shared libraries into to place. Let's see you run some GTK 1.0 or libc5 apps without a mountain of headache.

Did I mention these libraries probably no longer compile without extensive massaging? What about kernel interface changes, cuz you know that's totally stable. Hope I don't need anything in /proc. Or /dev. Oh shit, I need GCC 2.7.2 because this program's ASM constructs suck. Where the hell will I find that!

Anonymous said...

More old shit in the OS degrades the whole systems' performance and is harder to maintain (and therefore more prone to security issues). Just thought I'd point out that either decision has a bad side. If you can remove legacy shit from software it's always a pretty good option.

Anonymous said...

Both Apple and Microsoft show pragmatic approaches in their current systems. Old stuff is still supported, but only to a point. The crusty old 16 bit layers are no more.

Anonymous said...

blackbelt_jones you freetard. Why don't you just stop posting useless "essays" that only proves how pathetic Linux really is. What can't you loonies not understand? "PEOPLE DON"T NEED LINUX" and they "DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT THE OS" Poor imitations or clones of Windows based applications just wouldn't cut it for people who actually work in the real world. We have more sophisticated needs to do our work than your regular basement dwelling geek.

Nik said...

Listen, listen, let me tell you a word about Win32 API.

You know, guys, there is something very special about it. Really hot! It is stable. And, oh my God, it is well-documented! It doesn't change every few months. Functions there get retired only after very very careful and long considerations.
As a direct result, Firefox 3.0 installs and works straight out of the box on Windows 2000, no SP, which came around back in 1999.

Now, lets see which one of you managed to run FF 3.0 on Redhad 6.0 without compiling a few dozens of libraries. Hello, anyone?

Wait, there is even more interesting stuff! Netscape Navigator 4.0 came out into this world back in 1997. And it runs under Vista, just double-click the setup, click next a few times, and it runs!


I was really facinated by the talk that keeping compatibility was slowing down Windows. Well, you may be surprised, but it doesn't. Because of the way NT kernel switches between user and kernel mode, the driver model, how DLL are mapped into memory, and how Windows subsystem works. Windows GUI outperforms easily any Linux GUI on equal hardware. Even Aero, which would benefit some optimizations, wipes the floor with Compiz on any DX9-capable hardware (btw, Aero doesn't work without such exactly to improve performace).

P.S. And if you consider NET Framework an abstraction over Win32 API, then, my friend, you better never ever consider programming as your profession. Better collect postal marks, or grow plans.

Anonymous said...

More old shit in the OS degrades the whole systems' performance and is harder to maintain (and therefore more prone to security issues). Just thought I'd point out that either decision has a bad side. If you can remove legacy shit from software it's always a pretty good option

Sure. But if everything keeps changing all the time and you provide no stable platform and no backwards compatibility whatsoever, then no one can target you and no one bothers with you.

That is the case with Linux.

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...

blackbelt_jones you freetard. Why don't you just stop posting useless "essays" that only proves how pathetic Linux really is. What can't you loonies not understand? "PEOPLE DON"T NEED LINUX" and they "DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT THE OS" Poor imitations or clones of Windows based applications just wouldn't cut it for people who actually work in the real world. We have more sophisticated needs to do our work than your regular basement dwelling geek.

You have a funny way of demonstrating that you don't care about the OS.

Clearly, you're a very sophisticated guy. While there's nothing in your post that I haven't read verbatim about 150 times before, seeing it in All CAPS makes it seem a lot more compelling.

Anonymous said...

seeing it in All CAPS makes it seem a lot more compelling

Says the guy who resorts to arguments like "if the only thing you do is watching gay scat porn".

blackbelt_jones said...

Anyway, fuck this flame war shit. From this point, I will strive to insult no one in a personal way, to ignore people who are boring, and to do my damn best to say interesting things to people who are interesting.

And the persons who decides who is interesting is me. I'm the decider.

blackbelt_jones said...

Says the guy who resorts to arguments like "if the only thing you do is watching gay scat porn".

So you're saying that's not original? Or that I used all caps? I'm not making the connection.

blackbelt_jones said...

Oh wait, I see. You're saying it's not very sophisticated. I guess it isn't.


You know I never claimed to be sophisticated, but it occurs to me that in the future, being able to claim sophistication might actually be a good thing. So I'll try to refrain from such rhetoric in the future, but I think it's pretty obvious that was a joke. I mean, how could I possibly know what kind of gay porn you guys prefer?

Anonymous said...

With this crowd, the obvious answer is futanari.

blackbelt_jones said...

I don't know what that is. Do I dare google that?

No more flame wars!

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Dude, just let it go. Just be happy with Linux, we don't care.

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...

You know, before you guys bring it up again, I just want to say that, as a Luser, I'm perfectly happy with Linux's supposed 1 per cent desktop share.

Let's do the math!

How many Desktop users are there in the world anyway? A billion? I think I've heard that number used. So one per cent of a billion is what? I'm getting 10 million. (Feel free to check my math! I was an English major!) This is consistent with an estimation of Linux users I've heard once.

Well, obviously, there was a time when there was only one user, Linus Torvalds. That was in 1991. So if you go from 1 to ten million in 18 years, how much of an increase of that in terms of percentile? Well, each user represents a one hundred percent increase, so the total percentage increase over eighteen years is... a billion per cent? Jesus Christ, can that be right?

Well, it's the best my English major math can muster. I'm open to being corrected, but for now, I would submit that a billion per cent growth does seem fairly respectable.


But I don't really care about market share anyway. Or to be more accurate, it's not my concern. I have ample reason to belive that I will be able to continue exercising my preference regardless of market share. I have no control over market share. And therefore, up or down, the level of Linux's market share isn't going to lead me to do anything different than I'm already doing it. So beating me over the head with market share doesn't really mean much to me.

*Corrected. I had used "eight" years when I had meant "eighteen years."

blackbelt_jones said...

Dude, just let it go. Just be happy with Linux, we don't care.

Everybody seemed to care a while ago. I guess this isn't as much fun without the epithets.

Anonymous said...

Everybody seemed to care a while ago. I guess this isn't as much fun without the epithets.

No, it is you who cares about our opinion. We've never cared about yours.

blackbelt_jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackbelt_jones said...

So the entire internet took a secret vote on whether they were interested in my opinion, and you're the person they sent to tell me that no one cares. Am I reading the situation correctly?

oiaohm said...

Win32 API stable? Nik sorry its not you have no clue how much work developers put into compatibility layers for windows.

Only place that really does test case windows over the large API.
http://test.winehq.org/data/8ab829a68a993434506d5307e7681fc97bbc3fee/

By the ways Windows sometimes work and sometimes does not its developed without good testcases.

We know for a fact MS network did not have testcases. Samba an open source project has basically testcased there network stack explaining why Vista and XP network talk stuff up leading to patches in there last service packs. Basically MS has a major quality control issue. That section has been regression central for years.

You cannot call an API stable without have a test suite to prevent previously corrected bugs from returning.

On Linux GUI performance redo the check after all the X11 alterations are done. Development branches are way faster than current stable releases of X11. Also cuts memory usage in half for video operations.

Compiz has been working on a hack. So aero beating it is perfectly predictable. Need for hack will disappear completely. The core of Compiz is having to be completely recoded without the hack by the way.

Anonymous said...

SoftwareFromTheFuture(TM)

Anonymous said...

Whatever semantic games you want to play regarding the "stability" of Win32, Linux doesn't have anything remotely approaching it, theoretical or practical. Anything more complicated than a ncurses program from five years ago doesn't have a chance of working today without significant redevelopment or herculean deployment efforts.

WINE's inability to fully implement well documented functions from five years ago speaks more of the project itself than any inherent design flaw(s) in the API itself. Not that I blame them, other than for believing that such a waste of time ever had a chance of succeeding. WINE should join forces with the KDE Windows project for the ultimate in pointlessness.

blackbelt_jones said...

WINE's inability to fully implement well documented functions from five years ago speaks more of the project itself than any inherent design flaw(s) in the API itself. Not that I blame them, other than for believing that such a waste of time ever had a chance of succeeding. WINE should join forces with the KDE Windows project for the ultimate in pointlessness.

Holy crap, do i disagree! All of a sudden, WINE is working brilliantly for me! I have one Windows program that i love enough to pay for, a text-to-speech GUI called READPLEASE. Every every eightteen months or so, I would try running it in WINE, and it just crashed right away during the install, without going anywhere. Now, all of a sudden, ReadPlease works seamlessly, flawlessly, exactly like a Linux program with a link-icon on the desktop.

I'm tremendously impressed by the kind of long-term commitment involved in producing something like this. For something like a decade, WINE was crap, and now it's just perfect... at least with this particular application. After what I've seen, if WINE can't do something now, I would NEVER count it out long term.

Anonymous said...

That's the problem with WINE: it's always playing catch up, by definition. It's great that some program works for you, but WINE doesn't implement enough to make it useful in the general case. It never will. It can't. It's hopeless. By the time Win32 is adequately implemented, .NET will rule the landscape. As you said, it sucked for a decade. One obscure program working isn't enough to save WINE.

Ever wonder why no one else has attempted this? Not Apple? Not even IBM's OS/2 beyond Win 3.x (to which they shared joint custody with Microsoft since it was basically a kissing cousin of OS/2 1.x)? It's because this kind of project is impractical. Wooing developers to your native frameworks is far more constructive, something the FOSS community still hasn't grasped after 20 years.

blackbelt_jones said...

That's the problem with WINE: it's always playing catch up, by definition. It's great that some program works for you, but WINE doesn't implement enough to make it useful in the general case. It never will. It can't. It's hopeless. By the time Win32 is adequately implemented, .NET will rule the landscape. As you said, it sucked for a decade.

I also said that it works now, which really does go a long way toward making up for the fact that it didn't work in the past.

Ever wonder why no one else has attempted this? Not Apple? Not even IBM's OS/2 beyond Win 3.x (to which they shared joint custody with Microsoft since it was basically a kissing cousin of OS/2 1.x)? It's because this kind of project is impractical. Wooing developers to your native frameworks is far more constructive, something the FOSS community still hasn't grasped after 20 years.




Ever wonder why no one else has attempted this? Not Apple? Not even IBM's OS/2 beyond Win 3.x (to which they shared joint custody with Microsoft since it was basically a kissing cousin of OS/2 1.x)? It's because this kind of project is impractical. Wooing developers to your native frameworks is far more constructive, something the FOSS community still hasn't grasped after 20 years.




Well, all I've got is anecdotal, but my subjective experience is that it's been playing catch up for ten years, and now it's caught up... or, at least, it's playing a much better game of catch-up than before. Eveything in the world that works didn't work at first. "Thomas Edison said that he invented the electric light by running out of things that didn't work."

Again, this is my little anecdotal piece of things, but it's never worked before, and now it works. The difference is not academic, and it's consistent with what i've been reading. If it continues to work, and it works on more things, not working for ten years isn't going to matter. That is as it shall be.

Ever wonder why no one else has attempted this? Not Apple? Not even IBM's OS/2 beyond Win 3.x (to which they shared joint custody with Microsoft since it was basically a kissing cousin of OS/2 1.x)? It's because this kind of project is impractical. Wooing developers to your native frameworks is far more constructive, something the FOSS community still hasn't grasped after 20 years.

Really? See, I think that kind of quixotic long-term comittiment is practical for FOSS precisely because they have attraracted so many developers. I can't quote numbers, but it's what I've always believe, and look at what's happening. My god, somebody's coming up with a new desktop GUI for FOSS every few months. New releases of Ubuntu, Fedora, and opensuse every six months or so, and the disfferences between releases are usually more than cosmetic.

And then. holy shit, there's KDE4!

KDE4 has had its PR problems, and for mission critical stuff, it's still to be avoided, but nobody can say that a lot of work isn't getting done. Torvalds was right, they really did break it and put it back together again, and that's certainly been painful for users, but you don't do something like that if you don't have developers. I've used every version of KDE4, and it's not yet ready for prime time. But I'm absolutely certain that when it's finished, it's going to be ready for sweeps week.

And there's a new version of Gnome somewhere beyond the horizon. So it looks to me like a lot of development going on, so there must be a lot of developers right? Enough to take on crazy projects that don't pay off for ten years...but maybe, when they pay of, they really do change the game.

One obscure program working isn't enough to save WINE.

Save it from what? They've been working on it for ten years. Do you, think that, now that it's starting to work, they're going to lose interest?

I believe that the people who have been working on WINE for ten years have a better idea than you or I about its long term prospects. It's a non-commercial project, so it's never needed to pay for itself. I guess they could be wrong. Clearly, these are some stubborn motherfuckers,

I do believe that they're probably going to succeed because they're never going to give up, and that's pretty much what most success is. But I don't claim the kind of certainty you profess. I'm happy to just wait and see.

(I'm going to post this without much proofreading. I'm exhausted. Maybe I'll do some editorial suegery later on if it's called for.)

Anonymous said...

Yeah, your posting could use some proofreading.
Yeah, your posting could use some proofreading.
Yeah, your posting could use some proofreading.
Yeah, your posting could use some proofreading.

Anonymous said...

Oh come on all they these anti-Linux people are doing is spreading FUD. I wish they'd switch to a different tactic because FUD is pretty lame.

Anonymous said...

@blackbelt_jones

Don't take their FUD seriously. I think the best way to deal with people who spread FUD is to point out that they are spreading FUD and be done with it. FUD is never valid because no one has a crystal ball. So it's not even worth entertaining.

Anonymous said...

How does one criticize Linux without "spreading FUD"?

blackbelt_jones said...

Although we Lusers are not supposed to tolerate criticism of anything Linux, we are often brutally critical of Linux software among ourselves.

We all know the literal meaning of FUD, but another definition is criticism from those who do not wish Linux well. If you do not wish Linux well, you probably can't criticize Linux without it being FUD.

And yeah, I think that goes both ways. If I was a windows user, I would pretty much dismiss anything that a real Windows Hater has to say about it. I don't use Windows, so I don't complain about Windows. I have never used Vista, so I don't have an opinion about Vista.

blackbelt_jones said...

Yeah, your posting could use some proofreading.

No doubt. I had typed feverishly for two hours, and I just had to stop. I probabluy should have just used a text file to save the post.

Anonymous said...

FUD is comments attempting to promote a level fear, uncertainty and doubt about a product. It usually includes comments like "X has not future", or "nothing will save X", ie. trying to paint X as a soon to be dead product. By using FUD, you can sidestep the problem of showing technical superiority. It's a very common tactic in the computer industry, and Microsoft are pros at FUD.

Anonymous said...

FUD against Linux? What a nonsense.

If anything, I encourage people to try it out. If more people did, it would surely lose its status as something mythical and start to be regarded as the piece of crap it is.

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