Monday, May 10, 2010

Wut

I was just taking a look at S-man's announcement for Ubuntu Unity and Light versions. Most of it is blah, except for this tidbit:

... The dual-boot, web-focused use case is sufficiently different from general-purpose desktop usage to warrant a fresh look at the way the desktop is configured. We spent quite a bit of time analyzing screenshots of a couple of hundred different desktop configurations from the current Ubuntu and Kubuntu user base, to see what people used most. We also identified the things that are NOT needed in lightweight dual-boot instant-on offerings...


Wut. Ok. Let me learn you something. I've seen lots of Linux screenshots in my time. If you were actually optimizing for the freetard, basically what you'd have is a desktop with two semi-transparent terminals. One tailing a syslog, and another showing an irc session. Oh and like some pager with a bazillion virtual desktops that are totally useless. Oh, and don't forget the scantily-clad, objectified female as the wallpaper image.

As for the rest of the article? OMG, You put a fucking dock on the side. In OSX and Win7, doing the same thing takes like 3 seconds. Do you really need to write a whole giant announcement about it?

Oh and I like the two sections at the end, about "Relationship to Gnome Shell" and "Relationship to KDE". Even the S-man has figured out that you can't just go "innovate" in the OSS community without shouting out to everyone. Because we don't want to piss off the ten people who care about Gnome Shell or KDE. Fuck. Could you imagine an Apple announcement saying something like "Relationship to Windows"?

2743 flames:

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Anonymous said...

wow, so fast.

LH is in frenzy mode.

Anonymous said...

"Wut"

Tone down the internet speak.

TM Repository said...

Tone down the internet speak.

Wut you say?

Anonymous said...

How are you gentlemen

Anonymous said...

A few days ago I overheard some guy trying to help a woman with her computer. She wanted to change the order the operating systems were listed on her multi-boot system. The guy replied "You can't have more than one OS on your computer." He was a Linux user.

Anonymous said...

Linux is still a god, and you just mere mortals.

Anonymous said...

LOL OOBOOTOO!

This post is far better then the last. Thanks LH!

Anonymous said...

Come ooon ... you had much better rants in the past. This is not really a rant. Its more like a bad try of beeing a rant.

Go back into your basement and train your rant-skills.

You don't really get what its about in your last posts ... so dig deeper the next time.

TM Repository said...

A few days ago I overheard some guy trying to help a woman with her computer. She wanted to change the order the operating systems were listed on her multi-boot system. The guy replied "You can't have more than one OS on your computer." He was a Linux user.

Liar. Linux users don't speak to women since there are none in their basements (except when their mom comes down to give them fresh laundry and ask how the job search is going).

Anonymous said...

Go back into your basement and train your rant-skills.

Fail Troll fails at using the basement reference. It is where you eat your hot pockets and rage against the world via your DSL.

Anonymous said...

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100510-713162.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines

Android surpasses iPhone marketshare.

YearOfTheLinuxPhone(tm)

Anonymous said...

Rap music has criminalized most of the black underclass. They are taught from an early age that it is the "cool" thing to do to be a criminal and rape white
women. We should purge rap music from the world to keep blacks from destroying themselves and us.

Anonymous said...

YearOfThePropietaryLinuxPhone(TM)

TM Repository said...

Rap music has criminalized most of the black underclass. They are taught from an early age that it is the "cool" thing to do to be a criminal and rape white women. We should purge rap music from the world to keep blacks from destroying themselves and us.

Way to copy this from the previous post verbatim. Aren't you the most outrageous inflammatory troll. Hear that guys? He mentioned black people, get your backs up!

Weak.

Anonymous said...

YearOfThePropietaryLinuxPhone(TM)

AndroidIsOpenSource(tm)

Anonymous said...

Apple should not be surprised. When you attempt to lock in users and developers, these things happen.

TM Repository said...

YearOfThePropietaryLinuxPhone(TM)

AndroidIsOpenSource(tm)


Isn't it a fork that goes against the spirit of contributing, according to GregKH? Dispite Google releasing their changes for any kernel developer to integrate.

Anonymous said...

ForkIsOnlyForkIfDebianDoesIt(tm)

Anonymous said...

Isn't it a fork that goes against the spirit of contributing, according to GregKH? Dispite Google releasing their changes for any kernel developer to integrate.

Maybe, but that doesn't not make it proprietary.

Anonymous said...

To repeat my question from the previous thead:


had/has the linux-hate culture some impact on the linux world?

TM Repository said...

Maybe, but that doesn't not make it proprietary.

Might as well be. The kernel team doesn't want to integrate it and claim Google should do it. At this point, Google basically owns it. They also refuse to allow forks of Android to be used on Android phones.

Sure, you can still look at the source and change it, you just can't actually use it for anything. Not proprietary at all.

TM Repository said...

had/has the linux-hate culture some impact on the linux world?

Good question. If the Linux hate has no impact, like the freetards would like us to believe, then why do they spend so much time here trying to counter argue?

The Queefer clones will turn about face and say "haw haw, we're just making you puppets dance". Hoping we'll forget the prior pages of arguments they presented before spiraling into pure trolling.

Anonymous said...

Android is not proprietary software.

Anonymous said...

And do you think we are here to make an impact? Fuck that.

How many times I have to say this?

I just hate Linux.

Anonymous said...

Most of us are only here to make you haters flip your shit. Anyone who actually expects you to listen to rational arguments about the necessity of software freedom is a fucktard.

Anonymous said...

Yeah I gave up with rational arguments here, I just pure 100% troll.

carmen said...

suck it up and rewrite your compilers to generate Dalvik bytecodes. in about 15 years we can port all of debian to work inside the native-wrapper sandbox!

that whole thing where you can connect anything to anything with DBUS, and run any GUI toolkit app on X? you dont needt it. QUASI-JAVA man, its the future!!

Anonymous said...

It is our job to keep the hatetards distracted with our trolling to keep them from becoming an actual threat to freedom.

Anonymous said...

the obvious result of throwing away decades of POSIX/linuxy threading, IPC, and cooperative diversity with a sesqui-ennial fence toss of random java-y lameness is world takeover.

Steve is shaking in his boots.

Canonical who?

Anonymous said...

YearOfTheWhoGivesAShitBecauseNoOneWantsToPay$100PerMonthForPissPoorServicePhone(TM)

TM Repository said...

It is our job to keep the hatetards distracted with our trolling to keep them from becoming an actual threat to freedom.

Good call. The freetards are doing just fine at stifling freedom without us.

TM Repository said...

Yeah I gave up with rational arguments here, I just pure 100% troll.

We know. We gladly feed the trolls for your unintentional comedy.

Anonymous said...

For the record, the Android is outselling the iPhone in the US ONLY because the iPhone is tied to AT&T which has spotty 3g service compared to Verizon.

Are you going to pay $700 for a smartphone only to be stuck at 56k download speeds for your music and apps?

Of course not.

So stop pretending that Android is about Linux when no one cares about the damn kernel it is built around.

Anonymous said...

S-man spent roughly $20,000,000.00 for an eight day stay in space, critical thinking obviously isn't his strong suit. Maybe you should cut him some slack before you rag on him for "analyzing screen shots."

Anonymous said...

"For the record, the Android is outselling the iPhone in the US ONLY because the iPhone is tied to AT&T which has spotty 3g service compared to Verizon."

That and Jobs is getting delusions of grandeur with the expectations that developers aren't getting scared of his strong arming tactics. That and he's pretty much pissed off every possible partner that have wanted to be a part of the whole i-[insert-gay-device-name-here].

Anonymous said...

Apple is for fags. That's why none of us linux users talk about them. Linux aims to dominate the straight population

Anonymous said...

"Linux aims to dominate the straight population"

Liar!

TM Repository said...

Apple is for fags. That's why none of us linux users talk about them. Linux aims to dominate the straight population

Apple is for people who don't want to have to explain what their computer is to everyone they meet.

Anonymous said...

@May 10, 2010 11:48 AM

All your base ... etc.

2 pts.

Enis Penis & The 4 Skins said...

"Apple is for people who don't want to have to explain what their computer is to everyone they meet."

No, Apple is for people who aren't gay but want to appear to have gay-like fashion sense; but also to demonstrate a monetary superiority over others by purchasing overpriced technology that offers less functionality.

Anonymous said...

No, Apple is for people who are all out gay.

Anonymous said...

"No, Apple is for people who are all out gay."

Are you calling my dad a homosexual?

TM Repository said...

No, Apple is for people who aren't gay but want to appear to have gay-like fashion sense; but also to demonstrate a monetary superiority over others by purchasing overpriced technology that offers less functionality.

Are you angry because you're poor?

TM Repository said...

If there was ever a reason to end poverty, it would be to shut up the freetards. Maybe if they could actually afford decent computers and software, they wouldn't be such dicks about having to make due with the garbage they own.

Anonymous said...

Cool story, bro!

Captcha: grabb -- what this post did to my attention!

Anonymous said...

He's a nigger so he can't afford a Mac.

Anonymous said...


has the linux-hate culture some impact on the linux world?


Probably. The fantatics are aware that there are counter-blogs that will call bullshit on them. Even a die-hard loon doesn't want to be made into a total ass on some random blog. They're a lot more careful with their propaganda these days.

Anonymous said...

UseChroot(TM) distribution... newest screenshot:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4848/latestq.png

Now chroot apps can be installed with Synaptic.

Anonymous said...

Piestar RIP. Guess queefer DoSed it with his leet skillz.

Anonymous said...

NM. Back now.

captcha: smotal. Smote mortal.

TM Repository said...

Now chroot apps can be installed with Synaptic.

Great, now show me Flash CS4 running flawlessly in Ubuntu.

Anonymous said...

apple promotes separatism and lockin, 3rd party developers are working through an asshole the size of a pin head, however the element of throat ramming isn't as much when it comes to linux, sure apple has a separate area in alot of department stores for their products, but the deal with constant propaganda, ideological views on the internet regarding free software, rms etc is unbelievable

Anonymous said...

Great, now show me Flash CS4 running flawlessly in Ubuntu.

Sure... lend me $699.

BTW, Isn't CS5 out now?

TM Repository said...

Sure... lend me $699.

There's a 30 day demo.

BTW, Isn't CS5 out now?

Yes but we don't just upgrade without a reason, especially mid-season at the studio I work for.

TM Repository said...

apple promotes separatism and lockin, 3rd party developers are working through an asshole the size of a pin head, however the element of throat ramming isn't as much when it comes to linux

It's pretty sad that even with all the bullshit and hoops Apple makes developers jump through, they'd still rather make apps for the Mac or iPhone then try to target Linux.

Freetards need to really look hard at this scenario. Hell, developers would rather target all the other walled gardens like the Wii, 360 and PS3 than try to make games for Linux.

JoeMonco said...

Now chroot apps can be installed with Synaptic.

Look, world - I have finally fixed that damned broken ABI in Ubuntu, kind of.

JoeMonco said...

Freetards need to really look hard at this scenario. Hell, developers would rather target all the other walled gardens like the Wii, 360 and PS3 than try to make games for Linux.

But, but... I can now run Synaptic with chroot! Problem solved, right?

TM Repository said...

But, but... I can now run Synaptic with chroot! Problem solved, right?

The problem was solved 15 years ago in the form of Windows and, at the time, MacOS. Hell, even OS/2 and AmigaOS had it right.

Anonymous said...

developers would rather target all the other walled gardens like the Wii, 360 and PS3 than try to make games for Linux.

Paradox of choice. To be fair, freetards can't take all the blame since it is a progressive and somewhat unintuitive idea that affects all decision making. However, this concept is clearly intuitive to Apple, who, apart from that regrettable stint in the 90s, has "gotten it" at all times. Almost paradoxically, at least given the unending criticism, Microsoft is actually the one who offers the most meaningful choices, which is a big part of how they've gotten to where they have.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of video games

US
gamers spent $25.3 billion last year


Man, if only VideoGameHaterGuy had a Commodore 64 back in the day.....

Anonymous said...

The problem was solved 15 years ago in the form of Windows and, at the time, MacOS. Hell, even OS/2 and AmigaOS had it right.

Fuck, Atari 8 bit and DOS got it right. I'm not even kidding. Both have an infinitely better lasting legacies than Linux. Linux has nothing to compare with the innovative POKEY chip or DOS' legendary game lineup.

Anonymous said...

Look at this freetard F$F shill:

Ubuntu
beats Vista in Features No comparison needed


"There is no comparison between the two OSs. Vista looks as outdated as a dinosaur. Also, I feel that Vista as an OS offers limited number of features/packages, where as Ubuntu offers a full blown 360 degree desktop experience. Security, stability and consistently fast performance can be experienced in Ubuntu"

WOW. Someebody pissed in this guys koolaid.

Anonymous said...

@May 10, 2010 10:33 PM:

One just loves that they're always making comparisons with Vista. In an article released in May, 2010.

TM Repository said...

US
gamers spent $25.3 billion last year

Man, if only VideoGameHaterGuy had a Commodore 64 back in the day


I'd like to hear GameHater explain how all of them aren't shooting up schools. Maybe he believes that only a handful of sociopaths account for that revenue?

TM Repository said...

One just loves that they're always making comparisons with Vista. In an article released in May, 2010.

Don't worry, I'm sure they're comparing a 2 year old copy of Ubuntu, right?

Anonymous said...

@May 10, 2010 10:39 PM

In a way, it's a step "up", they used to compare today's Ubuntu with XP, but even zealots know that horse has been beaten to death WAY too much.

Anonymous said...

Gaming was a big reason why Commodore 64 was a hit back in the day. It was the first "pc" you could download warez and store on your tape drive.

That and Epyx fast load game rips :)

Anonymous said...

I dunno if it was just me, but did u guys used to sniff the heck outta the Commodore 64 PC and the new plastic "smell"?

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JoeMonco said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JoeMonco said...

I'd like to hear GameHater explain how all of them aren't shooting up schools. Maybe he believes that only a handful of sociopaths account for that revenue?

I still remember some time ago I had this strange urge to jump onto people's heads and tell others that the princess was in another castle. How weird...

Anonymous said...

"Are you angry because you're poor?"

Nice trick question but I'm neither angry, nor am I poor. I am just not one to waste money on less features when I could use the money in a much better way ... Like using it to pay your mom for sex so she can feed her crack habit.

JoeMonco said...

I am just not one to waste money on less features

Instead, I just use an OS that comes with absolutely no useful features. Like Linux, for example.

Anonymous said...

Windows 95 would still beat Ubuntu TODAY. It had decent hardware support, commercial apps, and ease of use, all of them missing in Ubuntu. Truth hurts... if you're a freetard.

Azathoth said...

UseChroot(TM) distribution... newest screenshot:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4848/latestq.png

Now chroot apps can be installed with Synaptic.


You mean i can know install applications? Awesome and very impressive indeed! I ccan't wait to install Firefox and GIMP!

Anonymous said...

Nice trick question but I'm neither angry, nor am I poor. I am just not one to waste money on less features when I could use the money in a much better way ... Like using it to pay your mom for sex so she can feed her crack habit.

You are definitely a virgin, here is a suggestion, go buy a porn magazine with that money instead and wank to one of the nicked chicks, wank as fast as Ubuntu starts up. For you, money well spent while the rest of us pay for software.

Dr Loser said...

More Fun With Richard:

The Free World will increasingly need to reject computers designed to be controlled by Hollywood, and use computers which were not designed to restrict their users. But these are unusual computers, and that is a problem for people who want to install a free operating system on a machine that was not chosen with freedom in mind. They find that the devices in the machine won't run without proprietary software. Often this is because Hollywood has demanded it.

This problem contributes to the popularity of nonfree GNU/Linux distros that include the nonfree drivers and firmware for those machines, distros that weaken our community by corrupting many of its members.

The Hollywood movie companies base their arguments on a false premise: that they deserve to be able to profit. Since they have attacked our freedom, what they deserve is to lose everything and cease to exist.

Think of this, next time someone suggests you pay to watch a Hollywood movie. It's feeding your enemies. If your children are going to watch, it is bad for them too.


I love the idea that "Hollywood" is intent on corrupting and weakening FOSS by allowing only those GNU/Linux distros that include workable firmware (don't forget -- FreeAsInSpeech(TM) not FreeAsInBeer(TM)). I'm sure that this evil conspiracy doesn't have anything better to do, like sell movies or make a profit or anything. (Liked the "suffer little children" signoff, too...)

Anonymous said...

Hm, just visited sourceforge, its been a while, but how comes this is the 3rd most downloaded application in the category games? I really think the kids are rather starting a Android startup nowadays than a sf project.

Anonymous said...

Diagnoses for rms (I'm not a psychiatrist, but I copy pasted this from wikipedia, this makes me an expert, no?)

Narcissistic personality disorder

...

fanatic type - including paranoid features. A severely narcissistically wounded individual, usually with major paranoid tendencies who holds onto an illusion of omnipotence. These people are fighting the reality of their insignificance and lost value and are trying to re-establish their self-esteem through grandiose fantasies and self-reinforcement. When unable to gain recognition of support from others, they take on the role of a heroic or worshipped person with a grandiose mission.

Anonymous said...

Video games cause cancer.

Anonymous said...

Ubuntu 10.10 UDS kickoff video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_75rGr5vENs

Anonymous said...

Ubuntu 10.10 UDS kickoff video

Like Linux_Victim said, it's utterly impossible for these people to promote their products without taking cheap, Photoshopped shots at Microsoft/Ballmer.

If you're wondering why the "video" (read: weak slide show) sucks so much, it's apparently because the entire thing was done with FOSS tools.

Anonymous said...

@ May 11, 2010 7:20 AM

Thanks for the godly video.

LONG LIVE LINUX!

Anonymous said...

Windows 7 theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91kdwxFsthI

Anonymous said...

Pretty ironic that the freetards are denigrating communism now as an argument tactic.

Anonymous said...

Communism takes from people the rewards of their hard work. Tell me that's not evil.

Anonymous said...

Linux's theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQbCC8S-ErE

Anonymous said...

Linux's response to the Linux Haters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSJN3WWR3E

Anonymous said...

Linux's response to the fact that he is now the #1 smartphone OS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xvcXkKzd7Y

Anonymous said...

Hanna Montana Linux's Theme Song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M11SvDtPBhA

Anonymous said...

Errr, this is the actual theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENYsanXR0pQ

Dr Loser said...

@May 11, 2010 8:11 AM

Communism takes from people the rewards of their hard work. Tell me that's not evil.

No, that's just a pathetically ignorant and irrelevant comment. What "people?" What "rewards?" What "work?" And how would you define "hard" work?

Evil? Ask the Pope, because the hand ain't listening.

Now: the Linux Desktop. It's too feeble to be evil. The LY Movement is slightly psychotic, to be sure ... but not evil. Just a bunch of self-harming morons. Which, like communism, is fine -- as long as they don't infect the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

The Hollywood movie companies base their arguments on a false premise: that they deserve to be able to profit. Since they have attacked our freedom, what they deserve is to lose everything and cease to exist.

So only RM$ and the F$F can profit? The mind boggles.

Has someone bothered to tell him that Hollywood is the only reason his freeware replaced Irix?

TM Repository said...

Nice trick question but I'm neither angry, nor am I poor. I am just not one to waste money on less features when I could use the money in a much better way ... Like using it to pay your mom for sex so she can feed her crack habit.

So what you're saying is you buy computers like whores buy crack? This isn't convincing me you aren't poor. Wait, sorry, I mean "on a budget". That's how poor people say it, right?

Anonymous said...

Now: the Linux Desktop. It's too feeble to be evil. The LY Movement is slightly psychotic, to be sure ... but not evil.

The people that have received death threats for criticizing it would say otherwise.

Just a bunch of self-harming morons. Which, like communism, is fine -- as long as they don't infect the rest of us.

That would require democracy, something of which the GNU and F$F organizations don't practice.

Anonymous said...

@ May 11, 2010 10:46 AM

This isn't convincing me you aren't poor. Wait, sorry, I mean "on a budget". That's how poor people say it, right?

Nice troll it was spoken like a true elitist jackass. Are you sure you aren't a member of the linux youth?

TM Repository said...

The Hollywood movie companies base their arguments on a false premise: that they deserve to be able to profit. Since they have attacked our freedom, what they deserve is to lose everything and cease to exist.

Aren't you the same guy who said he didn't like movies anyway? If that's the case, then why do you care if they exist or not?

Once again, you just resent people with money because you have none. I'm sure the same thing applies to relationships for you as well. I'll bet you resent all those guys who have a wife or a girlfriend and rant about how we should all be cloned instead.

That way, you don't feel like such a pathetic loser for not being able to achieve what billions have through the ages. Get a job so you can actually feel a sense of struggle and accomplishment for a change.

TM Repository said...

Nice troll it was spoken like a true elitist jackass. Are you sure you aren't a member of the linux youth?

Most of the LY are broke and too proud to get a job. They think they're brilliant IT admins and that anything else is below them. Meanwhile, they wallow in self-imposed poverty so they have a real need for "free" software.

It's good to see them freeloading off those of us who actually have contributed to worthwhile open source projects with our hard-earned dollars and time.

Anonymous said...


The Hollywood movie companies base their arguments on a false premise: that they deserve to be able to profit.


Why doesn't this guy just cut the bullshit and declare himself an anti-capitalist?

Anonymous said...

Most of the LY are broke and too proud to get a job. They think they're brilliant IT admins and that anything else is below them. Meanwhile, they wallow in self-imposed poverty so they have a real need for "free" software.

I don't know how it is in Canada but in the U.S. unemployment is still hovering near 10% with almost no one hiring long term. So this argument of yours doesn't mesh with reality.

It's good to see them freeloading off those of us who actually have contributed to worthwhile open source projects with our hard-earned dollars and time.

The fact is you are taking an attitude towards the unemployed that is very similar to those ignorant assholes from storm front.

You are better than that. Hell even Dr. Loser is better than that.

Jake T said...

Oh, man, this blog is going downhill. It used to be that I could only barely read it w/o getting angry.

And this time around, I almost agreed with everything, then got bored reading the comments b/c it was so nonsensical and un-angry.

Times they are a-changin'

Anonymous said...

FUCK YOUR FACE

Linux Is The Max!!!

Your just to stupid to understand

BTW your old rants are better!

TM Repository said...

I don't know how it is in Canada but in the U.S. unemployment is still hovering near 10% with almost no one hiring long term. So this argument of yours doesn't mesh with reality.

Yeah, well there's plenty of money in the US military, so go enlist.

The fact is you are taking an attitude towards the unemployed that is very similar to those ignorant assholes from storm front.

I'm taking that attitude not because I dislike poor people, but because the LY will use any excuse they can, other than admit they just don't have the money to afford a cut of Windows, Photoshop or a 360. They claim Linux makes them smart, they're free from tyranny, that it's the start of a communist new world order, etc. Anything to avoid admitting they just can't afford it.

Maybe it's because their family isn't well off, or maybe they're just too lazy to get a job. Either way, rather than accepting this reality and dealing with it, they blame people who actually have jobs for their shortcomings.

Yes, I'm being intentionally insensitive to cast a light on something the freetard isn't man enough to admit.

TM Repository said...

Besides, the whole argument that macs are for rich people is moot since several friends who make a good deal less than I do own them.

How did they manage to scrounge up the cash? They worked their job and cooked their own meals rather than eating out.

Anonymous said...

Has someone bothered to tell him that Hollywood is the only reason his freeware replaced Irix?

Naw, SGI fucked up (with the premature anouncement of, and delayed delivery of switching to Itanium), warding their customers away from buying new systems, thus needing to cut corners and ultimately scrapping the vastly superior IRIX as a result, is what caused Linux to replace IRIX.

The Hollywood movie companies base their arguments on a false premise: that they deserve to be able to profit. Since they have attacked our freedom, what they deserve is to lose everything and cease to exist.

And free software goes out of its way to make profiting from software as difficult as possible based on the false premise - that nobody should be making profit.

Furthermore, free software advocates' focus on destroying proprietary competitors is a direct attack on our freedom to choose, and therefore, by their own reasoning, free software should cease to exist.

Anonymous said...

Since I got my first job years ago I started buying not just all my software, but my music and my movies every single time. Yes, I still download stuff to try it out to see if it's worth the money. Some times I download a lot of stuff, maybe more than some of my friends that, unfortunately, have no job at the moment (economic crisis, etc).

Still, if I find something I like I try every single time to pay for it and support the guys who did it in the first place.

I don't have that much money. I'm taking as many jobs as I can find. At the same time I'm attending university, and right now I'm moving to a new home.

TM Repository said...

I don't have that much money. I'm taking as many jobs as I can find. At the same time I'm attending university, and right now I'm moving to a new home.

That commendable. The difference between you and the freeloading LY is that you don't expect things to just be handed to you. You're being proactive, they're just wallowing in their own abject failure; deeming it a perfectly acceptable to live off the backs of others.

It wouldn't matter if they were living in a capitalist, socialist or communist economy, they'd still be doing the same thing; sitting indoors all day at their computer, contributing nothing but angst.

A different economic model in their new world order wouldn't suddenly make them want to become garbage men or brick layers, for example. They just want the world to mold itself to the one they've created in their bubble.

Anonymous said...

TM Repository man probably makes $10.50/hr in his shitty "studio" job getting people coffee. That is if he is even employed.

Anonymous said...

I got to know a lot of freetards in academia (this is my fourth year in university). Some of them were just your typical rebel kid fighting the man and listening to two or three obscure metal bands. Their life is actually very easy: rich families, no girlfriends, a bunch of D&D buddies as friends, and nothing else to do all day.

I remember the mornings before the lessons, I always got there early. It was a rather nice and peaceful place in the early morning, void of distractions but quiet enough to work. Some of those freetards would then come and sit in the table near mine, and start talking about their latest adventures in Linux land, or just spin their cubes to impress the girl at the vending machine. They would usually see what I was doing and be all like "OMG M$ TEH SUX0RZ VI$UAL $TUDIO IS TEH EBIL!!1".

Now that I know how that girl felt like, I spend all my time at the vending machines drinking coffee. I just stopped working during the spare time at university. These guys are a complete waste for the society. They have the money to do so much, but choose to do nothing instead. And in the process they also bother other people like me who try to get a decent education and their job done in the spare time.

I envy rich people, I really do. But that's just one more reason to work harder.

Anonymous said...

You won't get rich from learning Microsoft technologies. You'll just make Bill Gates richer. All recent successful technology companies (Twitter, Digg, Facebook, Google, etc.) built their company on top of FOSS software, ironically.

Anonymous said...

You keep up with your "Visual Studio" bullshit, and all you will end up with is a shitty job in some unknown consulting company working in a division composed almost entirely by H1-Bs who can't program or speak English, and build extremely boring LoB apps all day for the rest of your life, while gaining a subpar salary (.NET developers = cheap).

I've been there, done that. Trust me, it's not something you want to end up in.

Anonymous said...

Indie game developers raise $1 million dollars (Linux users donating the most) via Humble Gaming Pack. As promised the developers release games as open source.

Dr Loser said...

@May 11, 2010 11:20 AM

The fact is you are taking an attitude towards the unemployed that is very similar to those ignorant assholes from storm front.

You are better than that. Hell even Dr. Loser is better than that.


No, I'm not, you offensive little prick. Haven't you read a single word I've written? Anyone who isn't a neo-nazi and who hasn't got a job should be dropped down the nearest ice-hole for the good of the Volk.

Dear me, reading comprehension these days.

@May 11, 2010 1:46 PM

You keep up with your "Visual Studio" bullshit, and all you will end up with is a shitty job ... I've been there, done that. Trust me, it's not something you want to end up in.

And then I discovered MiracleKernel(TM). Zits vanish! Even the girl at the vending machine vanishes! No need for application, because even applications vanish!

MiracleKernel(TM) is your friend, when all your friends have deserted you. MiracleKernel(TM) will make you desirable and attractive. MiracleKernel(TM) comes in fifty seven varieties. And here's the best part! Every single variety of MiracleKernel(TM) tastes just like kiddies like it to taste!

MiracleKernel(TM) is good for the environment. MiracleKernel(TM) will clean your fridge and discover the Higgs Boson ... with no effort from you!

Other operating systems do not do this. The world is full of "me too" kernels like Windows, OSX, and BSD.

Do not be fooled! Only MiracleKernel(TM) comes with a Cast Iron Guarantee! (Stone Age option also available while stocks last.)

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Anonymous said...

Linux is the MiracleKernel(tm) of Silicon Valley alright.

Anonymous said...

Look, world - I have finally fixed that damned broken ABI in Ubuntu, kind of.

No, I removed a feature:

The feature of having to upgrade from a stable distribution to one with a buggy kernel and Xorg, just to run the latest user-mode software.

But, but... I can now run Synaptic with chroot! Problem solved, right?

Which brings up another feature I removed:

The need to UseEsotericWorkarounds™ to operate and install software inside a chroot.

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It's fun watching freetards using dumpster dive computers as being "eco friendly". Until you realize it takes it uses oodles of electricity MORE than a dedicated router PCB box.

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Declination said...

Is there a reason all this chroot+stable base nonesense couldn't have just been solved by shipping a launch wrapper that sets LD_PATH or whatever the exact variable is along with the exact version of libraries the app depends on? Seems to me you have fallen into the trap of overthinking just like all thse overwrought frameworks.

Anonymous said...


Seems to me you have fallen into the trap of overthinking just like all thse overwrought frameworks.


Typical Linux shit.

"Fix" a problem by wrapping a complex wrapper around complex wrapper.

Call it a day and let someone else deal with that unmaintainable shit.

(And when someone needs to maintain it, he'll rewrite it, of course.)

Anonymous said...

Is there a reason all this chroot+stable base nonesense couldn't have just been solved by shipping a launch wrapper that sets LD_PATH or whatever the exact variable is along with the exact version of libraries the app depends on? Seems to me you have fallen into the trap of overthinking just like all thse overwrought frameworks.

What you describe is the basis for portable binaries that bundle all the dependency libraries to be dynamically linked.

I went the chroot route because its *much* easier for one person to do that than re-compile an entire repository collection of bleeding-edge packages (this is necessary to target the older glibc symbol versions used by the older glibc in the stable base distribution) and bundling all their dependencies into one archive.

The other reason is obvious: its a total waste of time to duplicate whats already in the repository.

Anonymous said...

Is there a reason all this chroot+stable base nonesense couldn't have just been solved by shipping a launch wrapper that sets LD_PATH or whatever the exact variable is along with the exact version of libraries the app depends on? Seems to me you have fallen into the trap of overthinking just like all thse overwrought frameworks.

What you describe is the basis for portable binaries that bundle all the dependency libraries to be dynamically linked.

I went the chroot route because its *much* easier for one person to do that than re-compile an entire repository collection of 30,000 bleeding-edge packages (this step is necessary in order to target the older glibc symbol versions used by the older glibc in the stable base distribution) and bundling all their dependencies into one archive.

The other reason is obvious: its a total waste of time trying to duplicate whats already available in the repository.

TM Repository said...

TM Repository man probably makes $10.50/hr in his shitty "studio" job getting people coffee. That is if he is even employed.

Right, I work 90% of the time from home...getting people coffee?

If that's the case, where did I acquire the skills to make the TM Repository? Granted, it isn't the most technically advanced site on the internet. However, the last time I checked, you don't pick up HTML, CSS (with all its quirks), Python, Django, Javascript, JQuery and AJAX knowledge serving latt├ęs.

Go ahead and claim I'm just some hobbyist if it makes you feel better, but the truth is, when challenged, I put up. I've achieved more, and contributed more, to open source than you ever have. You're just another fucking user who wants to mooch a free lunch.

TM Repository said...

You won't get rich from learning Microsoft technologies. You'll just make Bill Gates richer. All recent successful technology companies (Twitter, Digg, Facebook, Google, etc.) built their company on top of FOSS software, ironically.

I'd like to know how that's ironic? Seems like a good idea to me. You have an experimental idea, build it on top of some good tools. The fact that they're FOSS is irrelevant.

Convenient how you didn't mention YouTube which was built in the proprietary Flash player. Or how all the top internet games are built in Flash, including ones on Facebook.

These people don't care about FOSS, they care about getting the job done with the tools they have available. You don't care about FOSS either, you just care about AnythingButMicrosoft(TM).

By the way, try not to pay any attention to the two major contributions that Microsoft is making to JQuery.

Templating

Data Linking

Anonymous said...

Because .Net is good only to build LoB applications and work as a code monkey. Right. Let's just forget about Paint.Net for a moment.

No, I'm not building LoB applications. The main company's goal is training in privacy and safety (according to the law) for SMBs. We also have two active products that need maintenance and updates, and one is receiving a complete overhaul to comply with new privacy regulations recently disclosed by the authority. As a side job I'm also doing network maintenance and administration for some small clients. Thank god I pushed the use of Windows Server 2008 R2 and Windows 7, that way I need to go there and mostly fix the "how do you do it in Word" problems rather than "I can't access the network/my sound broke/my files are gone".

It works, and they pay always on time (and believe me, it's not common these days).

JoeMonco said...

this is necessary to target the older glibc symbol versions used by the older glibc in the stable base distribution

I am beginning to get sick of this debate and your utter failure to see why your "solution" is not going to work in the long run, so let me just give my conclusion here in four simple points for you, in layman's terms:

1) Your duct-tape-and-glue chroot thing is nothing but an ugly band-aid. It is a workaround that needs not be done in the first place, and it is tedious at best for individual users to maintain.

2) You have proven yourselves lacking the needed knowledge to understand the problem itself - let alone solving it. In order to address the issue at hand, you need to understand first and foremost the way software development is actually done. The real and only solution here, in a nutshell, is a complete overhaul in the userland ABI (and that needs go far and beyond what LSB has to offer), but you, on the other hand, seem to be either in denial of the obvious or just know jack squat about what you are doing. This brings us to the third point.

3) You are, at the moment, contributing nothing but more unmanageable mess to the Linux scene. The problem that you are attempting to address is supposed to be solved by the engineers in the high-level OS design, not the users in the uncharted territory of esoteric workarounds. Hell, even shipping the libraries along with those so-called "bleeding edge" applications would solve the problem quite nicely, but, instead, you seem to just want to bring all the trouble upon yourself rather than admit that FOSS developers are just a sloppy bunch of dillholes.

4) You have completely misunderstood the purpose of the repository in Linux. Really, how often do you see an application coming in different packages for the various versions of Windows NT (XP, 2003, Vista, etc.), or the various releases of OSX? Let's face it - the only reason individual distributions have their own repositories is that they, among themselves, can't even establish a single useful standard for both software development and deployment. With what you are attempting to achieve here, Linux will still be, at the end of the day, nothing more than a steaming pile of code rot that no one wants to use on a desktop or for running more than just simple services over a network. Seriously, snap out of it, already.

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Anonymous said...

I am beginning to get sick of this debate and your utter failure to see why your "solution" is not going to work in the long run, so let me just give my conclusion here in four simple points for you, in layman's terms:

1) Your duct-tape-and-glue chroot thing is nothing but an ugly band-aid. It is a workaround that needs not be done in the first place, and it is tedious at best for individual users to maintain.


A workaround that solves the problem that I'm addressing, which is to have easy access to the newest apps on stable enterprise distributions. This is in contrast to using an enterprise distribution but being limited to outdated applications. It's a far more elegant solution than requiring users to compile their own software if they want the newest.

2) You have proven yourselves lacking the needed knowledge to understand the problem itself - let alone solving it. In order to address the issue at hand, you need to understand first and foremost the way software development is actually done. The real and only solution here, in a nutshell, is a complete overhaul in the userland ABI (and that needs go far and beyond what LSB has to offer), but you, on the other hand, seem to be either in denial of the obvious or just know jack squat about what you are doing. This brings us to the third point.

I know what the overall problems are. You fail to understand the specific problem I'm addressing.

3) You are, at the moment, contributing nothing but more unmanageable mess to the Linux scene. The problem that you are attempting to address is supposed to be solved by the engineers in the high-level OS design, not the users in the uncharted territory of esoteric workarounds. Hell, even shipping the libraries along with those so-called "bleeding edge" applications would solve the problem quite nicely, but, instead, you seem to just want to bring all the trouble upon yourself rather than admit that FOSS developers are just a sloppy bunch of dillholes.

PC-BSD mostly solves the problem with their PBI system, mainly by packaging all the dependencies with the packages. Unfortunately, PC-BSD suffers from other, unrelated problems.

I would solve it this way too, except that I don't have the man power to support 30,000 packages in this self-contained manner.

4) You have completely misunderstood the purpose of the repository in Linux. Really, how often do you see an application coming in different packages for the various versions of Windows NT (XP, 2003, Vista, etc.), or the various releases of OSX? Let's face it - the only reason individual distributions have their own repositories is that they, among themselves, can't even establish a single useful standard for both software development and deployment. With what you are attempting to achieve here, Linux will still be, at the end of the day, nothing more than a steaming pile of code rot that no one wants to use on a desktop or for running more than just simple services over a network. Seriously, snap out of it, already.

You're half right. the repository model would still manifest itself either way; its just too convenient to have applications centralized. The difference would be if distributions were standardized and binaries were compiled to be portable (which they can be), repositories can theoretically be shared across unlike distributions.

In other words a great deal of package duplication can be eliminated if there were just a few standard repositories that hosted all FOSS applications versus each distribution having repositories tailored just for them.

Anonymous said...

Go ahead and claim I'm just some hobbyist if it makes you feel better, but the truth is, when challenged, I put up. I've achieved more, and contributed more, to open source than you ever have. You're just another fucking user who wants to mooch a free lunch.

Where is your open source contributions TM Repository man? Prove it.

Anonymous said...

In other words a great deal of package duplication can be eliminated if there were just a few standard repositories that hosted all FOSS applications versus each distribution having repositories tailored just for them.

That would be brilliant actually. But unfortunately we'd have to figure out how to get Red Hat, Novell and Canonical to work together. If this ever happens we should also come up with a new package format. Something like RPM/DEB but with more flexibility.

JoeMonco said...

A workaround that solves the problem that I'm addressing, which is to have easy access to the newest apps on stable enterprise distributions.

WorksForMe(TM)

This is in contrast to using an enterprise distribution but being limited to outdated applications.

Such as?

It's a far more elegant solution than requiring users to compile their own software if they want the newest.

But still far clumsier than modifying the linker search paths, or simply having a stable ABI to begin with.

I know what the overall problems are. You fail to understand the specific problem I'm addressing.

Which is a problem that you have never properly identified.

PC-BSD mostly solves the problem with their PBI system, mainly by packaging all the dependencies with the packages. Unfortunately, PC-BSD suffers from other, unrelated problems.

How is this supposed to be even remotely relevant to Linux, bud? Besides, haven't you already argued with me before that some dependencies are never supposed to be packaged with the applications at all (like glibc)? ShiftTheGoalPost(TM) much?

You're half right. the repository model would still manifest itself either way

I find this anecdotal remark particularly hilarious - not that the rest of your comment isn't, too - but because of the facts:

1) that popular desktop operating systems such as Windows and OS X do not even have any repository mechanisms to begin with (saving system updating services, which are supposed to be there to patch up the OS itself and nothing eles, or maybe optional app stores, which are, of course, supposed to be part of a business model rather than some lousy band-aids for a broken ABI), and

2) that software resembling Unix-like centralized software respositories have long been tried and failed in commercial platforms - or at least in Windows as Linux Victim points out here.

its just too convenient to have applications centralized

This is funny because, like you have just said - and I quote - "I don't have the man power to support 30,000 packages in [a PC-BSD like] self-contained manner." Seriously, are you on drugs?

Anonymous said...

Modern operating systems (ie ones not designed in 80s before the Internet really was mainstream) use the repository model. See Android, WebOS, iPhoneOS for examples. The repository model is more secure as takes away the requirement for the end user to manage his/her own software. It is not something worth getting rid of. I'll also remind you that Microsoft is working on their own package manager and software repository as we speak.

Dr Loser said...

@May 12, 2010 7:04 AM

If this ever happens we should also come up with a new package format. Something like RPM/DEB but with more flexibility.

What a particularly stupid idea. The problem isn't "flexibility" -- have you looked at the huge list of command-line flags used by RPM recently? The damn things are so flexible that they frequently combine with eachother to produce ghastly and unpredictable mutations.

Nor is the problem the package format. When all's said and done, you're just jamming a bunch of binaries together with an index and various bits of metadata. No extra MagicPixieDust(TM) required.

Nor is a unified approach to packaging (Canonical, Red Hat, Novell, et al) remotely useful. At the end of the day, said package will have to be deployed on three or more desktops with randomly different linkages and requirements. The disease goes far deeper than mere packaging.

And in any case, the real problem is the underlying delivery system. Linux is prone to a combinatorial explosion of differently versioned shared object libraries, and, I'm sorry, all this libxxx.so.7 cack won't cut it. Until the loons come up with something vaguely resembling Windows' side-by-side (or the Mac's equivalent, or even BSD-style packaging), we'll be hearing more and more of nitwit one-man projects involving schroot.

Face it, this stuff is diseased at the stem.

Dr Loser said...

@May 12, 2010 7:28 AM

The repository model is more secure as takes away the requirement for the end user to manage his/her own software.

(a) That has nothing to do with security (unless bricking your computer is considered "secure").
(b) Download, run, tick irritating EULA box, voila. If this level of software management makes your head hurt, then you probably need to find a less challenging occupation.

I'll also remind you that Microsoft is working on their own package manager and software repository as we speak.

You don't provide a link, so allow me. Sounds asinine to me. Obviously, you're thinking of some entirely different and yet unspecifiable Microsoft initiative.

Anonymous said...

But still far clumsier than modifying the linker search paths, or simply having a stable ABI to begin with.

Perhaps but these aren't issues that I can be addressed so easily by one person. Anyway, schroot is quite elegant compared to simply using chroot.

How is this supposed to be even remotely relevant to Linux, bud? Besides, haven't you already argued with me before that some dependencies are never supposed to be packaged with the applications at all (like glibc)? ShiftTheGoalPost(TM) much?

They aren't. PC-BSD doesn't bundle libc and other libraries that are already part of the base installation (like QT and GTK+) in their PBIs.

In addition, even though the packages are self-contained they are still installed via a package manager and hosted in a central location: pbiDIR.

2) that software resembling Unix-like centralized software repositories have long been tried and failed in commercial platforms - or at least in Windows as Linux Victim points out here.

The repository model doesn't with with commercial applications because, for example, commercial EULA's typically prohibit software distribution in this manner.

On the other hand... one employee at Microsoft is working to bring the repository model to FOSS applications distributed on Windows.

http://tmrepository.com/fudtracker/package-management-system-for-windows/

This is funny because, like you have just said - and I quote - "I don't have the man power to support 30,000 packages in [a PC-BSD like] self-contained manner." Seriously, are you on drugs?

Applications that have most of their dependencies bundled can still be hosted and downloaded from a central repository server. Applications still have to be hosted somewhere!

Dr Loser said...

@May 12, 2010 8:25 AM

As far as I can make out, you're incompetent at linking (cf fudtracker); you admit that you're not particularly proficient in C; you don't really understand package management (who does? Certainly not me); you're on your own; you have very limited time for this project (and good luck with the torrent stuff, btw); and you don't even understand that the "Bleeding Edge" is not a single "Bleeding Edge," but "Bleeding Omnipresent."

Let me summarise.

There is no value in your proposition.

Even if there were, nobody would listen.

Even if they listened, they wouldn't contribute.

Even if they contributed, you'd end up with a fractured repository full of broken toys, none of which talk to each other.

Even if you could solve the repository problem, you'd still end up with an infinite number of monkey schroots.

Even if you could solve the multiple schroot problem, you'd still be stuck with bleeding edge problems.

It's all very well to claim that schroot is magic, because you can still mount the original /home directory (etc). Wonderful. Now what happens when your bleeding edge apps corrupt and/or destroy files, directories, or even the entire partition?

I mean, who the hell would think this is a remotely sane idea?

JoeMonco said...

Perhaps but these aren't issues that I can be addressed so easily by one person. Anyway, schroot is quite elegant compared to simply using chroot.

Using schroot instead of chroot makes no difference at the end of the day - it's just the same WorksForMe(TM) nonsense to everyone else.

They aren't. PC-BSD doesn't bundle libc and other libraries that are already part of the base installation (like QT and GTK+) in their PBIs.

And you reckon this will solve the ABI breakage issues because...?

In addition, even though the packages are self-contained they are still installed via a package manager and hosted in a central location: pbiDIR.

So... what?

On the other hand... one employee at Microsoft is working to bring the repository model to FOSS applications distributed on Windows.

Yep, I am pretty sure people are going to pass out over such exciting news. Besides, don't you think it's a bit stupid in your part to quote a comment that describes how stupid the repository idea really is?

Applications that have most of their dependencies bundled can still be hosted and downloaded from a central repository server.

But why do we need to spend man-power on a central repository server or crap like Synaptic when we can simply let developers distribute their applications their own way?

TM Repository said...

Where is your open source contributions TM Repository man? Prove it.

I can't prove my dollar contributions to Django or JQuery but I've donated to both projects.

I could post my commit logs for some of the projects started or I've contributed to, but thanks to the whois wacko here and on Piestar, that's not going to happen. I'd like to keep my personal email accounts (which are attached to the changelogs) from being bombed.

Regardless, I built the TM Repository with FOSS and proprietary tools, what have you done with those FOSS besides spin the cube?

TM Repository said...

The repository model is more secure as takes away the requirement for the end user to manage his/her own software. It is not something worth getting rid of.

The repository model is just a walled garden. That's why everyone else calls it an App Store. Funny how the FOSS advocates scream about freedom and choice yet are unable to install the latest firefox from the repos without updating their entire OS.

Anonymous said...

Just want to say that JoeMonco is one of my new favorites here. You're up there with Dr. Loser and TM Repository guy. Cheers!

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TM Repository said...

Just want to say that JoeMonco is one of my new favorites here. You're up there with Dr. Loser and TM Repository guy. Cheers!

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Anonymous said...

Let me summarise.

There is no value in your proposition.

Even if there were, nobody would listen.

Even if they listened, they wouldn't contribute.

Even if they contributed, you'd end up with a fractured repository full of broken toys, none of which talk to each other.

Even if you could solve the repository problem, you'd still end up with an infinite number of monkey schroots.


Whenever an application from within the chroot is launched via the schroot command, a new temperary schroot session directory is created and inside are mount points that are binded to things like /sys, /dev/snd, /proc, /tmp, etc. Once an application exits those mount points are automatically unmounted and the session files are deleted.

You're referring to the issue where schroot can fail to automatically unmount because an app inside the chroot terminated improperly--segmentation fault. This has no adverse affect on the system except for dangling mount points.

However, I fixed this issue anyway.

I solved it by disabling the schroot start-up script:

chmod a-x /etc/init.d/schroot

This prevents schroot from re-mounting all those "monkey schroot" mount points every-time the system is restarted.

In addition, I added an entry into /etc/rc.local that removes all the junk session files and mount point directories that aren't removed, if an application is abruptly terminated:

rm -rf /var/lib/schroot/mount/* /var/lib/schroot/session/*

Even if you could solve the multiple schroot problem, you'd still be stuck with bleeding edge problems.

It's all very well to claim that schroot is magic, because you can still mount the original /home directory (etc). Wonderful. Now what happens when your bleeding edge apps corrupt and/or destroy files, directories, or even the entire partition?


Well any application-level bugs that appear in Ubuntu 10.04 LTS will manifest itself inside a chroot of that OS. This is not the same thing as upgrading the distro and experiencing no sound, wireless/ethernet, or video as a result. The running kernel and x-server don't change when you use a chroot; its still 8.04 LTS's kernel and X11 being used, for example.

By bleeding-edge I'm referring to accessing Ubuntu 10.04 LTS applications ran inside 8.04 LTS.

If 10.04's applications can cause data loss, despite the fact that the chroot cannot access any base directories besides "home" (this can easily be disabled from mount binding) then those bugs would also appear in a fully installed copy of Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, without any chroot environments.

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TM Repository said...

Remember when you upgraded Windows or OSX and Firefox didn't work? Oh, right, that never happened.

The chroot stuff is novel, certainly, but it is a band-aid to a much larger problem. Your solution doesn't solve Linux's problems so much as it points out its greatest flaws.

Anonymous said...

Steam for Linux is now official. Let's see how fast Valve recognizes that freetards don't have money for games!

Where's IntegralsGuy(TM) now?

TM Repository said...

Steam for Linux is now official. Let's see how fast Valve recognizes that freetards don't have money for games!

Enjoy Gish and...uh...all those other great titles from 2004 (or earlier).

Too bad the freetards can't see that Steam is just another walled garden to make money. Instead they believe this is a sign that Linux is somehow now a mainstream gaming platform.

Anonymous said...

Too bad Valve can't see the light either. Freetards rallied to Macs before, and now Jobs is ebil just like Ballmer.

Valve would probably be recognized for some time as the hero of Linux desktop, and then ditched as many others before. As you pointed out they just want to make some money. Freetards are the worst kind of clients.

I still think the Linux client is a byproduct of the OSX client. Maybe they had to rewrite like 1% of the client (or simply none at all). In that case it's profitable as with the work put into one platform you can actually get money from two different platforms. Hopefully.

Anonymous said...

OSNews says it's official because Phoroenix claims it's official. An actual announcement is nowhere to be found.

That's freetard journalism at play again.

Anonymous said...

Lots of Open Office fans here


Look at the comments.

Anonymous said...

Quote from Open Office whining thread:


Why not go the whole way and dump Microsoft Office for Open Office and Windows for Linux. All far superior and free.

The other up side is that all upgrades are free and there are millions of users out there communicating with each other. Great stuff. I gave up with Windows years ago.

The council in Munich swapped to Open Office for its 15 thousand computers


Classic!

Free software will eventually win all commodity markets

Yea, in 5 years, right?

Anonymous said...

Maybe the reason people aren't buying the Office 2010 upgrade is that they are upgrading to Open Office 3. For 99% of the small, medium, and even large business, OO3 provides more than enough capabilities. It is also nearly 100% compatible with MS Office products, and adheres to the Open Document standard for interchangeability. Best feature of all is the price - $0.00 for either a new install or upgrade.

Yeah, right. Recently I migrated one of my custmers (under his directions) to OpenOffice for all the clients that didn't need the full Office features. That was one of the dumbest decisions ever made. Not only the very latest OOo version (3.2.something) has poor support for Office 2000/2003 formats, but it lacks completely something like Access (Base is a joke). It constantly had layout problems, as in documents needed to be tweaked constantly just to show right in print. Remember that these guys are absolutely non tech savvy, they are specialized in private security, not in computers.

Anyway, they wanted to try it because it was free. Now they are willing to pay the FULL license for every single pc to get a working copy of Office. Fortunately, I provided them with a huge discount thanks to Volume Licensing.

Some of these freetards are truly hopeless. They are too much into their fantasy world to even barely get a glimpse of reality.

JoeMonco said...

Whenever an application from within the chroot is launched via the schroot command, a new temperary schroot session directory is created and inside are mount points that are binded to things like /sys, /dev/snd, /proc, /tmp, etc. Once an application exits those mount points are automatically unmounted and the session files are deleted.

Sounds elegant to me. Like I said, it's just like running a Solaris Zone for each and every application but without the benefits of using such. Let's face it - you want to think you are making history with your duct tape ang glue, but the reality, on the other hand, simply tells us that you are just trying to reinvent the wheel once again.

Well, I honestly have no idea has inhibited you from thinking critically, but for the sake of emphasis, let me just repeat Dr. Loser's conclusion once again in order that, hopefully, people here will learn from your example and avoid making the same mistakes:

1) There is no value in your proposition.

2) Even if there were, nobody would listen.

3) Even if they listened, they wouldn't contribute.

4) Even if they contributed, you'd end up with a fractured repository full of broken toys, none of which talk to each other.

5) Even if you could solve the repository problem, you'd still end up with an infinite number of monkey schroots.

6) Even if you could solve the multiple schroot problem, you'd still be stuck with bleeding edge problems.

You see - I am not saying all this here for your sake since you are obviously a hopeless case that simply cannot be redeemed with mere words. I am saying it because, like you, there are plenty of people out there with undue optimism thinking that they have got a solution for a problem despite utterly failing to see the elephant in the room. You are the modern-day Sisyphus, who has tasked himself with the fruitless pursuit of endlessly rolling a stone uphill. You have the ability to comprehend part of the situation at hand, but nevertheless proves yourself incapable of grasping the whole picture. The irony of fooling oneself with apparent cleverness is what makes you, Linux and the FOSS movement deserving of contempt, and there is nothing you can do to change this reality.

captcha: payme - the state of mind, particularly in regards to undue respect from others, within each FOSS advocate.

Anonymous said...

Sounds elegant to me. Like I said, it's just like running a Solaris Zone for each and every application but without the benefits of using such. Let's face it - you want to think you are making history with your duct tape ang glue, but the reality, on the other hand, simply tells us that you are just trying to reinvent the wheel once again.

I'm not trying to do anything except extend the useful life of LTS distros for desktop users.

Well, I honestly have no idea has inhibited you from thinking critically, but for the sake of emphasis, let me just repeat Dr. Loser's conclusion once again in order that, hopefully, people here will learn from your example and avoid making the same mistakes:

1) There is no value in your proposition.

2) Even if there were, nobody would listen.

3) Even if they listened, they wouldn't contribute.

4) Even if they contributed, you'd end up with a fractured repository full of broken toys, none of which talk to each other.

5) Even if you could solve the repository problem, you'd still end up with an infinite number of monkey schroots.

6) Even if you could solve the multiple schroot problem, you'd still be stuck with bleeding edge problems.


Point 1 is false. There is clearly value in the ability to effortlessly run the latest applications without having to resort to a base operating system upgrade that can jeopardize currently functioning hardware and drivers.

Points 2 through 4 were just added and have no relevance at all.

Point 5 was an issue that I've already addressed and point 6 is pretty much nonsense. 10.04 LTS may have bugs but it's user-mode applications aren't so broken that they may cause data corruption in the home directory and what not. Its a totally ridiculous assertion IMO.

Still, a chroot is a jail and if there was any concern for very badly-behaving apps, its easy to unbind the user's official home directory from the chroot; thus there would be total isolation from the base system.

You see - I am not saying all this here for your sake since you are obviously a hopeless case that simply cannot be redeemed with mere words. I am saying it because, like you, there are plenty of people out there with undue optimism thinking that they have got a solution for a problem despite utterly failing to see the elephant in the room. You are the modern-day Sisyphus, who has tasked himself with the fruitless pursuit of endlessly rolling a stone uphill. You have the ability to comprehend part of the situation at hand, but nevertheless proves yourself incapable of grasping the whole picture. The irony of fooling oneself with apparent cleverness is what makes you, Linux and the FOSS movement deserving of contempt, and there is nothing you can do to change this reality.

captcha: payme - the state of mind, particularly in regards to undue respect from others, within each FOSS advocate.


Look, I understand what the problems are:

The kernel has a constantly changing driver interface; Xorg changes their ABI frequently, which breaks proprietary drivers; a mess of sound servers and audio APIs exist; there's a lack of unification across package management systems: deb versus rpm, pacman, portage, conary, upkg, so on. The insistence to share libraries system wide that prevents users from upgrading individual apps.

I cannot solve all these problems. Developers are responsible for this.

What I can do is provide a workaround for the ugliest problem, which has required users to upgrade from a currently working base installation to a broken release just to use the newest point release software.

Simply sticking with Ubuntu LTS or some other distributions like CentOS, RHEL or SLED ensures a stable base for currently functioning drivers. The ABIs in these distributions are stable and are supported for years. Hell, RHEL has used kernel 2.6.18's ABI since 2007. The same situation exists with it's Xorg server v1.1.

Anonymous said...

Enjoy Gish and...uh...all those other great titles from 2004 (or earlier).

Too bad the freetards can't see that Steam is just another walled garden to make money. Instead they believe this is a sign that Linux is somehow now a mainstream gaming platform.


We don't care if Valve's intention is to make money.

Many of us freetards buy games off steam but are forced to play them on Windows. Well, I'm not forced. I often use my licensed copy of Crossover Games to play many steam games.

Anyway, I recently bought Fallout 3 GOTY. Great game!

Anyway, I recently bought Fallout 3 GOTY. Great game and I love some of the user-contributed mods! For example, with the animated prostitution mod, I can hire hookers or have them work for me then screw them with all the visual details you expect from a game like 3D Sex Villa.

Dr Loser said...

@May 13, 2010 7:27 AM

Looks like we can't stop you wasting valuable spare time on this, which is fine. Spare time is Freedom. With that in mind, I'll burn some of my freedom in response:

Point 1 is false. There is clearly value in the ability to effortlessly run the latest applications without having to resort to a base operating system upgrade that can jeopardize currently functioning hardware and drivers.

Use VirtualBox. Use VMWare. Use dual boot. Do not use duct tape.

Your solution is very far from "effortless." JoeMonco has explained this in painstaking detail. Let me add one more thing. All this temporary mount/session cleanup on (at the most fine-grained) the level of a single application might sound triff, but it totally fails as an operating environment. I'm in the habit of writing cross-session information out to /var/tmp, or some similar persistent directory. I assume that quite a lot of linux applications do something similar. Your "solution" trashes this mechanism, to no great advantage.

Even ignoring that, the idea that you lose all logs, audit trails, etc etc, simply by exiting an application/schroot appals me.

Points 2 through 4 were just added and have no relevance at all.

Well, they're kind of dependent upon point 1. Show me where point 1 is wrong.

Point 5 was an issue that I've already addressed

No, you haven't.

and point 6 is pretty much nonsense. 10.04 LTS may have bugs but it's user-mode applications aren't so broken that they may cause data corruption in the home directory and what not.

Well, it was exaggerated for effect. Simply insisting on an individual DistroX(TM), which no doubt has staunched the bleeding by now (EXT4, etc) and has more or less joined the ranks of the limping wounded, doesn't alter the general point.

OK, let's take a specific problem. Let's narrow it down to, say, GiMP or OOo. Let's assume you spend a couple of hours, or a day, or a week, doing heavyweight work on all those important docs under /home (which, you'll remember, you've mounted under schroot for that precise purpose).

What's to guarantee that the output from U 10.04 is readable by the stable packages under Centos 5? Not much. I therefore refer you to my point 1.

Still, a chroot is a jail and if there was any concern for very badly-behaving apps, its easy to unbind the user's official home directory from the chroot; thus there would be total isolation from the base system.

(1) Hannibal Lecter escapes
(2) ???
(3) Bolt all stable doors, now.

Wouldn't it be easier to aim for total isolation in the first place? Otherwise known as virtualisation?

Look, I understand what the problems are ... I cannot solve all these problems. Developers are responsible for this.

Truth be told, you're not solving any of them. Over eighteen years, the Linux ecosystem has had many thousands of fine and worthwhile and generally brilliant architects, developers, testers, documenters, and packagers address their best efforts towards solving the problems you name.

Unaccountably, they have so far overlooked the MagicPixieDust(TM) of schroot.

What I can do is provide a workaround for the ugliest problem, which has required users to upgrade from a currently working base installation to a broken release just to use the newest point release software.

It's a matter of opinion, really. My opinion is that the entire upstream/downstream/multiple-choice/anarcho-syndicalist model is irretrievably broken. Right now, point release software is pretty low on the list of software engineering priorities.

Tux Sux said...

It constantly had layout problems, as in documents needed to be tweaked constantly just to show right in print.

Speaking of elephants in the room, this is one advocates always gloss over. If they mention compatibility issues at all they play it off as if it's no big deal, but the reality is that if X employee burns a full workday struggling with compatibility issues over a five year period then you've completely obviated the so-called "savings". The time budget, by the way, would be eight minutes per month, which is more of what I'd expect per day. Even if your office fully standardizes around OpenOffice, unless you operate in a vacuum you'll need to deal with heavily formatted documents from other offices.

And we haven't even gotten into Visual Basic support. Sure, "you" may not use it, but someone in the company has built something useful based on it. And it's not a simple matter of "give just him VB access" because he won't be able to share his work unless the recipients can understand VB as well. Just look at the shit storm re: Office 2008. Microsoft incorrectly assumed that VB wasn't really used in their Mac edition. They sure found out when their blogs got slammed with complaints and review sites everywhere trashed the product with one star reviews. The response was so big that Microsoft's actually "doing it right" and re-merging their Office products, finally, after a decade of dicking around. They're listening to customers! Imagine that!

it lacks completely something like Access (Base is a joke)

They'll just say Access sucks anyway and that Base is just for show and that you should be using a "real" database.

I love having this argument with techies from medium sized and larger companies because they universally hate Access (and Excel). "Just build a *real* DB and get your report manager to do some RPG or Crystal magic!" Whatever you say guys, I'm really sure in companies with 15-25 employees, report managers and database designers will be among them. Even the fly-by-night hourly application support people use Access, not because they're "too stupid to just learn SQL" but because there's a greater opportunity to deploy on Access than to convince small offices that they need to spend thousands setting up a "real" server.

Now they are willing to pay the FULL license for every single pc to get a working copy of Office.

Break down the amortization over 3-5 years and pretty much everyone will go for it. Even if there were "savings" to be had somehow, this is an area where opportunity cost comes into play because you're almost certainly hemorrhaging more cash somewhere else.

TM Repository said...

Many of us freetards buy games off steam but are forced to play them on Windows.

You can't be a freetard if you pay for software.

Anonymous said...

Use VirtualBox. Use VMWare. Use dual boot. Do not use duct tape.

Except an actual VM has overhead.

Your solution is very far from "effortless." JoeMonco has explained this in painstaking detail. Let me add one more thing. All this temporary mount/session cleanup on (at the most fine-grained) the level of a single application might sound triff, but it totally fails as an operating environment. I'm in the habit of writing cross-session information out to /var/tmp, or some similar persistent directory. I assume that quite a lot of linux applications do something similar. Your "solution" trashes this mechanism, to no great advantage.

Even ignoring that, the idea that you lose all logs, audit trails, etc etc, simply by exiting an application/schroot appals me.


That doesn't happen. Directories like /tmp are binded to say /var/lib/schroot/mount/lucid_amd64-b82af400-53c7-4349-9d94-bdac58896408/tmp

Anything written into those directories remains after the application is terminated.

All closing the application does is unmount, for example, /var/lib/schroot/mount/lucid_amd64-b82af400-53c7-4349-9d94-bdac58896408/tmp and thus removes the binding to /tmp.

At that point /var/lib/schroot/mount/lucid_amd64-b82af400-53c7-4349-9d94-bdac58896408/tmp becomes an empty directory but any data written into it will still be in /tmp.

The thing I added into rc.local just deletes empty sub-directories in /var/lib/schroot. These aren't mounted after reboot (thus are empty) because the schroot init stript isn't ran.


Well, they're kind of dependent upon point 1. Show me where point 1 is wrong.

See above.

No, you haven't.

Yes, I have.

Well, it was exaggerated for effect. Simply insisting on an individual DistroX(TM), which no doubt has staunched the bleeding by now (EXT4, etc) and has more or less joined the ranks of the limping wounded, doesn't alter the general point.

OK, let's take a specific problem. Let's narrow it down to, say, GiMP or OOo. Let's assume you spend a couple of hours, or a day, or a week, doing heavyweight work on all those important docs under /home (which, you'll remember, you've mounted under schroot for that precise purpose).

What's to guarantee that the output from U 10.04 is readable by the stable packages under Centos 5? Not much. I therefore refer you to my point 1.


There's no guarantee that an older version of software will be able to read the file format created by a newer version but your two examples are flawed because you can save your documents or images in a file type supported by both.

Still this is ONLY assuming you have two different versions of the same application installed and you decide that instead of clicking the icon to launch the latest version of an app, you decide to launch the outdated one to view your files.

(1) Hannibal Lecter escapes
(2) ???
(3) Bolt all stable doors, now.

Wouldn't it be easier to aim for total isolation in the first place? Otherwise known as virtualisation?


BecauseOfTheOverhead(TM).

It's a matter of opinion, really. My opinion is that the entire upstream/downstream/multiple-choice/anarcho-syndicalist model is irretrievably broken. Right now, point release software is pretty low on the list of software engineering priorities.

Anonymous said...

The right solution is far simpler: just use Windows or OS X. It's what the rest of the world does anyway. Let the freetards suffer Linux and claim superiority on their eternal PenguinDay(TM)

Dr Loser said...

@May 13, 2010 8:41 AM

Use VirtualBox. Use VMWare. Use dual boot. Do not use duct tape.

Except an actual VM has overhead.


On a modern (post 2007, say) machine? Not much. Which do you prefer? Overhead for the computer, or overhead for the poor sod trying to remember the details of what command to issue and which environment to enter and what directories are mounted and where to get the next package from and why you should use which command-line variables and oops head explodes?

It's a tough choice, I'll admit.

Your solution is very far from "effortless."

Even ignoring that, the idea that you lose all logs, audit trails, etc etc, simply by exiting an application/schroot appals me.

That doesn't happen. Directories like /tmp are binded to say /var/lib/schroot/mount/lucid_amd64-b82af400-53c7-4349-9d94-bdac58896408/tmp

Anything written into those directories remains after the application is terminated.

At that point /var/lib/schroot/mount/lucid_amd64-b82af400-53c7-4349-9d94-bdac58896408/tmp becomes an empty directory but any data written into it will still be in /tmp.


Then why bother mounting directories like /tmp to some ludicrously obscure alias?

The thing I added into rc.local just deletes empty sub-directories in /var/lib/schroot. These aren't mounted after reboot (thus are empty) because the schroot init stript isn't ran.

What a brilliant idea. Deleting empty sub-directories is both nutritious and delicious.


Well, they're kind of dependent upon point 1. Show me where point 1 is wrong.

See above.


Well, you've redefined your concept of temporary directory mounts under schroot. This doesn't really qualify as a value proposition, does it?

No, you haven't. (Missing out the fact that this is a reference to my point (5). Well done.

Yes, I have.

This isn't pantomime, you know. It's perfectly permissible to repeat a killer quote, opinion, or reference. Sadly, "Yes, I have" doesn't quite cut it.

There's no guarantee that an older version of software will be able to read the file format created by a newer version but your two examples are flawed because you can save your documents or images in a file type supported by both.

Still this is ONLY assuming you have two different versions of the same application installed and you decide that instead of clicking the icon to launch the latest version of an app, you decide to launch the outdated one to view your files.


And if you don't have two different versions of the same application (actually, it doesn't have to be the same application -- merely an application of the same distro/generation), then exactly what is the point of this bleeding edge experimentation anyway?

Wouldn't it be easier to aim for total isolation in the first place? Otherwise known as virtualisation?

BecauseOfTheOverhead(TM).


Once again, if it comes down to the overhead, then you're on a losing wicket. People generally object to overhead when it gets in the way. People generally object to gigantic obscure workarounds with random and non-intuitive lossage because they get in the way. On the whole, people are going to prefer the overhead.

Let's try again: we'll go for Use Cases. (Hawk, spit.) Imagine a single user for your proposed architecture; let's call him "Tanya."

Let's assume that Tanya is a rabid bleeding-edge Ubuntu fan. Let's assume that Tanya is entirely convinced that, using an LTS as base, the way forward is to schroot each and every Ubuntu brought out in the next two years.

How many Tanyas are there?

How many Tanyas will contribute anything to this project?

How many Tanyas will just say, "Sod this. I'll just stick the bloody thing in VirtualBox?"

This is the sort of project that, on Source Forge, would have a half life measured in weeks. If that.

Anonymous said...

Linux jerks at work on osnews:

Anyway, can you (or someone) tell me more about Orange Box on Linux? My kid has begged for the PC version because it seems to get updates and has weapons he doesn't have. But, I've told him "No" because I don't have Windows at home and I like it that way.


Yawn. Buy a PC with Windows for your Kid, for God's sakes, what a jerk.

That's really cultist behavior.


"No my son, you're not allowed to go to McDonalds with your friends, because it's against the world view of our guru."

Link

TM Repository said...

So apparently the Steam for Linux announcement wasn't an announcement at all. Just Phoronix trying to get more hits.

Chances are good that some freetard saw "linux" in a changelog and didn't bother reading the rest where it said "server" afterwards.

Anonymous said...

Huh? I thought Valve themselves confirmed it.

"We are so grateful that Valve has finally publicly confirmed via the Telegraph (and another pending announcement is likely) that they are bringing Steam and the Source Engine to Linux "

-Phoronix


Have you any proof that this is not the case?

By the way, is someone here with an osnews account?

Anonymous said...

Interesting that steam is suddenly "not evil" anymore.

Looks like DRM is awesome, once it runs on Linux.


Freetards are such hypocrites.

Anonymous said...

Valve hasn't confirmed shit until an announcement is out.

Dr Loser said...

@May 13, 2010 11:20 AM

Freetards are such hypocrites.

Let's be fair. I'm sure Valve are going to release the source code to DRM under the GPL.

I've seen a rubber band, I've seen a peanut stand ...

oops -- copyrighted. Forget I said that.

Anonymous said...

Guys I need some help here, these FO$$ zealots are pissing me off to no end. I tried explaining but it keeps coming to IDontUseItSoYouDontNeedIt.

http://www.techspot.com/news/38940-microsoft-expects-record-adoption-rate-for-office-2010.html#postcomment

GRRRR!

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Anonymous said...

On a modern (post 2007, say) machine? Not much. Which do you prefer? Overhead for the computer, or overhead for the poor sod trying to remember the details of what command to issue and which environment to enter and what directories are mounted and where to get the next package from and why you should use which command-line variables and oops head explodes?

It's a tough choice, I'll admit.


Yet you will argue that running a Windows guest inside a Linux VM is unacceptable because of the overhead. I see we're ShiftingTheGoalPosts(TM).

I know it must be really tough to click an icon on the desktop to launch Synaptic, just to install applications inside the chroot. It also a fruitless effort to, gasp, create desktop shortcuts that launch said apps. Finally, its surely a nightmare for the user to find their documents via chrooted apps. After all the user's home directory is only accessible to God's chosen ones.

Then why bother mounting directories like /tmp to some ludicrously obscure alias?

Schroot does the alias mounting like that so that there aren't any naming clashes when multiple applications are ran.

Anyway, the original point you tried to make about losing all logs, audit trails, etc. is plain false. Nothing is deleted, including whats in /var/tmp. The /var/tmp directory inside the chroot is just a mount binding to /srv/chroot/distro_name/var/tmp. The actual contents of that directory and others still remain after the application is terminated.

What a brilliant idea. Deleting empty sub-directories is both nutritious and delicious.

Yes, it just removes the trail of empty alias directories that weren't automatically removed because said hypothetical chroot application decided to segfault.

This isn't pantomime, you know. It's perfectly permissible to repeat a killer quote, opinion, or reference. Sadly, "Yes, I have" doesn't quite cut it.

I originally assumed you were refering to the issue of schroot failing to unmount because an app crashed. That is the problem I solved.

And if you don't have two different versions of the same application (actually, it doesn't have to be the same application -- merely an application of the same distro/generation), then exactly what is the point of this bleeding edge experimentation anyway?

What exactly is your point? That its possible for an older version of an application to not support a document saved by a newer version of the same application? Sure, I guess its possible but that has nothing to do with schroot and can happen anywhere. E.g.: Trying to open an Office 2007 .docx file in Word 97. Anyway, its much more logical to open a file saved by an older version of an application in the newer version.

The point of the chroot is so that bleeding-edge applications can be used. Sure, its all fine to install the old, stable LTS packages and compare side-by-side but for the most part users will want the latest, unless the latest version of a specific application removes features instead of improving on the existing or implementing new features.

Let's try again: we'll go for Use Cases. (Hawk, spit.) Imagine a single user for your proposed architecture; let's call him "Tanya."

Let's assume that Tanya is a rabid bleeding-edge Ubuntu fan. Let's assume that Tanya is entirely convinced that, using an LTS as base, the way forward is to schroot each and every Ubuntu brought out in the next two years.

How many Tanyas are there?

How many Tanyas will contribute anything to this project?

How many Tanyas will just say, "Sod this. I'll just stick the bloody thing in VirtualBox?"


What are you implying? Tanya is somehow turned off by the ability to easily access the latest applications on a stable LTS base? Maybe Tanya thought that clicking the application launcher on the desktop or program menu was too difficult? I have remorse for Tanya--I really do!

Anonymous said...

You can't be a freetard if you pay for software.

Wait... I thought your definition of a "freetard" is simply some obnoxious Linux evangelist?

Anyway, theres a difference between being a cheapskate and AnythingButMicrosoft(TM).

TM Repository said...

Wait... I thought your definition of a "freetard" is simply some obnoxious Linux evangelist?

Some people interchange freetard and zealot since often they're one and the same. However, a freetard is typically someone who wants everything to be free (as in beer and/or speech). On the other hand, a zealot is the one who believes in the "movement" and subscribes to the culture.

Anyway, theres a difference between being a cheapskate and AnythingButMicrosoft(TM).

Exactly. The former is a freetard in the purest sense, the latter is a zealot.

TM Repository said...

Yet you will argue that running a Windows guest inside a Linux VM is unacceptable because of the overhead. I see we're ShiftingTheGoalPosts(TM).

The argument in that case was one of lateral comparison. Why bother running a VM of Windows in the first place when you can just run Windows natively. Why add the additional layer of Linux only to run all the exact same apps?

The major points brought up against Linux+Wine versus native Windows were:

- introduces overhead, no matter how little it's still worse than native Windows
- introduces compatibility issues, reducing your installable application base
- all worthwhile apps for Linux already have Windows/OSX ports that are easier to install
- linux doesn't bring anything to the table so why use it as a host?

Anonymous said...

The point is - it took ten years to get a semi-stable GUI and now GNU got around to adding stuff I've had for four years?

Dude, I can run almost all your shit using POSIX. The crap that won't, I don't need. And that's IF I wanted to. I don't.

Take that, freetards.

Random Vulgarity Guy said...

Most girls are too embarrassed to say 'no to anal' on a first date.*

*Fact

Anonymous said...

Nonsense, Ubuntu Lost Lemons is just like OSX.

Here is the proof:

http://tinyurl.com/2gygbv3

Anonymous said...

It's fun watching freetards using dumpster dive computers as being "eco friendly". Until you realize it takes it uses oodles of electricity MORE than a dedicated router PCB box.

Well, routers are only more eco friendly if you only look at the power bill. However, if you look at the whole product cycle (production, usage, disposal) then the story is very much different, as for the energy that is required for production alone even a powerhungry old server can run many years before the router becomes more eco friendly.

JoeMonco said...

What exactly is your point? That its possible for an older version of an application to not support a document saved by a newer version of the same application? Sure, I guess its possible but that has nothing to do with schroot and can happen anywhere. E.g.: Trying to open an Office 2007 .docx file in Word 97. Anyway, its much more logical to open a file saved by an older version of an application in the newer version.

No, his argument refers to your inexplicable necessity to run two versions of the same application/whatever in the same installation, one straight from the repository and one from who-knows-where. Besides, I am beginning to get sick of your obfuscated usage of the term "bleeding-edge". You either definite it, or just shut up already. On top of that:

1) Give us a straight answer as to whether your workaround will retain session files upon exit, whether they are required for later use or not.

This is the claim you have made in regards to your "monkey chroot" approach, originally:

"Whenever an application from within the chroot is launched via the schroot command, a new temperary schroot session directory is created and inside are mount points that are binded to things like /sys, /dev/snd, /proc, /tmp, etc. Once an application exits those mount points are automatically unmounted and the session files are deleted." (italics mine)

This is the justification that you have put forth after your exchange with Dr. Loser:

"Anyway, the original point you tried to make about losing all logs, audit trails, etc. is plain false. Nothing is deleted, including whats in /var/tmp. The /var/tmp directory inside the chroot is just a mount binding to /srv/chroot/distro_name/var/tmp. The actual contents of that directory and others still remain after the application is terminated." (italics mine)

To quote Dr. Loser, "you've redefined your concept of temporary directory mounts under schroot. This doesn't really qualify as a value (sic) proposition, does it?"

2) Justify your stance as to why schroot, with its compromised ability to isolate an application from the home directory and all, is a better alternative to a LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrapper script (which has next-to-zero ability to isolate the application from any part of the computer system, saving environment variables) or any existing implementation of virtualization (full, para- or OS-level; all of which provide better file-system isolation than schroot) despite the fact that you are obviously attempting to access the file system from the application inside an untested environment.

Anonymous said...

hey guys, you often talk about buying expensive software such as Sony Vegas at bargain price, by choosing old versions;

could you give me advice on a reasonably priced, LEGAL place?

thank you!

Anonymous said...

Some people on this blog (usually Anonymous Posters, excuse the hypocrisy), are just rediculous.

For general home/office use, running Windows in a VM (Linux Host) is laughable. VMs work very well for software development and testing. I guess it can also work kind of well if you absolutely require running a certain OS for a certain application, but home users should not have that problem (uninstall Linsux and install Windows, duh?) and in the Office those aren't ALL THAT COMMON. Businesses will usually run what works, and if Linux can't run the apps they need it won't work for them.

If I was developing on Linux and wanted to keep my base system clean, I'd run a Linux VM. Same for Windows. If you want to run Linux and develop for Windows, I'd do that as well (lots of Mac users are Windows developers and run it in Boot Camp).

If I was a Linux user and didn't want to use their crappy/bloated F/OSS, I'd simply uninstall Linux and put Windows on the machine.

Apparently that's what most normal people do, if marketshare is any indicator (seeing as how Linux is, and has been, hyped beyond all beliefs as a Windows killer).

Anonymous said...

hey guys, you often talk about buying expensive software such as Sony Vegas at bargain price, by choosing old versions;

Sony Vegas is not expensive. That product is considered somewhat under-priced by many, it gives you so much bang for your buck.

Perhaps you should get a job?

Movie Studio Platinum is more than enough for any non-professional, which you obviously are [if cost is that much of a factor].

Anonymous said...

Played the now free portal, I am now on Level 17.

Nice game, but I almost puked. Never felt so sick after a game. The motion sickness is extreme.

Too bad that I have to stop, seems to be great game.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the reason people aren't buying the Office 2010 upgrade is that they are upgrading to Open Office 3. For 99% of the small, medium, and even large business, OO3 provides more than enough capabilities.


Minus Access and Visio, not to mention the spreadsheet app is a bad joke.

I tend to use SQL for anything big myself, so I get the "use a "real db HURR DURR" crap to a certain extent, but more often than not, the lot of such tasks just aren't worth the extra effort of going with an SQL db - it can be done in a fraction of the time in Access and it doesn't need to scale, why bother?

There's the issue of Word vs Writer, where really any document with decent formatting will take longer to reformat for print, than it did to write up the original document - OOo could works in if you're in a vacuum, but you're going to have to deal with external .doc/.focx files sooner or later, and often.

Visio is a hugely underrated tool as well. OO offers no flowcharting/diagraming application, and DIA is not an adequate substitute, and neither is UML (it's the same issue as SQL v. Access - more often than not, Visio gets the same task done much quicker).

Then there's the telco/call centre application of flowcharts, where certain Avaya platforms take flowcharts as setup instructions, which, despite the price tag on such Avbaya aquipment, results in it amortizing quicker than you can even say "amoritizing".

And there's VB. Yeah yeah, It's not a "real" programming/scripting language, whatever, it doesn't matter. People use it A LOT, I'd say there's more workflow time spend using VB macros on average than there is on the actual use of Office applications. Those who've been paying attention can easily point out that the VB macros (and attempting to port them to OO) is largely what has caused the Munchen debacle to go this far over schedule (so far - it's taken this long to port most but not nearly all of their VB macros from Office on Windows to OO on Windows). I get that freetards hate amd/or mistrust anything that is quick and easy, but that's exactly why VBS is as ubiquitous as it is.

And there's Excel, the Swiss army knife of everything. As I've said before, I don't even use spreadsheets (though a lot of people do, and the VBS support is a major selling point for Excell), but I use Excel on a daily basis (mostly for quickly and easily formatting LARGE datasets to be fed into an SQL db of all things, go fucking figure, eh?) and it's quite common for people in an office setting to use Excel for just about everything.

Anonymous said...

and adheres to the Open Document standard for interchangeability.

That's not much of a selling point, taking in mind the glaring shortcomings of the suite itself, especially given that Office also supports ODF, though this does nothing to help OO with formatting issues from the external Word formatted files flying in from left, right and centre.

I'll be fair though, basic documents with rudimentary formatting open up fine in OO and require little reformatting, but again, most decently formatted docs will take more time to reformat in OO than they did to write in Word. Office amortizes itself over time, OO really doesn't.

Best feature of all is the price - $0.00 for either a new install or upgrade.

You really needto learn what TCA and TCO are. If Office -> OOo was a lateral move you'd have a point, and there'd be nothing to debate, but it isn't. And please, stop pretending that Office is just Word - Even if OOWriter were a lateral move from Word (and it is not, not by a longshot), the glaring defficiencies and outright omissions in the rest of the suite more than make up for the initial purchase cost.

Porting your VB macros to OO alone will easily eclipse any purchase price savings you'd make by switching to OOo.

It's been said a billion times before, you can't compete on price alone - You need to provide equivalent functionality to be able to compete on purchase price in a business setting, otherwise the TCO and TCA will eat you alive.

JoeMonco said...

Nice game, but I almost puked. Never felt so sick after a game. The motion sickness is extreme.

Now you are puking with portal.

Anonymous said...

Movie Studio Platinum is more than enough for any non-professional, which you obviously are [if cost is that much of a factor].

well that looks quite nice, thank you

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