Friday, March 20, 2009

Das Boot

Here's something silly. It seems like y'all are concentrating on boot times these days. Boot in 20 seconds! no, 15 seconds! no 10 seconds! But first, you need to answer me this question:


Why the fuck do I care?

Seriously, when's the last time I cold-booted my desktop? Uhh, a month ago? My laptop? ummm, three weeks ago? Oh, but I really wish I saved 10 seconds back then. I could have gotten a couple extra jerks in this month.

Or, is it that we're moving toward a Linux where the kernel updates every 30 minutes? So, if you want to stay on the train, then you better optimize your rebooting.

Those of you who still think boot time is important, go find your friend with a Mac. Ask them to show you how the desktop is back up even before they finish opening the lid. Ask them how many times a year they explicitly choose "Shutdown". Now multiply that by the number of seconds they could possibly save with a faster boot, and compare that total with the time they could save by not listening to your freetard come-ons.

The sad truth is, boot time hasn't mattered to most of the world's computer population in a long time. S3 sleep solved that problem. Perhaps this is Linux's totally awesome way of solving the same problem by ignoring existing technologies.

Think about your phone. When's the last time it booted? My blackbery takes minutes and minutes to boot, and yet nobody cares. Should RIM spend more time optimizing a process that happens maybe once every 6 months, or work on bettering their battery life, which affects me every day? Hmm, that's a toughie. Let me ask some freetards for some advice.

The only place where boot time kinda matters is for these bolted-on-the-side Linux firmwares like splashtop and such. But even then, who cares if I can get to a crippled desktop in 5 seconds when I could resume my suspended useful OS in just as much time?  Oh, but this is where Linux EXCELS. I mean, it's open source, so you can totally strip out all the features and BLOAT that you don't need, so that you can boot faster.

Hey guys, I have an OS that boots in like a nanosecond. It's called GRUB-OS. It even has a text editor, just hit "e". Pretty sweet huh?

1192 flames:

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Tom said...

Great point. Why do Linux users brag about both boot time and up time? If up time matters that much, then boot time doesn't.

Isn't this everyone's dream... to get it up fast and stay up long?

:)

Anonymous said...

Also, imagine how his wife feels [...]

I know how she feels on the inside alright.

Anonymous said...

My Vista boots in like 3 minutes. That's a hell of a lot of time. And I got it near the end of 06...

How many non-Microsoft applications are in your configuration?

Anonymous said...

FreeBSD gives you the option of Gnome or KDE when you first install it. It's not a server OS. It's an OS. You can use it for server but many people use it for desktops.

Anonymous said...

So because FreeBSD gives you the option of having a GUI then it must therefore be intended for desktops?

Anonymous said...

[security is] probably even worse. Think about it. Apple is infamous for monoculture, yet, despite a tight team working toward the same goal, they still can't catch flaws in ways their system interacts with itself.

If you had bothered paying attention during last years Black Hat you would have seen the beautiful cross platform java script exploit that essentially handed all of your data to anyone that asked, all because of FireFox 2's design.

Anonymous said...

The Paint.NET website lists it as a tool that competes with Photoshop so I don't get your point. It's on the main page even. Paint.NET is also open source.

Anonymous said...

Compete? Might want to read it again:

"Originally intended as a free replacement for the Microsoft Paint software that comes with Windows, it has grown into a powerful yet simple image and photo editor tool. It has been compared to other digital photo editing software packages such as Adobe® Photoshop®, Corel® Paint Shop Pro®, Microsoft Photo Editor, and The GIMP."

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWv8krmwjs8

there, that's oiaohm using linux!

Anthony said...

I want to thank the Linux haters who have sent people to my blog. However, you are way off base: I'm not a big Linux fanboy. I do dislike, yes, even hate Windows, but I have good reason for that - I've tried to explain why at http://tinyurl.com/cyzree

The person who wrote "imagine how his wife feels knowing that her husband could probably fix her problems in an hour or two but refuses because his hatred of Microsoft is stronger than his respect for her." should read http://tinyurl.com/d3xsll :-)

Anonymous said...

If you had bothered paying attention during last years Black Hat you would have seen the beautiful cross platform java script exploit that essentially handed all of your data to anyone that asked, all because of FireFox 2's design.

Your point being? No one claimed Firefox had a magic shield. Hardened computer users know vulnerabilities lie everywhere. Fanatics claim their systems are impervious.

Anonymous said...

Paint.NET is also open source.

But .NET is evil corrupt M$ world domination blah blah blah Miguel de Icaza's been paid off blah blah blah Mono is Microsoft's ploy to corrupt open source.

Anonymous said...

there, that's oiaohm using linux!

Who are you kidding? oiaohm could never articulate himself so clearly.

Anonymous said...

Your point being?

That the average linux desktop is probably not as secure as you'd like to think.

Anonymous said...

But the statement was arguing precisely that...

Anonymous said...

I've tried to explain why at http://tinyurl.com/cyzree

Good God, man. Do you even read what you write?

"she's wrong"
"she is just hopelessly corrupted by the Microsoft way"
"I SHOULD TRAIN HER"

All you've done is further provide evidence that you do not respect your spouse and that your condescending attitude knows no bounds.

Anonymous said...

"Why doesn't the Pageup key work?"

I explained that it does, you just need to use the "fn" key with it.

"That's dumb".

I muttered something about not using ad hominem arguments, but added that it's more of a limitation of the iBook keyboard than the Mac OS.


Easily remedied by the external keyboard of her choice, but, in your haste to "prove" Apple's superiority in every area, you neglected to give her one.

"Oh, THAT'S helpful! What am I supposed to do, move the cursor everywhere until I find what I want? Do these people EVER think about making things easy?"

She's right about this. Regardless of what Apple's guidelines say, this is prettiness over function. Double points taken off for depending on color to distinguish function.

"That's Delete."

More design idiocy. Instead of conceding that IBM et al won the terminology war and just renaming the thing, Apple names the other delete key "delete with x inside pentagon". Yeah, real intuitive.

Anonymous said...

Regarding Anthony:

I felt his "Why I hate Windows" post was too vague. His post spends very little time on his reasoning. With only two out of five sections giving any sort of reason why he dislikes Windows. Only one of the two specifically mentions the OS itself. The first section serves to establish that he is not an expert. I suspect that this is so he can avoid technical arguments. That's fine, not everyone knows the technical details. The second section is really more of a response to this blog. A bit irrelevant to the headline. The third section is about his general dislike of Microsoft. The fourth section is the only section directly related to his headline yet offers only generic reasons for disliking Windows. Most of his stated reasons have solutions to them. I guess that's why he wrote the section on him not being an expert. The final section is not even specific to Windows or Microsoft. At least he admits that it's a weak reason behind his dislike. I'd say he's mixing his issues. I think he should go back and flesh out the fourth section a bit more.

Anonymous said...

"Easily remedied by the external keyboard of her choice, but, in your haste to "prove" Apple's superiority in every area, you neglected to give her one."

Not everyone wants to haul around an external keyboard with a portable computer. Keyboard layout is a perfectly legitimate reason for disliking a computer. I've passed up a lot of note books simply because I did not like typing on them. And given that I use the HOME, PAGE UP, PAGE DOWN, and END keys a lot I'd never get a laptop that made me press FN to use those keys.

There are a few other layout issues I have with Mac keyboards. However none were as bad as Sun swapping the CAPS LOCK and CTRL buttons on some terminals that I've used. I understand why they did it but after twenty years of using the standard QWERTY layout it's just so damn hard to retrain yourself. Especially when it's just one or two keys that are different. I can jump between QWERTY and DVORAK just fine. Swap one or two keys and in either layout and I'll have problems.

Anonymous said...

Not everyone wants to haul around an external keyboard with a portable computer.

They do when they want to avoid arguments.

Anonymous said...

Tony Lawrence is a know-nothing retardo turd. When he's off charging $300 an hour for failing to remove AntiVirus360, his wife gets satisfied by the Windows XP pool boy.

Anthony said...

"Not everyone wants to haul around an external keyboard with a portable computer.

They do when they want to avoid arguments."

Sheesh: that whole post was tongue in cheek. And yes, I DO have an external keyboard and would have brought it if I had known she was going to be so unhappy.

Though if you had actually read the whole post instead of rushing to jump on this, you would have seen that she did get used to it.. though I still can't get her to give up XP.

And no, I don't cruelly refuse to fix her machine. It has some phyical issues, but she doesn't want to replace it. I'll like to replace it with a Mac, but if she really hates the idea, we'll buy Vista or Win 7 if it's out when she finally gives up on that old geezer.

Y'all really shouldn't assume so much :-)

Anthony said...

"Tony Lawrence is a know-nothing retardo turd. When he's off charging $300 an hour for failing to remove AntiVirus360, his wife gets satisfied by the Windows XP pool boy."

Actually, as I explained elsewhere, I don't do Windows work. I WILL help my neighbors for free as a first responder - if I can't help them, I send them off to someone who can.

Yes, I failed to remove that sucker. I *thought* it was gone, it LOOKED gone, but it came back.

Like that's never happened before :-)

Why is it that so many responses are ad hominem attacks? Are y'all really so insecure about your OS that you need to resort to that?

Anonymous said...

"Though if you had actually read the whole post instead of rushing to jump on this, you would have seen that she did get used to it.. though I still can't get her to give up XP."

I wasn't jumping on your story. I was stating that keyboard layout is a legitimate concern.

Anthony said...


I wasn't jumping on your story. I was stating that keyboard layout is a legitimate concern.


Oh, I didn't mean you, really. I mean the general picking apart trying to make me look cruel and heartless :-)

It all seems a bit childish, doesn't it?

But yes, Keyboard layout is important and the iBook is less than stellar.. and of course because I'm used to working on strange keyboards, I tend to forget that people who always use the same keyboard don't like radical change. Her reaction was perfectly reasonable.

Anonymous said...

He meant the other Anonymous.

Anonymous said...

"It all seems a bit childish, doesn't it?"

Yes. Unlike some others I am able to view your writing from your own perspective (as in intent).

Anthony said...

. I suspect that this is so he can avoid technical arguments.

Let me ask you something quite seriously: Are YOU capable of a technical argument?

When I say I'm not an expert, I mean that I'd have no chance arguing with somebody like Mark Russinovich (whom I very much enjoy reading, by the way).

But I'm not a techie lightweight. I know a fair amount about OS internals and system programming. I can hold my own against a lot of people and probably run circles around the folks here who can only resort to name calling.

I say I'm not an expert because compared to people like Russinovich, I know very little. But that's true for most of us, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

hi fag. by fag.

Anonymous said...

"I know a fair amount about OS internals and system programming. I can hold my own against a lot of people and probably run circles around the folks here who can only resort to name calling."

Good for you. No one cares. Go back to playing with your Mac.

Anonymous said...

Quotes from Anthony "Tony" Lawrence in the comments section of one article on his own site:

"Another whiny, no-knowledge Windows lover - if you had any brains at all, you'd know those of us who DO have brains hate it so much."

"But go ahead: defend your crappy OS. Be my guest."

http://aplawrence.com/Microsoft/av360.html

Childish? Indeed.

Anonymous said...

"Let me ask you something quite seriously: Are YOU capable of a technical argument?"

Even if I couldn't, would it suddenly invalidate my claim as a possible motive? I mean, why else go on and on about not being an expert other than to avoid technical arguments? Though this all seems moot since in the very next sentence I state that it was acceptable.

Anonymous said...

I can [...] run circles around the folks here who can only resort to name calling.

I dunno. Pretty much all the various anonymouses levied legitimate concerns, few of which you actually addressed. In my opinion, you're not looking good so far, but I wouldn't expect you to since this isn't your turf. In any case, simultaneously boasting your superior talents then backpedaling with "I'm not an expert" throws your own self-confidence and motives into question.

Anonymous said...

Ah, aplawrence.com...

Just another arm chair programmer that didn't abandon the .nix ship at the appropriate time.

The poor dude is just venting his dissatisfaction with his own life.
Might be hard times for him as his services are no longer valuable.

And the bastard is still charging
arm chair programmer rates!

No wonder his wife is pissed off at him.

The poor bastard should find himself a better job soon or Mrs. Lawrence will leave the house soon...

Yes, aplawrence.com we remember you here,
here, and
here.

Too bad you didn't read 'Who Moved My Cheese?' It's too late now...

Anonymous said...

Anthony,

Couple of things.

First you failed to learn enough about Antivirus 360 to know that it hijacks google and suggests its self as a fix. LOL.

I'd say that disqualifies you as any sort of expert right there!

Therefore, you fail at the basics of "being smart", and I can stop dealing with you inteligently. You dithering stupid head.

P.S. My web store all is all run and manged from a pure Microsoft solution and is OSS free. I clear about 2k a day;) I ship so much stuff, I gut to buy fedex shipping at wholesale rates and sell it to my customers for retail price! Hows the downloadable book business working out for yeah?

Anonymous said...

AP Lawrence is definitely an idiot!

Lawrence talks shit about Microsoft and yet in his Web site he's selling competing products that MS offers for free:

Kerio Pricing

No wonder he's talking shit about Microsoft!

What a dumbass!

Anonymous said...

Symantec offers a tool that does a real good job of killing anything left over from a bad install or uninstall. It's called Symantec Removal Tool.

Tool: http://service1.symantec.com/Support/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039

They also offer instructions to manually remove all of their products which not only includes the location of all the files but all the registry keys as well.

Though, it is worth noting that even though they have some good tools and documentation their uninstaller is a piece of crap.

MaraDNS said...

FVWM and its derivatives were highly usable compared to competing technologies. If anything, FVWM got closer to feature parity of Mac/Win than anything since

FVWM1 is very usable one it's set up; it's a bit of a pain to set up. One thing I really like about FVWM is that I can launch an application (usually Xterm, sometimes a browser, GIMP one in a blue moon) by simply clicking anytime the mouse cursor in not in a window. A right-click gives me a taskbar. FVWM doesn't need a taskbar to manage programs and launch new programs.

Of course, since clicking on the desktop gives me things like a "start menu" and a taskbar, in order to change the desktop or the appearance, I have to edit my fvwmrc text configuration file then restart FVWM (restarting FVWM takes maybe two seconds).

In addition, FVWM has the best virtual desktop's I've ever seen (no, I haven't seen Mac OS X's new virtual desktop so I can't compare). The virtual desktop acts like a big desktop; I can even, if FVWM is native, move from desktop to desktop simply by moving my mouse past the edge of the screen. Makes managing workspaces fast end easy.

FVWM1 is as close to a perfect desktop environment for a UNIX-like system that I have ever seen. It's a shame that Linux has never been able to recreate the perfection that is FVWM1 (I don't know of any other window manger that treats virtual desktops like a single big screen larger than the computer window, and has a very smoother focus-follows-mouse), but tried (unsuccessfully) to be a Windows wannabe. If I want Windows, I boot in to Windows XP (which is exactly what I do, since Ubuntu is about as stable as Windows 3.11).

Anyway, my head is out of the sand by I still love UNIX. Today, after a week of work, I successfully developed a simple Windows service that can be compiled and run from MinGW (a UNIX-like development environment that makes native Windows binaries).

It's nice to be here. There was once a time when notable people (such as John Carmack) posted to Slashdot; those days are gone and it's now just a bunch of anonymous freetards.

Anonymous said...

You have to wonder what Lintards are thinking when they design a product that looks like this: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7004794073.html

Anonymous said...

That Pandora thing reminds me of something.

Anonymous said...

@Anthony,

Who do you think you're kidding? You *ARE* a techie lightweight, and a ripoff artist to boot. I pity your wife, neighbors, and customers.

Anonymous said...

@Anthony

Also, funny how you close responses to your "why i hate windows" post immediately after LH readers post their first comments. If you can't take the heat ...

Anonymous said...

It's difficult to fathom someone in IT who "doesn't do Windows" in today's market. That's like a car mechanic who "doesn't do fuel injection".

Anonymous said...

http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/pandora_red.jpg

omgggg... hideous!

my old Spectrum looks like a piece of art compared to that!

Anonymous said...

The Pandora looks like one of those Toshiba "notebooks" from the 486 era, back when "notebooks" and "laptops" were different things:

http://squit.co.uk/computers/photos/libretto.jpg

Colonel Panic said...

I thought it was only Ubuntu trying to speed up the boot time? I know that Linux in general is not trying to do this, so I question whether this is really a valid point?!

PS. if you hate Linux, then you'll have to stop using it won't you? That means: Google, Youtube, the vast majority of other websites, your washing machine maybe, your mobile probs, you'll have to stop buying stuff at supermarkets, the list goes on and on. So, stop hating Linux, and accept that it's been accepted into our modern society. And stop being such a whiner, people don't like whiners.

PS. Blogger's servers run Linux.

Anonymous said...

Congratulations, Colonel Panic! You win today's prize!

MaraDNS said...

if you hate Linux, then you'll have to stop using it won't you? That means: Google, Youtube, the vast majority of other websites, your washing machine maybe, your mobile probs, you'll have to stop buying stuff at supermarkets, the list goes on and on. So, stop hating Linux, and accept that it's been accepted into our modern society.

This just shows that freetards can not read. Not many people here disagree that Linux is a great OS in the the server back room, especially if you use something stable and supported (like RHEL). Linux is a great UNIX clone; it's good for developing software with gcc/make/awk, using the vi editor, and is pretty rock stable when the windows manager used is FVWM1 (and no applications which depend on Gnome or any BS like the automount daemon run). Where Linux sucks is on the desktop.

I suggest you read through my rants to see why I only use Linux in a virtual machine (VMware player) to develop software.

Anonymous said...

@Colonel Panic,

Thanks for keeping the freetardian reading comprehension streak alive on each page of comments!

Anonymous said...

PS. if you hate Linux, then you'll have to stop using it won't you? That means: Google, Youtube, the vast majority of other websites, your washing machine maybe, your mobile probs, you'll have to stop buying stuff at supermarkets, the list goes on and on. So, stop hating Linux, and accept that it's been accepted into our modern society. And stop being such a whiner, people don't like whiners.

Only lintards, like of the common variety you can find on digg, believe that when someone searches the web using Google, he's magically using Linux. But thanks for the reminder, I don't believe we had this nice freetarded trademark listed...

IfYouUseGoogleYouAreUsingLinux(TM)

Colonel Panic said...

OK, anonymous, I suggest while your IQ stays at that level, your name stays at that level too. For your own safety.

MaraDNS: I stopped reading your site when you linked the words 'why isn't this stable' and 'alpha testing'. Go figure. It's called an alpha cause it's got bugs, silly. It's preeeeeeeeeeee-release. NOT stable. And don't go complaining about Linux when you see a dud fedora, go complain to the Fedora devs. You get my point?

And Linux desktop does not suck. I am using Ubuntu and it's about 325 times as stable as windows (well it hasn't crashed or hung yet in 3 months of using an alpha). Windows has hung to the point of resetting practically every time I've booted it (at one point I couldn't even launch a program without it crashing!). I've got 7 kernel panics on 2 macs since July last year.

I can do video editing on Linux with Cinelerra, faster than Premiere pro or whatever cause I can optimize it for my system.

I can do audio editing with cinelerra too.

I can also do video editing with blender.

I can do image editing with loads of programs, notably the GIMP. Please don't flame me for saying this with stupid childish 'GIMP sucks photoshop rulez' comments until you've learned how to use the GIMP.

I can do web design using classic old text tools like Geany or vim if I'm in a command line, or I can use a GUI to do it (although I can't see any reason why you'd want to do that).

I can do vector editing with Inkscape. Very powerful program.

I can do office tasks with Openoffice 3. Used open office 3, know how it works? No? Then don't flame me.

I can do system tasks with the terminal and all the goodies that come with it. I can recover practically any system with Linux, read practically any file system with Linux, recover any lost data due to lost passwords with UNIX. Or Linux.

What can't I do with Linux? Games. But if you're childish enough to spend all your time on the computer gaming then you might aswell stick with windows.

Colonel Panic said...

You're indirectly using Linux when you search google, or indeed just access the Google homepage. Learn a bit about how HTTP, DHCP and the internet works and you'll know why. Well assuming you know what operating system Google's servers run anyway.

Colonel Panic said...

PS. Only tards call people on the internet tards. It's rude and ignorant.

Anonymous said...

I guess I'm ignorant. Tell me the knowledge required to get Pantone working in GIMP. And adjustment layers. And any Photoshop feature since the Windows 3 era.

Anonymous said...

@ Colonel Panic:
usually it is said that the user of an operating system is the one person who is directly interacting (submitting input and getting feedback) with the system managed by the OS itself

if an OS runs on a desktop, the user is the person in front of the desktop, staring at the screen and clicking on the keyboard - and if the OS is Linux that person is a linux user indeed

if an OS runs on a server belonging to some web hosting service provider, the user is the hosting provider, and the OS is chosen with the needs of a web hosting service in mind (to each his own, i guess)

so, if i am on a windows (or haiku or whatever) machine running IE (or whatever) why should i care what OS is used to run the program that serves webpages to my browser (especially since an os agnostic data transfer protocol is used) ?

more importantly, why the hell should i be labeled a linux user just because of someone else's choice (of which i am not responsible nor i don't f***ing care) about which OS to use on something that lies thousands of miles and tens of routing points away ?

Anonymous said...

But if you're childish enough to spend all your time on the computer gaming

YouDon'tNeedGames(TM). I guess you missed the article that revealed that 25% of the total PC market is also in the gaming market. So the PC gaming market is approximately 28 times the size of the Linux market. You call it childish, we call it meeting demand.

Colonel Panic said...

I see your point about what OS you're using. I didn't mean literally what OS you were 'sitting in front of' as you put it. But, when you use google or practically every site on the internet, you are depending on Linux to give you that site. You get my logic now?

Anonymous said...

I can do video editing on Linux with Cinelerra, faster than Premiere pro or whatever cause I can optimize it for my system.

Come on. Not even the most stalwart of Linux defenders are claiming GCC offers more performance than anything. Even if your claim were true, Premiere is in another galaxy of functionality and productivity compared to Cinelerra. Too slow? Buy a new computer. Video editing is an area where you don't mess around with stinky computers you found at the curb.

Anonymous said...

You're indirectly using Linux when you search google, or indeed just access the Google homepage. Learn a bit about how HTTP, DHCP and the internet works and you'll know why. Well assuming you know what operating system Google's servers run anyway.

So you're using Windows (sorry, I mean Micro$oft Windoze) when you access a site running ASP.NET and most of the time you won't even know it. I'm sure that makes you a Windows user. Wow. That is so deep. So profound.

PS. Only tards call people on the internet tards. It's rude and ignorant

In certain cases, it's also quite accurate. I don't really like much the lintard term though. Deluded is my favorite word for people like you actually, and the place where you live: the Land of Delusion

Anonymous said...

wow i'm using linux rite now because i'm posting to blogger from my windows xp system! awe uh sum! linux is very easy to use, i never knew!!!!

Anonymous said...

Used open office 3, know how it works?

Hi, I need to collaborate with co-workers via Exchange server. Please tell me how to get OpenOffice to do this. Thanks.

Colonel Panic said...

"YouDon'tNeedGames(TM). I guess you missed the article that revealed that 25% of the total PC market is also in the gaming market. So the PC gaming market is approximately 28 times the size of the Linux market. You call it childish, we call it meeting demand."

So? The most searched for item on the internet is porn. So now you call it good to upload porn to 'meet demand'? In fact I knew that 25% of the PC market is for gaming myself when I wrote that, so you needn't of told me.

About the one trying to get pantone to work in GIMP: I'm not a serious artist but do know that GIMP is a very powerful tool, so if you want to get pantone or any other feature working in GIMP and are having trouble with it, there are lots of tutorials on the internet. I'm sure you'll find out how if you look hard enough. Have a nice day.

Anonymous said...

I can use a GUI to do it (although I can't see any reason why you'd want to do that).

Probably because it's impossible to maintain a web site of any significance hand crafting through text editors. Forget your own abilities because you'll never convince the content creators that archaic methods like hand edited HTML are superior to submission forms and automatic layout templates.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a serious artist but do know that GIMP is a very powerful tool,

Wow, you fulfill the Deluded profile perfectly. So that's one nice IDon'tKnowWhatTheFuckI'mTalkingAbout(TM) combined with the ever popular YouCanSwitchToLinuxNow(TM)

Colonel Panic said...

"Come on. Not even the most stalwart of Linux defenders are claiming GCC offers more performance than anything. Even if your claim were true, Premiere is in another galaxy of functionality and productivity compared to Cinelerra. Too slow? Buy a new computer. Video editing is an area where you don't mess around with stinky computers you found at the curb."

And have you used Cinelerra yourself? Have you explored all its features?

No, GCC isn't the best compiler on the planet, but it's sure a 'galaxy better' than unoptimized binaries such as Premiere!!! And don't ask me whether I've used Premiere cause I have it on my Windows partition. Sure if you're in the hollywood industry you'd be using premiere or perhaps final cut pro (which I also have), but then you probably wouldn't be posting childish things on the internet.

Anonymous said...

And don't ask me whether I've used Premiere cause I have it on my Windows partition.

Hahaha. This keeps getting better and better.

Anonymous said...

Colonel Panic, you can NOT do comparable editing with Cinelerra as you can with ANY commercial package or even iMovie/WMM. Shut the fuck up and stop lying about that, because that is a HUGE sticking point. Cinelerra is nowhere near ANY other video editing app. I've used it extensively, and it does NOT compare to Premier Pro. You are fucking lying if you think that, or completely out of your mind. You must be only "editing" extremely simple 30 second clips from an old SD tape camcorder if you think Cinelerra compares with Premier Pro.

The rest of the shit you mentioned are just typical low quality, unfinished clones of real software. Wait till the developers of those loser apps give up on them like how it always happens in FOSStardia, then where will you be?

Colonel Panic said...

"Probably because it's impossible to maintain a web site of any significance hand crafting through text editors. Forget your own abilities because you'll never convince the content creators that archaic methods like hand edited HTML are superior to submission forms and automatic layout templates."

well thanks for the explanation. So that's why I have the GUI! Although I seem to have the intelligence to be able to craft PHP websites in a terminal, and rarely use GUIs.

"Wow, you fulfill the Deluded profile perfectly. So that's one nice IDon'tKnowWhatTheFuckI'mTalkingAbout(TM) combined with the ever popular YouCanSwitchToLinuxNow(TM)"

Have you used the GIMP extensively and compared all of its features with those of Photoshop?

Colonel Panic said...

I don't think Cinelerra compares with Premiere Pro. But it is sure damn good and fulfills alot of people's needs. If you want something more than Cinelerra you wouldn't be here cause you'd be on a higher rung in your career.

Anonymous said...

Have you used the GIMP extensively and compared all of its features with those of Photoshop?

Nope. That's why I don't go around telling other people YouDon'tNeedThisOrThat(TM) without having the slightest clue like you Deluded People do all the time.

Colonel Panic said...

Also, exchange server is propietary so you need MS office to do that I'm afraid. But that's only cause MS office says so and if you persuade your co-workers to use open source software you can all use it. It is much better when it comes down to it. PS. I'm gonna stop arguing with everyone on here, not because I think I've lost my point but because of a few reasons:
I don't think it's very constructive as you just resort to anything to try and put people like me down, even name calling.

I also am sick of tired with arguing with people as stupid as you to be honest. And I've realized that I'm never gonna convince any of you. I'm gonna go somewhere else cause you're not worth it.

Colonel Panic said...

If you haven't used GIMP extensively then shutup saying that GIMP isn't a very powerful tool. You don't know what you're talking about.

Anonymous said...

So now you call it good to upload porn to 'meet demand'?

Yes! I guess you haven't been paying attention, but pornography is one of the healthiest industries.

I can tell you're not a serious artist because you don't even know what Pantone is. It's impossible for GIMP to support it due to philosophy/legal issues, yet it's a requirement to work in the design industry.

Please, stop speaking as to the "power" of tools if you aren't even familiar with the basic requirements.

Anonymous said...

...I have it on my Windows partition

Another pretender. Come back here with your evangelism once you've obliterated Windows and stuck with Linux solely for six months. Using Windows at work/school/friend's house is cheating.

Anonymous said...

If you haven't used GIMP extensively then shutup saying that GIMP isn't a very powerful tool. You don't know what you're talking about.

It might seem like a powerful tool for you, the Deluded, because it was you who claimed you are no serious artist, so it is you who is talking out of his ass speaking for others and pretending to know better. And so it is you who should shut the fuck up.

I also am sick of tired with arguing with people as stupid as you to be honest. And I've realized that I'm never gonna convince any of you. I'm gonna go somewhere else cause you're not worth it.

That's right. I recommend the always lovely Land of Delusion, where you'd fit perfectly.

Anonymous said...

"If you haven't used GIMP extensively then shutup saying that GIMP isn't a very powerful tool. You don't know what you're talking about."

Well I have used it extensively and can attest to its extremely poor performance. Actions take a long time to execute compared with REAL apps (even Picasa). The blur brush literally lags behind the cursor movements when you use it. Only recently has it gotten dynamic brush sizes (after other programs had this for over a decade) and there's still a size limit to them. Text is extremely basic, and you have to run slow scripts for the few effects available. GIMP windows launch at the wrong size. I could go on but it's pointless, just like using desktop Linux.

Anonymous said...

It's funny, these people. They'd swear to you that Windows is useless for anything (except for games, but ComputersAreNotMeantForGames(TM)
BuyAGameConsole(TM) anyway), but for some strange reason they always end up admitting they have a Windows partition on their hard drives.

Dunno, it's a bit hard for anyone to take them seriously.

Anonymous said...

for some strange reason they always end up admitting they have a Windows partition on their hard drives.

What else is strange is that most Linux haters actually seem to assume good faith in terms of assuming we're combating full Linux converts. This has downsides for them in that we (justifiably) assume ignorance of Mac/Windows.

It's hard to win an argument against someone familiar with both systems, so at some point they have to admit familiarity with Windows and its applications, but, unfortunately, doing so completely invalidates their arguments that Linux is sufficient for general purpose computing.

I'm the one who issued the six month challenge, and I've actually done it. I used Linux (or some other form of desktop freenix) exclusively or nearly so for over half a decade. Like many here, I was probably more hard core than the majority of evangelists I now combat, but it doesn't change the fact that I deluded myself for several years. The emperor has no clothes.

MaraDNS said...

I stopped reading your site when you linked the words 'why isn't this stable' and 'alpha testing'. Go figure. It's called an alpha cause it's got bugs, silly

Yes, another example of why you're a freetard without reading comprehension skill. Let me give you a clue: The version of Linux I was having problems with wasn't an alpha-test release. Please learn to read; one you do this read my blog, and get some clue.

"Works for me" is a classic Freetard retort; just because Linux works for you doesn't mean the problems I had running Linux were a hallucination I was having.

MaraDNS said...


I'm the one who issued the six month challenge, and I've actually done it. I used Linux (or some other form of desktop freenix) exclusively or nearly so for over half a decade.


I used nothing but Linux for over eight years myself (mid 1995-late 2003); and yes, Linux sucks on the desktop. It sucked in 1995; it sucked in 2003, and it still sucks in 2009.

Anonymous said...

"Windows has hung to the point of resetting practically every time I've booted it (at one point I couldn't even launch a program without it crashing!)"

Then you're a serious fucktard. You probably Googled for several days trying to set up basic functionality in Ubuntu but didn't take the 5 minutes of simple steps to properly maintain your Windows installation.

Anonymous said...

if you hate Linux, then you'll have to stop using it won't you? That means: Google, Youtube, the vast majority of other websites...

Shit, the Linux bastards had access to Solaris 8 source code to make Linux a decent server OS:

1999-10-01
Sun to make Solaris code available
More
More
More

2000-01-28
Solaris 8 source code left open
More
More

2000-12-06
Sun Unveils Solaris 8 OE Source Code
More

From Sun's Web site:

Program


FAQ


Package


Process


License


2001-06-29
Sun Continues to Offer Source Downloads
More


2002-03-31
Does Solaris source license interfere with Linux contributions?

Anonymous said...

I also am sick of tired with arguing with people as stupid as you to be honest. And I've realized that I'm never gonna convince any of you. I'm gonna go somewhere else cause you're not worth it.

Thanks for stopping by to regurgitate tired lintard delusional talking points. Everything you spewed has been thoroughly debunked 100 times over on this blog. Please feel free to spend a little time reading the blog and comments.

Anonymous said...

Almost everyone posting here has used Linux extensively. I started with Slackware 10 on a 2.4 kernel. I've used every Ubuntu version since 4.10 (yeah, that'd be "Warty Warthog") up to 8.10. I've used every major app from Rythmbox to Cinelerra and most of them suck compared to the Windows apps they're trying so hard to copy. Desktop Linux is not faster, it is not better, it is not even useful beyond being nothing more than a glorified kiosk to run Firefox. Lintards can lie to me longer.

Colonel Panic said...

"Then you're a serious fucktard. You probably Googled for several days trying to set up basic functionality in Ubuntu but didn't take the 5 minutes of simple steps to properly maintain your Windows installation."

Well it took me about 10 minutes to set up either operating system. PS. I hadn't connected to the internet yet before windows started doing that. It was a fully clean installation. And FYI all my hardware fully functioned out of the box in Ubuntu. In windows, my mouse half functioned and my webcam, ethernet, sound and graphics card weren't detected. So why do you think it takes days to set up Ubuntu? Where do you get that info from? You've either been brainwashed or had a very bad experience with Ubuntu.

Anonymous said...

Come on, that is the oldest argument of all:

WorksForMe(TM)

MaraDNS said...

And FYI all my hardware fully functioned out of the box in Ubuntu. In windows, my mouse half functioned and my webcam, ethernet, sound and graphics card weren't detected.

Let me guess: You installed Windows XP.

All of that hardware will work with Windows XP; all you need to do is a couple of Google searches and install the relevant drivers. Since our office uses Dell computers, I can get all of my drivers from dell.com.

Lets compare this to a version of Linux from the same era as Windows XP. The only version of Linux from the Windows XP era still supported today is RHEL 3. They have long since stopped making new drivers available; the only support is critical security updates. Windows XP, also from the same era, works just fine on a new computer once you install drivers. The equivalent Linux kernel doesn't have any new drivers at all.

It's because the Linux developers have no discipline and waste everyone's time with needless API changes. The Linux kernel developers need to stop doing this; with Windows, new hardware works just fine with a 2002-era kernel, since the driver ABI and API is rock-solid stable. Heck, you can even run Windows network card drivers in Linux with ndiswrapper.

This is why Linux sucks: For me to use new drivers with Linux, I have to use an unstable new kernel. Forcing people to upgrade their entire OS just to get their network card to work is not acceptable in the real world.

Anonymous said...

"The constant preaching, nagging, belittling? Also, imagine how his wife feels knowing that her husband could probably fix her problems in an hour or two but refuses because his hatred of Microsoft is stronger than his respect for her."

EXACTLY!!! And the thing is, nowadays you CANNOT be a one-trick pony, (as a previous poster mentioned). Boot time, uptime is just a part of the equation. The real issue, does the customer WANT or LIKE the OS/APPS they currently have? You just can't shove linux down somebody's throat, as a be-all end-all solution. It's not.

As in some cases, you would rather have a BSD based firewall like monowall/pfsense, rather then using a generic linux-based one.
Linux is only as secure as the packages put together, and if any of the packages aren't secure by design or the OS not battle hardened, it's a false sense of ssecurity "just using linux" by itself.

Colonel Panic said...

MaraDNS. Obviously these were lack of driver issues. And obviously I donwnloaded the appropriate drivers for my whitebox machine straight away. Well, for the ethernet driver I had to hijack my mum's laptop cause all the other 4 computers were in use, and my computer was running shitty windoze that wouldn't let me connect to the internet until i install a bloody driver. But you know why there are so many updates to Linux compared with Windows? It's cause it gets updated much more often (surprise surprise) due to much more effective bug reporting than proprietary OSes. It means that security holes get fixed much more. That is why Linux is a helluvalot more secure than Windows (well that and its origins too). And also, upgrading your kernel is NOT upgrading your OS. All you need to do once you've upgraded your kernel is to restart.

And in Linux, the only thing you have to restart for is either a particularly nasty crash (very rare unless using unstable software), or a kernel update. You don't even need to restart to install a display driver. And if the GUI crashes, you can drop down to a TTY to fix the damn thing.

The same can't be said of Windows.

And those API changes are not needless.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely XP is from the era of, well, about now? I installed a XP update like, well, a couple days ago. And the CD I was installing off was SP3, so that makes it 2007 don't it? I don't know where you get your dates from but I certainly do know what the word update and service-pack means.

I ain't stupid.
So long.

Anonymous said...

@Colonel Panic

//I suggest while your IQ stays at that level, your name stays at that level too. For your own safety.//

Internet tough guy. I've seen where you live.

Colonel Panic said...

"Works for me" is a classic Freetard retort; just because Linux works for you doesn't mean the problems I had running Linux were a hallucination I was having."

I am inclined to stop arguing with someone who calls me a freetard. It makes them look very stupid.

Anonymous said...

"And FYI all my hardware fully functioned out of the box in Ubuntu. In windows, my mouse half functioned and my webcam, ethernet, sound and graphics card weren't detected."

And I can point to at least 5 personal installations of Windows XP where everything DID work perfectly. And not on the greatest hardware either (including a couple m7vig 400 boards with that integrated UniChrome graphics bullshit). We can trade anecdotes like that all day, but the fact is overall Linux is a huge fail when it comes to what counts: the applications.

Colonel Panic said...

"Internet tough guy. I've seen where you live."

Oh have you now

Anonymous said...

@ColonelPanic

//so you need MS office to do that I'm afraid.//

Ultimate freetard fail. You do know that Evolution can connect to Exchange servers now, yes?

Yet Evolution still sucks ass. Just like all the other shitcock apps you mention.

Colonel Panic said...

"but the fact is overall Linux is a huge fail when it comes to what counts: the applications."

That's not Linux's fault. It's partly cause of people like you not adopting it. If more people used it it would have a much stronger chance of getting better applications. Obviously.

Colonel Panic said...

What I mean is, nothing starts out perfect, does it.

Anonymous said...

@ColonelPanic

Didn't you just post that you'd abandon these boards? Yet you keep reply to us. Fuckwit Freetard.

Anonymous said...

"And if the GUI crashes, you can drop down to a TTY to fix the damn thing."

Right, but when you have a crash in X (which happens a lot lately), you've just lost everything you were working on. Compare that to an explorer.exe crash (rare, usually due to a bad third-party driver) where you can just restart explorer.exe from WTM and the other apps are still running.

Colonel Panic said...

"Ultimate freetard fail. You do know that Evolution can connect to Exchange servers now, yes?

Yet Evolution still sucks ass. Just like all the other shitcock apps you mention."

Well do you expect me to know everything about everything? Maybe I gave off that impression :P

Well if evolution is shitcock as you call it, why don't you make it better? Ranting on some lame blog that it sucks isn't gonna do a blind bit of fuck about it.

Colonel Panic said...

IN FACT: NOTHING ON THIS BLOG WILL DO A BLIND BIT OF FUCK TOWARDS OR AGAINST LINUX. THIS BLOG IS SOLELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE WRITERS. I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS BLOG: THIS BLOG SUCKS.

Anonymous said...

But you know why there are so many updates to Linux compared with Windows? It's cause it gets updated much more often (surprise surprise) due to much more effective bug reporting than proprietary OSes.

Hahaha. Seems like the Delusion is strong on this one. I'll tell you what you don't want to hear: there are so many updates in Deluded Land because everything's in permanent alpha-quality state. Who do you think you're talking too?

That is why Linux is a helluvalot more secure than Windows (well that and its origins too).

Nice SecureByMythologicalDesign(TM) there.

That's not Linux's fault. It's partly cause of people like you not adopting it. If more people used it it would have a much stronger chance of getting better applications. Obviously.

And that's a wonderful BlameLiesOnOthers(TM).

Dude, you're on fire. Keep it upÇ!

Anonymous said...

@ColonelPanic

//Well if evolution is shitcock as you call it, why don't you make it better? //

Maybe because, unlike your "Want fries with that?" ass, I can actually afford to purchase software that fucking works. Like Outlook 2007.

Colonel Panic said...

"Right, but when you have a crash in X (which happens a lot lately), you've just lost everything you were working on. Compare that to an explorer.exe crash (rare, usually due to a bad third-party driver) where you can just restart explorer.exe from WTM and the other apps are still running."

NO I won't compare those two crashes. An explorer crash is equivalent to a nautilus or plasma crash. A X crash is equivalent to a....well there is no equivalent on Windows. If the same happened on Windows the system would crash and you'd get a BSOD.

Colonel Panic said...

How many times has X crashed on you then? Also why are you using Linux if you're bashing it?

Colonel Panic said...

"Hahaha. Seems like the Delusion is strong on this one. I'll tell you what you don't want to hear: there are so many updates in Deluded Land because everything's in permanent alpha-quality state. Who do you think you're talking too?

That is why Linux is a helluvalot more secure than Windows (well that and its origins too).

Nice SecureByMythologicalDesign(TM) there.

That's not Linux's fault. It's partly cause of people like you not adopting it. If more people used it it would have a much stronger chance of getting better applications. Obviously.

And that's a wonderful BlameLiesOnOthers(TM).

Dude, you're on fire. Keep it upÇ!"

Your counter...erm...doesn't really deserve the word arguments don't seem to say anything. Writing some lame comment like BlameLiesOnOthers(TM) is just stupid. Welcome to the real, intelligent, world, little worm.

Anonymous said...

"That's not Linux's fault. It's partly cause of people like you not adopting it."

Yeah it's my fault for not using a less-functional environment with no apps that I can use to get my multimedia work done, sorry. My bad. I thought it was the 6-month planned re-breakage of basically everything or the sudden inclusion of half-baked technologies such as PulseAudio. I'm looking forward to the future excuses about it being all ext4's fault, or better yet, that the Loonix apps weren't written to properly support ext4.

Much like how on GNOME when everything you launch appears in the top left-hand corner of the screen no matter where you repositioned it last time you closed it, but that's not the fault of the window manager for not remembering window positions, it's because the app wasn't written properly (yet it happens with Totem).

Anonymous said...

That's not Linux's fault. It's partly cause of people like you not adopting it. If more people used it it would have a much stronger chance of getting better applications. Obviously.

That's false. Deployment on Linux is nearly impossible. Issue already discussed on this blog.

Colonel Panic said...

"@ColonelPanic

//Well if evolution is shitcock as you call it, why don't you make it better? //

Maybe because, unlike your "Want fries with that?" ass, I can actually afford to purchase software that fucking works. Like Outlook 2007."

Do not brag about your money. Here is the non-free software I have:
Adobe Master Collection CS4
Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007
Loads of games
Maya 2009
Autocad 2009 LT
3DS Max 2009
Google Sketchup Pro 7
that's not all...

So it looks like you're not the only one that affords expensive software. I agree that all that software is very good. I am just saying that there are some damn good free alternatives if you open your mind up a bit. Now I'm gonna leave this blog forever because I can't be assed anymore to argue with you folk.

Anonymous said...

oh, and blender is awesome, really. but let's face the reality: the interface sucks donkey balls, especially for video editing

Anonymous said...

@ColonelPanic

//because I can't be assed anymore to argue with you folk.//

Right, your boy-toy will take care of assing you. Have fun.

Anonymous said...

"An explorer crash is equivalent to a nautilus or plasma crash"

Nautilus takes the whole desktop with it when it crashes, unless you're running nautilus --no-desktop because you're using Fluxbox or something.

And bashing desktop Linux and opening up its flaws is the only way to improve it. Not this "Windows doesn't do anything but run HALO and Linux is 300 times better" statements that Loonix Users come out with.

Anonymous said...

@ColonelPanic

//Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007//

Do you even see the irony in admitting you use these applications? What a fuckwit.

Anonymous said...

Your counter...erm...doesn't really deserve the word arguments don't seem to say anything. Writing some lame comment like BlameLiesOnOthers(TM) is just stupid. Welcome to the real, intelligent, world, little worm.

Haha. No, it's a perfect qualification of your so-called freetarded arguments, all of them debunked and beaten to death. That's why they can be so easily categorized.

You people all have the same stupid, deluded justifications because you don't have much else to say. Facing reality is not your thing.

Anonymous said...

Since Colonel Panic is new to these discussions, here are the 5 top Linux fuck ups:

1. Support tax (hidden support costs)

2. Fragmentation (incompatible Linux kernel versions and hundreds of distros)

3. Fanatical user base

4. Patents

5. Copyrights

Linux sucks!

Anonymous said...

Do not brag about your money. Here is the non-free software I have:
Adobe Master Collection CS4
Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007
Loads of games
Maya 2009
Autocad 2009 LT
3DS Max 2009
Google Sketchup Pro 7
that's not all...


That is an awful lot of expensive Windows-only software for someone who claims that Windows is only needed for playing games.

You're cracking me up pal. Please continue, you're showing great promise.

Anonymous said...

It means that security holes get fixed much more.

You mean like the 2+ years critical SSH key flaw some tard Debian maintainer introduced?

And this isn't some obscure, pedestrian utility. SSH is one of the most examined projects, and several distributions, which are supposedly staffed by competent people, use Debian as a base. If "many eyes" doesn't work here, the whole theory is pretty much debunked.

Anonymous said...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely XP is from the era of, well, about now?

You're wrong. Linux users often take XP as a comparison for their current status in Desktop development, but let's be honest:
1. Linux is best compared to Windows 3.11
2. Vista/7 is the new standard
3. Vista/7 will be replaced by a new OS before it's completely debugged and ready

Every single fucking step in the process of Desktop Linux "development" is voiced as a remarkable achievement - take a closer look and you'll see that software which is commonplace since half a decade is barely working or "under development" in Desktop Linux.

Fonts, sound, drivers, hardware video acceleration, multimedia, flash, wifi, sleep/hibernate, file system reliability, ... I don't care about your excuses and conspiracy theories, I consider it as basic as charging the battery.

Gimp competitive with Photoshop ?!? Give me a fucking break, the only thing Gimp is good at is inducing RSI.

Firefox an example of community collaboration ?!? It's a fucking trainwreck. Use Chrome for a few days and then switch back ot FF.

Linux is freedom ?!? It's fucking vendor lock-in. Everything you run in Linux can be run in Windows. A marginal amount of Win SW can be run in Linux. The irony of this all is that Wine - the tool that enables win apps in linux - is the biggest success of Linux desktop. The second irony is that only Linux apps which are ported to windows have a bright future on Linux.

LinuxIsADisgraceToEveryoneInTheSoftwareIndustry[TM]

Anonymous said...

"Now I'm gonna leave this blog forever because I can't be assed anymore to argue with you folk. - Colonel Panic

Your fucking freetard mind can't process LHB exists to expose Linux plenty of shortcomings.

And yes, you'll keep coming to take a look at LHB. You need that daily dose of truth in your miserable life.

Anonymous said...

So tell me, Colonel Panic, if you had a project to complete on a deadline, would you use GIMP instead of CS4? Blender instead of Maya 2009? Kompozer instead of Dreamweaver? Cinelerra instead of Premier Pro (or even Sony Vegas)?

Anonymous said...

Colonel Panic,

A compact disc doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to provide comprehensive driver selection. Windows is marketed toward OEMs, so this is a non-issue for everybody but system builders, who we assume would know enough to mitigate driver pains.

Therefore, for a proper "out of the box" experience, it's up to the builder to provide his own driver sets. There are numerous methods to include them, most of them revolving around NT's "slipstream" capability. There's even a project called DriverPacks which is dedicated toward the lazy. DriverPacks cram an impressive driver infrastructure into a few hundred megabytes.

I'd take pity on you if this were 2002, but anyone still installing retail or deployment copies of Windows should know better by now.

Anonymous said...

That is why Linux is a helluvalot more secure than Windows (well that and its origins too).

I think most people would agree that a student programmer utilizing methods deemed obsolete at the time knows more about operating system fundamentals than the man basically known as the "god of minicomputers".

MaraDNS said...

Obviously these were lack of driver issues.

You are such a freetard. Do you know why you're a freetard? Because you do not read what I write. You just keep parroting the same stupid freetard arguments you see on Slashdot [1] and obviously don't take the time to read our legitimate criticisms of Linux.

I used to be a freetard myself. I was running Linux as my only OS back when you were still in your diapers. I had the same freetard type of thinking you have: I refused to read criticism of Linux because I had a closed mind. I refused to see the serious problems Linux had on the desktop and couldn't open my mind to understand the problems with Linux.

Now, actually read what I said. I did not say Linux's problem was a lack of driver support. I said Linux's problem is a lack of a stable driver API/ABI. Do you even know what "API" or "ABI" mean?

OK, to show that, unlike you, I read what other people write, let me tear about your list of freetard nonsense:

But you know why there are so many updates to Linux compared with Windows? It's cause it gets updated much more often (surprise surprise) due to much more effective bug reporting than proprietary OSes

No, it gets updated more often because Linux developers are engineers and not managers; they want to constantly tweak and tweak the software with new features, instead of going through the not-so-fun SQA process and releasing a stable version of their software.

Linux developers generally just don't have the discipline to stop tweaking and adding features, and just SQA their code and release a stable version of their software.

Once upon a time, Linux kernels had "even-odd" version numbers; the even releases were stable, with the only changes being bugfixes, and the odd releases were unstable. Linus had to stop doing this because it was really hard to motivate free software developers to maintain a stable version of the kernel instead of adding features and breaking things.

It means that security holes get fixed much more. That is why Linux is a helluvalot more secure than Windows (well that and its origins too).

Do you actually believe this? This makes you look like a freetard. I will give you a clue: www.windowsupdate.com

Windows security holes do get fixed. Windows does get updated with security fixes. It is possible to run Windows securely, just as it is possible to run Linux insecurely (there are desktop Linux distributions where the only user is root)

Indeed, a given Windows release gets security fixes for far longer than most Linux distributions get security updates; the only Linux release around when Windows XP came out that gets security updates today is RHEL.

The only issue I have had with Windows security is how XP handles autorun.inf; this can be fixed with a one-click update to the registry.

And also, upgrading your kernel is NOT upgrading your OS. All you need to do once you've upgraded your kernel is to restart.

Sheesh. Do you even know what initrd is and how much it has changed over the years (because of needless tweaking from open source developers)? Do you realize how much userspace gets screwed up if you blindly update your kernel? Just try taking RHEL 3 and replacing its kernel with a current 2.6 kernel.

A kernel update requires userland to be updated too; this along with no stable driver API/ABI in Linux is why you need to install a completely new operating system to get a new driver.

There is a reason that RHEL, once it settles on a given version of the kernel, continues to use that kernel (with the occasional security update and driver backported from newer kernels) for seven years.

Seriously, as long as you don't read what I have to write, I will continue to call you a freetard. All I've seen you do is parrot the same tired freetard arguments over and over again.

[1] On Slashdot, the freetards are flaming RedHat's CEO right now for daring to think that Linux might not belong on the desktop; this despite the fact RedHat has contributed more to open source and Linux thank any other company. Do these idiots understand what "biting the hand the feeds you" means? This is as bad as when they flamed Ken Thompson for daring to think Linux was not God's gift to the world.

Anonymous said...

We usually frown on semantics here, but I have to take this one on:

"And also, upgrading your kernel is NOT upgrading your OS."

1. Traditionally, the kernel *is* the OS. Everything outside the kernel is application level.

2. Linux is way more than a kernel. It includes everything that could hypothetically operate at kernel privileges, like device drivers. "Just rebooting" is ignorant. Entire subsystems change between minor versions. Important software can and does break without warning.

Anonymous said...

[1] On Slashdot, the freetards are flaming RedHat's CEO right now for daring to think that Linux might not belong on the desktop; this despite the fact RedHat has contributed more to open source and Linux thank any other company. Do these idiots understand what "biting the hand the feeds you" means? This is as bad as when they flamed Ken Thompson for daring to think Linux was not God's gift to the world.

Thanks for the link. For obvious reasons, I don't visit slashdot much anymore ;)

In Red Hat there are quite some brilliant people. They "get it", and saw the writing on the wall a long, long time ago: Linux is not a desktop OS, let alone a consumer-oriented desktop OS.

What these lintards fail to see is that these people are not anti-Linux, or whatever. They are just sane, and not Deluded.

Anonymous said...

Firefox an example of community collaboration ?!?

It really isn't, though this is a popular myth. While I'm sure individuals submit minor bugfixes, etc., the real work was done by former Netscape employees.

Freetards got a desperate Netscape to buy into their model in the late 90s. Netscape released the source for what would be Netscape 5, hoping for the magical developers to descend from heaven, but, predictably, nothing happened. So what was left of the Netscape crew after multiple rounds of cuts and retirements went back to work, essentially running things as a closed source project that happened to have a public facing CVS interface.

Colonel Panic said...

MaraDNS: I don't have the time to argue with your points about API, ABI, initrd, etc. etc. and about Linux devs' lack of discipline. here are a few counter arguments though:

It would be very stupid to, eg. install 2.6 on RHEL 3 as it would most definitely break it.

Linux IS NOT PERFECT AND I NEVER SAID IT WAS.

What I meant about the kernel updates is that, if you use a normal, constantly updated Linux distro like me (eg. Ubuntu Linux), the kernel updates will play well with all the rest of your system and very rarely manage to break it (in fact never on my system). Don't bother correcting me if I'm wrong, I'm sure I might be wrong and you don't need to tell me that.

And finally, as long as you call me a freetard, I'm not gonna give a damn thought about what you have to say. I do not like your language.

Anonymous said...

there are desktop Linux distributions where the only user is root

To preempt anyone who claims this isn't true, in OpenWRT, not only is the only user root, there isn't even functionality to add additional users. It can be done, but you need to know the ins and outs of manual account generation.

Granted, OpenWRT is billed as a router OS, but its other billing is advanced functionality familiar to larger Linux systems. As one gets deeper into using it, the need for a non-destructive user becomes obvious.

OpenWRT probably has fixed this problem, but I can't comment on it because some time back they jumped the shark and went from "Linux for consumer routers" to "yet another embedded Linux distro where you'd be better off using pfSense anyway".

Colonel Panic said...

"1. Traditionally, the kernel *is* the OS. Everything outside the kernel is application level."

Traditionally, yes. But many these days consider the OS as the whole suite of libraries, shell(s), and/or GUI(s) etc. that sit on top of the kernel.

"2. Linux is way more than a kernel. It includes everything that could hypothetically operate at kernel privileges, like device drivers. "Just rebooting" is ignorant. Entire subsystems change between minor versions. Important software can and does break without warning."

You don't say. without warning? I can think of many things that can happen without warning on Winblows. Viruii. I admit you get these on Linux but not nearly as many and they need to be root to seriously damage your system. As for deleting your personal data, that should be backed up anyway.

In Windoze, unless you've exlicitly set yourself to be unprivelaged, or in Vista the annoying UAC, anything can do anything it wants to your system. So I think if you count the flaws of Windows there are quite some. Don't you agree?

Colonel Panic said...

About the OpenWRT post: I thought this was about bashing Linux desktops. OpenWRT is a fucking router OS.

Colonel Panic said...

The one who made fun of my windows software: I get it for testing. I want to see how they work. Is that a crime? I don't actually use them for anything.

Colonel Panic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Re: "Just reboot" the Linux kernel.

Most Linux users probably aren't aware of the enormous effort dumped into glibc and gcc runtime libraries to disguise Linux's breakage. If they were they'd probably be mortified. That's why you can't just plop a new kernel down and call it a day.

And, no, it's not "just update glibc and gcc, too!" Fundamentally, you've changed systems by doing this. By very definition you're changing binary compatibility, and the amount of possible regression is astronomical. That's why mature, production systems rarely "upgrade" core interfaces, even if it seems like a really good idea.

Anonymous said...

2009-03-25
Red Hat CEO questions desktop's relevance in Linux debate
"First of all, I don't know how to make money on it," Red Hat's CEO Jim Whitehurst said. "Very few people are running a desktop that's mission-critical," so they do not want to pay the company for a desktop OS, he said.

2004-01-17
Red Hat's Havoc Pennington talks about Linux desktop [45.6MB WMV]
Part 1a
Part 1b
Part 2a
Part 2b
Slides [PDF]

Shit, it's funny how little things change in 5 years...

At least they gave up on the desktop and the Cloud is now their salvation!

Poor fuckin' freetards!

LOL

Anonymous said...

Linux IS NOT PERFECT AND I NEVER SAID IT WAS.

It doesn't have to be perfect. It would suffice if it were decent. You know, concepts such as "software platform" are pretty basic for a desktop OS, yet Linux developers are totally unable to grasp it, thinking that they can create all the software by themselves, and that recompiling said software every 6-8 months in an eternal cycle is perfectly acceptable.

But yeah, I know what you and the rest of Linux users will say: that it's not Linux fault, that Microsoft's monopoly is to blame, that stupid users that still use Windows are to blame, and so on.

Well, whatever makes you people feel better.

Colonel Panic said...

"So tell me, Colonel Panic, if you had a project to complete on a deadline, would you use GIMP instead of CS4? Blender instead of Maya 2009? Kompozer instead of Dreamweaver? Cinelerra instead of Premier Pro (or even Sony Vegas)?"

Yes I would, unless those open source programs didn't provide a certain feature that I couldn't live without.

Anonymous said...

The one who made fun of my windows software: I get it for testing. I want to see how they work. Is that a crime? I don't actually use them for anything.

And you say you've paid for it. And you only use it for testing? Out of pure curiosity?

Nah, it's not a crime. It's just awfully strange ^_^

Anonymous said...

RedHat has contributed more to open source and Linux thank any other company

Most people forget the dark ages of the mid-90s when Stallman burned out and GCC essentially became abandonware. Red Hat picked up development and carried the project forward, despite heavy opposition, and got *the* core FOSS software (what, you actually thought it was Linux?) through a rough few years. Oh yeah, Red Hat basically made glibc by themselves, too. You're welcome--that is unless you thought libc5 was the bees knees.

Anonymous said...

FreeBSD is indeed intended for desktops. Go read the fucking FreeBSD main page. It would be much better talking with people if they wouldn't pull facts out of their ass.

Anonymous said...

"The one who made fun of my windows software: I get it for testing. I want to see how they work. Is that a crime? I don't actually use them for anything."

So Colonel Panic you spend thousands of dollars on software just to try it and not use it? Or are you like that Slashtard guy who tried to pirate Photoshop CS4 and broke it, then blamed it on Windows 7 (beta's) OMG EVIL DRM?

http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/09/02/16/2259257.shtml

I guess that's why your Windows install is so fucked - using TPB versions of everything.

Anonymous said...

MaraDNS,

There is a lot of WMs that treat the desktop as one giant virtual desktop besides FVWM. Enlightenment is one of them. But I agree with most of what you said.

Anonymous said...

if you use a normal, constantly updated Linux distro like me

This is a fundamental assumption you get wrong. People don't update their systems. Microsoft's on its, what, tenth iteration or so of Windows Update, and they still can't stop the barrage of ancient worms.

But people do want to get new software and have it run on their ancient, unupdated systems. This works with Windows (and not so much with Mac). The amount of breakage that would occur updating a two years behind Linux system would be incalculable. You'd be better off starting fresh. No one wants to do that, so Linux loses.

MaraDNS said...

Most Linux users probably aren't aware of the enormous effort dumped into glibc and gcc runtime libraries to disguise Linux's breakage.

Yeah, Linux is horrible broken.

Let's look at this bit of code:

a = select(sock + 1,&rx_set,NULL,NULL,&timeout);

if(a > 0) {

len_inet = recvfrom(sock,in,255,0,(struct sockaddr *)&foo,&bar);

}

Because of Linux breakage, this bit of code is vulnerable to a denial-of-service attack; a malformed UDP packet will cause the recvfrom() call to block.

You have to add something like this to work around Linux's broken kernel:

fcntl(sock, F_SETFL, O_NONBLOCK);

here is a discussion of this broken behavior in Linux.

Anonymous said...

No Windows is a piece of shit because it's a piece of shit. It always was a piece of shit, and it will always be a piece of shit. I hate when you fuckers act like UNIX/Linux users never used Windows before. It's fucking everywhere.

Anonymous said...

@ColonelPanic

// I get it for testing. I want to see how they work. Is that a crime? //

Welcome back after your long absence from these boards.

If you seriously pay that many hundreds of dollars to just "test the software to see how it works" you're either 1.) a liar, or 2.) a fucking idiot.

Anonymous said...

There is a lot of WMs that treat the desktop as one giant virtual desktop besides FVWM. Enlightenment is one of them.

Well, ten years ago or so, E was just a FVWM customization. I doubt they have much in common now, but they do share common lineage.

Anonymous said...

"I hate when you fuckers act like UNIX/Linux users never used Windows before."

It's not that you've never used Windows, it's that you've only used it for superficial and rudimentary tasks (much like what desktop Linux is good for). There are some things that ONLY can be accomplished with Windows apps, period, so it might as well be as if you've never used Windows.

Anonymous said...

This blog owner needs to either remove anon commenting or make it ONLY anon commenting because this shit is getting ridiculous. This blog comment section is just a fuckfest of people talking out their ass and flaming. Even 4chan'ers have better manners.

Anonymous said...

@March 25, 2009 12:14 PM

I don't disagree with you, but seriously you know it's possible these days thanks to "virtualization" to run multiple operating systems at once. If I need to run Windows from within my Linux environment I do so without much issue. Alternatively if you use Windows more often and somehow like Windows-style window management you can do it in the reverse way as well.

Anonymous said...

"This blog owner needs to either remove anon commenting or make it ONLY anon commenting "

Changing Something That's Working Fine For No Fucking Reason. The Linux Way(TM).

Anonymous said...

I hate when you fuckers act like UNIX/Linux users never used Windows before.

This is largely due to purposeful deception put forth by the pro-Linux users. Bombastic claims like, "I've been Linux only for years!" are common, but when pressed, it's always revealed that there exists an "emergency" Windows partition. And, of course, this never used rainy day system always contains the latest software.

Anonymous said...

I don't think you can paint the entire Linux community with the same brush. Some people use Windows some people don't. Some believe in free software others don't.

Anonymous said...

@March 25, 2009 12:14 PM

This blog is awesome as it is. There's no reason to change at all. Everywhere else on the Internet is hyper-moderated and over-authenticated; places like this have become rare. If you want a more civil version of basically the same, try whylinuxsucks.org.

I know you're thinking the pro-Linux authenticated users are at a disadvantage (and they are), but it's their choice to do so. They want to put themselves out there publicly. Why take that away from them?

MaraDNS said...

It would be very stupid to, eg. install 2.6 on RHEL 3 as it would most definitely break it.

Well, that's what you were suggesting. Here is the discussion; bold is me, italic is you:

all my hardware fully functioned out of the box in Ubuntu. In windows, my mouse half functioned and my webcam, ethernet, sound and graphics card weren't detected.

All of that hardware will work with Windows XP; all you need to do is a couple of Google searches and install the relevant drivers.

[...]

The only version of Linux from the Windows XP era still supported today is RHEL 3. They have long since stopped making new drivers available [...] Windows XP, also from the same era, works just fine on a new computer once you install drivers.


(Minor correction: RHEL 2 will still be supported for a couple more months)


And also, upgrading your kernel is NOT upgrading your OS. All you need to do once you've upgraded your kernel is to restart


OK, looking at the context of this, I think it's pretty implicit you were advocating putting a new 2.6 kernel in a CentOS 3 system.

Updating your kernel is updating your OS.

if you use a normal, constantly updated Linux distro like me (eg. Ubuntu Linux), the kernel updates will play well with all the rest of your system and very rarely manage to break it

Yes, the kernel updates play well...for 18 months. Then Ubuntu cuts off support, you're screwed and need to update your OS.

Excuse me, I have better things to do with my time than update my OS every 18 months.

(Yes, there's the LTS version of Ubuntu, but, guess what: They don't add new drivers to the LTS releases, just as RedHat doesn't add new drivers to RHEL2 or RHEL3 any more).

And finally, as long as you call me a freetard, I'm not gonna give a damn thought about what you have to say. I do not like your language.

Sorry to hurt your feelings; it's just really frustrating to try and argue with someone who doesn't even take the time to read and understand my POV before parroting the same old tired arguments.

Dealing with a Linux fanatic is like dealing with a young earth creationist. Both fanatics have the same closed-minded thinking.

Anonymous said...

@March 25, 2009 12:22 PM

I find the "Linux users" who use Windows and don't believe in free software are more compatible with our mindset than with the "community's".

Regardless of our reputation, most of us aren't Microsoft shills. We've used close to everything. Check the archives for lengthy discussions on stuff like Amiga, OS/2, and LynxOS.

Unfortunately, the vocal minority, who seems very much the majority, has irrecoverably ruined matters for the even minded folk who find legitimate use for Linux--perhaps as a learning tool or constructive hobby--and feel no need to constantly evangelize

You're guilty by association. You shouldn't be mad at us, you should take your disappointment out on the likes of Stallman and Raymond, the guys who engaged in organized harassment of people shopping for paid software, and the never ceasing Linux hype media and their unfulfilled promises.

Anonymous said...

Colonel Panic, nobody said that you can't use Linux for some things done on windows, whatever works with you, fine.

But there is a line drawn when someone says that Linux apps are "equivalent" to windows versions. That's like saying my Chevy Cavalier is "equivalent" to a Bentley, NOT the same quality or experience.

If you are happy using Linux as is, fine. But saying Linux is "superior" in every way, just isn't true.

Operating systems/applications are just tools, and just like the construction world, some tools have better quality then others.

Colonel Panic said...

respect to the last poster, for not including profanity.

I do NOT think that Linux is superior in every way. It is WORSE than windows in a helluvalot of ways. It is BETTER than windows in a whole very big lot of ways too, I might add. So this was just one big misunderstanding.

PS. Don't give me a car analogy. For me a car is something that gets you from A to B and nothing else. BMW == Ford, what's the difference.

PPS. I think this blog could be very constructive if there weren't so many losers on it. The commenters calling people freetards are what they call themselves, IMO.

Colonel Panic said...

Sorry, they're what they think of others as. Damn you can't edit comments here.

Anonymous said...

Colonel Panic did you compile Cinelerra from source on Ubuntu or did you use the Heroine Warrior Ubuntu binaries?

Colonel Panic said...

"Unfortunately, the vocal minority, who seems very much the majority, has irrecoverably ruined matters for the even minded folk who find legitimate use for Linux--perhaps as a learning tool or constructive hobby--and feel no need to constantly evangelize"

I totally agree. Except that IMO, for what I do, Linux can be more than just a learning tool or whatever. I can use it for alot of tasks that you could probably also do on Linux if you put your mind to it.

Colonel Panic said...

I compiled cinelerra from source.

BillGatesArsehole. said...

Boot times do matter to those of us who aren't chained to our computers. Try getting out and having a life some time, you might like it, but then you geeks are connected by umbilical cords to your computers...guess thats why you never shut them off.

Colonel Panic said...

"Boot times do matter to those of us who aren't chained to our computers. Try getting out and having a life some time, you might like it, but then you geeks are connected by umbilical cords to your computers...guess thats why you never shut them off."

Not to mention how much power your using (although I can't talk. Although I don't do things such as flying, I don't drive a car, I eat organic food etc.)

I actually do think boot time is quite a non-issue though if it's under about 2 and a half minutes. Beyond that it gets quite annoying.

Anonymous said...

Boot times do matter to those of us who aren't chained to our computers. Try getting out and having a life some time, you might like it, but then you geeks are connected by umbilical cords to your computers...guess thats why you never shut them off.

Or perhaps because we know there is this thing called "Hibernate", that allows us to power off the thing and restore its state later.

Anyway, you're missing the point too. The damn point is that it doesn't matter how fast Linux boots, because there are a hundred far more important issues to solve first that never get solved.

Anonymous said...

Linux isn't superior in every way but I am of the opinion that Linux is superior in many ways. If it weren't I wouldn't bother to use it.

Anonymous said...

It's not like there is one person writing everything. The people writing webcam drivers and the ones optimizing boot time are different people and neither can really effectively do the job of the other person.

Colonel Panic said...

totally agree with the above 2 posters.

Anonymous said...

I'm one person.. Got to love anon commenting!

Colonel Panic said...

lol i hate it

everyone should have to at least enter a name when they post

Anonymous said...

I can use it for alot of tasks that you could probably also do on Linux if you put your mind to it.

That's the rub. I could and did "put my mind to it", but after 6-7 years I had trouble answering "why" I should do this. I'd expend unreasonable effort configuring my setup only to do it again in a few months when stuff broke. I was in school at the time so I didn't need to get any "real work" done, and I still missed functionality that was in place on other systems years prior.

Once I got a career I never looked back. The fulfillment I got from "conquering Linux" I received from conquering more meaningful projects. Linux became an obstacle to success because I wanted to use computers to get work done, not to work on computers.

Anonymous said...

To very first comment. You are not better than Linux user, who seeks boot time, you overrate it. You missed the point of post

Anonymous said...

The people writing webcam drivers and the ones optimizing boot time are different people and neither can really effectively do the job of the other person.

Resources are limited; FOSS is not a magical solution for this. The same project management challenges still apply. Fact is, there's a severely limited supply of people who get things done in the world. Most of these people in the Linux realm are already on salary. Diverting their work carries an opportunity cost.

Anonymous said...

I found this super handy video detailing how to install Cinelerra!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcBxE6m7x8w

Anonymous said...

I found this super handy video detailing how to install Cinelerra!

I never realized Linux desktop capturing software was so weak. That video hurts my eyes.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, been there on the Cinelerra compile. There's no reason to go through all that trouble for the limited functionality, bizarre interface and constant crashes of Cinelerra when you can buy something like Sony Vegas Movie Studio off of Newegg and have an amazing interface, stability, plenty of rendering options, dozens of effects, excellent titler, etc. for $89. I mean seriously.

Colonel Panic said...

"Yeah, been there on the Cinelerra compile. There's no reason to go through all that trouble for the limited functionality, bizarre interface and constant crashes of Cinelerra when you can buy something like Sony Vegas Movie Studio off of Newegg and have an amazing interface, stability, plenty of rendering options, dozens of effects, excellent titler, etc. for $89. I mean seriously."

Sounds like you're talking about Cinelerra when you say all that!

PS. what trouble?

Anonymous said...

You know, this is too easy. I'm getting bored, I was able to take down Colonal Retard in like 30 seconds, by merely showing the application he was bragging about.

I would rather use WMM for video editing, and its like the... paint.exe of the video world...

Groan. In the two years since Ive looked at linux seriously, it has gotten worse and farther behind than I expected.

However in the spirit of being open minded, I am watching all three parts of this training video... OMG he is animating text now...

This is actually probably counter productive, I am searing into my mind that I don't ever want to use linux again. LOL.

Hey did you guys see that cutting edge file dialog?

Anonymous said...

There's no video editing in that YouTube clip. All he does is demonstrate how Cinelerra can be used like any other conversion software with the exception that it outputs to a file format from the dark ages.

Anonymous said...

Oh, I didn't notice it was a multi part series. I don't know if my eyes can take any more.

Colonel Panic said...

"You know, this is too easy. I'm getting bored, I was able to take down Colonal Retard in like 30 seconds, by merely showing the application he was bragging about.

I would rather use WMM for video editing, and its like the... paint.exe of the video world...

Groan. In the two years since Ive looked at linux seriously, it has gotten worse and farther behind than I expected.

However in the spirit of being open minded, I am watching all three parts of this training video... OMG he is animating text now...

This is actually probably counter productive, I am searing into my mind that I don't ever want to use linux again. LOL.

Hey did you guys see that cutting edge file dialog?"

Well thanks for sharing your opinion, but it wasn't really needed and it wasn't really constructive now was it?

Whereas 'bragging' (no NOT bragging, I was just TELLING PEOPLE) about programs IS constructive. So crawl back to your hole please and never come back.

Colonel Panic said...

"I never realized Linux desktop capturing software was so weak. That video hurts my eyes."

It is. Linux desktop capturing software sucks.

Anonymous said...

amazing interface, stability, plenty of rendering options, dozens of effects, excellent titler, etc. for $89.

Vegas is the best kept secret in the video editing realm. It doesn't have as much prepackaged functionality of the more familiar (and more expensive) software, but it contains all the necessary elements for a competent editor to fill the gaps in a cost effective manner. Vegas is priced at the "vacation memories" level but is really an Audition Junior.

Colonel Panic said...

"If you seriously pay that many hundreds of dollars to just "test the software to see how it works" you're either 1.) a liar, or 2.) a fucking idiot."

Well you'll never know the answer will you. But I find it incredibly unlikely that you care. So why did you post?

Colonel Panic said...

PS you can have a screenshot so you know I'm not lying

Anonymous said...

Cinelerra is yet another atrociously named FOSS project. Every few months I'm actually interested in its progress and I can never remember its name, and if I have a vague recollection of its pronunciation, I can never spell it. I usually end up executing several searches before settling on something like "cinderella video editor linux" and going to page 4 or something because the actual Cinderella dominates the search.

Colonel Panic said...

Well there mustn't be many criticisms available then! great!

Anonymous said...

"Sounds like you're talking about Cinelerra when you say all that!"

You surely are delusional. Cinelerra has about 25 total effects, of which "Brightness & Contrast" is included. Sony Vegas has about 30 effects *categories* with about 8 different effects in each category. Cinelerra has only 6 transitions. Sony Vegas has 23 transition *categories* with about 5 or 6 different transitions in each one. I'll stop here.

"PS. what trouble?"

If you compiled Cinelerra on Ubuntu, then you should know that Ubuntu doesn't contain any of the packages necessary to compile it. Quite a bit of trouble to hunt them all down from the repository to compile a piece of shit.

Anonymous said...

Colonel Panic,

Just wanted to welcome you to the site, and again, constructive criticism instead of name calling (from both sides) is always welcome. We want you to show your side of the story, without succumbing or resorting to the usual drama that happens on both sides of the fence. So welcome!

Again, many of us here agree, in order for a true alternative to Windows products arrive, there needs to be a swift kick in the Linux desktop evolution.

We all would like to see a true alternative to windows desktop/server, but at the same time agree to disagree.

I certainly don't dismiss Linux at all, in fact for some instances, it's perfectly fine. However, and many of us agree, it could be even better than it is now, and it SHOULD be better. Better may not always mean technical, better may mean consolidation to single base distro, single LSB, single depository. Better may mean better documentation, and well thought out API's. Better may mean acknowledging shortcomings, and working actively to fix them, instead of passing the buck or making excuses.

What we hate to see, is anyone claiming that Linux is the ONLY worthy desktop to use, or is fine just "as is", just as we can't say Windows server is the ONLY server to use, or it's the ONLY thing to use. There are a lot of different scenarios, and Linux may work for some people/situations, but clearly not for many others.

Exchange/Windows server for example, they were created not of spite for Linux, but because of an immediate business need to manage medium and large organizations. Outlook/exchange is one of the best combos out there. In order to appreciate it, you have to be using it in a deadline corporate results driven environment.

Anonymous said...

Jesus, it takes this guy two minutes to pick a file to edit. Ever hear of preparation?

Holy crap that interface is strange. All the components blend together. It's a little better once stuff is loaded.

The text input method is archaic. It's like the GIMP programmers put this together.

Colonel Panic said...

Totally agree with the poster *below* the one dissing cinelerra.

If you want effects design them yourself. If you were a real artist you'd know how.

If you want cheap ass built-in effects, use iMovie or WMM.
Now STOP with this arguing cause it ain't gonna get no one nowhere.

Colonel Panic said...

Also I did compile cinelerra on Ubuntu and all I had to do was read the error messages and install the correct libraries. No trouble at all just search for them on synaptic.

Or maybe I'm more computer literate (no offence).

Anonymous said...

wots ol dis tok aboot linux ? Aye vbeen youzing it 4 yerz & iz da bom. Aye stopt youzing windos coz da spelcheckas sux.

Colonel Panic said...

Whoever thinks text mode is archaic doesn't really know, technically, how computers work.

Basically the most robust and advanced way of accessing a computer is through text mode.

Colonel Panic said...

I needed that, anony!

Anonymous said...

Colonel Panic,

It doesn't have to do with "computer literacy", it's the unwillingness to manually perform tasks that we've created computers to do. Examining errors and pulling dependencies should be fully automatic, especially in Linux where all software is centrally managed.

Anonymous said...

"Or maybe I'm more computer literate (no offence)"

Yes, wasting time checking boxes on Synaptic to compile a dinosaur makes you more computer literate than someone else, much like using incomplete software that other people wrote for free makes you smarter.

Anonymous said...

Text mode is archaic for rudimentary tasks like installing and configuring software, which is the norm in Linux world. While there's always that counter argument that text mode isn't strictly needed anymore in casual usage, I don't see it. I figure the people I'm arguing against either don't spend much time in Linux or don't do much with computers, period. I have difficulty getting work done in Linux without heading to the command line. Again, this is something I can do, but I don't see why I should.

Finally, the Linux command line itself is archaic. GNU stopped innovating in the 80s and all that remains are cryptic commands designed around 70s teletype devices most people never knew existed. Bash scripting is like watching silent movies compared to PowerShell or AppleScript.

Anonymous said...

"If you want effects design them yourself. If you were a real artist you'd know how."

Yeah, that's why no one buys industry standard third-party effects from companies like Boris or NewBlue. Because all real video editors are out there coding their own effects instead of getting the job done. You stupid fucking freetard fantasy fucker.

Anonymous said...

You stupid fucking freetard fantasy fucker.

This is why I come here. Hilarious.

Anonymous said...

From the Slashdot thread above:

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1175293&cid=27334411

This guy's arguing earnestly that everyone who wants video playback in Linux has no other option than to emigrate.

Anonymous said...

Colonel Retard,

See, you are a liar;) Just like all the rest. First you claim you were not bragging, and there you go you start bragging... about something you don't have.

Never mind the codec pack for unbuntu costs more than Vegas;)

But none the less, I encourage everyone who has any doubt about the.... ahhhem.... quality?.?.?. of cinelerra to go and watch the howto video;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcBxE6m7x8w

Thats the binary install;)

Signed,
You know exactly who I am from my greeting;)

P.S. Have fun typing your ken burns effect numbers in by hand!

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